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Morning All
Fork's 2 years old and off to the good folk of TF for a service and possibly upgrade. Anyone had the FAST upgrade or any other fettling done and if so do you like it? I'm 17 st and am advised that the fork factory settings are for the 13st chap - which isn't me and hasn't been since the late 80s.
I like the thought of fettling. I also like the 3 position damping switch as there's a fair bit of road on the usual loops so a bit of a lock out/calming of the fork is a good thing. After the moon on a stick really - rides like a rigid on road and a DH fork off road.
Many thanks
Paul
Tom appears in 5.....4....3.....
2...
Weird...... he doesn't usually take this long to appear.....
1
I've had the full FAST upgrade.
Feels a bit more controlled but for the money would I have it done agin.... no I'd have sold them and put the money towards a 2017 Fox 36
You can still 'lockout' for the road, just wind the LSC all the way closed. Not quite as easy as the 3 position lever but not a problem if you know you usually run, for example, 4 clicks from open then just wind it all the way closed for road/climbs etc. I have the 'cheapo' RC Pikes and like the fact that LSC is easy to adjust while riding (more so for avoiding sketchy g-outs etc).
Thanks fellas. I'll give it a go as I simply can't face spending a grand on a fork. Cheers. Paul
Well I suppose we can only conclude that Tom-W1987 is dead, no way he could let a FAST related thread run this long without input
Who advised you that the factory tune is for the 13 stone rider?
I'm 15 stone, so wondering if this is true how much improvement I can get out of my 2.5 year old pikes..
Who advised you that the factory tune is for the 13 stone rider?
Well it is not really true... How do they know that?
AS obviously they are an air fork the the spring rate is based on how much air you put in them, the compression damper will have a certain "tune" which will more than likely be designed to suit the "average" rider rather than mega light or heavy riders, but it is down to riding style and terrrain etc as well as weight.
I had a Revelation fork serviced and tuned by TF, came back great and had a nice chat with the tech working on it about exactly what I wanted from it before it was sent back to me.
Highly recommended.
Thanks fellas.
I was advised that in building a product at factory it has to be built in terms of damping/oil weights etc to a 'normal' rider. Makes sense as most folk fit n a relatively normal distribution curve.
If however you're off the top or bottom of the normal distribution curve for weight logically the 'factory settings' may not be ideal. Wiggles is right, of course of spring weights for an air fork, but even the factory recommendations vary the rebound setting with spring weight.
In my portly case I'm at the top of the weight - hence the query on whether or not it's worth getting the damping fettled. Sounds like it is.
If you feel that you need it get it. Or if you hav the spare dollar go for it. They should feel pretty good fresh from a service anyway.
Ask/listen to Tf's advice they know a lot and definitely a lot more than the armchair mechanics/engineers on here.
Just wondering if you looked at any other tunes like the andreani ohlins kit or such like? Or if anyone else has had experience with it?
I did see an online guide not long ago that shows you that said you can alter the factory shimstack yourself as diy job, maybe that's worth looking at.
I was advised that in building a product at factory it has to be built in terms of damping/oil weights etc to a 'normal' rider. Makes sense as most folk fit n a relatively normal distribution curve.
If however you're off the top or bottom of the normal distribution curve for weight logically the 'factory settings' may not be ideal.
I am that 13st man...
Trust me, if they designed the Pike to suit me, they didn't do a very good job of it!
Not at all supple off the top which means you then have to load it full of volume spacers to allow you to lower the pressure in it without causing it to bottom out all the time. This then makes the fork too progressive! Also the factory HSR circuit is waaaaaay overdamped, and the LSC is nigh on useless as add more than a couple of clicks and it causes spiking on bigger hits!
In fairness the Lyrik is a decent improvement, at least on the air spring side of things as it's much more supple off the top owing to a larger negative chamber. Fitment of an MRP Ramp Control Cartridge also allows for more control over the spring rate, allowing it to be more linear for more of the travel, and only start to ramp up right close to bottom out (when you need the resistance), and its speed sensitive nature is a big bonus there too as it means you can have a supple fork that is also resistant to bottoming on the harder hits.
Standard charger damper is still pretty sub par though! Still debating FAST or Andreani myself, or sell up and get a 2017 Fox 36 (and then do I go FIT4 like most are now suggesting, or RC2 and plump for a PUSH compression mod on top of the already stratospheric asking price?!?!)... Or there's the left field choice of the new MRP Ribbon. I've had Stage forks and loved them, only running a Lyrik now as the Stage doesn't come in a 160mm 29er version!
I've been thinking about the FAST upgrades but they're way too expensive and would rather spend the money on another fork.
However I am going to try the vorsprung leftkappe for a relatively cheap way of fixing the small bump compliance issue
Have a chat with the guys at TF, they are pretty good and usually up for a chat and explain the options so you can make an informed decision.
Depends what you are after. In my opinion the factory damper is totally fine for the everyday rider. You just need it tuned to bring the operating range around your weight rather than the average person.
Riders who want more performance can achieve this with the upgrades that TF offer and of course these can also be tuned or offer greater adjustment to work better for your weight.
Standard charger damper is still pretty sub par though!
FAKE NEWS!
Hahah.
I was hobbling/mincing along at snail pace - on my bike at Greno, trying to build my ankle strength back up and comparing two FAST damped forks - my coil equipped 160mm Pike to an air sprung MRP Ramp control equipped 170mm Lyrik.
They do two versions of the FAST damper upgrade, but I can't recommend the high speed adjuster enough. It feels to me - like it acts almost like both a high speed/mid speed adjuster, in that it feels like it controls how late the High speed compression damping blows off off - so the more you wind it in, the stiffer the fork starts to feel under hits which bring the fork into the midstroke.
Anyway, search my post history - I've written about it before. I do think that it's a good upgrade, especially considering the cost of a new Fox 36 these days. The cost of the 36 will go up, if you want to get the damping circuits set up closer for your weight as well - like the FAST damper does - so you'd be looking at around 1200 quid.
The charger damper isn't subpar, there are very few dampers that better it - it's just people have different tastes in damping. Therefore it's best to buy the chassis that you want and then fettle to get the feel, instead of buying and selling several forks until you get what you are looking for - like a lot do on here.
Find what bothers you, specifically, about your current fork and get it tuned out. Ordering a new off the shelf fork without 2-3 days of demo time on it, is a very expensive gamble.
If you must buy a 36, at least get one on demo from a company such as Soho Bikes.
The charger damper isn't subpar, there are very few dampers that better it - it's just people have different tastes in damping.
Ok fair enough, but I'm far from the only person to complain about it though. To be honest, the Yari is a better bet for most riders, maybe doesn't have the tunability of the Charger, but does seem to work better for more people out of the box.
If you must buy a 36, at least get one on demo from a company such as Soho Bikes.
Yeah, but I can buy it at the same price as they can... So I have to take a gamble...
I'm certain the FAST 3 way damper upgrade would give me what I want, but I'm not certain that it's the most cost effective way to get there. I was all set to order an MRP Ribbon (despite the questionable looks) based upon my love of the Stage, but they've got rid of the self equalising positive and negative air chambers and gone to an older dual air adjustment, which will make it more of a faff to get the setup bang on... And then we come back to the 36RC2 being rather overdamped for most from the factory, and the FIT4 having less adjustment (though do I need it?), which brings me back to the FAST route... Though of course there's also the Andreani piston kit which I've heard good reports about.
if you are sending it in for a service, they will tune the shim stacks for an extra £50
I'm certain the FAST 3 way damper upgrade would give me what I want, but I'm not certain that it's the most cost effective way to get there.
Considering a used Pike/Lyrik value is circa £300-400 and a new Fox 36 is circa £1000 - that 600-700 spent.
Considering a FAST damper upgrade is £150 quid after the cost of a service has been taken out, then it is a far far more cost effective way of sorting the damping out. You could even throw in the cost of a coil upgrade, Luftkappe or AWK air spring upgrade - and it would still be cheaper.
I'm not sure the Adreani piston has the same number of stock tunes, if any, like the FAST damper does. I think..... but I am ignorant and not sure of this.... you might end up spending more time sending it back to get the shimstack tune right, where as the FAST damper seems to have had substantial development put into a few different stock tunes.
My personal feeling on the Pike is that it is the spring side that is really the issue, the coil mod did more for me - and for less money - than the FAST damper upgrade did, although the latter did offer a good improvement.
I'd love a coil equipped Fox 36, but I'd probably end up spending 1500 quid on the fork, the PSP coil conversion and the PUSH compression conversion - for a fork that's going to be negligibly better on the spring side and damper side - if better at all - Kashima makes all of **** all performance difference and supposedly increases stanchion wear. The chassis would be stiffer for sure - but not a 1500 quid hole in my wallet stiffer.
Ok fair enough, but I'm far from the only person to complain about it though. To be honest, the Yari is a better bet for most riders, maybe doesn't have the tunability of the Charger, but does seem to work better for more people out of the box.
Isn't that just because MoCo and MiCo have never knowingly put up a fight against the flow of oil?
Isn't that just because MoCo and MiCo have never knowingly put up a fight against the flow of oil?
I'm quite fussy about my suspension, and I couldn't fault my Lyrik's for anything other than reliability. A coil spring and a bolt to blank off the rebound adjuster and stop it leaking and they were faultless IME/IMO.
My personal feeling on the Pike is that it is the spring side that is really the issue, the coil mod did more for me
Glad to hear this, getting mine done atm should be back from tf this week.