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I ride a lot of lanes locally , this time of year with reduced daylight and visibility I wear a bright orange jacket thinking it gives me half a chance with car drivers?
All Summer I see roadies in bright colours but now this time of year the majority are like Johnny Cash The Man In Black ? Just seems counter intuitive to me , though sometimes I get close passes so maybe they've worked out it doesn't make a shit of difference wearing " Can you see me now colours" ?
You were right in the assumption if makes **** all difference what colour clothing you wear. To be seen other road users, they need to look, and that is something beyond the ability of most. I get hi-vized up just so I can't get blamed when I do get close passed/hit.
The roads are full of black cars that have driven into each other 😉
@MoreCashThanDash do you mean I already posted about this ? I'm at a funny age .
Sample size of one; I went out last week for the first time wearing a new Galibier bright orange gilet covered in reflective strips. I got more close passes than I can ever remember beforehand. Also was wearing a green jacket with 3M strips on it the day the Ford Galaxy pulled out on me and broke my spine.
Saw 3 people texting while driving down the M60 today. I really don't think what colour you wear makes the slightest bit of difference.
IMO lights make way more difference than colour of clothing. A decent light will punch through most weather conditions and catch the eye of drivers more than clothing.
Anecdotally... I've been out riding and clocked a flashing rear light (or an oncoming flashing front light) a long way ahead of me way before I can even see the shape of the rider, never mind the colour of clothing.
Dressed all in black. Retina destroying red lights that strobe once every six and a half seconds.
The colour of clothing on a bike makes naff all difference.
/end of thread.
I personally don't like black tops. My two warm winter tops are black as that's the only colour they came in so I usually stick a light coloured top over it when commuting/road rides.
In Dustin Klein's recent video about making a Gore jacket from scraps, he designed it with a dark back as riding the road in winter without proper guards covers your jacket in muck and ruins the fabric color. I'd not considered this before, but I have a nice winter soft shell in bright red but for the back panel which is annoyingly black.
Whilst I ate that they have to be looking to see you, it helps if you're had to miss.
I tend to wear fairly bright colour tops and jackets, when I actually get out on the road bike.
My mild winter gloves are bright yellow, my lobster gloves are retro reflective silver.
I wear retro reflective toe covers on my shoes all year round.
My Boardman jacket/gillet is fully retro reflective, but can be a bit boil in the bag.
Usually wear bright socks, some have retro reflective bands.
Moving bright and/or retro reflective garments on legs and feet are more likely to be seen imo.
...riding the road in winter without proper guards covers your jacket in muck...
The solution is to ride a bike with proper mudguards, not design a jacket that hides the dirt!
I used to commute regularly by bike for 20+ years - the brightest clothing and retina burning lights made sod-all difference, particularly in daylight. Reflectives at night however did tend to make a difference.
IMO lights make way more difference than colour of clothing.
It's been grey and wet here for a few days. I've seen several roadies in full black outfits with no lights dissapear in the road mist. I'm genuinely terrified for them.
I wear bright colours when I expect to be on the road because if my light fails then at least it's better than wearing black.
A helmet light and rear when commuting in all conditions. Bad passes were very rare.
As someone who has designed and assessed camouflage for a living... It's Contrast Not Colour that's important. And the primary cue for detection is movement not contrast, so have a flashing light.
I wear what I can afford. Not all, but a lot of my cold weather cycle clothing happens to be dark. Have been tending toward brighter cycle clothing more recently however. Not a roadie, but commuter on a hybrid.
Doubt it'll make the blindest bit of difference. Even on my cycle through town tonight there were two drivers that almost pulled out on me from a side road without even giving a glancing look in my direction. Wearing high viz isn't going to help when some don't even take the time to bloody look. The poor level of driving is really getting rather tiresome
I have black jacket and tights for winter on my road bike.
I top it off with a bright pink gilet with a massive reflective band round it.
Mostly hoping to look weird enough to be looked at/ registered by driver. " Look at that weirdo" means they've seen me and hopefully are less likely to squish me.
I saw someone else with the same gilet on. And I think my plan is a great one : )
My dad was recently knocked off his road bike wearing Met HiViz helmet, Endura HiViz Jacket.
The police attended, the driver said he didn't see my dad.
The Copper looked at my dad and immediately tested his eye sight and then requested a proper court sanctioned eye test.
My Dad is fine, some lingering bruises and has had a lovely new road bike paid for by the Driver insurance, not everyone is so lucky
Two rear lights and respro reflective ankle bands that shout "cyclist" to the approaching driver. Three and a half ours yesterday evening. Not a single close pass. In fact most were more than accommodating as I rode some of the lanes.
I ride with lights all the time; Exposure Daybright and a Garmin radar.
I wouldn't blame the cyclists too much as there does seem to be a trend with kit manufacturers to use dark clothing colours, which limits choice. Might look into a gilet actually.
That said, I got my spine broken in daylight, wearing bright red on a bright red bike, with two front lights switched on.
Yesterday:
Someone turned right across me. Had a feeling they were going to do it so I was ready to stop and I did, no big deal. I saw them look at me. I saw them looking at me as they were turning, but they just did it anyway. I think they just were not expecting a bike to be going at 20 or so (not bragging, it was downhill).
Someone close passed me. They saw me fine because they moved out _just_ enough to squeeze past with the car coming the other way. They even indicated. The thing with this one was, it was 100m before a dual carriageway. We're talking country road short dual carriageway, not major A road. And not busy.
To be fair on them I was wearing black. Oh and pink reflective overshoes and gloves. And white helmet. And Exposure Trace flashing on max front and rear.
Within reason, it makes no difference what you wear.
Once on a very minor country road, actually part of the national cycle network and a designated county cycling route, person pulls up along side: 'you shouldn't be wearing black, all you cyclist wear black, blah blah'. It was high summer, middle of the afternoon, not a cloud in the sky. Response: 'well, you saw us OK didn't you?'
Black kit looks best from an aesthetic PoV but I always wear bright colours (or white)- not because I think it makes a difference, but because its one less thing for drivers to moan about/use as an excuse.
I always run front and rear lights now though, pretty much all year round. Garmin Varia on flash for the rear and a Bontrager Ion 200+ on the front- a dedicated daytime flash light with disruptive flash pattern. Its tiny and weighs almost nothing so seems like a no-brainer and I think makes a big difference.
Each to their own.
I tend to wear bright colour clothing. Every little helps.
I too see some black or dark/muted colour only riders without lights, reflective or bright clothing - and they can 'hide' well
But then the two times I've been knocked off I was wearing lumi yellow jacket and had a light on...
I'm also of the view that most bike incidents, close passes and near misses have nothing to do with SMIDSY and a lot more to do with sh*t judgement, entitled driving and crap driving skills.
I use a bright flashing rear light, because I want everyone to know I’m there but I feel safer if some of them are just not that confident exactly where. Many of my closest calls have been deliberate close passes.
I started road biking again this summer after a break of a few years, pre covid at least, and noticed that almost every roadie rides with a blinkie now. My riding area is usually between the Bilbao ferry and the French border. In August I was riding in daylight with a blinkie, and almost without fail if a driver passed too close, it was either a UK or French registration. Clear signs everywhere saying 1.5m passing distance.
In fact, I had so many aggressive passes on Saturday over the French side that I won't be going back that way in a hurry (Pyrenees is different, way fewer cars).
Conclusion, it's neither the lights nor the fluoro garb. It's avoiding these tossers as much as possible. Unfortunate if you live in UK or France.
(Disclaimer - only time I've been knocked off was a Spanish driver. He missed the first time, turned back and crossed the central line to hit me head on, just to make sure)
In general I find the amount of room I'm given is more than enough when there is nothing coming the other way . The problem starts when there is oncoming traffic and a driver thinks I can easily get through there . The other day an Audi estate thought the same and succeeded only because the guy in the Transit coming the other way jammed on his anchors . Trouble is if it goes Pete Tong we all know who's going to come off worse .
I don't think the Highway Code update re hierarchy has made a shit of difference. No
I wouldn’t blame the cyclists too much as there does seem to be a trend with kit manufacturers to use dark clothing colours, which limits choice.
The manufacturers make what people want to buy.
FWIW - the ninja cyclists round here are mostly not "roadies", who seem to be relatively sensible in terms of visibility - its the "non-cyclist on a bike" who seem to be wearing tarmac at dusk camo, have no lights when its dark and have removed all the reflectors to look cool.
I have to agree that colours seem to make sod all difference; when daily commuting I used to have multiple rear lights, one flash one solid and spoke reflectors are worth it because they work at multiple angles. if they are going to close pass or hit you that's because they are ****s
The theory is that the flashing light gets their attention but the solid light makes it easier to track where you are visually, something about depth perception
funnily enough, some celebs wear proviz jackets because if anyone tries to photograph them when not working they get a blizzard of backflash - we're fashionable!
Returning from the city center on Saturday at about dusk, got behind a small group pottering along. Of the 3 only 1 had lights
I could have zipped ahead as they were pottering a bit slow even for me, but felt a kind of responsibility and thought my bigger Exposure eye burners would help to keep them safe.
I'm not convinced clothing colour makes much difference but it depends where you're riding. Dayglo.can be seen a long way off on straighter country roads but is a lot less visible in towns and cities.
FWIW I tend to avoid black/dark colours for road riding but don't go out of my way to be especially bright.
Lights are more important. I use a Varia radar rear and a little Exposure front during daylight hours.
The number of riders I see with no lights, after dark, always amazes me. When I worked at The Bike Chain in Edinburgh, Mark and I would often commute with a spare, new, set of lights and offer them to the unlit for free. Most weren't interested; too fiddly, can't be arsed fitting them, they'll just be stolen, and "but they'll just need new batteries" were all reasons given.
Dayglo.can be seen a long way off on straighter country roads but is a lot less visible in towns and cities.
A good point.
You can 'blend in' in a city with a surfeit of yellow high Viz, bright signs, etc etc
I find 'unusual' colours are better in a city.
I also agree that lights and reflective (preferably on legs as they move) are more important than colour of jersey...
I definitely find bright pink or something more visible than yellow/green in a city (in daylight), as someone earlier said it's contrast not colour. Pink is just that bit more unusual. Not that I wear it :-p
At night, reflective stuff helps much more than colour by itself, unsurprisingly. Many of the schoolkids round here wear coats that look greyish but light up like a beacon in your headlights, brilliant stuff. Proviz I think is the main/original brand but there are plenty of copies around now.
In general I share the opinion of "every little helps". Will high-vis help when a driver doesn't look? Of course not. But it will help for some drivers.
Similarly (and not to get sidetracked!) will a helmet help when I get flattened by a speeding lorry? Of course not. Will it help in the much more likely scenario of a slow-speed collision with a left-hooker or someone stopping with their bonnet sticking out of a side road in front of me? Probably. So I wear one.
Similarly (and not to get sidetracked!) will a helmet help when I get flattened by a speeding lorry? Of course not. Will it help in the much more likely scenario of a slow-speed collision with a left-hooker or someone stopping with their bonnet sticking out of a side road in front of me? Probably. So I wear one.
I wear one (on the road bike) partly because, on a proper road ride it's almost 'part of the uniform' and partly to avoid the newspaper report into my death reading "the cyclist, who was not wearing a helmet....." and the associated victim blaming!
Agree about the contrast comments. In town, another yellow hi vis is neither here nor there. I find blue or pink work well. I had one of those bright pink gilets for a while and my main commuting jacket was a bright light-blue colour which was something different from the normal stream of cyclists in yellow hi-vis.
And the primary cue for detection is movement not contrast, so have a flashing light
better strapping a light or reflective strip round your ankles
.
Exposure Trace flashing on max front and rear
...
I use a bright flashing rear light, because I want everyone to know I’m there but I feel safer if some of them are just not that confident exactly where.
The 2 above are great - if you're confident that uncertainty leads to caution. One alternative might be that:
Many of my closest calls have been deliberate close passes.
Re. lights, I use 2 rear lights, one flashing and one steady.
This is based on my own experience seeing others when I'm driving - I find flashing easier to notice (small steady red lights often get lost in the city surroundings, even bright ones) but steady is easier to judge the position/distance/speed.
better strapping a light or reflective strip round your ankles
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A good point.
You can ‘blend in’ in a city with a surfeit of yellow high Viz
as another point, on a country road with wet tarmac, green trees in the background with low sun/dappled light, I've seen the stereotypical retiree randoneur uniform of hi vis coat and helmet cover, with plain black leggings nearly disappear.
Red would be ideal in this situation, apart from the red-green colourblind.
better strapping a light or reflective strip round your ankles
pretty sure that almost no "proper*" bike complies with this, but pedal reflectors are technically required after dark. Reflective backing on the shoes is a good substitute. reflective pants clip for the urban commuter another good idea.
(*a proper bike being one which doesn't come stock with pedals from the shop, tongue firmly in cheek here)
pretty sure that almost no “proper*” bike complies with this, but pedal reflectors are technically required after dark.
You can get reflectors that clip into SPDs to make them single sided - used to have them on my commuter.
Its true a lot are dumb about dark night/miserable weather clothing. I personally think riding on the road is an excuse to wear mad colours 🙂
Pink or bright orange Rapha gilet, or coat with reflective bits all over on my night rides or bad weather. My commute used to be reflective gilet and/or yellow goretex jacket. Even in the summer I go for bright colours. always ride with at least one rear light/camera in the day and two lights front and back at night. Still have had the 'didnt see you there mate' !
As I was walking home from work, a driver went straight through a zebra crossing while I was waiting. I had a black coat on so it was my fault.
I go with what I've observed to work as a frequent city driver. Front and rear light flashing at all times. Steady lights just blend in with city traffic. A white helmet is visible day and night.
I have mostly dark cycling kit but do have reflective bits on shoes and top.
I got T-boned from a sideroad once on my motorbike and more recently on my pushbike (low sun was blamed by the driver. I had my lights on my pushbike but they weren't switched on)... Both in broad daylight....
Decathlon only do their roadie waterproof in a dark translucent fabric but otherwise it's really good ?♂️
I think I get the get the best passes riding solo in club kif (doesn't work on club rides though).
I think light quality makes a difference. There's a special time of day - just before dusk - when cyclists on the road become quasi invisible and anything that might up the chances of being seen is worth a punt, bright colours, lights, reflective. Ditto in rain / fog etc.
In good visibility I'm not sure it makes much difference at all, but I ride always with a rear light and sometimes with a front. At night reflective stuff makes you super visible.
I think you can get caught up in a lot of nuanced fiction about bright colours and the way drivers behave, but ultimately it's always seemed to me that it's better to be visible than not. Second guessing what preconceptions some random driver might have - and let's be honest, 'drivers' are not some homogenous group, they differ wildly from one another - is beyond my remit / capabilities.
So, I mostly don't wear black on the road, particularly in low visibility conditions - dusk, rain, murk, night. But I don't have strong views on what others choose to wear either.
That said, I've chanced on - almost catastrophically - riders dressed in black, with no lights or reflective in the pitch dark. That seems daft.
At night, I'm legally required to have lights, so I do. I can see and be seen. I'm also legally required to have some reflectors on the bike, but I make sure I have some reflective on me instead. Proviz overshoes are amazing and horrendous all at once.
Daylight I'll also use lights, and don't worry too much about clothes. Most of my kit is a pretty solid block of some colour or other, so will stand out against some backgrounds at some point. Nothing will work in all conditions, so I don't worry about it and I don't worry what other cyclists wear. Their choice, their risk.
Nothing will work in all conditions, so I don’t worry about it and I don’t worry what other cyclists wear.
I was thinking that actually what's needed is an inverted high-vis. A "high-vis" gilet blends into the leaves and hedges, whilst black leggings blend into the road. What you really want is bright yellow leggings and a contrasting top.
But yea, I was on one of those motorcycle accident reduction courses run by the police and their take was that nothing works all the time. If you're riding down a treelined road in autumn with strobing lights and yellow high vis feeling invincible then you'll get hit because actually your jacket matches the leaves and your strobing light just looks exactly like the dappled sunlight poking through the branches. In that scenario you'd be better off in all black. At the same time, if the car is outside the woods looking in, the lights stick out more because they contrast (from the drivers perspective) with the dark woodland. Same rider, same gear, same place, completely different levels of visibility depending on where the car is coming from.
Think about whether the driver has seen you as well as whether they can.
It's the MTBers that concern me. Any rear lights are covered in muck, they have huge blinding lights, including helmet lights on the road and wear black, covered in mud.