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**warning - post contains narrow-tyre content**
I have a Scott Solace disc road bike, which I bought second hand some time back. It's a cracking bike and I love riding it, but the shifters are pretty much knackered with so much play in the lever blades that they perpetually rattle on every ride. I've also started to experience some contamination of brake pads, so I suspect the calipers aren't much better. This isn't a big shock to me and the bike was adequately cheap such that I don't mind spending money to fix this.
Hydraulic road shifters aren't cheap though. To replace like for like (the obvious solution), with a set of R8020 shifters and calipers will cost the best part of £500. I don't object to this (I knew I'd have to do it eventually when I originally bought the bike), but I've started to look around and I could swap the whole lot out and replace with R8070 DI2 (including both mechs, battery and cables) for less than £1000. Mmmm, electric shifting. The rest of the drive train is in good nick, so if I went down the mechanical route, the existing (Dura Ace) mechs would be fine.
So, do I spend a monkey for a like-for-like refresh, or spend a grand and get DI2? Come on STW, don't let me down!
Sounds like you want DI2, so get DI2.
Spending helps the economy, so you'll be doing your bit for the country 😛
If it were me i'd go 105 mech or ultegra di2. Don't think ultegra mechanical offers enough over 105 any more.
Had Di2 in Dura Ace and Ultegra, disc and non disc form on various bikes over the years, including the first version of Dura Ace Di2, also have built Di2 bikes for various people inc paid professional riders
Works great, very low maintenance, used all year round in all weathers with no issues
Currently running Campag Super record mechanical
Not fussed about going back to Di2 but would recommend to anyone who hasn't had Di2 to give it a go
Sounds like your 90% convinced to try it so go for it
Having had a brief go with di2 hydro, id do it.
It is ****in lovely to use.
The one i tried was ultegra.
You do realise that when my wife takes me to task on this, I will offer this thread by way of formal defence? 🙂
Good point on 105 shifters, BTW. That'll be an alternative option.
@escrs Have you used the bar end junction box on your builds? Looks much neater than the "under stem" thing, which always looks a bit of a cludge to me. Would mean getting a new bar too, but that's not going to break the bank.
Went Di2 hydraulic few years ago and love it.
At my level doesn't improve my performance but I just like having it.
Wish I could stop brake squealing though.
If there is one area where I think Di2 shifters win, it must be hydraulics - a switch plus a piston instead of a cable ratchet system. Once you've gone electric, like carbon, you won't be going back.
And I agree, new Ultegra and 105 are basically the same. When 105 Di2 comes out, that will be a disruptive technology.
Disclaimer - I have SRAM eTap 11 speed and Di2 10 speed on TT bikes. Manual on all the others from Tiagra 10 speed to Dura Ace 11 speed (my personal favourite).
The Japanese kill whales.
Why would you want to support a Japanese company?
(That knowledge will haunt you every mile you ride and the feeling of Di2 smugness turns to self loathing - or not.)
Can't say I get the appeal of urinating a load of money into the wind on Di2, that roughly covers the cost of a second hydraulic 105 r7000 road bike...
Aren't the benefits basically automatic gear shifting (including optimum time to change between chainrings) and less cables?
The Japanese kill whales.
Why would you want to support a Japanese company?
(That knowledge will haunt you every mile you ride and the feeling of Di2 smugness turns to self loathing – or not.)
I guess I've been running Shimano kit on both road and MTB for years so the fact that they kill whales, or don't, doesn't really affect my purchasing decision. The question would perhaps be whether they use Shimano kit to do this, which I guess isn't beyond the realm of possibility, as the other half of the business make fishing kit, but I suspect not. I believe that SRAM kit is all designed in the USA and I have more issues with that country's environmental policies than I do with the Japanese...
Disclaimer – I have SRAM eTap 11 speed and Di2 10 speed on TT bikes. Manual on all the others from Tiagra 10 speed to Dura Ace 11 speed (my personal favourite).
@TiRed How do you rate DI2 vs eTap? Initial thoughts are it's a far chunk more expensive for hydraulics and, if I were to go with the newer AXS stuff, that would also necessitate expensive swapping of freehubs, chainsets etc...
I have both di2 (although only a few rides on it so far) and etap, plus have had normal ultegra up until recently.
All shift equally as well as each other if I'm honest. Di2 and etap don't require on going maintenance if you are too lazy to change or index cables every so often.
Etap is cleaner and I love the shifting configuration. And di 2 is nice to have but none are game changer.
That said I'd say the same about disk brakes...
Etap is cleaner and I love the shifting configuration. And di 2 is nice to have but none are game changer.
No question about this. Reckon I could have it fitted in 30 minutes!
That said I’d say the same about disk brakes…
Having now worn out two sets of moderately expensive wheels purely through rim wear, the decision to go disc is a bit of a no brainer for me. For a "Sunday race bike", I'd agree that the difference is negligible and I've never found my rim brake bikes to be under-braked, but rim wear in bad weather in a real issue, and the ability to run those posh, carbon rims in poor weather without worrying about grinding them down appeals hugely!
I certainly like the idea of it and if it comes out at 105 level even more so. I like the idea of the synchro shifting, so you are just deciding to go up or down letting it do double shifts particularly as I reckon with that it will make winter riding with warm gloves a bit easier.
I have ultegra Di2 on my best bike and Campag Daytona on my old best bike. Shifting wise Di2 is easy (once I stop pressing the wrong buttons) and flawless. The 20 year old Campag is a touch 'agricultural' in feel, but is also flawless and hasn't needed any adjustment ever. There's a world of difference between rim and disk brakes (but we already know that).
Personally, I don't think Di2 is something I'd seek out again, but I'd definitely go with hydraulic disk brakes.
eTap looks a lot cleaner than Di2, no wires at all and tiny batteries on each mech.
I've ridden Di2 Ultegra and its great. But my next groupset is going to be mechanical DA. It'll be on my summer bike which has canti's and is not Di2 specific. DA will just look better rather than retro fit the Ultegra DI2 and will be cheaper for the full groupset.
If I bought a new bike it would be Di2 all the way.
Doesn't solve your dilemma but Hydro shifters in both DI2 and mechanical flavours are on great deal at the moment at probikekit...
Im a mountain biker and reluctant road rider. Ive got Di2 on the road bike. Two things stand out.
It has affected my shifting quite a lot. I now notice I shift way more often than before. Basically you are just pressing a button, up/down so its simple to shift and as fast as you can press the button. So I find I shift more, way more.
Also love the fact you can synchro the shifting, so no more wondering if I need to shift the front rings or not. Its just up or down, all on one shifter. Once tried I was convinced, whereas I didnt think it was a good or necessary idea.
Get DI2. Once you experience the effortless front shifting, self trimming front mech and minimal maintenance you'll never go back to wired. Your frame also has internal cable routing so you'll be able to have a nice neat DI2 installation.
On my TT bikes I see no difference. Di2 has cables and on my steel trike these are external, but looks pretty neat anyway. ETap is cleaner but has a blip box on the stem. I’d think about swapping etap between bikes but not Di2.
Both are excellent. You’d not regret either. Mechanical DA9000 on my best bike is my favourite but that has mechanical rim brakes.
On a TT bike when you are absolutely on the rivet or completely spent, electric shifting is a game changer, on a road bike, less so.
I see Di2 or/or Dura Ace as jewellery for road bikes - nice to have but 105 does the same job for a fraction of the cost. Functionally, they are so similar now; I think most would really struggle to tell them apart in a blind test. 500g weight saving may or may not mean a great deal to you!
On a TT bike when you are absolutely on the rivet or completely spent, electric shifting is a game changer, on a road bike, less so.
Ironically my tt bike is the only bike I don't have it on, and it's the one that I think would benefit from it most. Changing gears from brake levers would be massively beneficial
It's probably something I'd consider in a post brexit utopia when the pound get's back to $2:£1 and it's a sensible price.
Until then I'm sticking with good old 7800 (with planet x rim brakes and FSA carbon chainset). The shifting may well be better, but it's the squishy bit on the pedals that will always hold me back.
Seems a no-brainer to me but I constantly seem to fall on the 'wrong' side of these threads!
Save £500 and possibly a tiny bit of weight and stick with mechanical shifting? Spend money saved on any number of other lovely things including (if you really wanted) all the tools and know how to carry out the (minimal, in my experience as a Scottish all weather commuter) maintenance required on the cables?
Doubt I could ever be tempted to introduce 'new' problems such as batteries, firmware updates, version incompatibilities etc. onto my road bike, especially not if I'm being asked to pay double for the privilege.
*disclaimer: written as a man who pretty much figured out Shimano's 'trim shifting' first time round and can use entirety of rear block whilst in big ring...
Like one of the chaps above, I've got 5800, 6800, 9000 DA and Ultegra R8070 (Di2).
I can most definately tell the difference between 105 and R8070 Di2. The Di2 is awesome, front ring change is just the press of a button. I do like my DA as well, but I find that cosmetic rather than functionally better.
Its all about whether its worth it you, as much as I really like having it on my bike, I wouldn't pay £1k for it when I could spend less than half of that for mechanical. Unless of course, the money isn't an issue. For me, I couldn't justify it.
Thanks guys, this is all great advice and opinion. Obviously, there isn't really a right or wrong answer here. I will need to replace my shifters whatever happens, so guess it's a choice between 105 at the bottom (not going to go lower than this) and Ultegra DI2 at the top (Dura Ace no different, just a bit lighter), with Ultegra Mech setting in between the two.
Rather suspiciously, I think the taxman might be about to give me about £ultegra_di2 in a tax refund (ref: "intaxication" - the feeling of euphoria that you experience when receiving a tax refund which lasts until you remember that it was your money in the first place), so while money isn't exactly no object, I do at least have some choices here. That said, I'm not at all sure Mrs Daern would let me dump £1000 on bike bits anyway!
Save £500 and possibly a tiny bit of weight and stick with mechanical shifting? Spend money saved on any number of other lovely things including (if you really wanted) all the tools and know how to carry out the (minimal, in my experience as a Scottish all weather commuter) maintenance required on the cables?
In this case, I'm already well sorted here - I've been building and maintaining my own bikes for years, so this wouldn't really be bought because I can't make mechanical gears work - it would be to improve the cycling experience...and, honestly, because I've always wanted DI2 on my bike! Yes, it's hard to justify, but I suppose this could be said of many luxuries in life!
Mentioned it to my 10yo son in passing: "Aww, come on. It'll be wasted on you. Put it on my bike instead!" - the sad thing being...he's probably right 🙂
I’ve had Di2 and etap - both are pretty nice although I prefer Shimano just for the lever shape.
Side note - make sure your frame is Di2 ready, otherwise you’re drilling holes or running an external kit. Obviously not an issue with sram
Side note – make sure your frame is Di2 ready, otherwise you’re drilling holes or running an external kit. Obviously not an issue with sram
Yeah, in my case it's all internally routed and there's even an adapter kit to reset the frame holes for the smaller DI2 cables.
Just for balance, I have Dura Ace 9100 on my steel 'best' bike but have had DI2 previously. I just prefer mechanical, but that's just me - I'm not saying DI2's not great; it shifts the gears really well.
Where it does fall down is on the (at least 10+) occasions over the last five years where a) a clubmate or riding buddy has not been able to ride that morning because they've not charged DI2 or it's screwed itself mid-ride so is only in the smallest sprocket, B) Done that silly thing after a big pothole strike where it goes into a safety mode or C) sensationally overheated in Mallorca after being left outside a cafe in the sun where the battery swelled; the remedy being a wet towel draped over it and, again, no shifting.
Not saying it's not the bees knees in shifting terms but hmm.....the added complexity isn't for me.
At my level doesn’t improve my performance but I just like having it.
doesn't improve performance at any level but that's not to say its not better or nicer. Just get it. Life is too short.
Just finished a race on my ultegra manual shifting race Propel, and I can honestly say I didn’t think about shifting, despite several hundred shifts. On a TT that would not be the case.
As said, a nice to have the n toad bikes but I do believe a game changer on the TT bike. Btw, despite the option, o don’t use blips on the base bars of my TT bikes. Just left button to shift down and right to shift up. In both sram and Di2. Simples.
@escrs Have you used the bar end junction box on your builds? Looks much neater than the “under stem” thing, which always looks a bit of a cludge to me. Would mean getting a new bar too, but that’s not going to break the bank.
Sorry cant comment on the bar end junction box as the last Di2 build i done was just before Shimano released it
New baby, promotion at work and few other things means i no longer have time for bike builds and have had to turn down a few that i would of loved to build, i struggle to find the time to ride and maintain my own bikes these days!
I’d go Di2 - I did in fact, moved from 9120 DA to 9170 - the di2 hydraulic shifters are a lot smaller than the mechanical ones and a lot more comfortable in the hand.
Just some of my old Di2 equipped bikes
https://flic.kr/p/2gMXcxT
https://flic.kr/p/2gMWuJ7
https://flic.kr/p/2gMWw7T
https://flic.kr/p/2gMXgx6
https://flic.kr/p/2gMWxEh
https://flic.kr/p/2gMWyVi
Nice bikes, @escrs! Remind us again, which is your favourite brand...? 😉