[Closed] Roadies

Does it fit you properly?
Don't worry about using the drops, I didn't for a loonnnggg time & only started using them more when I adjusted my position (self done bike fit, dropped both saddle & bar height)
Roads in the winter descending are scary anyway, so don't worry about that, especially at this time of year

I did 500 roadie bike miles last year, hated the handling and sold it. Put commuter rubber on my 29 HT spare wheels and the bike handles great

Going from hoods to drops is something you will always concentrate on when doing, it generally means you are going faster & want to get more aero. Find quiet section of road & practice, have a play around with your position you might be too low to start of with Descending follows the same principle as off road it's just you can go much faster, increase your speed incrementally on hill you feel comfortable with.

What width tyres you on and pressures? If v narrow and v high pressure you will feel skittish at this time of year. I'd be tempted to be on wider tyres and run slightly lower pressure say 85-90psi rather than 100+ and see if that helps

Took me a while to get confident on the drops. It also took a lot more fuss to get the riding position dialled in than on my mtb. Make sure it fits properly, that'll make a difference.
Shitty winter roads will not inspire confidence either!

On the mtb when you blast down hill you will be relaxed and not thinking about it so being in that frame of my mind makes the descending easier, whereas on the road bike it is a vicious circle as being nervous and worrying will mean you are gripping the bars too tight and tensing up which leads to over correcting your line / braking too much and so on.

I wouldnt beat yourself up about it, what feels twitchy now will gradually start to feel responsive and agile and your confidence will grow naturally. How long this takes i dont know though. Worth remembering also that this time of year is a bit harder due to wet roads, stronger winds, potential frost and ice etc so even experienced roadies will be more cautious than during the summer months.

Not had a bike fit but I did move the seat forward mid ride as I felt stretched on my arms. Improved it a lot. Just I wobble when adjusting hand position. To be fair it was wet and dark.

And was nervous of traffic around me.

I do skills coaching. Let me know if you're interested.

Not sure on tyre width. It's on the oe Hutchinson Equinoxe 2 and 100 psi front and rear.

I do skills coaching. Let me know if you're interested.

I'm a consultant with a £1250 per day fee but I've decided not to milk the poor chap. Ffs.

Op, it's normal I was the same and as others have said you are picking the worst time / conditions to get comfortable. Give it time, but do make sure you google road bike fit as it is key to road biking. 23mm or 25mm tyres at 90psi will give you plenty of grip.

Road bike handling is easy to get used to compared with an mtb ,no different to going from my van to my car there is no more skill needed

Any reccomendations for tyres? I enjoyed it even though I was nervous. Gonna try again on Sunday when the roads are quiet.

Takes time to get used to. Find somewhere to practice where wobbles and mistakes aren't going to have severe consequences. Riding on the drops will be difficult if you haven't got your bike fit correct and then you need to sort out the technique - to begin with you won't be able to stay on the drops for long, maybe a minute or so. Keep at it.

Roadies often have a winter bike (as much to keep the road salt away from the good bike) which will have slightly wider tyres, either 25mm or 28mm, running at a slightly lower pressure say 80-90 psi.

I found it very alien at first. I was scared pedalling down the street...it was like jumping on a penny farthing or a unicycle. Didn't feel right at all, but it becomes normal after a while. Just a case of getting used to the feel, and becoming confident that you know what you're doing!

Winter doesn't help though. Come summer, on the dry roads, you'll be loving it.

it's normal to feel nervous and twitchy your first few rides, that head angle on the road bike is a lot steeper than your MTB so it doesn't take much input with your hands to make the bike move a lot, add the increased speed and that's why you feel unsteady and a little out of control. stick with it though, you will get used to it. you'll then under steer your MTB at first when you get back on it.

i remember my first ride with drop bars, a car pulled out and i was gripping the centre of the bars mtb style, paniced and reached for the brake levers quickly realizing it wasn't my MTB and the levers weren't there!

I started riding mtb's in the late 80's and road bikes three years ago, so I know where you are coming from.

I almost never use the drops, I spend most of my time riding on the hoods or on the tops when I'm cruising.

30 miles is a good stretch to get started, but you'll need a few more runs like that before it starts to feel normal, and as others have said, this isn't the best time of year.

Before you buy new tyres, just take the current ones down a few psi (depending on your weight). I'm around 76kgs and run 20mm tyres at 90 psi, and get good grip in all conditions, although wet, gravel and the occasional splash of diesel can upset things from time to time.

Depending on where you live, try to keep off busy roads as the last thing you need right now are idiots in vehicles giving you a hard time.

Stick at it, it's great fun. I now spend more time on the road than I do off, and last summer I spent a week cycling in the Highlands of Scotland and it was amazing.

Find a club, join their social ride a few times.

Been doing since I was a kid so not something I think about. Though did take up time trialling a couple of years ago and the first time in a tuck on the poles gave me some nervous moments! Takes a fair few rides to get nice and stable. I just went out and did a couple of longer rides (~2hr).

I bought a road bike in March this year and it took a while to get used to, it does feel natural after a while though. Just stick at it and you'll be fine.

I think I only really use the drops going downhill, and that's mainly as it feels like being on the drops makes braking more stable.

Takes a while, definitely more than 30 miles. Stick with it though. Once you get used to the twitch handling it is all good. You do seem to have your weight forward but it all works. Drops are actually more stable than the hoods - certainly in CX and road racing that is where I go when i need more control.

Just go steady, you'll still get further, faster than you would on a mtb. Pick some stuff to aim for* and just go ride steady building up miles and speed. Took me most of the summer to get confident to go for it down hill. Took me several years to actually be any good at it.

*I bought one just after I moved to Somerset and just googled landmarks to go and look at. Beats driving to places.

Bwfc, if you have transport and can get over to wigan in the week (on a dry day of course) I will try and fill your head with what you need, and check your bike setup too, IF you can/wish?
cheers

Tony

Takes time but stick with it.

How's the single life btw OP? Still free from the animal house?

Wait till you get a speed wobble..

Going from hoods to drops is something you will always concentrate on when doing,

Only if you're a bit crap. Can't say I've ever given it a second thought TBH, and I only got my first drop barred bike 18 months ago.

I don't mind being on the drops, it's just getting on them that's the problem. And my God the brakes are crap compared to Hydraulic disc brakes.
Been a bit snowtastic round here recently so I was glad to get out.

One thing that did hurt was my forearms. I think that maybe from gripping too tight. My aims for this year are to hit 50 miles, then hopefully 100.

Quite suprised I managed 30 (slow ) miles on my first ride. I struggle to do 15 miles on the mtb.

Oh and regards to single life, not quite single now having a no strings fun time.....!

riding on the roads when it's cold is also harder, you are coping with the wind chill, don't worry too much about handling and carving lines because you don't want to stack it on ice - when it's warmer you'll be able to move about on the bike and be more relaxed so it will feel less odd

come the spring, try and get a ride with someone who has ridden a fair bit, they'll help with the basics

don't ride on the drops.

I struggle going from the hoods to the drops without getting a massive twitch on

Normally the drops are more stable than the hoods. I suspect (as others have said) that your fit is not great and your bars are either too low or too far away. What is the saddle to top of bar drop. More than 8 cm is pretty extreme for a beginner. When you have your hands on the hoods, do you have a good bend in your elbows? If not, your stem is too long. Are you putting a lot of weight on your arms? If so, Make sure the saddle is level and move it forward half a centimetre at a time.

Fit is everything, but the basics are not hard. Oh and I do skills coaching too (as a hobby really) 😉 but you are too far away for me.

but I did move the seat forward mid ride as I felt stretched on my arms

NO NO NO NO NO NO, you don't adjust reach by moving the saddle! 😐

I hate descending on my road bike, but mainly because I hate being on the drops and braking feels less controlled on the hoods. I'm not sure if my bike reach is too short though which is why I hate the drops. My knees and elbows feel much too close together when I'm on the drops.

I'm solving this by buying a disc braked road bike or a CX that I can put road tyres on.

Very minimal bend if any when on the hoods. They are bent if I'm more forward on the seat (more on the nose)
I'm 5ft 10 and bike is 54cm. Think the stem is 100mm.

I'm near Bolton if you want any pointers sometime. I'm far from an expert though, and mostly out on the MTB at the moment with the crappy weather... If you see some nobber in Hope MTB kit on a Chinese carbon job it's probably me, so feel free to flag me down! 😀

Edit: Size sounds about right to me - I'm 5'10"/11" on a 55cm top tube with 110mm stem.

My mountain bike is currently having new brakes fitted (Deore m615)so decided to have a spin on the road bike. The original plan was road bike winter and mtb summer. I may rethink that!

I was refraining from comment thinking you just need a bit more time, simple as that I thought.
Though seems a tad small....to me. As I'm 5'8" on a 55 t-t and 120 stem.

Tops to drops should be a 'no brainer' as in requires no thought process at all, but that might be easy for me to say.
Do you know anyone with a turbo you can get your bike on to fettle with position and set up?
One little test re arm tiredness, sit in your favourtie riding position, slowly stop. Then without moving your body at all move your hands away from the bars, I repeat don't move your body. If you fall flat on your face the stem/bars are too low. Adjust until you can move away and still remain in position. Just means you aren't using your arms and body to sit still on the bike.
There are loads of little DIY things you can do prior to getting a fit. If you get a fit, get a non static one. Some fitters just use a formula, they set you up to a specific set of guides and send you on your way. Some fits give out data after fitting like pedal pattern, wattage etc etc. these can be fettled until perfect.

Changes feel really odd, so allow time. If I have ages off my MTB it feels like every nut bolt and washer has been loosened when I get back on.

If your getting a twitch on when going to drops you're probably leaning too much on the bars. How's your core strength? When I go between drops and hoods I unweight my arms by supporting my torso with my core. The bike tracks dead true even when you move both hands at the same time where you're no handed for a split second. Also choose the time you do it. Move to drops before the big descent before you've got some speed on, rather than during the big descent.

You're right to be scared when descending. That fear will keep you alive. You'll be going faster than on the MTB with the consequences of falling off being more severe, also you have an order of magnitude less grip and braking ability, even less in the wet.

consequences of falling off being more severe, also you have an order of magnitude less grip and braking ability, even less in the wet.

Yeah you're selling it to me now 🙂

Get some decent tyres on your roadie - cheap tyres will be uncomfortable and won't track well or hold the road especially in the wet and you'll sense it and feel insecure.

Anything of 120tpi (threads per inch) and above will be better than the budget tyres most manufacturers supply - Specialized fit their Espoir tyre for example, which is HORRIBLE.

Anything of 300 tpi and above will transform the bike. After years on Michelin Pro 3s and Pro 4s at 120 tpi I bought some Veloflex Open Corsas from Ribble, 320 tpi and they have transformed my bike - they are super comfortable and grippy and the bike feels so much more secure and "planted" than on the Michelins. Just those tyres have taken my handling and confidence to a whole new level.

There's only so much you can learn here from random people on the internet. By far the best thing to do is to either find your local road club and ask whether they run a ride for beginners, or find someone with a decent level of road experience to do a sanity check on your riding position.

Do persevere though. I was raised as a MTBer and never rode a bike with drops until my mid twenties. I too remember having similar feeling to you to begin with. Ten years on and I spend more time on the road bike than the mountain bikes (dammit).

After years on Michelin Pro 3s and Pro 4s at 120 tpi I bought some Veloflex Open Corsas from Ribble, 320 tpi and they have transformed my bike

One thing I did learn from random people on the internet is that different manufacturers measure TPI differently...

Exercise caution when comparing EPI of different tire brands as it is common that the total of all carcass layers are added together. An indication of 200 TPI results from 3 layers of 67 EPI each underneath the tread. With all EPI numbers above 127, it should be assumed that the figures have been calculated by adding up the strands in all layers. Schwalbe only indicates the material density in one carcass layer. Commonly, there are 3 carcass layers underneath the tread.

So Schwalbe at 127 actually has more TPI than Veloflex at 320. Still lovely tires though and it is true that good tyres and tubes (especially latex ones) can transform a ride.

I was raised as a MTBer and never rode a bike with drops until my mid twenties

This makes me feel old, when I was a nipper I had to ride my dad's BSA town bike with added cow horn bars, MTB's were just a twinkle in some bloke in California's eye

Welcome to road cycling
Get a decent bike fit.
Get the miles in.
Enjoy.
🙂

Disagree with a few on here, I don't think riding a road bike is easy if you're not used to it. And i'm not sure i'd recommend riding with a club if you are still nervous and lacking confidence, get out on your own (sounds like you are) on quite roads if possible.

Road bikes are quick twitch by their very nature, compared to a MTB on the road at least. As a few other shave said don't worry about getting on the drops yet, yes when on them you'll have more control, but if getting there is an issue, then concentrate on your position on the hoods, relax your arms and bend slightly, don't have them straight and rigid as this will impact how your body absorbs the bumps in the road.

I also still get scared going down hill.

weeksy - Member

I did 500 roadie bike miles last year, hated the handling and sold it. Put commuter rubber on my 29 HT spare wheels and the bike handles great

You've mentioned on pretty much every road bike thread you don't like it or get it so why keep posting when you've got nothing to help the OP?

For what it's worth, I've done 500 miles this month on my road bike and it feels perfectly natural and part of me. Switching between tops, hoods and drops just happens with out thinking. It's like everything new, it will feel a bit alien to start with but practice makes perfect. As others have said, get the fit right and everything else just falls into place.

Two words: 'compact drops' - bars that give less height difference between tops and drops. Means they're easier to use and, in turn, means you tend to use them far more. Made a big difference to me at least.

Otherwise, yes, you'll get more confident with more riding - 30 miles is nothing in road bike terms - and used to riding in an alien position. Other equipment things that made a difference to me were Conti GP4000S in the black chilli compound, which give proper grip wet or dry and Swisstop Green brake pads that actually worked in the wet.

It took me quite a while to get confident on a road bike - riding in the Alps helps a lot with descending, simply because there's so much more of it - and I think what you're going through is pretty normal, it's just that people forget how it felt when they started off on the road.

Plus what Will above says, being relaxed will help a lot with making the bike feel less twitchy. I used to really tense up in strong, gusty sidewinds, now I just accept that the bike moves around a bit and accept it.

Disagree with a few on here, I don't think riding a road bike is easy if you're not used to it

+1. As a lifetime mtber, it took me a few hundred miles to get used to it. I don't give it a second thought now, and love fast road descending.

The OP sounds like a bike fit would be money well spent.

How long till I get confident

You've mentioned on pretty much every road bike thread you don't like it or get it so why keep posting when you've got nothing to help the OP?

His question was, how long till I get confidence.

My answer was that he wouldn't, they're just horrible,

How is that not helping ? it's giving an honest assessment of my own situation. Just because you think he can/will get confident doesn't mean he actually will.

Just ride more, it does take a while to get used to the cornering in particular. But it does happen.

It's not as twitchy as it feels, if that helps!

🙂

OP I had similarish issues and was savaged by the roadfashionista's of STW suffering for my art 8)

One of my issues I found went away by swapping FSA30's for Ultegra wheels on GP4000's and latex tubes.

Riding on other road bikes though- the frame I'm on isn't the best but then it was 'designed' by someone..

I think road-race bikes are an acquired taste in their handling. There's always been a demand to make them 'feel fast', so they verge on twitchy by nature. What works in a bunch or for racing isn't the nicest feel for many riders at downhill speed on typical UK roads. Largely a case of getting used to it, going back a few years I used to hit 50 on local hills on a typical 73 parallel race geometry bike with 23Cs. Feels quite on-the-edge trying that now after getting used to a more general-use road set up.

One of my issues

😀

They all sorted now hora?

Could you post a picture of your bike, and perhaps with you sat on it?

Might be a good opportunity to see if there is anything glaringly wrong with your setup. A free internet bikefit, kind of 😆

Having said that if I posted a picture of my setup i'd probably get laughed at.

They all sorted now hora?

yip

What bike is it, OP? There's a massive difference in the handling characteristics of different raod bikes from endurance and comfort for all-day rides to twitchy and stiff for racing. Assuming you bought a bike that is appropriate to the kind of rding you do, you'd be well advised to go to a good LBS and get a bike fit session. Serious shops like Hewitts in Leyland will charge £50 for this but it's money well spent, especially as you can expect to be spending much longer on the roadie than you would on a mountain bike.

Don't get hung up on tyre or other component choices if you're only doing 30-50miles. Apaprt from the saddle (which you'll know if its wrong pretty quickly) you can adapt to most things, and all but the worst tyres are fine, I've got £13 tyres on one bike and £40 on the other, yes theres a difference, yes the £40 tyres are nicer, but both only slip on the same stuff (ironwork, overbanding, debris), it's like having Dura Ace shifters, they're very nice, but 105 doesn't stop your riding.

Set the saddle for comfortable pedaling, there're plenty of resuts on google, but the rule of thumb is pain behind the knee then the saddle is too high or too far forewards (so move it down [b]OR[/b] back in 5mm incraments), if the front hurnts then move it up [b]OR[/b] forwards. One small adjustment at a time untill your comfortable. When the saddles the right height then your hips should be perfectly still, keep going untill it's perfect, 2mm one way or the other will make a difference when you start doing 100miles+.

Raise the stem to start with, as a rule the lower the body position the more front end grip you have as long as your elbows are bent to act as suspension, so concnentrate on bent elbows, doing core strength exercises to help you hold the position with your core muscles NOT your arms. Start using the drops on the flat for short periods, then longer and longer as you get stronger and more comfortable and start using them on faster decents.

At 5ft10 a 54 with a 100mm stem is probably right, it'll feel long to start with but you'll get used to it and probably actualy start looking at longer stems or bigger frames.

If you're wobbling when changing from hoods to drops, look up at where you're going not at the bars and move both hands instantly and at the same time, don't try to ride allong with one hand on the drops and one on the top. And as above, core strength is key, you should be putting almost no weight through your hands normaly, just lean on the bars in corners to weight the front wheel.

My answer was that he wouldn't, they're just horrible,

How is that not helping ? it's giving an honest assessment of my own situation. Just because you think he can/will get confident doesn't mean he actually will.

See you keep saying that road bikes are horrible but strangely the majority find them fine. Doesn't this make you suspect that not all road bikes can be horrible to ride and perhaps it was something related to your specific set up?

If even Hora can get used to riding a road bike then anyone can, it just takes a bit of setting up and practice.

A slight thread hi-jack if I may, as I'm also new to road biking and this thread is very much of interest.

When will my arse begin to feel normal again?

On any of my mountain bike saddles or at spin classes, I never felt any discomfort. Two weeks in on the road bike, and my backside is still hurting. I find after 40 mins my backside is really getting uncomfortable. Is it just a case of time and allowing my sit bones to get used to the feeling or should I be thinking about my bike fit? I am reasonably central over the saddle and not over stretching for the bars. I am using padded shorts and chamois cream too.

I have no ventured out onto the road yet, but working away on the turbo so probably spending more time in the saddle.

Whilst there are a lot of suggestions of changing this that or the other, you've only ridden 30 miles on a new bike.
I would suggest riding ten, or twenty times that before thinking about spending money on changing anything.

There are adjustments you can make that are free and just take time.
Is the saddle at the correct height for you?
Here's a chunk of info on BC- [url= http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insightzone/equipment_and_set_up/position_on_the_bike/article/izn20130322-Getting-your-ride-position-right-0 ]Insight Zone[/url]

Then there's adjustments you can make to the brakes: use the knurled knob on the top of the caliper to increase or reduce the amount of lever pull required to actuate the calipers. FWIW unlike MTB disc brakes it's often better to have slightly more lever travel so you can modulate the feel of the brakes from the hoods or drops.

As for riding on the drops/hoods/tops that's normally a situational thing and unless you are sprinting, descending* or trying to hold an aero position** then normally you will be on the tops or hoods.

Stick at it and don't be afraid to take some tools with you to stop and adjust whilst you are out. Keep a note of the basic measurements to start with and go from there.***

*lower centre of gravity and better position for braking.
**although recent research has suggested arms flat from the hoods back is more aero than on the drops due to lower frontal area.
*** BB to top of saddle height vertically, Nose of saddle to centre of bars horizontally, nose of saddle to TT vertically

You need to speak to a few experienced road cyclists in person. contact your local road club or shop and ask for advice. Most road clubs these days have a webpage or facebook group so it's fairly easy to judge if they are a friendly group by introducing yourself and taking it from there. My offer was not that of a paid service, but I see you're probably too far from me (Nr Edinburgh). I'm happy to help out any newbie, inexperienced/nervous riding on the road is downright dangerous and the less injured cyclists the better in my book. Also, your cycling just won't be enjoyable if you're not comfortable and confident on the road.

There is plenty poor and some terrible advice on this thread already.
Sorry to make an example of the guy who said it, but no one can tell if your bike is too long from simply asking how straight your elbows are as it doesn't take into account anything else. ie. how upright you are sat, saddle/bar position etc. A lot of newbies ride sat up like Mary Poppins as they lack flexibility and core strength needed to be comfortable in even a slightly tucked position. As for recommendations of changing tyres/wheels/frames etc. sorry, but these people just don't have a clue and are just justifying the slight improvement their purchases made to them.

Oh, and well done Kryton. 🙄

[quote=davieg ]
I have no ventured out onto the road yet, but working away on the turbo so probably spending more time in the saddle.
Two completely different things IMHO. I find using a turbo or exercise bike really uncomfortable. When actually riding the bike it's moving more underneath you so there's less discomfort.

You will be fine, there are loads of "pointers" people can give you, but in reality just riding will get you most of the way there, so stick at it.

However they are still scary sometimes. 52+ mph in the wet leaning all the way over the rear getting a speed wobble on, made me wonder why I wasn't wearing a full face helmet and leathers.

(Pork hill descent on Dartmoor for anyone wanting a go)

What are you doing in April?
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/touring-weekend-anyone

I have no ventured out onto the road yet, but working away on the turbo so probably spending more time in the saddle.

That'll be 90% of the problem. Even my most comfortable saddle gets painfull on the turbo. Are you using sufferfest or trainerroad, you need something to get you out of the saddle regulalry. Even just a stopwatch and tell yourself to stand up for 6 seconds every minute.

The other 10% might be (or probably is) the saddle. You need to consider everything from the width of your sit bones, how you move arround (Selle Italia SLR for example is flat, the flite is bowed in the middle, the flatter the saddle the less pressure it puts on you when edging forwards/back), how much your pelvis is rotated as an anterior tilt (caused by sitting in a office chair or a sofa too much) puts pressure on your notcher, more tilt means bigger cut outs in the saddle, whereas perfect posture would mean a more conventional saddle. Have a google and get a few nearly new saddles of ebay and work out what you like by elimination.

As a MTB rider and roadie, I find road riding easy, as I'm comfortable with a bike moving around under me.
I dont use the drops, unless battling into a head wind or TTing
I use Michelin Pro 4s The best FACT
Just ride like your on a MTB Even is this weather descending is a buzz 🙂 🙂 got a PB on Monday on a 1.5 mile descent 70th out of 5,000 next time KOM 🙂
Oh and if I can do it as a pensioner so can you

I use Michelin Pro 4s The best FACT

I used to think that!

These are a lot better: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/tyres-twinpack-deals-veloflex-corsa-twinpack2/velxtyrf351

globalti - Member

I will be needing some new tyres in a month or so
Are they that much better ?
How do the 25s come up size wise against a Pro 4 as I have tight clearance on my Addict. ?

Careful with the mileage on those Veloflex. 1,800 miles for a rear is very low.

Broken record, but GP4000s are great tyres.

Sorry to make an example of the guy who said it, but no one can tell if your bike is too long from simply asking how straight your elbows are as it doesn't take into account anything else

Well thanks, but the OP also confirmed that his arms were outstretched when riding on the hoods. Hence, without seeing him on the bike, it is reasonable to assume that control is limited and the bike will feel twitchy, and that he would benefit from closer and/or higher bars in the first instance.

I once coached a beginner who came to me with a new bike and a fit from an established shop. Her arms were so outstretched on the drops she could no turn the bike safely in a U turn in the road. Her stem was 20 cm too long and she'd been sold the wrong size bike. It took two falls and once beginner's club ride for her to learn that.

I agree about not changing kit, set up first, including the possible purchase or swap of a stem, Tyres and tubes later. As confidence, fitness and flexibility improve, a longer lower position may be more appropriate.

Thanks TINA and Scotroutes.

I am using Trainerroad and I do sit at a desk. Far easier, simpler and cheaper to stand up every so often and will try that first. I still expect it is going to take some time to get used to the new saddle and riding positions, but not going to suffer indefinitely.

I might try out my Spoon first before testing out other saddles.

@davieg
I have a spoon on one road bike, and 2 MTBs if they are comfy for you use it.If you want a road specific saddle then the Charge Knife is just as good s the Spoon

it's not reasonable for any of us to assume anything from such a vague description, Tired. That's kinda my point.

I might try out my Spoon first before testing out other saddles.

I put mine on my winter bike as a stopgap last year, and it's staying put now.

Get your arse measured. I've got wide sitbones. From memory I went with a 150wide(?) saddle after being measured. Surprised me.

Are they that much better ?
How do the 25s come up size wise against a Pro 4 as I have tight clearance on my Addict. ?

The Veloflex Open Corsas are really superb tyres. I will never go back to any other tyre now; they ride super-smooth and more than anything, the bike feels much more secure on them; it feels more "planted" and more secure in corners. The rubber is very sticky and the file pattern makes them even grippier. They do cut up easily and the file pattern will wear smooth in a few hundred miles but I'm prepared to live with that for the quality of the ride. Others might not find them robust enough but for the hooligan bike they're a great choice.

I use the 23s and they are no bigger than my Michelin Pro 4s were. I'd imagine that the 25s are only a tiny bit fatter.

Gonna try again this evening. I know I'll need a bike fit eventually. But I think most of the wobble is due to my newbiness.
As I wobbled when I first got back on a mountain bike since childhood in 2009.

Weather permitting I'm gonna get up early Sunday and find some quiet roads and go for a blast.

Picked a rubbish evening for my first ride, breezy, wet and dark. Want to use it to ride to places Like I do on my motorbike.

Gonna try again this evening.

If you're nervous with the handling and it's as windy as it is down here that may not be a great idea!

Sack that just been outside. I'm leaving my motorbike at work also. Very windy with sleet. Train it is. See how it is at the weekend.

A very wise decision. I've been riding road bikes for over ten years and I am glad mine is staying in the shed tonight.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the-anatomy-of-bike-position

I like Steve Hogg. Search for him on Youtube, there are a few videos on bike fitting worth watching.