So first up I’ll confess. I’ve never riden a road bike abd usually see roads as a way to get from trail to trail.
But this summer we are going back to the Isle of Arran and having done some of the amazing mountain biking I quite fancy trying the whole loop of the inland. I can borrow a road bike (will prob still have my flat pedals and baggy shirts!). But no idea if it’s doable.
the round Arran loop is 90km long and 1200m height gain. Is this a tough day in a road bike? In context a big day on my mountain bike would be 50km and a similar height gain.
We’re staying on the island so no rushing for ferries and it’s July so almost 18hrs of daylight! Does this sound feasible?
Thanks
It depends largely on the terrain - 1200m in 90km isn't a very hilly ride, 1.3% average, and assuming you are start and finishing at the same point that means 1200m of descent as well.
But that 1.3% average could be a constant undulation, where you can drop down a few gears and spin up aerobically, or largely flat followed by steep bastard granny gear anaerobic that depletes resources and leaves you worn out.
But if you can do 1200m in a 50km MTB (off road) ride then I suspect you'll piss this.
Think the only tough bit (if you can do 50km day of proper off road) will be the wind and the weather!
Riding a road bike on a road is sooooo much easier than riding a MTB off road. You'll do it easily. But then you'll have to buy a road bike because you'll have a taste for it. Then you'll have to buy a summer road bike, then a winter road bike, then a gravel bike for routes that involve fire roads. Etc. etc.
It’s 2.6% average up and 2.6% average down
But overall not much hillier than Bedfordshire
If you can pedal the 5 hours i think you’ll be fine
I did the Arran loop a couple of years ago when I was just starting to ride longer on the road on my gravel bike. It was a very blustery day, with heavy showers..... The southern third was a bit of a struggle, flew up the west with a tail gale. My moving time was under four and a half hours, but it was leisurely - three cafe stops, bit of photo time as well and seal watching! Road surface is variable, I was glad of 45mm tyres. It's a beautiful day out, you'll manage easily if you can do 50k gays on the MTB day I'd say.
Going clockwise there's one long hill coming out of Lochranza. It's about 2.5 miles long with an average gradient of around 5%. There's a tea shack in Lochranza that you can stop at before the hill.
As above - I think you'll find 90km on a road bike to be significantly easier than 50km on an MTB. However, I'd suggest investing in some cheap Decathlon lycra (at least the shorts) as you might start to get a bit uncomfortable in baggies.
Riding a road bike on a road is sooooo much easier than riding a MTB off road. You'll do it easily. But then you'll have to buy a road bike because you'll have a taste for it. Then you'll have to buy a summer road bike, then a winter road bike, then a gravel bike for routes that involve fire roads. Etc. etc.
This.
As for your original question, assuming no horrible weather, the distance and climbing looks like a decent road ride I'd do in the Surrey Hills. I'm sure I'd be far more beat after a 50Km mtb ride with similar climbing numbers.
Oh, and if you have it wear lycra and use clip in pedals, both are so much better and more comfortable for riding long road distances in (baggies flapping around on a road ride are horrible).
I’d say 4hr pedalling for that road ride although wind plays more of an issue on road rides.
slogged 40km in 3.5hrs in the mud yesterday in the MTB. Harder than a 65km road ride for sure
Arran on a good road bike is one of my favourites and if your feeling fit do the string road from the West side of the island, great views and will give your heart and lungs a work out
4000ft in 56 miles is hillier than average, but nothing crazy. Anything over 50ft per mile is a bit lumpy, once you get to 100ft in 1 mile then that's what I would regard as a proper hilly ride. Plan for a cafe stop or similar at 30 miles and you'll be grand.
Imo thats a fair amount of climbing. However its about what i have been doing a day in NZ on a flat bar gravel bike.
Arran is what I'd call "lumpy", the southern half in particular.
Nice coastal road although around Brodick can get a bit busy if it's ferry time. I've only ever done the complete circuit anti-clockwise, just under 4hrs even with a cafe stop. If you take it steady, have a pub stop for lunch etc it'd be a lovely relaxed full day ride. Unless it's raining or really windy in which case it could be hell on earth... 😉
As a rule of thumb I always reckon 1 off-road mountain bike mile equals 2.5 road-bike miles. But I wouldn't wear baggies on anything smoother than a gravel bike and I wouldn't enjoy flat pedals that far. Not just power transfer but also hot-spots on the balls of your feet.
Riding around Arran is great. Don’t underestimate the climbs though. It’s the relentlessness of the southern hills - you climb, descend to the sea, repeat.
I prefer to get this over with and ride it clockwise. Up the west coast is flat and the only real climb after that is from Lochranza. After that you get an incredible descent (>50mph if you’re keen) down to the east coast and flat back to Brodick.
it’s a great day out. If you’re feeling fit, do the figure of 8 taking in the String road.
I’ll definitely be doing it clockwise - we’re staying in Lamlash so will get the lumpy southern section out of way first
plenty of food options - the Lagg distillery, Shiskine golf club, Machrie tea rooms, the amazing sandwich kiosk in Lochranza, the other distillery…..!
Thanks everyone. We’ve fallen in love with Arran and I’ve climbed up most of it, and ridden a fair few off road trails so fancied a changed. Looks doable
As a rule of thumb I always reckon 1 off-road mountain bike mile equals 2.5 road-bike miles
A bloke I used to ride with who was big into power meter data thought about 3 to 1, I reckon that's for poor off-road conditions. I'd agree probably 2.5 on average.
You'll certainly piss 90km off road OP, but if you have/are used to clip less, I'd take them for a purely road ride.
I just read flat pedals that would be torture and baggy shorts a definite no for me. I remember staying at Shannochie cottages on the south side of the island and the 14 miles to Brodick there and back a few times was undulating but if the weather is good not quite Mallorca but really good
I was there spring 2013 a week after the west of the island was hit with 20' snow drifts with huge generators brought in to power the place yet the East side was untouched. Maybe the reason it gets called Scotland in minature
As someone who rides a lot of road, gravel and MTB - speed and conditions are the leveler. MTB is about intervals and if it's too tough you stop, slow or relax. Road isn't - you keep going and your legs (and mind) get used to a certain speed and as such it can be relentless. Factor in a head or even a sidewind (many of which are mitigated on the MTB) and it can be VERY tiring. I can easily do 30-50km on my MTB and my lower back might feel it, but my legs will be fine, but 100km, at speed (>30kph and solo) on my road/gravelbike will leave my legs really feeling it.
Flat compared to Peaks - they average 100ft per mile. 56 miles on a road bike should be done in 4 hours if fit, similar to 4 hours on the MTB, but you'll cover less than half the distance.
Me and the mates are road/MTB riders, and we always under estimate the time it takes off road to get somewhere. 40 miles, yeh be there in 4 hours off road. Nope, more like 7-8 hours !
My rule of thumb is whatever I can do off-road I can double on road. It seems to comfortably work and I'm no racing snake.
However the type of climbing makes a difference. When I did the bealach na bah, the big climb was easy, just sit and spin. No drama. But the relentless ups and downs along the coast are very tiring and way tougher than a steady 1000m of ascent. So pace yourself and prepare mentally for that. But it's a fab ride arran, enjoy the epic scenery
Sounds a great ride - enjoy. I'd not worry about the distance.
I think I'd worry more about a 4+ hour ride on an unfamiliar bike with a position and contact points you're not used to. Strikes me that if you started getting sore back / hands / etc. it would rapidly make it miserable. Can you get a few rides in on the borrowed bike ahead of time to get used to it?
As someone who has done the loop round the island, assuming the weather is ok and there's no mental head winds, it's a real easy loop in terms of climbs etc. so I wouldn't worry about it if you're used to big days on a MTB. You'll enjoy it.
I'm going to mirror what Big John and Fossy say. I work on a road bike ride being 2.5 times the distance for the equivalent mtb ride.
I'm on the South edge of the Peaks (Belpershire). 30 miler on the mtb would be like 70+ miles on the road bike - and I avoid the A6 like the plague, so am usually cutting across the grain on a road ride - I work on 1000ft per 10 miles on a road ride heading into the Peaks. 70 miler >>> 7000 ft climbing on the road bike.
The only caveat is assuming you're not loading up the road bike like you're touring with panniers and other such clutter.
Enjoy Arran.
A long time ago we did a scout summer camp on Arran.
Sit up and beg bikes were rented and we cycled the bottom half of the island. Absolutely drowned in the rain. At one point a probably Italian man jumped out of a car, shouted at us to get our attention, took a photo and then drove off laughing.
This had all taken longer than planned (I remember endless sharp dips in the roads for streams that chewed your strength on the crap bikes), and as a good 75% of the scouts were stewing in the back of the van it was decided to cut short the circumnavigation by going over the string.
4 lads made it to the top (I was second, I had 3 paper rounds). On the way down mad mark zipped up his snorkel hoodie (must have weighed 3 stone with water) and overtook a 2CV, leader John's (chemist for vimto), fag self combusted in about 10 seconds.
My brother fell off his bike at some traffic lights because he was too tired to take his feet off the pedals. Another lad slipped into the cess pit because his knees give way.
My dad (gsl), said it was on a par with the camp at RAF Sealand and the day when we took on the assault course (Leader John crushed his knackers that day).
IMO there isn't really a correlation you can draw between road and off-road miles. They're very different.
I'd happily go out and ride 200km tomorrow on the road. You just jump on the bike and start pedaling in Z1/2 and the miles tick over quickly. You get tired and they keep ticking over. You get exhausted and they keep ticking over. And then 7 hours later you've done 200k. Beyond a really basic fitness level any roadie could probably do a 200km ride, it's just a case of pedaling and fueling.
I did 25km off road on Sunday with 400m of climbing and it almost broke me. The constant up and down, climbs of ~2min at Z4, recover slightly, repeat. And it's not even a constant 2min, it's a few seconds of really high torque, back off, threshold, another sprint, etc. Then once you run out of energy you're bollocksed, Z2 just won't get you up a technical climb unless you're super fit.
Gravel Vs Road is about a 1:1.6 IME, i.e. km of smooth trail feels like a mile of road. But that assumes it's the sort of ride where pedaling smoothly is possible.
Roadie going off-road struggle.with the constant fluctuations in output. It's very difficult to replicate that on road (it's more like a team pursuit in a velodrome) MTBers on the road fare better but you just need to learn to economise your efforts. If you try and attack a hill like you would off-road you'll blow up when you find that after 30s-2min there is no rest and there's another 20min at threshold to go. Just ride a bit easier than you would expect. Pick a pace that gets you up hills easily and consistently rather than out of breath. You might get up a hill once in 25min at 160bpm, but you'll be dead in an hour. Get up in 30min at 140bpm and you can repeat it indefinitely all day.
Just remember that you tend to.move around less on a road bike, so your arse will feel it before your legs do.
Jeezo, it’s all getting a bit techy with Z2/Z4 and heart rate chat.
I managed it aged 11 on my Raleigh Equipe. It’s not that hard. Take it easy, enjoy the scenery and the café stops.
Anti clockwise might be better because you get to the distillery after you have done the biggest hill!
All I'd add (I live there) is, check the wind direction and go whichever way is with the wind on the west side of the island. It can be fairly brutal riding the flat west coast into a strong headwind. Oh, and as mentioned above don't underestimate the "flat" south. of the island.
Road isn't - you keep going and your legs (and mind) get used to a certain speed and as such it can be relentless
You can slow down and take a rest on a road bike as well tho 😉 Coffee and cake is half the reason for going out on the road bike
I'd happily go out and ride 200km tomorrow on the road. You just jump on the bike and start pedaling in Z1/2 and the miles tick over quickly. You get tired and they keep ticking over. You get exhausted and they keep ticking over. And then 7 hours later you've done 200k. Beyond a really basic fitness level any roadie could probably do a 200km ride, it's just a case of pedaling and fueling.
I think you might be underestimating your own/your peers' level of fitness there. That's around 30kmph average speed - I'm not in a club but I think if you are averaging that then you'd be be getting put in with the fast group.
1200m in 90km isn't a very hilly ride, 1.3% average,
!!!
200k in 7 hrs is tough going and needs a pretty good level of fitness
17/18 mph over 3 hrs you're fairly fit and that's on easy terrain Arran has a few ups and downs
haha, yea maybe I was optimistic. 8hrs moving time maybe.
I'd still say 200k is an achievable target for most cycling people. It's about as far as you can ride in a full day whilst riding as slowly as possible. And really distance riding on the road is all about the discipline of going slowly. If your average speed is 265kmh over 2 hours then the jump to 30kmh is a fairly dedicated amount of training, ride consistently all summer and you might make it then you have to carry on through the winter to not lose it again. But drop the effort level just slightly and you can probably sustain that pace all day.
It's why clubruns tend to split into 3 or 4 groups. Clinging onto the 27-30kmh group is easy for an hour, but would kill me much longer, 25-27 on the other hand feels sociable unless I'm on the front, it's just a case of munching flapjack and drinking water.
Just remember that you tend to.move around less on a road bike, so your arse will feel it before your legs do.
Especially on a borrowed bike 😶
1200m in 90km isn't a very hilly ride, 1.3% average,
!!!
One of my favorite 100km rides through West Berks / Oxfordshire is basically flat for the first 40km then manages most of it's 1000m climbing in the Chilterns. Even our weekly pub ride manages ~500m of climbing in 90-100min, and that's SE England! If the OP's in Scotland he'll be use to far worse.
I'm currently having anxiety over the thought of back to back 3500-4000m days this summer 😂
I think I'd worry more about a 4+ hour ride on an unfamiliar bike with a position and contact points you're not used to. Strikes me that if you started getting sore back / hands / etc. it would rapidly make it miserable.
I don't agree with that. Anecdotally, I was doing a 60 mile charity ride and discovered a crack in the head tube on my bike a couple of days before so I just borrowed my brother's bike (which was too big for me) and did it without any issue – and that was riding at a fast pace with the 'quick' group too.
I'd expect to do that kind of distance/altitude gain in four hours here in West Lancs, if conditions were fairly decent.
I get too bored to do much more than that on a road bike, but I'd class it as a medium-to-long ride, not a "big day out" unless, as others have said, conditions are poor.
I get too bored to do much more than that on a road bike, but I'd class it as a medium-to-long ride, not a "big day out" unless, as others have said, conditions are poor.
The challenge may be after the distillery visit when conditions become hazy.
Biggest issue will be the position if you havent ridden a road bike before. Fitness wise you'll be grand
Someone alluded to fact any semi fit roadie can ride 200km but I disagree. Even when very fit I struggled to do more than 150. Not because of the fitness, but because of discomfort. My legs would be fine, but my neck, back, arse would be goosed.
Have fun!
A long time ago we did a scout summer camp on Arran.
Sit up and beg bikes were rented and we cycled the bottom half of the island. Absolutely drowned in the rain. At one point a probably Italian man jumped out of a car, shouted at us to get our attention, took a photo and then drove off laughing.
This had all taken longer than planned (I remember endless sharp dips in the roads for streams that chewed your strength on the crap bikes), and as a good 75% of the scouts were stewing in the back of the van it was decided to cut short the circumnavigation by going over the string.
4 lads made it to the top (I was second, I had 3 paper rounds). On the way down mad mark zipped up his snorkel hoodie (must have weighed 3 stone with water) and overtook a 2CV, leader John's (chemist for vimto), fag self combusted in about 10 seconds.
My brother fell off his bike at some traffic lights because he was too tired to take his feet off the pedals. Another lad slipped into the cess pit because his knees give way.
My dad (gsl), said it was on a par with the camp at RAF Sealand and the day when we took on the assault course (Leader John crushed his knackers that day).
You didn't happen to go to 1st Cheadle Hulme scouts did you Saccades?
There's a distillery at each end of the island now - might make things harder.
Just in terms of eating / drinking on the ride, a note of caution....
A few years ago a group of us did a loop around the Isle of Wight (fantastic route), mixed abilities so not a full on heads down ride. We'd planned a lunch stop at a cafe, but as it was a nice day the cafe was rammed so we ended up at the pub as it has space. Service was slow so we had a couple of pints, and menu was limited so the lightest meal was either mussels or a burger. Couple of lunch beers on a hot day and a larger than required meal meant I felt terrible on the bike for a good while in the afternoon, not ideal as we had a fair way still to go, and IoW is deceptively lumpy.
I'd definitely wait for space at the cafe and settle for a sandwich and slice of cake (and no beers until the end) next time.
As a relatively new road cyclist, this is only my second year. I've done many rides north of 100 km and my standard long ride is about 160 to 180 km. These are done in about 6 hours which gives you enough time to stop for the toilet and to munch in energy bar. What I have found is that when you break the 200 km mark, it's a whole different ball game..... My longest ride so far is 250 km and I have to say that wasn't a relaxing ride. The last 30 km really required mental focus. Also, whilst you can be quite lax with refuelling on the shorter rides when you get the longer ones you need to set your timer so that you are fuelling every 30 minutes on the minute... On the 250 km ride I had planned to refuel every 60 km which is way too long but what made it worse is I pushed out to 90 km on the way home as I wanted to be north of the river before I sat down and ate. I have boinked several times but I've never ever boinked in the middle of a ride - I'll never do that again!
My rule of thumb is to base it purely on climbing. There will be exceptions at the extremes, and a difference in undulating terrain vs doing 1 mountain climb and descent; but if you can do 1200m climbing on a mtb ride, you can do it on a road bike.
Distance differential 90 vs 50, you'll probably take about the same amount of time too.
