Road tyres- any reason to not go tubeless?

Less air to keep them inflated after a leak, skinny rims and road tyres can be a bit more challenging to fit

That being said, I'm giving it a go for casual riding

I've found road tubeless more faff than on the MTB and the tyres are not cheap, it really comes down to whether tubes are causing you issues.

Road tubeless is fine with 28c plus tyres (ideally 30c and above).

But it's definitely a more marginal gain than gravel set-up and it can be a PITA if the tyres and wheels aren't spot on. It seems less tolerant than MTB / gravel set-up, put it that way.

Skinnier tyres, higher pressures, less volume of sealant = more of a PITA

I've also been considering it, even though I don'y typically suffer from punctures, but I've seen/been part of a bit of roadside faff when the sealant hasn't done it's job so I remain to be convinced. I'll likely try TPU tubes for a while though.

Depends on the tyre a bit and then also the sealant dependant on whether or not the tyre has porous sidewalls.  Specialized Mondo for example piss air out of the sidewall,  Stan's is useless on them and doesn't seal the sidewall so they lose 10+ psi overnight. Stan's in a Continental GP 5000 - not so much of a problem apart from it may not seal fully but will get you home albeit covered in sealant.

I'm currently running some 30mm Vittoria Corsa Pros with Silca sealant after a recommendation from my LBS and they have setup very nicely and lose very little air. Not had a puncture yet so can't comment in that regard. OKO sealant sounds like it will cover all bases though so I'd be tempted to try that next if the Silca turns out to be garbage... YMMV

I used to, but I’ve switched to TPU tubes after my last latex shower.

Works well just like with bigger tyres until you get a messy puncture then it can be a bugger to plug. High pressure, narrow tyres to get a worm in, etc.

I just use skinny tubes with a bit of fluid in.

I’ve been using 28mm Hutchinson Fusion all season tyres set up tubeless with their own sealant for about 6-7 years now and only had to call for a lift twice in that time. I have found them easy to fit and set up without any problems, they seal well for common punctures like thorns and only failed when the tyre was cut.

For balance, I have a couple of riding mates who have tried but gone back to tubes because of bad experiences. I think a lot depends on whether you get many punctures on the road or not?

Probably looking at Michelin Power Cup, Specialized Turbo or the popular but pricier GP5000 S (or AR)

I carry spare tubes anyway and a DIY tyre boot so happy to tackle a messy repair if I have to. I use OKO sealant at the moment..

Are the TPU tubes the same as the ones that some take out on MTB rides as a vet you home option? I thought they were quite fragile but perhaps I'm wrong?

I'd turn the question around and ask 'any reason to GO tubeless'?

On road specifically I think you need a reason, clearly lots of glass or thorn punctures is a good reason, I still wince if I'm riding summer (tubed) road bike and realise it's Hawthorne trimming season, but otherwise you can go lighter and faster with a tubed setup, and fixing a puncture is probably less faff and mess overall and at least you know it's fixed first time.

I'm committed to tubeless on the gravel bike but on the rare occasion I puncture (usually hitting the rim, hard, and pinching the sidewall) there's the usual game of has it sealed, has it not while I put off the inevitable insertion of a tube to get me home.

60k miles training and racing on tubeless over the past 5 years and good tubeless tyres are getting more expensive and seemingly more fragile to boot. I'm back to racing on Gp5000 clinchers with latex or TPU tubes, which have significantly tougher carcasses than GP5000 STR and can be had for £30-£35 if you shop around. With latex tubes CRR is within a W per wheel.

I've often thought it might be worth trying on the front first. I tend to run lower pressures on the front anyway, with my lardy arse over the back I tend to wear the rears out faster and get more flats, the ride/comfort benefits might be more useful for arms/neck/shoulders from the front.

But I've also gotten on OK with TPU, and there's definitely benefits to a higher tpi tyre and TPU tubes over butyl IMO/IME.

Maybe if I spot some decent Tubeless tyres going at an affordable price in 32mm, but otherwise I'm not sure I'm bothered enough currently. It doesn't feel like I'm missing out on many road bike gainz...

I tried it but it never sealed and just pissed sealant all over me and my bike. On both occasions I ended up having to put a tube in which is just a massive faff. Probably my choice of tyres and sealant but it's expensive to chop and change to try and find a good solution. Just went back to tubes, easy to sort out, in my experience quicker and much cheaper. If I'm honest I don't even really notice much difference in feel either.

I'm also in the tube camp on the road.

Lower pressures, better grip could be a positive. Punctures on the road with decent tyres are few and far between - maybe a couple a year for me even when I was doing 15,000km. It was always easy to just swap a tube over - I don't see plugging and topping up the air as a massive improvement.

Tubeless off road works well. The few times it has let me down has been more urban settings. It tends not to seal very well when there are small cuts, particularly if there is glass or stone still in the tyre.

I'd recommend avoiding tubeless on the road road completely if you're heavy and prefer narrower tyres (28mm or less). And even if you are using wider tyres but are a heavy enough rider that you still require relatively high pressures. Tubeless sealant just doesn't seal holes well at high pressures.
Otherwise crack on. Although it's still debatable whether there's any real real benefit. Especially with nice lightweight mess free TPU tubes. And ultimately you're still going to have to take at least one spare tube with you anyway

I run tubeless on the MTB's and my gravel bike

I did run tubeless on the road bike with 28mm tyres for a year before converting back to tubes

Reasons as follows

When road tubeless punctures at 70 psi it tends to spray sealant all over the back of the bike and all up the back of my expensive bib shorts and jersey which is near immpossible to remove when you get home as its dried in

If the sealant cant seal the hole and you fit a bacon strip i found they can also not stay in due to the high pressures involved

If you cant get the hole to seal and you have to fit a tube by the side of the road its a masssive messy faff, you get covered in sealant, your wheel and tyre gets covered in sealant, you try and wipe most of it off on the grass but you wont get it all so your bar tape becomes sticky

When you make it home you have to go through the whole process again to fix the tyre properly with a plug so more mess, then clean all the sealant off the frame, wheel and tyre and finally try and get it out of £300 worth of lycra kit

Love tubelss on the MTB and gravel bike as they are low pressure systems but not on the road bike, only run TPU tubes on the road bike now

I’ve been running tubeless on the road for over 10y and 60-70k km.  In that time I’ve had only 4 punctures which didn’t seal themselves (albeit at a lower pressure) and only 1 for which I removed the wheel to plug.  Even in that case I could’ve done it on the bike, but I was at work and thought I’d do it indoors.  I haven’t used a road inner tube in over 11 years.  I’ve given a few away to people I’ve found stranded on my commutes/rides, but not needed one myself.

My rides are a mix of city, town l, cycle path, b-road and a-road along with a lot of country lanes.

Interestingly - I’ve had more punctures with the newer S-TR than the older TL of the GP5000.  I may go for the all road variants later.

My TLs were ran down to the canvas (over 8000km) and still weren’t getting punctured.

I’d turn the question around and ask ‘any reason to GO tubeless’?

imo, there's almost more reason to go tubeless on road than on mountain bikes.

The kind of punctures that you get on road are the kind where tubeless copes well - small holes from cuttings/glass or pinch flats. Rarely get sidewall gouges, which tubeless tends to fail at.

Lower pressures means more comfort - no suspension or anything else on road, so you're kinda relying on the tyres for a lot of the dampening of road buzz.

No tubes means lower rolling resistance - might not be much, but on a road bike, I'll take the free speed, that's sort of the point of being on a road bike.

Road tubeless is fine with 28c plus tyres (ideally 30c and above).

But it’s definitely a more marginal gain than gravel set-up and it can be a PITA if the tyres and wheels aren’t spot on. It seems less tolerant than MTB / gravel set-up, put it that way.

Basically this... And also...

I’d recommend avoiding tubeless on the road road completely if you’re heavy and prefer narrower tyres (28mm or less). And even if you are using wider tyres but are a heavy enough rider that you still require relatively high pressures. Tubeless sealant just doesn’t seal holes well at high pressures.
Otherwise crack on. Although it’s still debatable whether there’s any real real benefit. Especially with nice lightweight mess free TPU tubes. And ultimately you’re still going to have to take at least one spare tube with you anyway

This...

As someone who works for a tyre company, I spend a significant amount of my working life, educating customers on both the benefits and potential pitfalls of tubeless...

Regardless of what anybody tells you, the weakest link in any tubeless setup is always the tubeless sealant. There simply isn't a tubeless sealant on the market (and I've tried just about all of them) that works above about 45psi reliably. Above this pressure, it will tend to just squirt out of the hole that you want it to seal...

So ask yourself this... Are you OK nursing a tyre home with 45psi in...? If the answer is yes, then knock yourself out, go tubeless... If not, then it probably won't be for you, despite the benefits.

The rule of thumb I apply is the larger the tyre, the lighter the rider, hence the lower pressure you can run, the higher the benefits of tubeless... I'm 95kg these days, so I still need 75-80psi in a 28c tyre regardless of whether tubed/tubeless. So I don't bother with tubeless on the road myself, but someone who's 60kg might think it's fantastic in a 28c tyre as they are only running 50psi anyway and probably wouldn't really notice a 5psi loss if they picked up a small puncture...

It's worth noting that TPU tubes inside tube type tyres are generally lighter than tubeless tyres with sealant in, bring similar performance and rolling resistance benefits, and are a lot less hassle for most people on road bikes these days... That's the way I've gone! None of the drawbacks of latex tubes (and less than half the weight) too...

imo, there’s almost more reason to go tubeless on road than on mountain bikes.

Not quite sure how you reached this conclusion, but I'll say it again, the larger the tyre, the bigger the benefits of tubeless...

There simply isn’t a tubeless sealant on the market (and I’ve tried just about all of them) that works above about 45psi reliably. Above this pressure, it will tend to just squirt out of the hole that you want it to seal…

So ask yourself this… Are you OK nursing a tyre home with 45psi in…? If the answer is yes, then knock yourself out, go tubeless… If not, then it probably won’t be for you, despite the benefits.

Hmm, I typically run Orange Seal Endurance, and I think it'll normally seal well before 45 psi. But even if it did drop it to 45 psi, then surely that's still better/safer than 0 psi for the equivalent puncture on a tube, and after it seals, you just top it up? I'd way rather nurse a soft tyre to a safe spot than fix it on the side of a busy road or roll along on the rim.

Plenty of hardcore roadmen don't fancy it, which tells you it's not the no-brainer it is for MTB or gravel. Not just talking about the arlarse beardies, either - riders who understand tubeless but just don't get many punctures at all out on the open road, so don't see the need.

I'm tubeless on everything, but most of my road riding is urban / suburban commuting miles where I got a fair few punctures back in the day on tubes. Close to zero punctures with tubeless. It really depends on the state of your roads and what your current puncture situation is.

There are issues with sealing at high pressure - but I've had a 23c tyre at 90 psi seal straight away on the TT bike. Was surprised but it can be done - obv a pretty small hole. A high pressure performing sealant would be a great product, but that sort of innovation is beyond the bike industry. Given it's not been ported over from another industry it may just be a hard problem to solve.

Hmm, I typically run Orange Seal Endurance, and I think it’ll normally seal well before 45 psi. But even if it did drop it to 45 psi, then surely that’s still better/safer than 0 psi for the equivalent puncture on a tube, and after it seals, you just top it up? I’d way rather nurse a soft tyre to a safe spot than fix it on the side of a busy road or roll along on the rim.

Orangeseal Endurance is probably the best sealant I've used when it comes to actually sealing holes. The fact it dries out in 4-6 weeks, then needs clearing out (NOT topping up) and refreshing rules it out for most people, but if I was racing MTB, its ability to seal big holes effectively makes it number 1 in that respect...

Still doesn't seal effectively above about 45psi though. Not consistently at least... Not one sealant I've tried does! Worth noting that the vast majority of track pump pressure gauges are wildly inaccurate by the way...

Road tubeless was incorrectly sold/misinterpreted to/by the masses as the solution to all their punctures... The truth is that it's only a small performance benefit and a fair bit more hassle for most people. The lower pressures that you can run anyway, and the faster you are going (thus seeking more of a performance advantage potentially), the greater the benefit... For the vast majority of us on the Sunday morning coffee and cake social run, I tend to just recommend TPU tubes these days...

a fair bit more hassle for most people.

I guess I can see that point, especially from the view of having to actually support other people. It does take me a lot more effort to get road tubeless set up - it's worth it for me though.

Not quite sure how you reached this conclusion

Well... I did list reasons.

My VEL 50RL wheels came taped for tubeless and supplied tubeless valves, but while anywhere near my current 95Kg, there's no way I'd try tubeless even with 30mm tyres.

I've never liked soft rear tyres on my Cube Attain GTC Disc, but it has an aero brick 610mm stack, so more weight is over the rear wheel. At 95Kg, I'm using ~90PSI in the 30mm rear GP5000 in a latex tube and ~80PSI in the front 25mm Schwalbe One.

Latex tubes and GPS5000 aaaaaand relax.

I’d turn the question around and ask ‘any reason to GO tubeless’?

On road specifically I think you need a reason, clearly lots of glass or thorn punctures is a good reason,

This for me. I have used tubeless on winter bike with 32mm tyres and it has done the job. I can get home at a lower pressure and it's fine. On summer bike I have switched to ride now tpu tubes, despite some poor reviews about air loss mine have been great. The extra faff of setting up tubeless carrying a spare tube anyway and tubeless plugs etc I just cannot be bothered with. Only had one puncture on road this year in about 8000 km anyway

I run Pirelli cinturatos tubeless, would never go back to tubes . 4 years riding , I’ve had to plug 1 bad puncture , and have pulled numerous thorns and pieces of glass out.

I think, as someone pointed out earlier, I’d rather take the chance that while a tubeless might not work fully as described it will at least allow me to get home or to a safer spot. Tubed tyre with a puncture will always go completely flat quite quickly. Tubeless “might” work. I might also get covered in sealant and spend a whole load of time trying to get sealant off my bike and £300 worth of Lycra but it’s probably going to be possible to get home pretty unscathed. I run my 30mm tyres at about 60-65psi so if it seals at 50 ish that’ll do me. My experience of Stan’s is variable though. On an MTB tyre with Stan’s in I took one off after a winter of riding only to discover it had had 3 or 4 punctures that I never even knew about. On the road though it definitely sprays sealant everywhere initially… I’m hoping one of the sealants  you have to pour into the tyre because they block valve cores will perform better so that’s what I’ve gone for - no punctures yet to test….

In 5 years I've had to stop and put more air in a few times, and use a plug twice. Never had to put a tube in. Never got sprayed. I had a confusing seating problem which turned out to be degraded/damaged tape. I call that working, but who can say. Pulled a thorn out and watched it seal a couple of times. 76kg 30/32mm 60psi Stans.

I prefer the ride quality but to be fair I've not tried tpu/latex.

No tubes means lower rolling resistance – might not be much, but on a road bike, I’ll take the free speed, that’s sort of the point of being on a road bike.

Eh... like for like a clincher GP5000 with latex is faster rolling than equivalent tubeless GP5000, although that factoid might be a year or two out of date depending if Rollingresistance.com has re-tested.

I love tubeless on MTB, it was a real game changer,  and for my Fatbike I can’t get the tyre off and on away from home so I rely on tubeless 100%.

But having tried it on my road bike the experience was just as described by @escrs earlier, so I’m back to tubes there.

To answer the OP, "nope".

I'm a near-20 year vet of tubeless on MTB's (tried everything from ghetto thru rimstrips, UST to tape), when I got into gravel about 7 years ago, that was with tubeless from ride one and last year when I decided to try road - yep, tubeless.

Now, road has taken a bit of experimentation to get it right, but I'm now happy with the setup and 2 punctures in the last 2 weeks has shown it's working fine.  Both fixed with a Dynaplug (and a sealant top-up once I was home).  Run 30mm front and 34 mm rear at 55-60psi but happy that even down to 40psi it rides fine (<80kg rider).

Currently using tubeless Schwalbe Pro One's on 22mm internal width rims and ride all weathers with a longest day ride of 300k last year.

I don’t understand the “getting sprayed with sealant” bit.  How much fluid are you putting in there?  Even with Shokz headphones on I can hear a puncture and all I have to do is slow to a stop, place the hole at the top of the tyre until it’s deflated a little then gently roll it around to near the bottom sloshing it backwards and forwards and it will seal.  By this point the tyre is usually down to around 25-30psi (32c) down from 55.  Resist the temptation to pump it up and simply ride on at the lower pressure and be gentle.  When you get somewhere safe.  Find the hole, roll it to the top, ream and anchovie it.  Pump to 30-35psi. Roll the fluid onto the anchovie until the noise stops. Add more air but not full pressure and ride on.  Your choice as to whether you trim the anchovie - I usually do, but if it’s a flat ride I might just leave it to wear down.

Unless you get a lot of thorn type punctures (ie easily fixed via jizz without intervention), road tubeless is a bit of a faff for not much gain IME.

Yes it mostly fixes small punctures on the go and often you may not even realise you’ve had one. Other times, there's the telltale pffft, pffftt, pfftt of a puncture going round and round before it seals. However,  sometimes, they just don't fix and need on road TLC.

The main drawbacks are maintenance/faff, you need to keep on top of topping up your jizz and sometimes just setting up a new tyre is a pain... Unseating the bead mid puncture/mid ride is also a royal PIA that can't really be fixed out on the road. Lastly, giving in to a tube mid ride is messy and needs the tyre carcass carefully inspecting (usually with your fingers) for previously unseen, repaired incursions. It can be a real pain - literally.

You'll also often need to repair a jizzed puncture when you get home. I use mushrooms and this is also a bit of a faff.

I suppose the answer of it being worth it largely depends on how many 'simple' punctures you normally get and your tolerance to changing an inner tube at the side of the road. IME, there's not really any performance benefit just an occasional avoidance of standing around. I don't get many road punctures so the benefit frequency is low.

After all that, I'm still running tubeless on a couple of road bikes but will probably revert to tubes when the current tyres are due for change.

I've been using tubeless on my roadbike for over 10 years. I switched when I was commuting everyday into Manchester, which had lots of glass on the road. It was a long commute of an hour plus and I couldn't afford the time for fixing punctures, so was using heavier and heavier tyres, which were slowing me down and making the journey hard work. Switching to a training tyre as tubeless was a revelation, so much so that I will always try to run tubeless on the road when I could. I find it fast rolling, comfier and I'm no longer as worried by glass or throns. I've had multiple punctures sealed by it, often I only know this when I clean my bike and it's covered in sticky sealant. I've only had one time where I had to throw away a fairly new tyre due to too large a hole, a couple of times of resorting to an inner tube, and quite a few times of nursing the bike back home on low pressure. I always carry a pump and inner tube as backup.

Downsides are it's a pain in the arse to fit, and I have to carry tyre levers as I'm too weak now to get tight fitting tyres off the bead. I'm baffled why so many people cannot get it to work, but then I'm 60kgs if I'm soaked wet through. I don't listen to old roadie mates on equipment as they still think a bottom gear smaller than 39-21 will make you slow.

Simple answer is try it and see if you like it.

I’m baffled why so many people cannot get it to work, 

This applies to many far more basic things...

I’ve had the odd puncture where I’ve been covered in sealant because I haven’t heard it (I’m a bit deaf though!!). It’s in the dry when I’ve got no mudguard on but it’s worth the risk IMO and I’ll keep using tubeless on the road for now I reckon. Although with a few sets of wheels available I’m going to run some TPU tubes as well. I currently only keep TPUs for emergency and I’ve not had to use one yet…

I am pretty much locked in to tubeless as my new bike came with hookless rims (another rabbit hole I won't go in to now!), so I have to run tubeless tyres.  Therefore it made sense to try full tubeless.  My main punctures on the road have been snakebikes from potholes and cattlegrids.

1000+ miles and I've been happy so far, on 28s with about 58/62 psi.  Next tyres will be 30+ though, probably 32s at about 52psi.

For my Mrs we decided it's too much hassle so went standard 32mm GP5000 and tried Ride Now, which were not good so she's back on butyl temporarily.  I'll get her some latex tubes for summer, or a good brand of TPU, which sounds like the best option if your rims can take it.

On the tubed boiks, I'm still using Supersonics at ~50g. TPU's can't be that much lighter?Shirley being able to glue a patch if required is worth a few grammes?

Road tubeless is fine with 28c plus tyres (ideally 30c and above).

But it’s definitely a more marginal gain than gravel set-up and it can be a PITA if the tyres and wheels aren’t spot on. It seems less tolerant than MTB / gravel set-up, put it that way.

Pretty much covered in the first response.

But.....

Bear in mind that the current Zipp 303s have a maximum rated pressure of 72psi. This isn't 1995 anymore, you don't need to be running 23mm tyres at 110psi.  28mm tyres on appropriate rims have been demonstrated to be faster, so following the normal logic that ordinary people are slower and heavier there really isn't much reason not to be running >28mm tyres or at least maxing out the clearance on your frame.

I'm only running TPU tubes as I had a sets of OEM tyres to use up.  So far it's looking likely that a set of Hutchinson Fusion5's and some sealant might have been cheaper.

Faff wise, it depends.  I've found the tyres tend to lock onto the rim pretty tenaciously.  I've even ridden a few miles on a totally flat tyre because I CBA to stop on the hill and fix it.  So you're not likely to get stranded unable to get it to inflate with a hand pump.  They've also tended to inflate first time on the compressor without having to dance around with old tubes, straps etc.

New bike (hopefully) arrives next month and will be immediately set-up tubeless.

For my Mrs we decided it’s too much hassle so went standard 32mm GP5000 and tried Ride Now, which were not good so she’s back on butyl temporarily.  I’ll get her some latex tubes for summer, or a good brand of TPU, which sounds like the best option if your rims can take it.

Out of interest, what's your issue with them?

I was doing fine with them until the first puncture.  Since then I've had multiple and the patched tubes have slow punctures.  Can't figure out if it's the patches that don't seal, the tubes just don't tolerate being handled much or just that I'm running cheap tyres this winter that let thorns through.

I had to bin one as when checking for leaks one (presumably weakened) section just expanded like a snake eating something and didn't shrink back.

I'm now a bit more 50/50 on them.  The issues aside they're the same price as even cheap butyl tubes, and weigh almost nothing in comparison.  It's just an annoyance that if I bin the current two then that'll be 3 tubes binned this winter.  Not sure if that's a pathetic winge given I've had quite a decent winter riding on the road, or really wasteful.  At this point if I was doing a big event I'd fit new tubes beforehand which isn't something I'd think about with butyl.

My one TPU repair slow leaked, but I hadn't sanded the tube a la normal repairs. Tried again having sanded tube and it held air fine.

I run 25mm internal rim width and 32s on my summer road bike. Also have Vittoria road liners which "inflate" to fill the space once air pressure is lost. I've basically stopped carrying tubes or a pump (have co2 and bacon strips).

The only puncture I've had (front) wouldn't seal (i hadn't updated the sealant for 2 years...) so I rode home on the liner.

Cautious downhill at first around corners then a bit of mild offroad to detour round an issue and then got up to 50kph on a straight downhill. Yes it was slower and slightly harder work but meant I didn't need to call for pickup or faff around putting a tube in that I didn't have and getting covered in sealant.

So you’re not likely to get stranded unable to get it to inflate with a hand pump

Sadly, not my experience. I managed to break the bead during one puncture 'event'. It was funny tho. Our Club tubeless zealot had a tubeless puncture, didn't have a spare - had to borrow a tube, ran out of puff in his electric doo da - had to borrow a mini pump... Whilst this was going on, I punctured whilst stationary and broke the bead. I had a spare tube and mini pump so no drama apart from savaged fingers finding all the thorns from previous spontaneous repairs...

I've tried it, it kind of worked. But despite what others have said, I did get covered in sealant, sometimes you can't just stop! Cleaning sealant off bike, kit and legs hairs was a much bigger hassle, than <5mins to swap out a tube. The dried selant is hard to get off the frame once covered in dust.

Inner tubes take no time to swap.

I'm on Ridenow TPU, they're brilliant, and if you buy a few at a time direct from Ali, they're cheap as chips (£3.41 today)

They roll fast inside Conti GP5K, really nice.

They're tiny too, so carrying 2/3 spares is easy. And if you do puncture one, they wrap up so small it's easier popping that in your jersey pocket, than a mucky old butyl tube (which are bulky).

TPU is the answer.

Sadly, not my experience. I managed to break the bead during one puncture ‘event’.

Yea, IME my Shimano wheels (no tape) will grip the bead tenaciously.

The stans (taped) aren't so great.

On the tubed boiks, I’m still using Supersonics at ~50g. TPU’s can’t be that much lighter?Shirley being able to glue a patch if required is worth a few grammes?

~25g

They come with a set of glueless patches.

They don't lose any measurable pressure over a few days (at least when new).

Half the price (from China).

The other big advantage is they don't spontaneously deflate like butyl tubes. If you get a thorn it tends to then go down slowly over 5-10miles.  The material is relatively inelastic so once inflated to the size of the tyre it holds that shape. So when it gets a hole in it the material isn't under tension and doesn't pull that hole open.  The downside of that is it makes finding the hole more difficult as the hole is smaller and you can't just over-inflate the tube and listen for the hiss.

And touch wood I've not had any valve stems rip out of the tube which seemed to be a routine occurrence with supersonics.  I eventually settled on the Michelin versions (ultralight?) which were more like 70g and a bit more durable.

It's a 3rd option really. A different set of benefits and drawbacks than either tubeless or butyl tubes.

I’ve tried it, it kind of worked. But despite what others have said, I did get covered in sealant, sometimes you can’t just stop! Cleaning sealant off bike, kit and legs hairs was a much bigger hassle, than <5mins to swap out a tube. The dried selant is hard to get off the frame once covered in dust.
IPA is good for getting it off.

IPA is good for getting dry sealant off, especially where it stains rims.

I agree though, tubes are at least a consistent faff.  It's almost always going to be the same ~5minute job to swap one.

Tubeless is trading that 5minutes but more regular faffing for an occasional utter PITA.

If you get a thorn it tends to then go down slowly over 5-10miles.

I have had this experience too. If punctured, they deflate really slowy, to the point that you're thinking..is it soft...not sure..eventually it is obvious it's going down.

With good quality modern tyres, I find that road punctures are very rare and are easily fixed when they do happen, so I have never seen a compelling reason to go tubeless. I run 28mm tyres with conventional butyl tubes. I think the benefits for mtb/gravel are much clearer, and I have been running tubeless off road for 15 years.

Inner tubes take no time to swap.

Inner tubes take significantly more time to swap than not getting punctures in the first place, and if you do puncture tubeless, it's not really more time putting a tube in than it would be to swap a tube.

They come with a set of glueless patches.

I haven't had a huge amount of success patching TPU tubes, and zero success with the included RideNow patches. I guess they might hold long enough in an emergency to get you home, but I've not had one hold even overnight.

The downside of that is it makes finding the hole more difficult as the hole is smaller and you can’t just over-inflate the tube and listen for the hiss.

That's the other thing for me, you pretty much have to find punctures in a basin of water.

For me, spares are butyl because I don't rate TPU tubes as being field repairable, and I worry about having more punctures than tubes.

Downsides are it’s a pain in the arse to fit

I've had road tubeless ever since Schwalbe started doing it with their Tubeless Easy Pro Ones (2015?). Whether they are genuinely "easy" for every wheel or I just lucked out with mine (mavic ksyrium elite) but I've always been able to take them on/off with just my hands, so there's zero downside/faff for me! Less chance of a puncture (the only one I remember having was when all the sealant had totally dried out, now I just add more occasionally!), lower pressure, more comfortable/more efficient, what's not to like 🙂 Would not go back.

Inner tubes take significantly more time to swap than not getting punctures in the first place, and if you do puncture tubeless, it’s not really more time putting a tube in than it would be to swap a tube.

Except for:

giving in to a tube mid ride is messy and needs the tyre carcass carefully inspecting (usually with your fingers) for previously unseen, repaired incursions. It can be a real pain – literally.

I had a spare tube and mini pump so no drama apart from savaged fingers finding all the thorns from previous spontaneous repairs…

Unless the tyre is still fairly new then you can't just put a tube in. It's a slow, messy, faffy process pulling out all those thorns, especially as they'll have been ground down into the tyre so you have to push them out from the inside with tools.

Although I have wondered if one of those tyre liner strips would make a good emergency repair, one of those and a TPU tube wouldn't weigh much more than a full-fat butyl and probably more likely to work.

It’s a slow, messy, faffy process pulling out all those thorns

I mean, it's a bit messier, granted, but you still have to remove all the thorns if you're swapping a tube, and tubeless has obviously saved you from having to change a number of tubes beforehand.

Out of interest, what’s your issue with them?

Fitted carefully as per instructions, with barely a puff of air just to hold shape, by hand, no tyre levers or pinching.  Brand new wheels and tyres.

One leaked immediately from the base of the valve stem at a split.  One leaked at the overlap/joint and the other had mysterious pinholes around the inner face (rim tape face) despite no debris (new wheels and tubes, checked and wiped before install).

I wasn't inclined to send her out on the 4th so went for old faithful, which she completed coast to coast on with no issues.  Perhaps she'd have been a minute or two quicker with Ride Now.  Or an hour or two slower.  Wasn't worth the risk!

If I end up with a tubeless mess or faff I might give then a go in my tubeless tyres but so far happy carrying a 50g butyl supersonic as a spare.

I mean, it’s a bit messier, granted, but you still have to remove all the thorns if you’re swapping a tube, and tubeless has obviously saved you from having to change a number of tubes beforehand.

Yea, but there's only ever 1 at a time.

And IME when a tubeless tyre doesn't seal the process is actually:

Pump it up and hope

Pump it up and hope again

Plug it and pump it up

Pump it up one last time

Give up and put a tube in having removed the biggest thorn in the carcass and not looked for more as by this point the whole group is cold and pissed off and you're trying to hurry up

Give up entirely having missed the other 6 and getting another flat tyre a few miles later.

Like I said, it's a different set of risks and faff's.

And regardless it's a small risk either way, Maybe 1 puncture every ~500km this time of year, less in summer? So an almost guaranteed 5-minute fix Vs a potential walk/taxi.  I'll have tubeless again next month, not even any doubts over it as the bulk of the riding will be club runs and little over 200km.  But for a 1000km Audax I'm not sure, my current thinking is a new set of tyres for the event regardless and probably TPU tubes because although it'll cost me time it should mean I finish.  Or the double bagging approach, new tubeless tyres so if they do fail it'll be quicker to sort with a tube.

But for a 1000km Audax I’m not sure, my current thinking is a new set of tyres for the event regardless and probably TPU tubes because although it’ll cost me time it should mean I finish.

Funnily, longer rides are where I'm absolutely on tubeless. Wouldn't even consider tubes any more.

And IME when a tubeless tyre doesn’t seal the process is actually:

Pump it up and hope

Pump it up and hope again

Plug it and pump it up

Pump it up one last time

Give up and put a tube in having removed the biggest thorn in the carcass and not looked for more as by this point the whole group is cold and pissed off and you’re trying to hurry up

Give up entirely having missed the other 6 and getting another flat tyre a few miles later.

Ha! This my experience too. It either seals immediately or you're in for a world of pain. You get all belligerent/Mr Bean with it 'you will bloody seal...' etc. Then having faffed and fiddled for ages, spoilt your ride and lost ya pals, you give in to the inevitable and start getting sticky... I also have used tubeless off road since the days of ghetto and now, most of the time for gravel. I'm just not convinced the case is 100% black and white for road. Call me Mr Ambivalent if you will 🙂

Not going back to tubes. Actually it's over a decade since i rode tubes on the road, I used the biggest tubulars that'd fit in my frame until I hung up the road bike just prior to covid. Used tubeless on my MTB and gravel bike.

Back on the road now, and tubeless just works. Nobody I ride with uses tubes either. Winter setup is Schwalbe Pro One TLE with Decathlon own brand sealant, 4-500km a week, maybe there's a massive gotcha around the corner.

Disclaimer - there are neither hedgerows nor flint around here. My usual source of punctures is glass when riding into or out of town. On tubulars I would wipe down the tyres, deflate, and squeeze those small cuts to pick out the little bit of glass or stone that was working its way towards the inner sanctum, but now I don't even see the point of that.

I tried it on 25mm and 28mm tyres a good few years ago and it basically didn't work.

I gather the technology has moved on a bit now with the rims, tyres and sealants so I'm interested to give it another try on my next bike. I'm curious if the tubeless naysayers on this thread have tried road tubeless recently or if their opinion is based on the older less effective tech (like mine was).