[Closed] Road tubeless without sealant

No but maybe they won’t stay up. I use same tyres and with sealant their brilliant. I don’t even carry a tube.

I’d guess also if you did puncture without sealant the tyre would totally deflate very quickly. Not desirable.

Might work, but IME I doubt it. With sealant mine drop about 1psi/hr (i.e. need topping up each morning like latex tubes). Without sealant they were flat by the time I got out of the garage.

Hutchinson fusion 11storm tyres, shimano wheels, OKO sealant.

Wouldn't recommend OKO for the road either, it's great with 150ml sloshing about on the fat bike, but 50ml on the road bike barely seems to cover the inside of the tyre because there's not enough sloshing around.

You won't notice 100ml of stans spread over two wheels, it's not even rotating weight really. So what's the point in risking it.

With sealant mine drop about 1psi/hr

Wow, that's pretty poor. My Mavic wheels came with tubeless tyres fitted and inflated without sealant. I'd assumed (possibly wrongly) that the tyres were air tight.

I had wondered the same, original MTB UST didn't need sealant.

It would cut the faff in half for sure, and my memory of MTB tubeless was jets of sealant and deflating tyres...

They will seal fine onto the rims. But will obviously have no protection. Having run road tubeless, I can see that this is actually quite a good idea. Why?

Well, when you puncture and they seal, you can carry on riding, but the pressure they will hold is about 40-60 PSI - hence the MTB-appropriate technology. Any higher and the latex plug will blow out of the hole. Even with orange sealant and glitter. The solution is to remove the tyre and patch from the inside, which is an obvious messy pfaff. So why not?

FWIW, they won't roll off the rim, and probably won't go down silly fast unless you are unlucky. I've had tubeless that falied to seal and also failed to roll off on non-tubeless rims.

Now I'm back on latex inner tubes.

I'm a total convert to tubeless for MTB and gravel.

I'm unconvinced for pure tarmac riding. Despite two of my road wheel sets being tubeless ready, I'm still on tubes, using conti supersonics at 55g each.

No way running without sealant is going to work, IMO.

You won’t notice 100ml of stans spread over two wheels, it’s not even rotating weight really.

Not rotating weight? Are you sure?

My experience is different to tired’s. Punctures, the few I noticed, have sealed with, yeah the tyre going down tomabout 60psi, but I run gravel tyres at 60 anyway and its not that soft. Once the hole is plugged by the sealant you can pump it back up to 100psi and the hole will be fixed. No need for a patch - unless you want to.
I wouldn’t runwithout sealant, it keeps the tyres airtight and fixes holes... why wouldn’t you want that? Imagine puncturing a tubeless at speed, no sealant - tyre instantly flat. With sealant few psi lost. Know which I’d prefer.

Not rotating weight? Are you sure?

Sloshing. Accelerate and it's going to take a little while to get dragged upto speed.

Wow, that’s pretty poor. My Mavic wheels came with tubeless tyres fitted and inflated without sealant. I’d assumed (possibly wrongly) that the tyres were air tight.

Yup, can't figure out what's leaking. Keep meaning to swap them to my stans wheels and see if it's the shimano rims. They should be airtight but I can't remember if I put tape on them so it might be the weld. The shimano valves were also a bit of a pita to get seated.

I hit a cattle grid at speed yesterday, without sealant I’d have been facing a long taxi ride home.

Cut was right on the line of the rim, must have gotten pinched...too tight to get a plug or glue in there.

If they do go up without sealant then TBH I'd be inclined to go with TiRed's logic. My fear with tubeless is putting a tube in and spending the next hour finding old thorn after old thorn in it. At least without sealent you'd only have one!

And as you said, road punctures are hundreds of miles apart so it's not such a big deal as off road.

I had one shit ride at the end of last year on tubes when I had 3x punctures in 90miles on a cold day. On the last one I rode up a fair sized hill chasing the group on a completely flat rear tyre, it's surprisingly hard to roll a tyre off a tubeless rim.

Just done 6500km @ 4000 miles using 28 Continental TL on Europe trip. Had a couple punctures that I saw all sealed themselves. No repairs, pumped up and just kept rolling. One on the front from a metal staple still had the staple bits in it when I put new tyres on. Been rolling on 25 Continental TL for the last 2000km. Again faultless. But I use latex solution. Being able to roll for three months and 7500km without stopping for a puncture? Priceless. I’ll stick with latex fluid in my tyres thanks it works

@Pawsy_Bear I'm not too worried about punctures. I haven't punctured on the road for two years. I understand that sealant will seal small holes and that is a benefit for some people.

But, I can't see any reason why a tubeless tyre will deflate any quicker or slower than a tubed tyre with an equivalent puncture. And as @TiRed has pointed out you have to stop and re-inflate the tyre once the sealant has done its job, so sticking a tube in is hardly the end of the world. For me personally, running close to 90psi, sealant isn't that much of a gain. And may well end up being sprayed all over me and the bike until the pressure is low enough for the tyre to seal.

I just wanted to know if road tubeless tyres / rims stay inflated without sealant as most MTB tyres/rims aren't air tight.

I just wanted to know if road tubeless tyres / rims stay inflated without sealant as most MTB tyres/rims aren’t air tight.

Seems like the answer is maybe.

FWIW I've tried

On the CX bikes:
DT R460 - Schwalbe CX Comp not tubeless ready, with sealant - wouldn't stay up overnight at 40psi
Stans Crest - Schwalbe CX Comp not tubeless ready, with sealant - wouldn't stay up at 40psi overnight but would last a 2 hour ride.

Haven't tried more expensive tyres yet as it's summer and I'm commuting on them so tyres are expensive! I'll get something propper for the Autumn.

On the road bike:
Shimano RS61 rims - Hutchinson Fusion 11Storm tubeless tyres - useable for a day with sealant but need topping up before a ride.

Still have to try those tyres on my Stans Alpha rims.

Thats with OKO sealant. Which I've concluded is great for bulk use in the fat bike and MTB's, but will get a bottle of Stans for the road bikes I think as whenever I've had the tyre off it's just thickened to a patch of paper mache.

Seems like the answer is maybe.

Thanks @thisisnotaspoon Think I'll stick them on, blow them up and see what happens. I've got some Mavic tubeless tyres and GP5000 TL so will try both. I'll report back for anyone who's interested.

Proper UST tyres used with UST rims technically don’t need sealant. That’s why Mavic set ups don’t use it. Most manufacturers however don’t go with UST as the tolerances are a lot tighter, simply stating that parts are “Tubeless ready” ie need sealant to achieve a seal. From memory the proper UST tyres have an extra layer of rubber sealing the inside, while tubeless ready rely on the sealant to make the carcass airtight.

Yep, some tubeless tyres are air tight on their own. The GP 5000 for example, have a layer of rubber internally that is air tight, it's partly why they are a bit heavier than some others. Many tubeless tyres are not airtight on their own, and require the sealant to not leak air. Only discovered this fact last night, while trying to decide what tyres to upgrade to. Tubeless is a minefield in my book. I'm sticking with tubes.

Tubeless is a minefield in my book. I’m sticking with tubes.

I wouldn't ride through a minefield then 😉

[i]you have to stop and re-inflate the tyre once the sealant has done its job, so sticking a tube in is hardly the end of the world[/i]
Says someone who's never sweated more than is humanly possible trying to get a road UST tyre off and back on again...

may well end up being sprayed all over me and the bike until the pressure is low enough for the tyre to seal.
Yeah it does that. Was thankful to have mudguards on recently when a hole took a while. Thing is, if you're not worried about punctures, why would you worry about that? Anyway, each to their own, but I'd rather negate the puncture risk than save the tiny amount of weight of sealant.
Actual UST tyres are pretty rare these days. Hutchinson used to be, but mostly they are tubeless ready.

you can pump it back up to 100psi

I've had punctures that have failed to seal in the following types of tyre:

Schwalbe Ones - 90 PSI - cut that wrote the tyre off.
Corsa Speeds - 100 PSI - several small glass punctures on a poorly chosen line
Schwalbe G-One Speed 70 PSI - as above - more glass.

the first two were absolutely unable to hold their original pressures without an internal patch. To be fair, another Corsa Speed sealed in a race and I finished at 30 PSI, another set of Ones sealed but would not hold more than 60 PSI for longer than a minute or two of riding without an internal patch. The G-One Speed still sports the inner tube I fitted the night it failed. The rear is still tubeless - both on non tubeless Ksyriums.

In my limited experience (Gravelking slicks and GP5000TL) thin road tyres get a lot of holes that are too small to puncture a tube, but will slowly leak air (and sealant) out. I imagine that without a tube or sealant they would mean that the tyre would deflate quite quickly. This might be related to me being fat, however, as I wear out tyres really fast without any extra damage.

One of the benefits of TL is running lower pressures getting a better tyre profile and lower rolling resistance. Why run 90psi? 68kg plus load I run 55 front 60 rear on 28mm. And that’s not excessively low. From what I can see your losing all the benefits of TL.

When I first inflate new tyres on my wheels they go up fine dry. Wheels are Reynolds Carbon x41. I then deflate and remove valve and inject liquid.

Why run 90psi?

Because the people who design the rims and the tyres I use recommend that as the correct pressure for my weight and intended riding.

One of the benefits of TL is running lower pressures getting a better tyre profile and lower rolling resistance

I think rolling resistance will increase with lower pressures, at least according to this site – www.bicyclerollingresistance.com

What do you mean by tyre profile?

Oh geez, that website. Relevant if you’re riding on diamond tread metal plate, otherwise takes no account of real world roads with its bumps and imperfections.

@clubby Got a link to a better site? I appreciate the drum is reasonably smooth but why would a rougher road have the opposite effect on rolling resistance?

If you have all the answers asking us who run TL seems a bit pointless. Why don’t you just try what you want and then experiment with different tyre pressures liquid, no liquid to see what the difference is in the real world. We have experience you have web sites.

Currently using Schwalbe Pro One's I'm tubeless with sealant and no punctures in approx 3000 miles. Certainly don't notice the extra Grip isn't very good. The problem I have is that the wheels are an absolute b%stard to get the tyres off and new tubes in. I take out road anchovies, superglue and a tyre boot. So far not needed them.
I wouldn't want to run without sealant, friend had a flat a few weeks ago (same set up as me). Going fast he at least had the time for the hole to try and mend, don't think it would have been an off moment either way but you never know.
I have Reynolds Strike SLG wheels, as much as the performance is great, they are a nightmare. So will look at replacing them in the not to distant future.
Had Tubeless on my Bontrager road wheels and no issues what so ever. Tyres came off nicely, inflated OK and lasted a long time. Just expensive.

We have experience you have web sites.

Probaably expecting that person who says ‘Yeah, been running road tubeless for years, no sealant! No puncture! 120psi, million miles without any issues!’
No idea why he hasn’t turned up... 😂

I've been running road tubeless with sealant for about four years now, and my experience is mostly positive. It may well be the case that 100 PSI blows the sealant plug out, but as I never run more than 80 PSI in 28mm tyres this is a non-issue. I've found that punctures tend to seal at around 50-60 PSI which is perfectly adequate for completing a ride. I've never had problems reinflating back to full pressure afterwards. Some minor issues:

1. I use Stans Grail rims which have been fairly easy to mount tyres on (Schwalbe Pro Ones and Hutchinson Sectors) though I've needed to use a CO2 cartridge on occasion to get the tyre to seat.
2. The latex will spray at the riders following you and is a bugger to get off the back of the seat tube once it's dried.
3. The rims need re-taping eventually as it starts to lift at the edges. This manifested itself as a very slow air leak around the spoke holes.
4. A broken spoke can be replaced without removing the tape but this needs great care to avoid the nipple disappearing into the rim cavity.
5. Schwalbe Pro Ones are IMO way too cut prone, wear fast, and have poor grip in the wet. A real pity as they feel great.

IPA/brake cleaner seems to clean up dried latex stains. I had a horrible looking set of black rims until I found this by accident whilst cleansing the brakes.

^Good tip, thanks. I tried meths but it didn't work.

better tyre profile and lower rolling resistance

Because I'm racing and the above is not true. you get lower rolling resistance for the same pressure, I agree, but overall rolling resistance always goes down with increasing pressure. Always. Whether one's teeth can take the jarring is another matter.

One of the biggest pushes for me back to tubes was the challenge in removing tyres that would not seal. In a 50/100 mile TT, any time I may gain from the lower rolling resistance of the Corsa Speeds (and they are fabulously fast) will be more than offset by trying to remove and replace them come puncture time!

One of the benefits of TL is running lower pressures getting a better tyre profile and lower rolling resistance. 

Really? Softer tyres will surely increase rolling resistance. Why do track riders inflate to 10bar? Because they want rock hard and minimum drag.

Really? Softer tyres will surely increase rolling resistance. Why do track riders inflate to 10bar? Because they want rock hard and minimum drag.

I think the conflicting arguments are that the tyres being rock hard reduces drag, but the tyres being a little softer stops the bike from having to bounce so much over real world roads. The counter to the latter point is that for every jarring 'up' the speed is immediately given back on the 'down' vibration. And the counter to that point is you'll put put more power on a comfortable bike after a few hours rather than having fatigued muscles.

If wide tyres were actually fast the pelaton would be on them, especially the big teams with boffins and wind tunnels.

I have been using road tubeless for about four years. On my first bike with it I have Lightbicycle rims and have always used 28mm Schwalbe Pro Ones. Fairly easy to fit and inflate, although once the beads stretch slightly I have found them harder to get inflated, although always succeeded with an Airshot. Always run with sealant, I can't see any benefit of running without sealant. I wrote a tyre off on my second ride on the bike, I must have gone over a piece of glass or something and it put a huge cut in the centre of the tyre, a standard tubed tyre would also have been binned with the same damage. Apart from that I think I have had to put an inner tube in once - checking Strava I have covered 6.5k miles on the bike. I have also got home a few times with things stuck in the tyre, but with the sealant doing it's job of sealing the hole, obviously after covering the bike in sealant for a few minutes... Punctured tyres I have repaired with an inner tube patch on the inside. However I have found the Pro Ones very soft and susceptible to picking up nicks from road debris.

On my new road bike I have Giant own brand rims together with 25mm Giant Gavia AC 0 tyres. Reviews of the tyres weren't good so I wasn't expecting much of them, but I have been very impressed. I have covered just over 1k miles on the bike and the tyres don't show any marks at all. In that time I have done a few wet rides in flinty areas that would normally put a few nicks into Pro Ones. When I bought the bike the shop said Giant tyres are made by Maxxis, not sure if that is true or not, but the quality seems good. I haven't tried to remove them yet, so not sure how tight or easy to inflate they are.

One thing I have noticed with road tubeless is that the sealant seems to last much longer than in my mtb wheels. I rarely have to top it up. I use Stans in all my wheels.

I probably top up the tyres with air once a week, I don't find I get significant pressure lose in that time, maybe 10-20psi.

If wide tyres were actually fast the pelaton would be on them, especially the big teams with boffins and wind tunnels.

They're running much wider tyres than BITD.

If your tyres are airtight on rim and stay up without sealant then I would agree that there is no need to add sealant if you are carrying a tube.
I gave up with tubeless on the road as punctures didn't seal at the high pressures so may as well just use a tube and have less mess. I needed sealant as my tyres didn't stay up without it as it sealed small gaps/holes between tyre bead and rim.

If weight is a factor just get some Tubolito tubes at 30g each.

They’re running much wider tyres than BITD

while that may be true because marketing only works if the big boys run the newest things- their time trial bikes are still largely running 20-22c tires.

Aero still trumps comfort for speed - check hambinis independent testing.

FWIW as an experiment last night i lowered my giant SLR 1 (wide road tubeless) road rims to 55 psi front and 60psi rear- with the stock tires- same ones jason above has.. because pawsy bear suggested so.

well i wont be doing that again. surprised i have any rims left. any lower than 80psi felt squirmy and like the tire was going to rip off the rim. im 82KG. I can definantly see why people would run 90psi - especially if they are riding hard/cornering hard - a rolled tire does no one any favours in a road race.

Have to admit I had believed the lower pressure = lower rolling resistance theory (due to suspension effect of softer tyres), was running 75psi with tubes on my commuter until my luck ran out and I started getting pinch flats.

This convinced me to go tubeless until I started re-reading people's stories of latex not sealing and spraying everywhere etc. (and relating it to my experiences on the MTB). Suitably put off, I just pumped the tyres up a bit more and stuck in a cheap carbon post for comfort. Got to say the bike definitely felt like it rolled a bit quicker at 90psi than it did at 75psi...

'Dry' tubeless could still tempt me for winter use when I want lower pressures, it's a good compromise between tubeless with sealant (fewer punctures but messy if and when they happen) and tubes which might puncture more but are at least simpler to fix when it happens.

My DT rims are already taped up with DT tape, so am hoping they'll work with Hutchinson Fusion All Weather Storm 11 tyres (or whatever they're called...).

while that may be true because marketing only works if the big boys run the newest things- their time trial bikes are still largely running 20-22c tires.

If it were down to marketing then the whole peloton would run tubeless. Most of them use tubs, don't they?

Most of them use tubs, don’t they?

Pretty sure all of them are using tubs on the road stages. Some are running tubeless on the TT bikes.

Some are running tubeless on the TT bikes.

Which is not such a hardship when the mechanic stops the car and unloads the spare bike. Try doing that on the A14 on a cold Sunday morning at 5 AM 😀

Pro's ride tubulars because 1) they are paid to, 2) they are a little lighter and roll a little bit better than tubes (but not tubeless) and 3) they don't have to fix them!

Tubeless is on the TT bikes because it is faster, and I will absolutely guarantee they are not running 65 PSI 😉

Back to my original question: can you run tubeless wheels/tyres without sealant?

Last night I set up my first set of wheels – DT Swiss P 1800 Spline 32 Disc / Mavic Yksion Pro UST. So a fully tubeless set-up. The tyres went onto the rims a doddle with just fingers. They inflated and popped onto the bead using an air chamber style track pump, but they didn't hold pressure very long. I chucked in 45ml of sealant, re-inflated them and they held full pressure over night. Given the tyres appeared to hold pressure when they were on the Mavic Cosmic Pro SL wheel set they came with I am guessing that the DT rim/tape/value/bead requires sealant to become air tight. So attempt number one definitely does need sealant.

Tonight I'll try fitting the Cosmic wheels with GP5000 TL dry and see if they hold pressure.

@13thfloormonk, that’s the combo I’m using. Tyres popped on easily and seated using just a track pump. Using about half a Stan’s mini bottle worth of sealant. Dropped a bit of pressure overnight on initial set up but settled down after first ride. Now loses about 10psi over a week, pretty compatible to my last set of wheels on lightweight tubes.

Back to my original question: can you run tubeless wheels/tyres without sealant?

There is no simple answer to that. You can run some tyre/rime combinations without sealant and other combinations you can't as the tyre/rim is not air tight on it's own. In my experience even the same tyre and rim can sometimes differ.
So the answer is if the tyre stays up without sealant then you don't need it but there is no guarantee which tyre/rim will do that.