[Closed] Road sportives; should we ban them?

Yes we should. Nothing but a nuisance which holds up legitimate road users everywhere.

Don't poke them all with that shitty stick.#davidthejudgetaylforth.

Yes ! No !

Down with this sort of thing.

Thankfully car drivers never litter, movers never leave rubbish on the trail and people walking always take their trash with them. Oh wait.

I'm not in favour of banning anything, but if I was, organising races on public roads would be on the list.

So, no.

Above all we must use our collective power to ban mass participation events wisely.

With great power comes great responsibility.

troll too far.

Not in my back yard!

Don't ban the events but do ban anyone from entering them if they refer to it as 'a race'. Double ban if this 'race' term is used in the context of "can you fix my bike by tomorrow, I have a race to do".

I bet they don't even pay road tax

No, not a troll post. I personally don't care for them; prefer cycling on my own for free.

Don't ban the events but do ban anyone from entering them if they refer to it as 'a race'.

Probably that. Get rid of the timing, then it'd be much more laid back and people might stop to put their rubbish in bins.

Agree with the timing thing. It's idiotic.

Maybe set a minimum time limit with checks along the way. Anyone who is going to quickly has to stop and wait for a time gate to open.

If people enjoy them, then let them happen.

You should be banned from [i]competing[/i] in them for a year if you get seen littering, tho.

It's fair to say that on the Local Access Forum there has been some 'in depth' discussion of sportive so for some time, including some fairly extensive feedback from councillors, parish councils, etc.

The level of vitriol, angst and anger that 'sportives' cause amongst certain sectors of the community is absolutely remarkable, however when you actually question what that are talking about, it rapidly becomes clear that they are very rarely talking about actual sportive events, and the vast majority of the time they are referring to club runs, they just don't know the difference.

I think it's a valid concern however that many are run, or at least seen by some of the participants as, quasi-races (which would need authorisation by the police) and that they live in a legislative lacuna whereby events are almost entirely unregulated.

Riding one on Sunday.

I shall fuel on a large bag of jelly babies though not gels - unless my legs really give up in which case I might have a sly one.

and the vast majority of the time they are referring to club runs, they just don't know the difference

So what is the difference? (Larger numbers, poorer riding standards, more littering, less invasion of local facilities?) And from a "locals" point of view, how would the experience differ?

mrblobby - Member
Maybe set a minimum time limit with checks along the way. Anyone who is going to quickly has to stop and wait for a time gate to open.

🙂 I like it. You'd still inevitably get a braying mob at the gates; pushing their way to the front to get through first though.....

davidtaylforth - Member

I personally don't care for them; prefer cycling on my own for free

Everyone on STW rides on their own you know....... other than when they're riding with people...... which is all the time.

Can we just re-name them mini-audaxs to keep everyone happy?

How's about banning mountain biking cos some people who do it ride on foot paths

Are they leaving their bikes behind for others to clean up?

but if I was, organising races on public roads would be on the list

Olympic road race? Tour de France? Tour of Britain? Is this a blanket ban?

only if we can ban cyclocross too

Yes. especially them utter b@llends who think racing up & down the a3 is a good idea. Is that a sportive? I dont know, but I want it banned.

but we're all ok with gravel racing, yeah?

Just ride Audax ,time limits, smaller entry fees and much smaller fields .Most sportives have far to many entrants

I think the thread is 50/50 split between those who know the OP is mildly trolling, and people taking this shit seriously.

So what is the difference?

I think that the key difference is that with a sportive its 'been and gone' in a morning like a plague of locusts that descend and then move on (even with the most concentrated spots it's a fairly limited number of times a year) whereby with club runs there are areas where its pretty relentless pressure all day sat & sun & summer weekday evenings.

No, not a troll post. I personally don't care for them; prefer cycling on my own for free.

Good for you champ

bongohoohaa - Member

I think the thread s 50/50 split between those who know the OP is mildly trolling, and people taking this shit seriously.

Sportives are serious races though

Sportives are serious races though

True dat, if you [s]win one[/s] finish in the first 100 [edit, see below] then it gives you bragging rights at the tri-club for at least the next month.

Just ban Rapha surely? Best ban the Kask team sky painted helmets too, just to be on the safe side.

Normality would be resumed 😆

ninfan - Member

Sportives are serious races though

True dat, if you win one ...

How do you win? Is it like the diving/gymnastics when you get points for various attibutes of your ride: obnoxious behaviour, loudmouth boasting, innapropriately expensive gadgets and flair of your gel wrapper throw?

Tardy Half Divot

Oh dear, I was just about to enter a sportive , run in aid of the community shop in a mate's village. Obviously I won't now.

We're organising one mid September. £15 entry limited numbers, organised feed stops, and a pint and cottage pie at the end.
We'll raise some money for the charity and folk will have fun. No timing and warnings about traffic and littering emphasised at start.

YES. Ban them all...

Buuuuuut. Still do them.

The ensuing police chase will motivate riders for faster times.

I'd just ban the people wearing military watches if they still have no ninja skillz whatsoever,they are making undercover sas killers look silly,ban them.

there are areas where its pretty relentless pressure

How dare people travel on their bikes and enjoy the countryside. How dare they.

Maybe set a minimum time limit with checks along the way. Anyone who is going to quickly has to stop and wait for a time gate to open.

That would be an audax!!

I dropped a bar wrapper on purpose during the last sportive I did. I stopped and picked it up, I was using it as a good excuse to drop off the back of a group who were going far too fast for me without losing face AND give myself good karma points for picking up litter!
Actually havent done many Sportives but have always been surprised by the lack of litter considering how many people are riding and the ease with which you can miss a pocket.

How do you win? Is it like the diving/gymnastics when you get points for various attibutes of your ride: obnoxious behaviour, loudmouth boasting, innapropriately expensive gadgets and flair of your gel wrapper throw?

Fair point, edited accordingly. Don't forget bonus points for parking your car in a location that blocks in other competitors and stylistic marks for grabbing armfuls of food at the first feeding point so as to not leave enough for others.

That would be an audax!!

🙂

onehundredthidiot - Member
We're organising one mid September. £15 entry limited numbers, organised feed stops, and a pint and cottage pie at the end.
We'll raise some money for the charity and folk will have fun. No timing and warnings about traffic and littering emphasised at start.
POSTED 12 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

That sounds like an audax to me. Great. All for it.

Some smaller 'sportive' style events are probably great. It's the mass participation fun ride as a 'race' ones that hit the idiot button. IMHO.. 🙂

Olympic road race? Tour de France? Tour of Britain? Is this a blanket ban?

Anyway, no. I'd come up with a list of 10 things and ban them*. Everything else, not banned.

*One of them might have to be racing on open roads. Even doG couldn't think of 10 things to ban without coming up with nonsense about ox bothering.

Cars emit noxious gases, like NOx and diesel particulates. Which are far more damaging to health than any amount of gel wrappers.

So ban cars (at least diesels anyway, small petrol cars from Japan with a roof that folds down get an exemption obviously).

Even doG couldn't think of 10 things to ban without coming up with nonsense about ox bothering.

This dog?

[img] [/img]

I don't think he cares much for sportives either.

Cars emit noxious gases

No worse than a bunch of sportive riders who've been munching on energy bars and gels for 5 hours.

This dog?

Oh dear, I was just about to enter a sportive , run in aid of the community shop in a mate's village. Obviously I won't now.

That's the only sportive I've ever done and the organiser takes littering very seriously
[url= https://twitter.com/HighPeakRadio/status/763792892536221697 ]Tweet[/url]

5thElefant - Member

I'm not in favour of banning anything, but if I was, organising races on public roads would be on the list.

Road races don't cause very much disruption, they are generally a smallish group travelling at a reasonable pace using rolling road blocks.

Road races don't cause very much disruption, they are generally a smallish group travelling at a reasonable pace using rolling road blocks.

Until they come head to head with a sportive!

http://road.cc/content/news/119412-video-what-happens-when-sportive-meets-road-race-coming-other-way

Blimey was this really two years ago... 😕

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/sportive-vs-road-race-that-was-close

I've always found it a bit odd that rides on open roads are timed - to me that is bordering on a race, which I'm pretty sure is illegal?

I've done a few Sportives, inc RideLondon twice.
I'm not a massive fan, however they do serve as motivation to get out and ride, which I sometimes need.

On all the 'sportives' I've done, the majority of entrants are well behaved considerate people, but there are always a few who stand-out due to bad behaviour, littering, etc.
I know it is a cliché, but they often appear to be obnoxious 40-somethings on team issue dream-bikes.

Not really sure what the answer is - I guess nothing will change unless someone gets killed 'racing' during a sportive, or until the residents of Surrey hills/the New Forest/etc finally manage to get them stopped.

Everyone should just go back to playing golf.

Stop comparing golfers to roadies.

It's quite clear that golf is actually a walking Enduro, scored stages with transitions in between.

Shred the green gnar!!!

"Yes we should. Nothing but a nuisance which holds up legitimate road users everywhere."

😆

What have you got against bastards?

I'd rather ban gels. 15 years ago people seemed to be able to exercise without them.
Given the cost of some sportives its hardly surprising that people expect someone to run around after them to clear up their mess.

Not really sure what the answer is - I guess nothing will change unless someone gets killed 'racing' during a sportive, or until the residents of Surrey hills/the New Forest/etc finally manage to get them stopped.

Resident of a Surrey village getting ready to welcome the weekend's sportive...

[img] [/img]

I've been through the whole range of sportive opinions - as a beginner they are something to aim at and give a level of comfort for challenging rides. I'm now at the point where I hate riding big ones - too disruptive to the roads, too much terrible riding and behaviour, people treating them as races.

The ones I've done recently have been much smaller, local charity ones with no timing and cake laden food stops run by local WIs. These are much more pleasant with far less nobbish activity and they tend to be more inclusive too - a wide range of abilities and bikes on show.

Don't ban them, but ban any sort of timing and publishing of times.

Sportives, especially post Wiggins are OK as long as riders dont wear pro team kit, all of them shave their legs and dont ride bikes like ducks.

The seemingly millions of Team Sky Rapha clad hairy legged carbon multi million £ pedal like a duck riders boil my blood every time I see them.

Olympic road race? Tour de France? Tour of Britain? Is this a blanket ban?

Closed road events have to go through a clear process of notification and authorisation, as indeed to any other races, time trials, parades and street parties.

Sportives don't fit in with any of the formal regulatory schemes, they are totally unregulated - now, this a loophole that I don't think its unreasonable to close, as the route etc. impacts on the safety of the riders as much as other road users or local residents.

Sportives don't fit in with any of the formal regulatory schemes, they are totally unregulated

but...all traffic (in the respect that people are free to use the road when and where they feel like) is unregulated...as long as the organisers follow the law, I don't think there needs to be any more legislation specifically aimed at cyclists, does there?

bongohoohaa - Member
I think the thread is 50/50 split between those who know the OP is mildly trolling, and people taking this shit seriously.

Nah, I think there's a fair few that are neither and just here to take the piss out of both sides 🙂 😉 🙂 😉

Not sure whether the OP's post was trolling, but most public don't understand the difference between a road race, a sportive and a club ride and just see a bunch of people on bikes getting in the way. Many years since I rode a sportive in the UK because of poor riding and people being d*cks. I don't even road race anymore for the similar reasons - poor rider discipline and frequent crashes and trashing wheels due to cr@ppy roads / potholes. Ironically, a lot is down to people doing their own thing, Strava etc and not learning the discipline of riding in a group, choosing routes appropriate for the size of the group etc. I do feel there needs to be more governance around sportives, similar to road races in terms of routes, notification and clearing up afterwards - most events are run for profit and they should bear full-responsibility for their costs like removing litter and direction arrows.

Nice use of the word 'lacuna'

Sportives need to branch out to provide more variety and improve local economies.

There should be sportive crits in deprived areas eg Glasgow Gorbals etc. Provide a Crit loop, name it something like 'King of the Crits', award jerseys (yellow, green, white and polka dot), publish explicit and detailed timing data and see the positive effect 1,000 Audis and associated Colnagos have on local gumtree/A&E. Racing licences bar entry.

Oh please let it happen

but...all traffic (in the respect that people are free to use the road when and where they feel like) is unregulated...as long as the organisers follow the law, I don't think there needs to be any more legislation specifically aimed at cyclists, does there?

If someone is holding a large scale *event*, then yes, I think its reasonable to expect that that event is regulated in some way in order to ensure safety, minimum disruption on traffic and local communities. I would apply that just as much to a car rallye or similar.

It also already applies to other events, such as concerts, festivals etc. which may have a similar effect, and which have to be notified to the authorities in advance. As I say, sportives exist in a regulatory gap whereby they do not have to be authorised or notified in advance, which makes them pretty much unique.

I would ban them from suggesting they are supporting charities when they dont and are clearly just money makers for opportunists.

However even though with the exception of ride london I wouldn't do one, I think overall they are a positive thing as they get people into cycling.

Regulation - Yes
Banned - No

Googles "lacuna"

There should be sportive crits in deprived areas eg Glasgow Gorbals etc. Provide a Crit loop, name it something like 'King of the Crits', award jerseys (yellow, green, white and polka dot)

Red, White and Blue Jerseys, with a Green and White Striped one for the KOM?

Yeah but RL is on closed roads. Completely different kettle of jellied eels.

I've done a couple, up in Yorkshire and for the most part the roads were very quiet. Only one irate idiot in a Volvo (or was it a Saab?) Came flying down the (single lane) road at about 90mph in the opposite direction with his hand mashed into the horn. ****.

Both rides were chock full of dickheads though - clearly never been on a group/club ride before.

Banned? I'm not sure... but think they should have far fewer competitors and no timing aspect.

Sportifs should be properly regulated with compulsory organisers insurance and route approval from police / council etc. They are not a club run and they are a race in all senses of the word

I always felt sorry for the guys doing time trials up and down the A3, how miserable that must be

I think its reasonable to expect that that event is regulated in some way in order to ensure safety, minimum disruption on traffic and local communities

I understand the point your making but trying to put those into definitions would probably make them so cumbersome as to be unworkable, or meaningless. We're talking middle class folk on bicycles here, not a motorcycle gang, after all.

Code of conduct perhaps? like the countryside code?

As someone who spent their student days commuting through the Gorbals I reckon this would be a great sponsorship opportunity for the likes of Buckhaven or White Lightening 😉

I always felt sorry for the guys doing time trials up and down the A3, how miserable that must be

All time trials are miserable experiences. You're not really there to take in the scenery.

I say make them carry their gels in a johnny bag.

I understand the point your making but trying to put those into definitions would probably make them so cumbersome as to be unworkable, or meaningless. We're talking middle class folk on bicycles here, not a motorcycle gang, after all.

As I say, an organised TT involving 10 or 20 riders has to be notified to the police in advance, including details of the route, expected number of riders etc.

a sportive involving hundreds, potentially more, doesn't

Thats obviously got to be wrong.

As I say, an organised TT involving 10 or 20 riders has to be notified to the police in advance, including details of the route, expected number of riders etc.

Do sportives also have the same requirements around risk assessment and signage for drivers?

I guess you could argue that an Audax doesn't need that level of authorisation, but then it is usually on a much smaller scale.

As I say, an organised TT involving 10 or 20 riders has to be notified to the police in advance, including details of the route, expected number of riders etc.

yeah, but they insist on banging up and down dual-carriages, the mad idiots. I suspect that that might have something to do with it, and the fact that it's a race which sportives aren't.

Yes, unfortunately they are quick courses. And everyone likes a fast time, even sportive riders who aren't racing 🙂

and the fact that it's a race which sportives aren't.

No, a TT is a 'trial of speed' rather than a race

Though I can't see how any sportive that records and publishes finishing times does not also fall foul of this.