Road rager

I've noticed drivers are getting so irate over little things since lockdown (it feels to me).

We witnessed 2 ladies in at least their 50s having a massive swear up and honking their horns at one another in the car park the other day. One had started to reverse into a space, and the other had just driven forwards into the same space from the other direction.

They both lost their minds to anger, despite the spaces to either side being empty. Madness.

Don't let that **** ruin your day, as you know he's already forgotten about it.

presumably coked up

I am sure this accounts for a lot of the really stupid driving I increasingly see on the roads these days (both on the bike and in the motor), and the (over-)reactions of stupid drivers like the one described here, sorry to hear it spoiled your ride @cookeaa it would mine too, but yes, you're right to get it off your chest here, lots of sympathetic ears and eyes among us.

I've decided to give up on gestures and having a word.

By not talking to the people driving like idiots, I don't have to talk to them.

I've had a word a few times Once the bloke said sorry straight away and I felt like a right numty. Once the bloke told me where to go and I decided not getting stabbed was a lucky escape. Last time I was pedaling furiously to catch up and the car slowed hard with no brake lights ( handbrake?). I almost smashed into the back of the car.

None of them were going to change their behaviour.

I keep thinking about a camera on the commuter and road bike to report it. At least they are more likely to listen to the police than me. Or at least be inconvenienced.

Hope you can relax after that cookeeaa. It took me several days to wind down after each of those incidents.

The dude was just unhinged, the first thing I foolishly said before I got a good look at him was "did you want a ****ing medal?" I re-evaluated when I saw the red face, bloodshot eyes, cranked neck muscles and clearly uncontrollable rage at having had his god-like driving questioned. He was close to getting out, and I knew I was buggered if he did. Hence telling him to get on with his day, it seemed to defuse it enough for him to screach off having proven he is the big man...

I suppose that's the problem with making gestures at dangerously driven Mercs, they are cars beloved by Grandads, Drug dealers and all points in between.

I'm not so foolish as to think I could ever win at fisticuffs with that type of bloke (or anyone really) I'm not a fighter. Plus I'd just ridden 40 odd miles in the rain.

I've only ever encountered two proper road rage sufferers, both were Mercedes drivers, just saying.

I’ve decided to give up on gestures and having a word.

So have I generally, it was, by my previous standards, a pretty tame response to the move he made and I was almost home, probably the worst time to get in an altercation... But still they keep acting like this. I think he might just have been angry already and I was the lycra clad prick that crossed his path today...

Still it's done with now, nobody actually came to any harm.

I will never understand the mentality of someone who is in such a tearing hurry that they can't be delayed for several seconds by a cyclist, yet have the time for a ten minute argument about it at the roadside.  Schrodinger's C**t.

I’m not so foolish as to think I could ever win at fisticuffs with that type of bloke (or anyone really) I’m not a fighter. Plus I’d just ridden 40 odd miles in the rain.

Just console yourself that this is probably his usual reaction and way he lives his life and he will do it to others.... and will probably do it to the wrong person who will punch his lights out.

If his chosen profession is as you suspect, eventually he'll either end up up the clink or (hopefully) have a run-in with someone higher up in the 'industry' and end up in a shallow pit.

No chance to nick his keys and cycle off?  Shame.

I was on the borrowdale bus recently, single track road with passing places.  Guy in car coming the other way wouldn't give way, to a bus, and was shouting at bus driver to reverse.

Standoff went on for 5 mins, eventually said angry driver reversed.  Whole bus started clapping at bus driver.

I will never understand the mentality of someone who is in such a tearing hurry that they can’t be delayed for several seconds by a cyclist, yet have the time for a ten minute argument about it at the roadside.  Schrodinger’s C**t.

See, that’s where you’ve made the mistake, you thought that they saw you as a person/cyclist/equal.  You were just an obstacle to be overcome.  Like a mobile traffic cone or ants on a sunbed to be dealt with however he sees fit.  You meant nothing to them, until you reminded them that you’re a human at which point you became objectionable to them. I doubt they even really saw you to begin with.

This is what needs to change.

I will never understand the mentality of someone who is in such a tearing hurry that they can’t be delayed for several seconds by a cyclist, yet have the time for a ten minute argument about it at the roadside.  Schrodinger’s C**t.

such people cannot be reasoned with as they have demonstrated a complete lack of any amount of reasoning or logic. Don’t engage, send the video if you have one to the plod.

There was a good R4 Today interview last week (Friday I think) about people submitting helmet and dash cam footage. Had a cycling instructor and an officer from Midlands police who both put really good points across despite the best efforts of the presenter trying and failing to draw them into the usual vigilante cyclist garbage. At least they didn't have a pro law breaking motorist on for "balance".

If his chosen profession is as you suspect,

Oh I've been projecting all sorts of ideas onto him. I mean who buys an E-class, but doesn't buy the estate version? Airport shuttle drivers perhaps, but every one of those I've met seem incredibly placid and calm, they just waft to and from Heathrow all day with CEOs in the back.

I think part of the reason he was so angry is because he bought the wrong drug dealer Merc, he should have gotten black CLA with illegal window tints... Like my mate Tim (who works in finance).

I was on the borrowdale bus recently, single track road with passing places.

On a list of people it's probably pointless to try to intimidate, Borrowdale bus drivers would be fairly near the top.

and threatening to get out and ‘punch me up‘ whatever that meant.

That one is a similar vein to 'PUT YOUR F**ING MOUTH SHUT!' of yore.

If you think about it Mr merc has bought his powerful fast motorcar and can't use its power and speed because of all the other mr mercs. This causes him to be vexed and seek to blame cyclists and pedestrians who are not the cause of the problem.

I stopped reacting to bellends like this after having a roll around on the floor with a driver who threatened to put my light out with a hammer.

No one came away from that one looking good.

Either report it or just let it go.

such people cannot be reasoned with as they have demonstrated a complete lack of any amount of reasoning or logic. Don’t engage,

This. The chances of some driver who's just (presumably deliberately) cut you up to force their way through a non-existent gap going "gosh, yes, you're right, what a **** I was, I'm terribly sorry, I'll take much more care in future" is pretty much nil. At best you'll get a loud **** OFF! and at worst, you'll get some idiot with serious anger management issues jumping out the car with a weapon.

I long ago gave up on any thoughts of engaging with any such behaviour although thankfully the genuinely dangerous ones are few and far between.

There's just nutters out there, and occasionally you meet one.

I was cycling downhill in 20mph zone last week, on a residential street, at going to school time. With me already doing just over 20mph, someone decided to overtake me round a blind corner and into a right turn junction on the wrong side of the road. They then brake check me back down to 20mph, then zoom off. At the bottom of the hill is a queue turning right into the main road. As I pass on the left, heading to turn left, I get matey shouting at me out the car last a frightened looking school kid...

Apparently I was speeding and the overtaker wasn't happy with that...!

You're thinking about it too much, stuff like this happens, not much you can do about it, you do hand signals or shout and it can set off idiots, just try and turn off and ignore them as best you can, he's probably down the pub just now not even thinking about you, so why waste time thinking about him.

The chances of some driver who’s just (presumably deliberately) cut you up to force their way through a non-existent gap going “gosh, yes, you’re right, what a * I was, I’m terribly sorry, I’ll take much more care in future” is pretty much nil. At best you’ll get a loud * OFF! and at worst, you’ll get some idiot with serious anger management issues jumping out the car with a weapon.

This. There is nothing to be gained by responding with any sort of "gesture".

I stopped reacting to bellends like this after having a roll around on the floor with a driver who threatened to put my light out with a hammer.

Very similar happened to me except it was a really fat young guy and after a bit of a wrestle I thought he was having a heart attack and was going to die on me. I bought a camera after that, it helps me not react.although I still do sometimes.

I’ve decided to give up on gestures and having a word.

This is what I say I will do but when in the situations I still seem to throw out a hand gesture and the people who stop after seeing any hand gesture are those I am never going to convince their driving was shit so I realise how stupid it is.  Maybe I am almost as bad as they are...

Why are all road ragers/ poor drivers charactures?

I'd guess it's more to do with entitled/ambivalent driving than it is with poor driving.  They are in their space, their car, their bubble,  and you're in THEIR space and they either don't see you or see you as invading their whatever.

I’d guess it’s more to do with entitled/ambivalent driving than it is with poor driving.  They are in their space, their car, their bubble,  and you’re in THEIR space and they either don’t see you or see you as invading their whatever

But what marks a reasonable person out from a road rager - or do reasonable people become road ragers?

Do you come to event guns loaded so to speak?

You lost me with the coked up drug dealing wife beating assumptions

Like many above, I used to react and verbally give it back or gesture with an instant coffee shake, but in the end, that would leave me more wound up for the day, than if I just shrugged, decided the bellend was a bellend and let it go. That and like the OP found out, bellends do stop, get out and are very willing for a fight. I had a bellend stop his car in the middle of the road, get out and give chase on foot, all because I filtered past him in slow traffic. He yelled some abuse from his car, I reacted with a coffee shake and he went nuclear and started sprinting down the road after me. Seemed quite determined to have a fight, so I think it's to best stay well clear of this sort of road rager.

This kind of thing always reminds me of when some nobber in an Audi did similar to me and my mate on a ride. At which point my sizable pal offered him a square go at side of road. His big balls suddenly shrunk to the size of peanuts and he quickly drove off muttering to himself

My point being, console yourself that sooner or later this clown will do it to the wrong person, and karma will be delivered..

I sometimes just give a thumbs down which seems less escalatory and occasionally if I've gotten into a bickering match asked them if they're a nervous driver as if so, dealing with cyclists on the road could be stressful and they'll learn to get better in time (said in a completely genuine manner)

There is no point. You might as well try and convince the cat mice are better than fish.

I used to react and the more miles I did, the more the cumulative exposure to this sort of thing wound me up. It culminated in an incident which cannot be repeated. So I stopped reacting,  stopped getting wound up and now concentrate more on avoidance than responding.

You lost me with the coked up drug dealing wife beating assumptions

TBF I did (briefly) interacted with the guy, which you didn't.

While I doubtless have all sorts of bias and prejudices, if the way he behaves towards total strangers over a minor disagreement regarding road safety is anything to go by, my assumptions probably aren't that wild...

Feel free to defend the chap though if you have some sort of insights we are missing...

Had you stated just facts and not assumptions,and not given the driver the Five finger shuffle then I would have been 100,% on your side. I have learnt over the years that it's not wise to do anything to escalate a situation where you are incredibly vulnerable.

Another one who tries not to react after an incident where a driver got cautioned for assault(ing me.)

I do sometimes still shout and gesture, it's a stress release, although my threshold for shit driving to react to is higher than a lot of mates.

While riding our tandem a few weeks ago. An idiot driver tried to squeeze past on a tight lane before a bend. I screamed really loudly and hubby gave the coffee shake. The bloke stops dead, gets out and says what’s our problem. Telling us my screaming scared his 5 yr old. Turns out I recognise Bloke and child as the drug dealing friends of our adjoined neighbours. Had the child not been there, things could have really escalated.
yes too many inconsiderate raving loony’s on the rd atm.

Report it to the police? My cop buddy who've I've just asked says it's a "Sect 4 public order offence - threatening behaviour".

Forces differ but nothing to lose by flagging it.

I tend to go with nothing more than an "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed" shake of the head

Another one who tries not to react after an incident where a driver got cautioned for assault(ing me.)

I do sometimes still shout and gesture, it’s a stress release, although my threshold for shit driving to react to is higher than a lot of mates.

All about 'reasonableness' innit. If you've narrowly escaped being knocked of your pedal iron and you get that dump of fear and adrenaline, the cops are fairly content that it is a reasonable response.

Threatening to punch chunks out of someone in response is not. So yeah intentionally escalating may be foolish, but there's not really a definable offence for giving the hand shandy gesture, whereas there is for threatening violence on someone.

Had you stated just facts and not assumptions,and not given the driver the Five finger shuffle then I would have been 100,% on your side. I have learnt over the years that it’s not wise to do anything to escalate a situation where you are incredibly vulnerable.

**** me, I'd love your level of serenity and zen. Are you the Dalai Lama?

Had you stated just facts and not assumptions,and not given the driver the Five finger shuffle then I would have been 100,% on your side. I have learnt over the years that it’s not wise to do anything to escalate a situation where you are incredibly vulnerable.

Indeed, but I had already acknowledged that the 5 knuckle shuffle gesture and my opening remarks wer unwise on my part further up the page. Would that I was as sage as you, internet stranger in the heat of the moment, so how right do you want me to tell you you are?

At the same time should we all be keeping our heads down and cowering every time a 'Big Man' starts throwing their weight (and/or vehicle) about? Is that the society we now live in?

I still think his response was disproportionate,.The incident hints at deeper issues, thus I hold my assumptions that he is a chemically augmented throbber with a short fuse was fair.

 I hold my assumptions that he is a chemically augmented throbber with a short fuse

And your excuse?

And your excuse?

I'm a tubby, middle-class bloke who goes out in public wearing Lycra sometimes?

Eeek. I can see why he got angry!

On my commute there is a mile long piece of road with a 40mph limit which goes from two lanes to one and back to two a few times. When it is one lane a central reservation makes it dangerous for cars to overtake a bike (which seems to annoys many impatient drivers). I have had a few close passes and suffered some verbal abuse on that stretch of road over the years.

A while ago a car passed me just before the road went into one lane, honked their horn then slowed right down. The passenger wound down their window and started shouting and waving their hands at me. I thought here we go, but I couldn't really see them properly or hear what they were saying from my position so ignored them. They sped up and slowed down a few times and continued to shout and wave. I thought WTFIGO, and after they slowed a third time I shouted a couple of syllables starting with F & O and gave them the gold blend fist shuffle. They quickly wound up their window and sped off.

I didn't think too much of it until next morning when I received an unexpected email from an ex colleague which read something like.... sorry if we annoyed you yesterday I was trying to attract your attention to pull over for a chat as I haven't seen you for a while, my husband said it probably wasn't the best road to do that, and you didn't seem in the mood to talk...........cue sudden realisation that I may have been the biggest throbber in the aforementioned scenario! It was all good with ex colleague after a slice of humble pie 🙂 Don't really know why I posted that, but since then I have been better at not reacting (though the threat of pissing off the wrong person should probably be a bigger deterrent).

I had a driver beep their horn a lot, shout and complain loudly as I rode across Waterloo bridge yesterday. That I chose not to use the segregated busy cycle lane upset him. That I was doing 22 mph on my folder in the middle of a lane with large 20’s painted on the road seemed to shut him up when I pointed it out politely. Normally I catch the buses at the Waterloo roundabout and they’re left in a queue showing the futility of their moaning. Makes for a good workout before the train home!

Tomorrow I’ll get the same along more 20 mph zones as I ride all the way into town.

I didn’t think too much of it until next morning when I received an unexpected email from an ex colleague which read something like…. sorry if we annoyed you yesterday I was trying to attract your attention to pull over for a chat as I haven’t seen you for a while, my husband said it probably wasn’t the best road to do that, and you didn’t seem in the mood to talk………..cue sudden realisation that I may have been the biggest throbber in the aforementioned scenario!

Reminds me of a long road ride home from work years ago. There's a horrific hill climb followed by some fast s-bends and then a great downhill where I would always be on the limit. There's not much traffic, but at some point near the top a work-style Landcruiser (78 series) comes past me. It sounds like something is shouted, but I'm pinning it so ignore. Then when I'm getting to the flatter part of the road I see he's pulled over on the left-hand verge. Bugger, what's this going to be?

The driver is out of the car and walking back up the road. Older guy, in outdoor work clothes. I'm still in fast mode and pedalling like mad and realise now i'm probably going to need to swerve at the last minute, so I intentionally don't make eye contact getting ready to make my move.

As I blast past he doesn't make any attempt to get me at all. A few hundred metres further along I think ... that guy looked familiar.

I get home and my off-road motorbike buddy Hamish (who lives at the top of the hill i'd just come down) has sent me a text saying something along the lines of "Good to see you tonight, you're a mad bugger riding all that way home from work."

I felt like a total idiot. Probably wouldn't have stopped anyway as the downhill's too much fun!

I stopped reacting to bad drivers because it affected me more than them.  If I got into a shouting match with someone I would be left wound up for the rest of the day. If I just ignored them it would be fine.  In all the arguments I have ever had only two of the drivers had ever apologized and with most it was clear nothing had changed

There was also a case earlier this year in Brussels where a cyclist was cut up by a merc driver who then stopped, got out of the car and cut them in the throat before driving off.  If someone is already angry I no longer want to wind them up further

I mean who buys an E-class, but doesn’t buy the estate version?

Do people still buy cars - or do they just lease something under a scheme that seems to provide access to a vehicle that they couldn't otherwise afford, in what seems to be an unsustainable financial model (and, I predict, will be the next PPI style compensation scheme)?

Given the above, it becomes a little clearer where the irrational behaviour comes from

I predict, will be the next PPI style compensation scheme

Not much of a prediction, it is already happening with ads from compensation companies.

I will never understand the mentality of someone who is in such a tearing hurry that they can’t be delayed for several seconds by a cyclist, yet have the time for a ten minute argument about it at the roadside.  Schrodinger’s C**t.

It's classic Chimp Paradox stuff isn't it? The bit where, in the Steve Peters model, the primeval, basic, super-strong chimp has taken over and the rational human bit has been properly sidelined. Instinctively your road-rager is reacting as it he's encountered a dangerous sabre-tooth tiger or is fighting for supremacy around the tribal camp fire with an upstart rival male etc.

Trying to make sense of road rage behaviour on a rational level - what's in it for him really etc - is pretty much pointless, but we're trying to make sense of something that\s essentially instinctive, purely emotional behaviour. It may be that the driver himself is sat at home thinking what the hell was I doing there. Or not. It doesn't really matter.

You don't have to particularly love the whole chimp model to understand that this is not rational behaviour, it's purely emotionally driven. The rational response is to avoid antagonising other road users even if they're essentially in the wrong for your own self preservation. Making gestures etc is understandable, but it's chimp-like behaviour in itself.

Ive tried very hard not to react to bell-end driving because you never know which one is the total maniac in the house. If you must confront someone, try to be really calm and rational and non-confrontational, which has worked for me a couple of times. Just explain why they made you feel unsafe.

I still think his response was disproportionate,.The incident hints at deeper issues, thus I hold my assumptions that he is a chemically augmented throbber with a short fuse was fair.

Not rational behaviour, chimp stuff. He may, in human mode, look back and be ashamed, or not. You'll never know, but the problem is partly that he's probably not 'a chemically augmented throbber with a short fuse', just as likely to be someone, possibly with challenges in his life, who's gone into an uncontrolled, emotional reaction which he may well not understand himself.

He could of course just be 'a chemically augmented throbber with a short fuse' but not necessarily.

What you can do is consciously make sure your own chimp doesn't trigger other people, even if they do something wrong.

ps: use whatever model of behaviour works for you if you don't like the whole chimp thing, but basically trying to frame this stuff rationally is a waste of time, even it it's understandable.

ps: i get the irony in using a behavioural model from semi-popular culture to try and explain behaviour in rational terms, which I'm saying is inexplicable in rational terms. Then again when my ex-GP turned out to be a rampant serial killer of old ladies, the 'rational' explanation wasn't that he had a logical motive, it was that he was simply a barking mad serial killer. Sometimes there simply is no 'rational' explanation even though we crave one.