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On my commute to work I have to turn right from a major road into a minor one at a T junction https://goo.gl/maps/V5gjTbC8Vzx the road is pretty narrow and the traffic lights only turn red on the main road if the button is pressed or traffic comes out of the side road. If I position myself in the centre of the road traffic just whizzes past in both directions without slowing usually very close to my handlebars. I often have to wait a couple of minutes or more for a gap for me to make my turn. Even for a hardened commuter this feels unpleasant and scary. If I position to the left of the centre line I stop the cars behind me for as long as it takes to make the turn making them very impatient. the pavement after the lights is a cycle lane but this does not start until after the traffic light stop line
I normally sit in the middle and accept the traffic whizzing past as this is usually quicker than using the cycleway push button traffic light crossing
Would you do as I do or sit to the left and block the traffic or go up onto the pavement at the left, join the cycleway and press the button to cross?
I am interested in others thoughts
I'd probably just us the crossing to stop the traffic for me and cross the road safely (this may not be right, but people in cars tend to feel happier waiting at a red light rather than behind a bike and much better than being in the middle of traffic whizzing past in both directions)!
If it's too busy just to nip right through the traffic then I would go onto path and use the button too. Go with your judgement - If it feels scary for a hardened commuter it probably is !!
Either wait in your lane, holding up other traffic as it would if you were in a car, or get onto the pavement and use the crossing - which is signed for cyclists. Sitting in the middle of the road is inviting an accident.
Looking at the pic, I would be in the centre of the road.
The crossing is part of the cycleway so legal for a bike to use. It just sometimes takes an age to change and I have using push button crossing even if legal for bikes.
Ta chaps
simon - do you mean centre of the road or lane? Not enough room for 1.5m clearance if you are in the centre of the road unless cars hug the kerbs - which they dont
I generally try and ride in the traffic flow too but have a couple of junctions where I've no problem with using lights to stop the traffic to either cross or make my turn.
As you say, you are vulnerable in the centre waiting to TR but if this is a bad spot and even if you take the lane, some idiot can try and squeeze past you. Try using the lights and see how that works perhaps?
Use what's available, safer and most practical compromise for speed and safety for you, not what makes you the greatest road justice warrior. It's not a symmetrical battle.
Traffic heading East won't expect there to be something in the middle of the road. Once the first car passes on your left, they'll all just follow on blindly. One wide load and you'll be pushed into the Westbound traffic.
OTOH if Westbound drivers see you waiting and holding up Eastbound traffic, someone might take pity on [s]you[/s] them and let you cross in front of them.
Is there not an alternative route? I would happily add a few extra miles on the ride to avoid or minimise time on a busy main road. I did my fair share of commuting on busy main roads in my youth and had my fair shares of close escapes, so no chance of me commuting on busy main roads 30 years on with more cars on the road, angrier and less patient drivers in bigger and heavier cars. Now when I do commute i go out of my way to stick to quieter roads, paths, gravel tracks, cutting through housing estates, parks, canal paths etc. A main road is my absolute last option.
Failing an alternative route i'd be using the crossing.
simon - do you mean centre of the road or lane?
Centre of the road.
Not enough room for 1.5m clearance if you are in the centre of the road unless cars hug the kerbs - which they dont
I realise that but it's still what I'd do.
wobbliescot - its a 1 mile commute along the main road. I could use the cycleway half a block to the south but to get on it involves a lot more junctions and it takes 2 - 4 mins more depending on the lights phasing mins more. - 7-9 instead of 5 😉
Ta for your thoughts
If I position to the left of the centre line I stop the cars behind me for as long as it takes to make the turn making them very impatient.
I often think that cyclists need to ride more like cars, as drivers know what to expect.
They'd have to wait if you were in a car.
Also drivers more likely to flash you out if you hold up a line of cars.
No worries tj, just stay safe, unfortunately the only person who's always looking out for you is you.
sounds a lot of hassle for 1 mile... I'd walk 🙂
Life is short. Don't make it any shorter than it would otherwise be by taking chances in traffic when there is a safe, easy to use alternative.
It just sometimes takes an age to change
Change your attitude to the commute, and try to make it as leisurely a mental experience as you can. If you leave sufficiently early, then so what if it takes a while for the lights to change, just use it as a chance to relax and watch the world go by.
I have using push button crossing even if legal for bikes
I presume you mean 'hate', and if so I know what you mean (if there's not a continuous stream of traffic, I will usually not push the button and will wait instead for a safe gap to cross). That said, I think any car drivers will realise that it's best for them as well if you use the crossing, so I would not hesitate to use it. If it really bothers you, you could always walk across the crossing.
[quote=slowster ]
It just sometimes takes an age to change
Change your attitude to the commute, and try to make it as leisurely a mental experience as you can. If you leave sufficiently early, then so what if it takes a while for the lights to change, just use it as a chance to relax and watch the world go by.
TJ - you and I have discussed your perception of commuting motorists as always being stressed out and rushing for no reason. Sound familiar?
slowster its for a 7 am start - I can't do leisurely !
Not stressed out or rushing Scotroutes - just averse to wasting time and quite honestly I had not really thought about it until the last few days
I realised that my usual approach ie use the roads as I am entitled to and avoid rubbish cycleways was actually putting me in danger hence the pondering and I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought
I'm usually one for taking the middle of my lane and behaving like a car (including busting a gut to do car like speeds where possible) around town, but if its genuinely taking 2 mins making yourself a hate target in the yellow box, i think i'd just take to the path and use the crossing.
but if its genuinely taking 2 mins making yourself a hate target in the yellow box, i think i'd just take to the path and use the crossing.
I wouldn't go into the yellow box until my exit was clear.
It's not the exit that's holding him up, it's the oncoming traffic. if you were in a car you'd move into the yellow box. Why wouldn't you do it on a bike?
simon - thats the correct positioning [i]when turning right[/i] Its the only time you are allowed to sit in a yellow box.
I often think that cyclists need to ride more like cars, as drivers know what to expect.
While I get your point, it's just not possible unless you are able to move at the same speed as the motor traffic all the time. Even then the driver still sees a bike and not a car in front of them and acts according to their experience / judgement / prejudice.
Pavement and crossing, the middle of that junction does not look like a good place to be.
Drivers will be paying attention to the crossings, traffic from the right, McD's, you're the last thing on their minds.
It's not the exit that's holding him up, it's the oncoming traffic. if you were in a car you'd move into the yellow box. Why wouldn't you do it on a bike?
I don't do it in a car
simon - thats the correct positioning when turning right Its the only time you are allowed to sit in a yellow box.
I prefer not to 🙂
Aaaaand it's time to leave the discussion.....
is that a hint? 😉
I'd be hogging the lane. As mentioned above, the oncoming traffic would be more likely to let you across, if you're holding a line of cars up.
Aaaaand it's time to leave the discussion.....
Just because you're allowed to do something doesn't mean you have to and it isn't necessarily the best action.
I don't do it in a car
In that case you will be unnecessarily impeding the flow of traffic. When the lights change and stop oncoming traffic, there will only be a short window of opportunity for cars to turn right before they too are stopped by the lights, depending upon the sequencing and whether there is a right turn green signal. If one or two cars are in the box already, then that could make a significant difference to the length of traffic that builds up behind them, which could have a cumulative effect over multiple sequences of the light.
Tricky one. I'd either give big signals and shoulder checks while slowing to halt in the centre of the lane or another option would be nipping across through the oncoming traffic before the junction if there was a gap. Bunny hop onto the pavement then rejoin the road at an appropriate spot round the corner.
In fact looking back the pavement on the other side has very few gates,drives etc. I'd look for a gap well before the junction and nip across. Then use the pavement until round the corner. Better crossing the traffic at a favourable moment well before the junction than getting there and having the choice between going left off the road or stopping traffic if you are not comfortable doing it.
I have done that one IRC ( cross early and ride down the RHS pavement)- but that illegal and sets a bad example and makes all car drivers hate us and it could be a baby robins face next time 😉
Illegal or safe? I choose safe.
TJ - you and I have discussed your perception of commuting motorists as always being stressed out and rushing for no reason. Sound familiar?
Not stressed out or rushing Scotroutes - just averse to wasting time
Those car drivers you were discussing with Scotroutes are probably also just averse to wasting time.
The smell from the sewerage works near there is rank - even so, I'd take the extra couple of minutes to use the crossing.
The pedestrian/cycle green light at that junction takes longer to turn green than any other I know. 2 minutes I think - I did hope it would lessen now that the flats are being used. Hence I can see your reluctance to go onto the shared path and await the light change. However, during rush hour you are unlikely to get a break in Westbound traffic. Despite them moving so slowly they're not going to let you through.
In short, if busy I'd stop and use the button for the light.
I'm a confident commuter, but there is no way I would position myself to block the traffic on that particular road. If you aren't happy sitting in the middle of the road, the crossing is a no-brainer. Particularly since you might struggle to make the turn without the lights changing. I also can't really see why you don't nip round the links cyclepath in any case. I can't imagine it makes much of a difference once you take into account the time it takes you to make the right turn.
Is there any way you can cut through the cemetery?
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @55.9682795,-3.14632,3a,60y,332.02h,84.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scuxf7KwU2KFwhjh_mvJLlA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]Coming out here?[/url]
Go up the ramp in the links and along the bike path?
I'd block the traffic behind to avoid being buzzed, personally, but if it's really bad I'd look to avoid it rather than put up with it.
If you turn right a little sooner https://goo.gl/maps/Jq6w5V4dTCP2
you can get to the railway path https://goo.gl/maps/M2hzQE42PR92
which pops out here https://goo.gl/maps/7X96xm25gQ92
As others have said, it sounds like the lights are very slow to change, so either stop the traffic behind (I'm assuming this is faster than waiting for the light) or find an alternative route.
I could use the cycleway as above - I do when riding for fun. However it takes a surprising amount of time longer to do so.
I shall try using the light crossing this morning ( unless there is a break in the traffic
As said above, shanks pony, 1 mile is not worth getting bike out for. And walking will probably be better for you.
Getting the bike out? Its in my hall - I have to walk past it 🙂