[Closed] Road position and advice for high banked tight lanes

I did a bit of advanced (motorbike) rider training.
They suggest you ride as far out into a corner in order to see what's coming.
Feels very counter intuitive, you feel terribly exposed but ultimately gives you more control.

If some idiot is coming through a blind bend too fast to stop in the distance he/she can see, there is not much that can be done.

On the similar corners near me, I will try to take a wider position so that, in theory, the idiot will see me slightly sooner (and vice versa), but of course that makes it harder to get out of the way. Jeremy Vine style horn is probably the only extra method you could employ.

You would hope that, on some of the sunken lanes you're probably talking about, drivers would be aware that flying around the corners will usually eventually mean going head-on into another metal box, but it doesn't seem to have sunk in to a few of the locals.

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CLCAPRKRTC/carnac-parky-reflective-toe-cover

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Reflective material on your moving legs/feet are great for getting noticed, I have top two, been using them both this last week on evening rides.

Better price for Hornit, will be ordering one with my next Merlin order, £15. https://www.merlincycles.com/hornit-db140-cycle-horn-56101.html

I did a bit of advanced (motorbike) rider training.
They suggest you ride as far out into a corner in order to see what’s coming.
Feels very counter intuitive, you feel terribly exposed but ultimately gives you more control.

This - I did a drive to survive course many years ago (Cars) and it was their advice too - obviously within reason so as not to stray on the wrong side but the idea being you see things round the corner sooner and can react. So it's the opposite of taking the "racing line". Its quite surprising how much difference moving the car position left or right 1-2 ft within your lane makes to visibility round the bend.

For the single car width lanes I ride from the house I ride on the right coming up to left handers where possible - you can see further and a car can see you more quickly. The problem is that the centre of the road is full of gravel and other crap so you run a higher risk of puncturing due to constantly crossing the centre. I also ride much more slowly than on a normal road.

Where you can be seen and see best - so right over on the left at right hand bends and vice versa

yup, get outside at the corners but it still scares the shit out of me - there's a "notorious" just outside the new forest hill climb segment that also doubles as a rally special stage down the other side. I bloody hate riding it

LH bend on a narrow road can be a real hazard. It's a RH bend for the oncoming driver, so they're on the inside of the bend and can't see. If you stay on the left, they'll see the empty road to your right, conclude that there's not a car coming and so therefore there's nothing coming.

So move to the right, but be ready to brake and move to the left if there is something coming... which can be tricky if the middle of the road is full of gravel.

I'd also recommend a bright rear light. Obviously won't help with oncoming traffic, but increases the chance that a car approaching quickly from behind will see you before you disappear around a corner in the distance.

tbh cyclists are a bit ****ed on that style of road.....

Theres a dash cam video doing the rounds on facebook just now on the trucking pages of a red focus going for the racing line on a similar road at speed......

he met a DAF tractor unit with a milk tank on the back head on.

The aftermath was not pretty.

if these people dont anticipate trucks being there what hope have we got ?

Stay left for a right bend and move right for a left bend. You'll see cars earlier coming towards you and you'll be seen later by cars following.

How about a drone flying above and ahead and beaming the pictures to a screen on your handlebars?

In fact I've been toying with the idea of a rear view camera with a screen on the bars. Also switchable, front and rear, so when your neck muscles get tired on a road bike (or when TTing) you can just look down to see where you're going.

Lots of lanes like this around where I live. On blind bends stick as close to the left as you can. venturing into the middle of the road or opposite side wont give you much more visibility around the bend due to the high sides and if something is coming the other way it is usually a big f-off tractor taking up 3/4 of the width of the road anyway and coming at some speed and you wont spot it until it is right in front of you......Absolutely lethal and I've had a few close shaves when I've had to dart to the left and only just missed it...the tractor doesn't stand a chance in avoiding you so you have to take evasive manoeuvres. If I wasn't paying attention and was half a second slower to react things could have ended up very messy indeed! So i'll always stick as far over to the left as I can.

On more open lanes its a different story, but on narrow high sided lanes you really need to be careful.

Interesting points...my instinct on a left hander is to stay left - will a driver (or you) have enough reaction time to do anything if you are sat much further out?

Interestingly (OK, not that interesting!), I recently drove for the first time some of the very small singletrack lanes I ride regularly. I was staggered by the lack of visibility - going around a right hand corner I could see about 2m of road, with nowhere to go if someone came round in the opposite direction. It made me consider how I should be cycling them - more slowly!

Increasing numbers of quiet electric vehicles are going to make this more risky too I suspect although tyre noise is a big component of what we hear.

Interesting points…my instinct on a left hander is to stay left – will a driver (or you) have enough reaction time to do anything if you are sat much further out?

They will see you sooner (and vice versa), give them more time to react, you more time to react, and easily enough time to dive back into the edge of the road where you would have been anyway.

I've always done it, although I can't say oncoming traffic has ever really been a problem, but the lanes I ride tend to have very little traffic on them. You can also generally hear them coming if they're giving it any beans. I do it on regular roads to allow traffic behind to see me, which I think is a bigger danger where it's normal to take blind bends at or above the speed limit.

venturing into the middle of the road or opposite side wont give you much more visibility around the bend due to the high sides

I can't agree with this. It can make a huge difference.

I do it on regular roads to allow traffic behind to see me, which I think is a bigger danger where it’s normal to take blind bends at or above the speed limit.

Good point, although speed limit isn't really relevant, just too fast to stop in the distance that they can see to be clear, which is typically quite a lot less than the limit.

In both scenarios, a big part of the danger is drivers assuming that because the part of the lane that they can see is clear, then the rest of it is clear too.

I tend to go wide coming into the bend, then move to the outside once past it - my thinking is that this way I'm visible for as long as possible beforehand, and once "invisible" I'm in the safest position. Once a car has taken the bend behind me I'll be visible whether I'm in the middle of the lane or not, and off to the side I'll be much easier to avoid.

I tend to go wide coming into the bend, then move to the outside once past it – my thinking is that this way I’m visible for as long as possible beforehand, and once “invisible” I’m in the safest position. Once a car has taken the bend behind me I’ll be visible whether I’m in the middle of the lane or not, and off to the side I’ll be much easier to avoid.

Something like that, stay wide to be visible to cars in either direction as far as possible (but not so far that you can get out of the way in the distance a speeding car can see you), into the apex to avoid anything oncoming, then back to the center AFTER the corner (i.e. not a racing line, stay tight to the edge until I know it's clear).

venturing into the middle of the road or opposite side wont give you much more visibility around the bend due to the high sides

I can’t agree with this. It can make a huge difference.

Zero chance on narrow high sided lanes. Just a function of geometry. The point where the two road edges converges is a function of bend radius and road width. On wider or more open lanes sure, I agree. If you can’t see them they can’t see you and on a tight blind narrow bend with thigh hedges or embankments even on the other side of the road you can see diddly squat.

Maybe our references are different because if you rode the lanes I’m referring to you’d see.

I would say it does depend on the road.

I also have my advanced motorbike licence and I'd always position for vision (so I can see round the corner, but in turn they can see me), but usually within my lane

My only caveat on narrow lane positioning is road surface. If I'm going right and there is a band of gravel/mud/grass in the centre of the lane, I won't cross it. because if a vehicle is oncoming and I'm positioned for vision, I'd have to cross this band and that would be another hazard.

In general, on blind lanes, you can't ride anything like as fast as you think you can. Simple.

I also have my advanced motorbike licence and I’d always position for vision (so I can see round the corner, but in turn they can see me), but usually within my lane

Not directly applicable, though - on a motorbike you can get away from the corner a lot faster, there's very little risk of having some idiot boy racer driving into the back of you.

That central band of loose chippings is lethal on slick tyres, no way would I want to have to get across it in a hurry, I'll slow to stop rather than travel on it on my road bike slicks.

if these people dont anticipate

This.

I also have my advanced motorbike licence and I’d always position for vision (so I can see round the corner, but in turn they can see me), but usually within my lane

But if the vanishing point is so tight that no vision is gained compromising safety, through sub-optimal road position (sticking yourself out in the middle of a lane) for a frustrated sight line, is a no.

There’s not going to be one answer fits all for twisty tight lanes on a bike, sometimes the answer will be moving for better sight lines other times it’s going to be a massive reduction in speed or having the option of a bale out to the side. There are lots of lanes like this near the in-laws in Somerset, one of the reasons I said I’d never move there

You always get better sight lines both for you and to cars both ways going wide on lefts and tight on rights

All of the above and listen. You can usually hear a tosser ragging it.

Didn't help my mate near cockermouth a couple of weeks ago. He heard the motorbike engine giving it blat and then heard it again as it ripped the sump off his van. Everyone walked away, GoPro mysteriously vanished though.

There’s not going to be one answer fits all for twisty tight lanes on a bike, sometimes the answer will be moving for better sight lines other times it’s going to be a massive reduction in speed or having the option of a bale out to the side.

This. Applying one technique to all situations is something only a fool would do.

As above it’s all too variable depending on where you are.

The little lanes I ride it’s just a case of keeping to the left as tend to be a central gravel patch, listening, and going far slower than you would think, to the point going down hill is just as slow as going up.

Fact is you are always going to loose against a bigger heavier object

I also have my advanced motorbike licence and I’d always position for vision (so I can see round the corner, but in turn they can see me),

Safety, stability, view...in that order. I'll avoid going wide on my bicycle if its too gravelly. I will also move in going round the actual bend usually so give myself the best view on entry but when it comes to it, if the view is that restricted I move in, not sure I'd do it different on the motorbike tbh, but I dont really ride down such lanes. The other thing to remember is the golden rule, be able to stop in the distance you can see.