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Help me out here if you can please. I'm stuck and really not sure why.
MrsAmbrose has a ten year old Giant Avail road bike. It is pretty much stock with a 9 speed Sora groupset but the wheels have been upgraded to Mavic Askium Elites about 6? years ago. There is a shim behind the 9 speed cassette. It runs perfectly. Apart from the gearing she adores the bike.
But... MrsAmbrose wants an easier climbing gear so we have gone wild and purchased ten speed stuff. Unhappilly It seems that it doesn't want to play nicely together which is really annoying tbh.
Up front we now have a new Shimano Tiagra 2x10 chainset FC-4700
We are using a new 10 speed HG chain
Rear wheel + hub is Mavic Askium Elite from 2017? There is a spacer present for the Sora 9 Speed set up that I have left in place.
Cassette is a new 10 speed Shimano, a CS-HG50-10
Rear mech is a new XT RD 786 SGS 10 speed
Shifters are Shimano Tiagra dual control levers ST4700, 2X 10speed, again brand new.
I have been led to believe that this set up would be happy together but it seems not.
#1 There seems to be no barrel adjuster to fine tune tension
#2 I can dial in the top 8 gears OR the bottom 8 gears of the ten speed range. I cannot get the full range.
Can anyone suggest a fix that will allow me to sort this problem and thus get a hug from MrsA?
Rear mech will not be compatible. I’d suggest a GRX400 10 speed mech which will be compatible with the cable pull of your Tiagra shifters and has a decent range and a clutch.
Cheers
Try a 9 -speed MTB mech.
Really.
Yep, 9sp Mtb rear mech has same pull ratio as road. That should sort it.
9 speed MTB mech will not work with 4700 Tiagra. The cable pull on 4700 Tiagra is different from other 10 speed groups; it is the same as the 11 speed road groups. Only Tiagra and GRX400 rear mechs are officially compatible. 11 speed road/gravel mech might work.
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?acid=C-454&cid=C-453
alanw2007 has it.
Tiagra has a different pull.
Tiagra rear mech only goes to 34t iirc.
Front mech might need changing too.
For the barrel adjuster fit an inline one into the cable. Normally in the loop shortly after the shifter as you can fiddle with it there while moving.
I think I have a 4700 Tiagra rear mech you could have for cheap, if that's what's needed here?
4700 is only compatible with its self and 11 speed Shimano road afaik
Another +1 for the in line adjuster. Don’t forget the b-screw finesse either. Finally your front derailleur will be fine. It doesn’t care about speed, just set the limit screws.
I have a new 4700 long cage I keep meaning to eBay if it's of use
Finally your front derailleur will be fine. It doesn’t care about speed, just set the limit screws
The pull ratio is different. I had to change my old 10 speed Ultegra front mech as it wouldn't play nicely with 5800 shifters. It's worth trying but I suspect a new front mech will be required.
You can sort of bodge the Tiagra indexing to work by putting a 1mm spacer into the cassette. From memory it was between 3rd and 4th but it might have been between 2nd and 3rd (depends what your cassette spiders allow). It isn't perfect, but it does make it usable for no more spend.
Tiagra 10sp brifters have the same cable pull as 11sp and are not compatible with any MTB derailleur.
Shimano MTB 10spd rear derailleurs are not compatible with any drop bar shifters.
If you want a 10sp wide ratio rear cassette and Shimano drop bar shifters, you need to get hold of an secondhand pair of 105 or Ultegra 10sp brifters, and a 9spd MTB derailleur.
I'm running Ultegra 10sp shifters with a 9sp XT rear derailleur and the indexing is perfect.
If you want a 10sp wide ratio rear cassette and Shimano drop bar shifters, you need to get hold of an secondhand pair of 105 or Ultegra 10sp brifters, and a 9spd MTB derailleur.
I have Tiagra 10sp shifters with a GRX mech and Deore 10sp cassette, so that's another option.
I have Tiagra 10sp shifters with a GRX mech and Deore 10sp cassette, so that’s another option.
Good call, and that will work with the Tiagra shifters, that the OP has.
Many, many thanks for the advice folks. Unfortunately my LBSs is out of GRX 400 mechs so I have one coming tomorrow from CRC. I really hope it turns up because MrsAmbrose has an event this weekend.
Ambrose
If it doesn't arrive in time then the 1mm spacer bodge does work - my kids used to race cx with that setup.
It just uses the 7 or 8 gears that you can index ok and then shunts the remaining 2 or 3 gears back into "correct" alignment.
Not sure if cassette ratios have been divulged, but the setup I was talking about is an 11-42t Deore 10sp cassette with Tiagra shifters and a GRX 812 11sp mech (to handle the 42t cog).
I knew before I even opened the thread it would be about Tiagra 4700 as that is what I have and looked at doing the MTB rear mech and MTB cassette thing and was quickly put off...
CRC have delivered... I'll stick the new bits on tonight.
Oh yes! It fits. I'm going to finish it off on Friday.
Are you all sorted then?
I think this mismatch of cable pulls is 'sorted' with CUES....(?)
It's almost done. I need to sort the new front mech and the bar tape and then it's time to set it free, to let it go, to roam the highways and lanes of Wales...
I got a hug!!! It works. But blimey, front mechs are a bit weird nowadays.
Ambrose
Late to the party but I assume you did use the full range of hi/lo adjustment on your original derailleur ? Don't mean to sound condescending but it does happen. Most derailleurs are very forgiving , they don't know how many sprockets to pass over or how big they are , it's the clicky variable pull shifters that have to be compatible with the cassette spacings while the rest is tweakable.