[Closed] Road inspired bikes off-road (aka, epicyclo is probably onto something)

Welcome to the year 2014.

took my cube nuroad out for a 24 mile green lane ride on saturday. proper good fun. cheered me up loads.

very comfy capable bike. comfier infact than my steel tourer. the 38c clement tyres are good and grippy. the carbon forks smooth the front end out. i fitted to nitto noodle bars on the front, which are wide, and a slightly shorter stem.

just all works nicely, and opens up a new vein of riding.    ace ;o)

I felt the same on my Ridley CX bike but when I swapped the bits (OK, the saddle and chainset) over to a 'gravel bike' frame and was taken by how similarly it handles to my hardtail (an old 2006 rockhopper). There must be something magical in the geometry but I also think that bigger tyres and flared drops made the most difference. Worth thinking about if you ever feel hte need to upgrade "your son's" bike.

Drop bars only really make sense on the road (and I own a CX/gravel bike) most of the point of them is to satisfy the UCI's desire to keep bikes looking like bikes.

On the other hand it's a novel challenge, if you want the same trails to be easy then ride something with modern geometry and bars 800mm wide. I quite enjoy just using it as a road bike but with the bonus that fire roads can be used too which makes for some interesting routes.

Drop bars only really make sense on the road

Sort of agree, sort of depends on the shape and position of a drop bar. Having more than one hand position makes sense on any bike that does more than one specific thing.

Was out today and yesterday on my Bokeh, with herself on her Quirk. Both 650b drop bar bikes. Yesterday with 48mm Compass road tyres we rode on roads, gravel, singletrack, double track, towpaths, old railway tracks and did about 65 miles. Today we went out with more capable tyres (Thunder Burts & Rock'n'Road) and rode Surrey Hills trails. We had a good 2 days riding. We wouldn't have done on a road bike or a mtb.

MOAB you're sound like someone who doesn't like what he doesn't understand, which is fine but it's 2018 not 1995 now.

It’s a CX bike adhering to CX rules, otherwise it’d be a Gravel bike.

Simple rough tracks have to be taken with real care at any speed

No they don’t really. Running 30PSi on 33Cs tonight and hitting roots with a disregard for the rims was fine (helps to go tubeless). Obviously you can’t ride it like a mtb, but it’s not an mtb

Wait for winter to come back around then enter a CX race. A field of 100 or so folk all trying to ride the same kind of bikes in ropey conditions makes for a great ride!

What width and size tyres are you using legend?

Perhaps the narrower bars I will get used to, but I'm still calling the steep head angle and lever ergonomics out...

It's not 'wrong', it just doesnt feel as sorted in some fundamentals as MTB's now are.

No they don’t really. Running 30PSi on 33Cs tonight and hitting roots with a disregard for the rims was fine (helps to go tubeless). Obviously you can’t ride it like a mtb, but it’s not an mtb

This. Generally, faster is better. But then so is wider rubber and lower pressures.

What width and size tyres are you using legend?

33C wide 700C, as wide as CX rules allow

Perhaps the narrower bars I will get used to, but I’m still calling the steep head angle and lever ergonomics out…

There’s nothing wrong with road STIs (Shimano or Sram), they’ve been working on them for a long long time. Not sure why you’d want a slack head angle on a bike designed for riding around a muddy park

It’s not ‘wrong’, it just doesnt feel as sorted in some fundamentals as MTB’s now are.

It wouldn’t feel as sorted as a mtb, it’s a CX bike

thisisnotaspoon

Drop bars only really make sense on the road...

I think they are good on a rigid offroad bike, especially when you're heading downhill on rough tracks, eg corrugated, somewhat rocky etc.

With your hands in the hooks you have a very secure hold on the bike but can be riding with a relatively loose open grip, which saves on wrist pain etc from the impacts.

However, it's hard to find a bar that's the right shape. It doesn't need to be a deep drop, and should not be set up like a road bike. I prefer plenty wrist clearance at the top. My perfect dropbar would be a 1960s Dawes Concorde but 2" wider.

A drop bar bike is fine for fire roads but as soon as you deviate from that and get onto some single track, come across things to hop over, wheelie over and just generally move the bike around more (i.e. the more fun parts of riding) then MTB bars make more sense.

Over the last few years I have been switching between drops, risers, flats and bullhorns on my off road fixed gear bike and settled on flat bars being best overall.  However what has made the bike feel better all round is changing the frame so I can now run 42c tyres and it now feels just like a fast rigid fixed gear mtb which is perfect for my needs.

If CX bikes became more like mountainbikes then what would be the difference between CX and mountainbiking?

Or to put it another way, if you make CX bikes more capable, you'll get more and more people moaning that courses aren't technical enough etc.

I like CX racing because it's most of the fun of MTB (corners, mud, cambers, roots, mud) without quite so much jolting and hanging up over lumpy ground etc. Give people more capable bikes and organisers will be tempted to start sticking in MTB style obstacles and features which I could quite happily do without.

I brought a CX in 2013 which I used offroad a bit, it eventually became a road bike.
Basically I agree with everything you say.

A rigid 29er with say 1.9" narrow flat handlebars is at least 5 times better as soon as you hit narrow singletrack.
However I have recently brought a "Gravel" bike and I am enjoying it alot.

I think there are alot  of factors at play.

1. Marketing : Cyclocross doesnt translate to English (ie Cross makes you think cross country ie singletrack).
Gravel or even Adventure Road bike is a better name as this is what these bikes are best at.

2. Gravel bikes are a little bit superior to CX in my opinion
a. Geometry better on road + off road at speed.
b. Tyres are better ! Wider = Better offroad , less knobs = Better OnRoad too (the only place they are worse is mud which I avoid on the Gravel Bike).

3. Geometry a bit better for road + off road at speed ( less good for tight singletrack but these bikes are rubbish for tight singletrack).

I think the original reason I got a CX is because people had said they were good for joining bits of singletrack with road streches in between. But I would agree with you that the bars on Gravel/CX are so poor that they destroy the enjoyment on the singletrack.

I've found I've enjoyed it more because Im now trying to do more "Gravel" rides ie longer distances, getting in the drops and enjoying the road sections (here the narrow bars really help), trying to keep a high average speed like on Road bike, etc..

Another thing is I've now been riding drop bar road bikes for 4 years where as when I first got the CX bike I'd been riding MTB for 15 years. I would guess I've got more comfortable with the drops in that time.

1. Marketing : Cyclocross doesnt translate to English (ie Cross makes you think cross country ie singletrack).
Gravel or even Adventure Road bike is a better name as this is what these bikes are best at.

Nonsense. Cyclocross is a specific sport, it’s a Belgian winter sport of riding around short, muddy, parkland tracks in the middle of winter for an hour at a time, with the added bonus of having to shoulder the bike from time to time (a factor that has to be taken into account in the design of any CX bike). Therefore a cyclocross bike is a cyclocross bike, not Adventure or Gravel

Perhaps the narrower bars I will get used to, but I’m still calling the steep head angle and lever ergonomics out…

If you don't adapt, maybe try some flared drops like the Salsa Cowbells and go wider. The flares give you a bit more oomph riding on the drops off road.

Personally I use my cross bike a great way of mixing up loops of back lanes, bridleways and the odd proper road. It's not what I'd take for a pure road ride or a pure off-road one, but it's better than a pure mountain bike on road and much better than a road bike off road.

I guess you can look at it the other way round and say that mountain bikes are exponentially better off road and road bikes kill it on tarmac, but then that's not really what it's about.

And generally, you do get more used to drop bars with use.

"Cyclocross is a specific sport, it’s a Belgian winter sport of riding around short, muddy, parkland tracks in the middle of winter for an hour at a time"

Exactly I dont see how your disagreeing with me.

Unless you know exactly what cyclocross is then it doesnt translate to english.

If you had never heard of that style of racing and someone said I have a cyclocross bike, my guess would be cyclo = bike , cross = cross country. Its a bike for cycling across country.

Not its a bike for "riding around short, muddy, parkland tracks in the middle of winter for an hour at a time", which as you correctly point out is what it is.

Adventure Road is the best name in my opinion and it correctly described the bikes. Gravel is also good as the bike are indeed good for gravel paths.

Im not saying Cyclocross bikes arent good for Cyclocross, but as a marketing term it is not good. (at least in English).

Adventure Road is the best name in my opinion and it correctly described the bikes. Gravel is also good as the bike are indeed good for gravel paths.

Yep. We can all mock the industry for inventing new niches in order to sell bikes but the introduction of adventure/gravel has finally given us a way to narrow down CX  bikes as something really for racing rather being a road bike with a bit of off-road thrown in. I'd say that the vast majority of mentions of CX in this forum over the years had nothing much to do with Cyclocross and much more to do with commuting.

I've said this before - but I started road riding nearly 30 years ago when it was all woollen jerseys and Ron Hills and toe clips - and although traffic density has increased massively since then the standard of driving is actually better IMHO. There's a lower proportion of driving idiots / drivers who can't or won't give a bike a bit of space but a lower proportion x a larger number means there are still too many idiots.

Back then, road riding was terrifying, so then i saw a magazine touting mountain bikes and bought one. It was pig iron, rigid, narrow tyres (1.8" was wide then), narrow bars, canti brakes (I upgraded to V's!!) - and I rode it up farm tracks and country lanes and bridleways to see what was over the other side of the next hill.

Then i read about suspension, and trail centres and disc brakes and full suspension and drop offs and..... and I went through a full range of bikes up to (at the time) an eye watering 5" each end!!  And then as i got older and kids took more time up and I realised i don't bounce like a 25 year old I came back through to a short front travel SS and a 'mile munching' 29er with only 80mm in the back.

Then i changed jobs, which became a cycle commute distance away, with the benefit I could ride here on the road but back over the ranges and fire roads around the army land. So, i got me a 'CX' (gravel was just coming in). And gradually i've grown to love it (or rather the third variant of it now) so much so that a large chunk of my riding now is up farm tracks and country lanes and bridleways to see what was over the other side of the next hill.

And it strikes me that my go-to bike nowadays is basically the same one as i started MTB'ing on 25 years ago. It's not pig iron, it's carbon fibre, and the brakes are infinitely better. The tyres are better but still the same sort of size, and the bars are almost the same width but curly instead of dead straight. Call it whatever niche you want, it's an offroad bike and it's not changed much but changed massively in the last 25 years.

I find I ride my CX bike like I used to ride my MTB in the 90's. I spent the weekend in Purbeck mixing up the road and the bridleways and it loves it all. I get your point about rough descents, you do need to be In the drops for security but it feels weird descending on the bike with head down arse up. I am really enjoying mine.

Nowadays the MTB feels much more woods specific with the full sus and huge knobblies, it is a drag for long road connections and it trashes the expensive tyres.

Clue is in the name - a proper CX bike isn't supposed to be comfy or good handling, it's about an hour of pain at max heart rate (and whatever speed that comes out as) to keep fit over winter. They are an acceptable way to mix things up a bit and do some longer routes you might not consider on an mtb, but a skinny semi slink rigid 29er would be equally as good - what you lose in one place you gain on the other.

Clue is in the name – a proper CX bike isn’t supposed to be comfy or good handling, it’s about an hour of pain at max heart rate (and whatever speed that comes out as) to keep fit over winter.

The first part of that sentence is utter tosh of the highest order, a good CX bike is comfortable, stiff in the right places, geometry dialed for doing what it's intended to do. The second part is however correct

My Gnarmac has evolved into this.

Fast enough on the tarmac ( everybody always overtakes me anyway ...), highly usable on fire-roads and more reassuring on tougher tracks.

Suits me!

The skinny tyres do have a higher ultimate top speed, but they’re so harsh and reduce contact wth ground = lower speed off road. Simple rough tracks have to be taken with real care at any speed, and by heck it’s so so stiff unless in the drops.

I took my new gravel bike out yesterday for a spin. Took in a 20km hilly-ish route that I do quite often on the MTB which has a bit of woods, a bit of rocks, a bit of tarmac and a fair amount of rough, pot-holey canal trail.

In summary, I think my teeth are still chattering (I really needed less air in the tyres!) and I had to really concentrate to keep the speed up, *but* I broke PRs on pretty much every segment I rode on, *and* was the fastest rider that day on every segment that had a decent amount of bikes on it (30+ in most cases). I'm no stealth racer and certainly not the fastest rider in the world, but yesterday, I was quicker on the gravel bike than on my 29er XC bike and that's made me sit back and think a bit about the balance between comfort and speed...

think a bit about the balance between comfort and speed

For me it it more a question of fun or speed.  My quickest times were on a 7kg track bike with 25c tyres.  The only time it was slow was on rough or muddy singletrack

Recently moved to a 9kg steel fixed gear with big tyres and it is a lot more fun, much more capable on singletrack but ultimately it is slower overall due to 2kg additional weight and probably more importantly 600 grams of that on the tyres.  I won't be moving back though as much more enjoyable on the heavier bike.

CX racing rules dictate 33mm maximum width for tyres, but there's no reason why you don't fit the biggest you can reasonably fit for 'normal' mixed trails - I've just fitted some 45mm WTC Riddlers to my SS CX/Gravel bike and they're perfect for my local trails in summer - I have other bikes with wider tyres, but 40-45mm tubeless offroad IMO is about the best compromise. The genealogy of CX/adventure/touring bikes goes way back before MTB's existed and some of us have been taking drop-barred bikes offroad before some bike company marketing wonk dreamt up a new category - don't get hung up on terminology. I have 40mm Schwalbe G-Ones fitted to my 'race' CX bike and it's nearly as fast on-road as my road-race bike, and the fastest around my local MTB XC circuit, even though I have MTBs.  If there's anyone whose a 'fashion' victim are the folks I see riding MTBs with ridiculously wide flat bars - too wide in fact to get between the trees in places on my local singletrack!

Food for thought....

I'm still positive about the bike, and will ride it lots, it just seems fashion led rather than practicality.

Epicyclo - you're right about being in drops to descend.

I'm going to drop tyre pressures and go back out tonight... Maybe middle_oab and I need to (and I'm struggling to say this) session some Strava sections and compare times Vs fun...

It's just a barrage of contradictions innit...

I'm not sure the Geometry and drop-bar criticism is valid really, you're judging a bike that's not really intended to hammer mile upon mile of rooty singletrack by comparison with MTBs?

in my mind there are several bikes being discussed here at crossed purposes:

Cyclocross (CX) bikes - should refer to "proper" race geometry, 33mm tyred CX race machines

Adventure/Gravel/Bridalslayer bikes - Often referred to as "CX bikes" but they're not for racing, they've got clearance for bigger tyres, they've got bottle bosses and rack mounts and many serve primarily as road commuters now, drops or flared drops using Road group parts etc... More efficient on the road/flat gravel than an MTB, Better offroad than a Road bike. You can still pop narrower tyres on and race CX on one of course.

Monstercross Bikes - An MTB (rigid?) with drop bars fitted...

None of the above is intended to double as an MTB...

Kerley makes a good point about dropbars.

Dropbars suitable for offroad are a different shape and different set up to road dropbars. Road set up dropbars offroad are very limiting.

Shiggy, one of the moderators on mtbr.com used to have a good article on mtbtires.com about the correct setup, but sadly it's now disappeared. Maybe you can find it if you search for "Why I Use Dropbars" by Shiggy. (I couldn't)

Basically the aim isn't really to get down and low, but to take advantage of the ability to hook in. The set up leaves your hands at about the same height as they would be with your flatbars, which is why dropbars look odd on an mtb.

They appear to be perched way up in the air on a riser stem which seems to contradict the whole point of them. Once hydraulic disks came in there was no option able to fit a dropbar, so only those who persevered with cable brakes were using them.

For example, if you look at this pic you'll see that my hands are about the same height as they would be on a flat bar with a non rise stem, even though the drops are on a riser stem.

Compared to using flat bars, there was nothing deficient in the control aspect on technical stuff (other than my ability 🙂 ).

On a rigid bike, when things get fast and bumpy, properly set up drops are superior for me.

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(StrathPuffer 24hr)

When i fitted a Jones bar on my Tripster due to not being able to ride in the drops i got ridiculed on here for uglyfying a nice bike, funnily enough it made it much more capable when off road and infinitely more comfortable to ride

[img] [/img]

This is basically why ‘gravel’ bikes are.

For CX bikes to make any sense, they need to be UCI legal. The rules are quite specific in places.

Gravel bikes can take the formula and ditch  the rules and the necessity to be competitive in a tightly matched racing format.  Long and slack makes sense here  as does fat rubber

Mountain bikes are something else entirely.

Why should all bikes end up the same regardless of purpose?

Actually @somafunk that looks ace! The Jones bars are great for distance riding as you've got multiple hand positions to use in the same way that drop bars give you (different) multiple positions. Look at the bikes used for the Tour Divide, "alternate" handlebars are very common.

OP: starting point for bar width with drop bars is the same width as your shoulders, for flared bars like Woodchippers use centre to centre of the hoods.

I’m not sure the Geometry and drop-bar criticism is valid really, you’re judging a bike that’s not really intended to hammer mile upon mile of rooty singletrack by comparison with MTBs?

This is where i was riding...

Bridalslayer bikes

I think that is another niche all together

I've set up my 29er ti hardtail with 2.35" Schwalbe G-Ones - big ballon tyres that are basically slick.

Also have a CX bike with the 35mm Gravelkings.

Both bikes set up tubeless and nice low pressures.

Much prefer the hardtail. Just as fast on road, and the geometry is better whenever anything gets bumpy. I can rattle down steps etc that I'd have to go round on the CX. Have a dropper post and Pikes on it too.

Will be doing about 60 miles on it tomorrow cycling to Glasgow.

I'm all about the hardtail. Balloon tyres are the key.

A cross bike is for when a rigid XC bike just isn't shit enough. As long as you remember that they're a lot of fun.

The first part of that sentence is utter tosh of the highest order, a good CX bike is comfortable, stiff in the right places, geometry dialed for doing what it’s intended to do. The second part is however correct

Fari enough - I should maybe have added relatively speaking. I've yet to own a CX (not gravel not gnnnarmac) bike I'd want to ride for more than a couple of hours offroad in summer if I wasn't being specifically asked to do it as fast as possible. Geo is down to the approval list and aimed at good racers who deal with it, hackers like me would benefit from something a little more relaxed in general I think, and be faster overall for it.

Not that I'd actually want that to happen, it's a big part of the charm.

There's definitely something to be said for 'long low slack'-ing a cross bike- I swapped from a pro6 to a bowman foots cray (second hand off here) at Christmas. Same parts, longer TT, shorter stem, 2° off the head angle (down to a smidge under 70. I think the back end is pretty similar geometry.

I'm not going to say the difference is night and day, but it has a noticeably more 'mountain bike' like feel at speed on the rough and on it's first ride I happily went straight down a fairly steep set of switchbacks that always gave me the screaming ab dabs on the pro 6. It's still nice and lively most of the time though and still feels like a road-ish bike on the road. Interestingly (to me) I'd been looking to try some wider bars for a bit more off road muscle, but now don't feel the need.

Now things have dried out and I've gone up from 33s to 40s it's even better. As someone mentioned above, I think the whole gravel/adventure trend is great. This is the 'road' bike I would have loved to have ten+ years ago

So much pointless analysis and categorisation. It's just a bike. Ride it. If you don't like riding it, tweak it. If you still don't like riding it, sell the thing 😉

Somafunk, I think that looks great as well, and I think you're on top something.

Having ridden mixed on/offroad with drops myself (On One Midge, so wide flared ones) I don't think they make any sense as they feel way to sketchey of anything remotely technical. I realise the idea is to get the drops the same height as you'd have a flat bar, but that seems a bit strange to me as then the hoods and tops are too high. And it looks weird 🙂

With the Jones Loops (or the Titec copies, which I have), the wide-backswept-bits feel pretty much the same as being in the drops of a super-flared drop bar like the Midge, while the forward looped bit feels like being on the hoods of a set of road bars set at the right height (i.e. not really high so as to make the drops comfortable off-road). So there's no compromise, unlike when using flared drops.

The only problem of course is that this set up means you have no access to the brakes when using the forward looped bit. I think someone should design some brake levers that work on Jones-like bars which can be accessed from multiple positions...

so much pointless analysis and categorisation. It’s just a bike. Ride it.

Tend to agree.  I get a bike I like and then just ride it on road and off road.  It may not be perfect for either but I like it and I enjoy it.

With the Jones Loops (or the Titec copies, which I have), the wide-backswept-bits feel pretty much the same as being in the drops of a super-flared drop bar like the Midge, while the forward looped bit feels like being on the hoods of a set of road bars set at the right height (i.e. not really high so as to make the drops comfortable off-road). So there’s no compromise, unlike when using flared drops.

I have Jones Loops on 2 bikes and flared drops (Woodchippers) on another. They are in no way similar.

To me, having my hands on the back-swept section of my Titec H-bars feels similar to the drops of the On One Midge's and Soma Gator's I've had.

Looking from above at flared drops vs alt-flat bars, specifically Soma Gators and Surly Open Bars, they appear quite similar.

That is a huge difference in sweep, plus of course the Loops are relatively flat/parallel to the ground.

"With the Jones Loops (or the Titec copies, which I have), the wide-backswept-bits feel pretty much the same as being in the drops of a super-flared drop bar like the Midge, while the forward looped bit feels like being on the hoods of a set of road bars set at the right height "

I havent used these bars but agree with what your saying.
Personally I would not want the bars set up so the drops are high enough for offroad riding. As I want to be in the drops to lower my position (more aero) for road sections.

What Gravel/Adventure bikes need is a bar/shifter combo which has a high wide position for offroad and a low narrow position for onroad.

The problem with your bar is as you say you cant used the shifters / brakes in the road position.

It would almost be better if the bars were a bit wider at the hoods (say 500mm) for offroad, and the drops flared inwards for road sections. But I dont think current shifters could be set up for this type of bar.

"What Gravel/Adventure bikes need is a bar/shifter combo which has a high wide position for offroad and a low narrow position for onroad."

Ah, you've articulated what I was thinking far better than I could manage!

Yes, that's exactly what I feel is the problem with off-road drops. The wide section is low, when it needs to be high.

So yes Scotroutes, I'm aware the Loops are flat/parallel when viewed side-on, and IMO that's exactly what makes them better for mixed riding than flared drops. You're right that there is a big difference in sweep as well, so I guess what I mean is that the sweep of Jones loops makes them feel far closer to a flared drop than a conventional MTB flat bar, even though they are still different

went from riding mtb with slicks to building up a cx stylee with drops because was fed up with sat up riding into wind on road sections and wanted something to ride green lanes/bridleways connect to roads - moved on from an actual cx   (^^pro6)  bike to a gravel bike with wider tyres than cx rules allow and loving it as less beaten up and anything that looks interesting is fair game

last month best option for a credit card tour was a flat bar road bike - guess which days I hated - headwinds - on my gravel bike I'd have felt it but not had to suffer it quite so much  - with drops  early bath and beer would have been on cards

loving the choice

PS cowchippers for me

guy does pretty well on the very pricey vielo (great vid though)

I have a spesh diverge for commuting/blatting about the hills. scary if too rough but fun fun

That video with Guy appears to be more or less the kind of riding I do currently on my Bokeh. And broadly reperesntative of what I've been doing since the mid 90s on my CX bike (1996 custom steel islabike with clearance for 40mm+ tyres).

What has happened more recently is that with 650b tyres becoming available in greater numbers and types it allows those kinds of bikes to become more and more versatile, also flared drop bars are easier to find and road disc means that there's a lot less canti faffing.

These bars do actually sweep inwards

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/these-new-bars-claim-to-make-any-road-bike-faster-50842/

Although for Gravel I'd prefer to see wider maybe 44cm to 50cm at the hoods. Down to ~42cm at the drops.

"I have Jones Loops on 2 bikes and flared drops (Woodchippers) on another. They are in no way similar."

Exactly.  I ride Midge bars alot on my cx bike (which is actually a cx bike just setup more like a gravel bike) and tried loops on my mtb.  The backswept part is not at the same angle, didn't really feel like a nice tucked hook position on a drop and the forward part of the loop is nowhere near as comfy as a nicely shaped hood.  I did not feel like I had more control than riding with midge bars, somehow the loops felt like a was racing a wheel barrow.

They did however look slightly less weird than the set of midges I bodged on the mtb to replace them thereby making it a monstercross I suppose.

I might try another set one day almost because I just want to like them.

Rigid bikes I find drops comfier

10 years ago I got a cx bike for winter road fitness, the only reason I got a CX bike is that I thought roadies were not cool. In the year I had it I used it offroad about 3 times, although once was the HONC which was great fun. I hated the canti brakes and soon swapped in for a road bike.

A few years after that I got a Croix De Fer, I sold it after 3 rides, horrible heavy lump.

Despite a couple of indifferent/bad experiences I still hankered for a CX bike and with a young family, the appeal of getting off busy roads and not having to drive to decent singletrack was strong so I got a Pro6 last month. A few rides in and I'm really enjoying the freedom of popping out for a quick ride around the local droves. At the weekend I rode it 18 miles on the road to Thetford then around the trails. I wasn't setting any Strava PBs but it made familiar trails interesting again. After a few years of trying to go flat out all the time, it's nice to enjoy just being outside.

went from riding mtb with slicks to building up a cx stylee with drops because was fed up with sat up riding into wind on road sections and wanted something to ride green lanes/bridleways connect to roads

I can totally relate to that, it's always windy here, even my old racy 29er was horrible on road sections that were over a mile or two.

My liking for dropbars is fairly well known, but I also like raised bars.

One option we haven't considered so far is the upright tourer bar, aka Great North Road bar in tourer position (ie up not down). When bikes were transport, these were probably the most popular bars fitted because of their versatility. Our biking predecessors weren't stupid.

I like them for what I call scenery rides - which is when you're sitting upright and enjoying the view.

Obviously you're not aerodynamic riding upright, but because they are riser bars in that position, there's nothing to obstruct or stop you getting down to it if you want to, either to get out of the wind or get a bit of pace.

Last weekend I rode at audax pace for 125 miles on my Pompino with high bars like that. The wind was mainly in our favour, but when it wasn't I was able to get as low as I usually do with actual dropbars, ie head down to stem level. It just looks less elegant, keep those elbows tucked in! 🙂

By getting low, I was hitting 55km/h on the descents (according to my mate's computer), so aero is possible.

Of course, the disadvantage is that your bike might look like something a beardy old man rides rather than a heroic gnarrmac shredder, but I think I can carry the beardy old man look off quite well. 🙂

Once you have ridden a fully upright bike, you might find it addictive, an excuse for a N+1. (Plus you'll need a different saddle).

Pompino on gravel with a tourer bar.

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I havent used these bars but ....

What Gravel/Adventure bikes need is a bar/shifter combo which has a high wide position for offroad and a low narrow position for onroad.

Well, I'm not going to pretend I speak for everyone riding this style of bike but it strikes me you've got it arse about tit. I'm more likely to be on the hoods, cruising along on the road/track and in the drops when the descents get rougher and steeper. In both positions STIs work just fine - even for those of us with smaller hands.

It's been said already in this thread - they're not mountain bikes.

A few rides on on sons my, ahem, new Boardman CX comp…

Speed on road is addictive, it fair zips along, it’s light and adaptable. Reminds me of my first MTb.

After that, is it all just massive ingrained fashion?

Yes.

Go running instead.

HTHs.

 Well, I’m not going to pretend I speak for everyone riding this style of bike but it strikes me you’ve got it arse about tit. I’m more likely to be on the hoods, cruising along on the road/track and in the drops when the descents get rougher and steeper. In both positions STIs work just fine – even for those of us with smaller hands.

I've heard this before. But I still dont understand why you would want to do this. What are the performance advantages ?

I can see that sometimes people would want to be in the drops for a more secure hand hold.
But To me this is more the rider fitting to the bar than the bar fitting to the job.
Also I dont really have this problem I do feel secure in the hoods and since I got hydraulic discs I have plenty of braking power.

Also why would I want to be bumbling along on the road ?

To be fair on my Gravel bike I am doing ok with the current drop bars, but I still feel the design could be improved specifically by having a wider bar position for off road.

Some people have described fixing this by having a high rise stem + flared drop bar. But this fixes one problem to create another ie the lose of an aero road position.

I’ve heard this before. But I still dont understand why you would want to do this. What are the performance advantages ?

Also why would I want to be bumbling along on the road ?

Not all riding is racing.

Some people have described fixing this by having a high rise stem + flared drop bar. But this fixes one problem to create another ie the lose of an aero road position.

Again, we're all individuals. I reckon my bars are set up lower than most though.

Not all riding is racing.

This true but again it suggests the bars are not optimal.

this also make some sense to me->

very expensive and difficult to get hold of

This true but again it suggests the bars are not optimal.

Optimal for what? Comfort, control, speed? Choose your poison but be prepared to accept compromise.

And those Soma bars - surely you can only brake/shift in one position? Seem to offer the worst of all worlds.

(plus they look shit)

Those Soma bars almost hit the spot.

The swept back portion looks handy, the parallel bit is just like being in the drop, but it really needs to curve up a bit more so the brake can end up in its normal position on a dropbar, then you could ride on the hoods too. That would make it very versatile.

Its advantage is that you wouldn't need the huge stack of spacers or riser stem needed to get a dropbar high enough for offroad, and also by permitting a low steering head, you can get much lower for when you need to be aero. A bonus is the cables run free instead of being restricted into tight curves on a taped dropbar. Plus it would save weight.

^^those soma bars ?-) no worries about are the hoods comfy and looks like you get to stuff used gum down the bar ends - useful

A few years after that I got a Croix De Fer, I sold it after 3 rides, horrible heavy lump.

not fair - mine was 2lbs heavier than my genesis equilibrium which was pretty good considering it had a steel fork, disc brakes, and heavier tyres, and 2lbs heavier than my tripster atr with all the same kit on - tripster is titanium with a carbon fork.

22.5lbs I think - good fun bike, persuaded me to upgrade to the tripster as that style of bike was so fun.

Yours must have been stock which had horrible wheels - I advised a mate to get one 2nd hand and then upgrade the wheel set if he liked it. He did like it but never upgraded the wheelset and still complains about the weight!