[Closed] Road groupset quandry

A posh bike? Then I wouldn't spend fifteen hundred quid on an off the shelf steel frameset. You could get a Rourke/Enigma/Shand almost any other custom for that much.

If buying off the shelf, then the Ritchey Logic frames and forks are supposed to be mint and are half the price.

Groupset also needs to be something posh like Record.

Finishing kit is down to personal preference and fit.

Ultegra di2 versus mechanical dura ace is such a tough choice. If I wasn't going hydraulic disc I think I'd go with mech dura ace.

In fairness I don't think you'd be disappointed which ever one you picked.

di2 is great IMO/E. I'd get it again if I was getting a new bike

Dura Ace Mech... It's the pinnacle of mechanical groupsets and whilst Di2 might have the novelty/wow factor, the actual shift is virtually identical and far less fiddly.

I'm also convinced that a good rider with a bit of "mechanical sympathy" is far easier on their kit than Di2.

I bought the new 9000 groupset when it first came out and I still drool over it. (Far more than the newest Dura Ace in fact!)

And if anyone questions why you went mech rather than elec, just point out that if it's good enough for Spartacus and El Pistolero, it's good enough for you!

If I woke up wanting to buy either of those frames then I'd probably want to build it with the Rotor Uno groupset. Hmm, no disk mounts so would use magura RT8 calipers instead.

No desire to go for campag if I'm honest, shimano is nice enough for me and I want rim brakes also.

A Rouke stainless frame is more expensive and I don't like the paint finishing (although you could probably change that for a fee) as is the Enigma (albeit Ti) and I like the idea of stainless for some reason.

Starley are local to me, and I just like the look of the Bowman, their Palace has been very well received.

Guess you've gotta buy what you like. The Shimano stuff (well the chainsets) look bloody gopping, especially on a steel frameset. You could probably get a different chainset like a Praxis or something.

SS sounds like the sort of material that you'd want welded by someone who knows what they're doing; a bit like Titanium.

That Starley looks like a load of cheapo SS tubes thrown together in the Far East and sold for a huge mark up.

These look good; big oversized pipes for sitffness.

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I had the same choice and went with DI2 Ultegra. No regrets coming from Dura Ace 7900. I'll never have mechanical on my posh/summer bike again.

Just need to stretch to DA DI2 on the next one...

Front shifting Di2 is just amazing and complete game changer. Rear shifting is not really that different as rear shifting has always been good. If I was in your shoes I would go Ultegra Di2.

The Shimano stuff (well the chainsets) look bloody gopping, especially on a steel frameset

Never a truer word spoken, somehow they seem to look tolerably OK on carbon aero wunder-machines but on anything more conventional they just jump out at you in bad bad way.

I'd even take a bargain square taper RD/TD Sugino chainset over the current Shimano stuff on a nice steel frame.

Plenty of nicer modern chainset options out there if you're bothered about looks, it's almost a shame the Shimano stuff shifts so well...

Oh yes, the original question, mechanical for me, probably Ultegra as the weight saving of DA just not worth the £ in my eyes, Ultegra is functionally excellent 🙂

Herself has Chorus EPS on her RLT9, she loves it. She finds life a real chore when she has to ride her mechanical Chorus equiped road bike.
I'm waiting for HydroEpS and eTap-HYdroR before making any future bike decisions.

Dura Ace Mech... It's the pinnacle of mechanical groupsets

Chainset wise I was thinking rota with praxis works rings

Have you ridden the high end groupsets before ?. In the middle of the range the performance isn't that different - Ultegra mech is better than 105 for sure but when you get to DA Mech, Chorus Mech or Red they're all excellent but also very different (thats a deliberate comparison of Churus to DA by the way). Electric then seems to come back together again and level the playing field (and for me that means I'd probbably rather go Mech than electric).
That could be also to do with how the groupset is installed though as its quite difficult to install any of the electrics so they shift badly (although not impossible) where as you can make a top end Mech groupset shift like a low end one if you fit it poorly.
I guess what I'm trying to say is top end Mech feels different to each other but electronic is a more level playing field.
Also electronic can get a git funny if you're not on the manufacturers rings.

I've ridden dura ace and ultegra but none of the others, highest sram I've ridden is rival

difference is huge DA to Rival. To be fare though If you like Shimano then you probably won't like Red, in the same way that I like Campag and find SRAM finnicky and Shimano "wishy washy".

Finishing kit wise - I like my rotor cranks lots, the 3d+ idea of using the bottom bracket top deal with the different standards is great. - I've been a fan of the new 3T stuff for a while but have recently switched to a Deda Carbon post (12mm setback) and thats really nice - easy to set up - doesn't need gorilla tightening and no squeaks at all. I do use carbon assembly past on it though which helps

Di2 for my money.

Or go mental and just go DA Di2!

njee20 - Member
Di2 for my money.

Or go mental and just go DA Di2!

Might need a few more OT shifts to get that

Ok, it's got Campag - but sweet jesus isn't it pretty 😯

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Happy to help.

^What is it?

I'll have a wild guess at:
Stelbel Antenore

website
[url= http://www.stelbel.it/en/prodotto/antenore/ ]linky[/url]

Starting at £1600 (rough from euro) plus VAT it may get a bit pricey

Pretty. that saddle lools like it would destroy me though!!

Ive got the exact same decision to make re groupsets (also 40th). Frame Ive decided on is the Mason Resolution. Currently leaning towards DA mechanical for the same reason metioned above that I think Shimano will go wireless in the next few years and I'm holding out for that.

I had the same choice.

I went for Ultegra Di2 with Hydraulic Discs. Quite simply cos I couldn't bear the thought of cables. Coupled with the discs it should be pretty much maintenance free.

I have another bike with Dura Ace Di2 and quite honestly shift wise I can't tell the difference.

That Stelbel is very VERY nice. (Goes off to search under the couch cushions)

A coupla reasonably insightful posts regarding SS; Hope they're useful

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2026098&postcount=36

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1161681&postcount=32

[quote="duc"](thats a deliberate comparison of Churus to DA by the way).hmmm. I'm guessing it's as you're a bit of a campag snob?

Record, super record/EPS etc offer nothing over chorus (or DA) except very slightly lower weight and a much larger dent in your bank balance.

davidtaylforth - Member
A coupla reasonably insightful posts regarding SS; Hope they're useful

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2026098&postcount=36

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1161681&postcount=32
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Only that it's tricky to work with and you can't make a SS 29'er apparently, I guess you don't like the material

Only that it's tricky to work with and you can't make a SS 29'er apparently, I guess you don't like the material

Can't say; never had a stainless steel bike. It's no different to regular steel in terms of how it rides though. It's slightly lighter, can be left polished, is more prone to dents, more prone to breaking (by the sounds of it), should be replaced after two seasons use (according to Reynolds) and is very expensive. Why you'd want to choose a bike specifically because it's made from that stuff is beyond me. Only trying to help.

I think what he's implying is that with limited availability of tube sizes, the difficulty in forming/bending/swaging SS tubing and the more general difficulties in working with it. He couldn't make a 29er to his design.

Which basically means he hasn't designed for the material. Not a very good designer then.

Which basically means he hasn't designed for the material. Not a very good designer then.

Or why compromise the design to suit the material when more appropriate materials can be used.

Then it stops being a stainless 29er.
Which was what he said he couldn't do.

😀

ghostlymachine - Member
Then it stops being a stainless 29er.
Which was what he said he couldn't do.

Or maybe he could do it, but he had a design he didn't want to compromise....

Or maybe we get back to the OP and forget about arguing over why people can't build a SS 29'er.

Wonder why Starley offer a lifetime warranty then?

It's slightly lighter, can be left polished, is more prone to dents, more prone to breaking (by the sounds of it), should be replaced after two seasons use (according to Reynolds) and is very expensive. Why you'd want to choose a bike specifically because it's made from that stuff is beyond me. Only trying to help.

If only there was another corrosion resistant metal that frames could be made out of for similar money, maybe even something less dense so the tubes could be made a bit thicker and less likely to dent 😉

I wanted a special 'bike for life' Sunday best road bike it having a custom paint finish was important to me. I chose a Rourke, what don't you like about the paint finish? it's better than any bike I've ever had. Admittedly they offer little help with the design and this probably leads to the many gopping examples that are out there but they'll do whatever you want and yu have 5 month to consider the design while you're on the waiting list.
It was going to be my 40th birthday bike but I got an unexpected work bonus so spent the money on the frame to make me feel better about how shit work was. Unfortunately (in the long run it was actually the best thing that ever happened to me) I was made redundant before the frame was finished so I had to scale back on the groupset from Ultegra Di2 or DA to Ultegra mechanical. 2 years later when I became 40 I considered upgrading to the DA but Ultegra is so good (much better than my ability) I couldn't justify it and upgraded my winter bike to 105 instead.
If you really want it to be special spend the money on the frame, the groupset can be changed / upgraded in good time if you've got yourself a keeper.

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Yeah but surely as you only fet one [s]mid life crisis[/s] 40th it is best to go fully crazy-go-nuts and get the di2 and/or Dura-ace, so forget about plain mechanical ultegra. I still like the idea of Rotor Uno though, i think the exotic exclusiveness of it would be a good match for the £1500 noodley steel frame

If it were me I'd go for Di2 because even though mechanical DA is nice it's not gonna blow you away. It's still the same clicky-click gear changing. Di2 is robots.

ROBOTS.

Isn't eTap in a similar price bracket to Di2 or did I just dream that?

£1500 noodley steel frame

have you ridden them? the Bowman isn’t “a noodly steel frame”

I have just bought a new 'best bike forever' frame. I stretched the budget to a Di2 frame. I bought Ultegra and changed the crankset to Dura Ace (for spangly looks alone).
I absolutely love Di2. After being a diehard Campag fan it was a tough decision but there was no way that I could afford Chorus EPS.
The shifting is great; it encourages me to use more of the gears more of the time. I'm now eying-up my winter bike and thinking "hmm, Di2".

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Sometimes I wish I wasn't into MTBing, so I could afford a [i]really [/i]nice road bike or two.

And I'm not normally one for retro stylings, but that Rourke is delish. Shame they don't do Ultegra chainsets in silver eh?

I went for Campag on my MLC roadie (and Enigma for the frame). With hindsight, I think I should have ponied up for DI2. For me Campag is more comfortable and intuitive to use and I HATE the way Shimano brake levers wobble around when you're grabbing for the levers, but the 105 set up on a borrowed winter roadie does make the campag kit look a little bit silly in terms of shift quality. DI2 hoods are slimmer than mechanical shimano, and you get properly fitted brake levers that only move in the correct plane. Having ridden an XTR DI2 bike, the tech is just so cool too!

Going back to the original question (instead of posting random photos of handsome, yet unrelated bikes as I usually do) it depends whether you want to justify £500 for electric gears - one guy I know with Di2 loves it & would never go back to mechanical (on his best bike anyway) and another - who has several fantastic road bikes - is apparently not too keen on the light feel of the shift buttons & prefers something more tactile, ie. mechanical.

Having looked at both the frames you're thinking of, I reckon both would look great with either Ultegra di2/mech or DA to be honest - it'd be easier if one was completely different looking in fact, ie. Ultegra v Force... what wheels are you going for out of interest?

I'm in the middle of building a Moda 931 frame (looks like that Bowman frame in black actually) with silver Campag Athena (fancied giving it a bit of a retro look) and black Zondas, hopefully it looks the way i'm expecting when it's done or i'll be back on this thread to see what you ended up with for inspiration 😆

have you ridden them? the Bowman isn’t “a noodly steel frame”

Actually that was more aimed at the other frame which is only 250g hevaier than a carbon frame. I am being a bit of a cock anyway as i dont get the idea of such an expensive SS winter bike, although that is none of my business.

A possibly more useful view, a silver 5 arm crank would visually suit the frames way better than any of the wierd 4 arm or rotor stuff.
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/sg/en/shimano-ultegra-6700-double-10sp-chainset-silver/rp-prod149163 ]ultegra 6700 is cheap[/url] and works fine with 11spd stuff. The money saved could go towards blinging stuff up elsewhere.

Wheels wise, I have a set of RS81'S on the way.

i dont get the idea of such an expensive SS winter bike

Why do what everyone expects you to do? My steel pegoretti did 3 winters so I bought a slightly cheaper custom Italian frame set in the same tube set (Columbus spirit) to ride in the winter.
I have SRAM and DA on them not the campagnolo that the purists demand.

Life is too short to ride crap bikes, work dictates I have more free time in the winter so I can't see the point in riding a mediocre bike.

To the OP, mechanical DA will probably give less grief and last longer than any of the other options.
(And the Bowman)

It wouldn't be a winter bike, it'd be my only road bike. It's been known to rain in spring and autumn here so guard fitments are a nice bonus.
That Rourke up there is one of the nicest I've seen, they're just a bit too far over budget, I take it that it hasn't snapped or melted I'm the 2 years you've had it?

In the 2.5 years of summer / dry miles I've had it the frame is as new save a small scuff on the top tube I did within the first few weeks.
If you gave budget for DA then you have budget for a Rourke or Enigma with Ultegra. That build cost me £3k all in through some carefully component buying in the 6 months frame waiting time.

I wanted a [s]special 'bike for life' [/s] Sunday best road bike it having a custom paint finish was important to me

Me too. I bought a Deng Fu! Don't subscribe to the bike for life thing, but it's a great bike, rides nicely, light, well priced, and they'd paint it however I wanted. Was a bit overwhelming really. There are a lot of Pantone colours!

It wouldn't be a winter bike, it'd be my only road bike. It's been known to rain in spring and autumn here so guard fitments are a nice bonus.

They're essential; keep guards on mine all year round. Narrows it down to the Bowman; looks a far better bike than that Starley. 425mm chainstays would put me off. Dunno what your current bike is, but try a steel bike with long stays before you commit. You'd get used to them, but as soon as you get back on something with short stays, it feels so much better!

Much as I like Di2 I would go for DA mechanical

Looks like you've been chosen the Bowman frame, in black, with mechanical Dura Ace 😉

Personally I'd be tempted to look for folk selling off new DA bits on t'ebay & go with an Ultegra cassette - probably bring the cost down somewhere between mech & Di2 Ultegra... might be worth thinking about

Ghostly, that's my point. Shifting doesn't improve above chorus its weight and willy waving factor that improves.

I wouldn't say I'm a campag fanboy as such I switched from ultegra years ago to campag because I prefer the way it shifts and prefer its longevity and spares availability over shimano. SRAM was still Sachs or grip shift when I made that decision. I also like the fact free hub design hasn't changed for years and until recently neither had cable pull ratios giving the ability to easily fall off on a Friday and still have a bike to ride from rummaging through spares by 10am Saturday morning.

I prefer shimano on the mtb but have also had campag OR (google it) and suntour micro drive in the past too.

Every time I've ridden SRAM on road or mtb it's left me cold. SRAM shifting i.e. Double tap is just counter intuitive for me every time although the way it's use one etap could be a game changer for me at least.

I do want to ride the rotor group set though having used rotor bits and pieces for nearly ten years.

I just built my first 'expensive' road bike and after ummming and aaahing for ages I eventually went with Ultegra di2.
It's really rather good & now the new 105 group on my cx/lifestyle/niche of the week bike feels clunky and horrible, even though I know it's lovely.
I like the way there's virtually no effort about the shift, especially the front & the way it trims the front mech with a robotic kinda whirr still makes me smile. (I always wanted a Raleigh Vektar though, was gutted when I discovered how shit they were)
The cleaner lines of being pretty cable free & the way you don't have 4 full diameter cables under the bar tape is good.
Plugging your bike into a laptop to tweak the gear settings is a bit odd though, had to do a firmware update before all the bits of a groupset I bought together would talk to each other.

Wheels wise, I have a set of RS81'S on the way.

Save the money on the groupset, put the extra £450 into the wheels... Trust me! I'd rather ride 105/Rival/Centaur with my Reynolds Assaults than I would UDi2/DA/Red/Chorus with RS81's or equivalent.

I've just gone Ultegra Di2, the whir of the front mech trimming is quite a reassuring sound, it kinda makes me realise where my money's gone and after years of riding SRAM I can now see that the double tap thing was just weird and fantastic born at the same time.

I was told by a mate that I'd never ride mechanical ever again once I'd used Di2, of course I re assured myself he was talking absolute hollyhocks, I'm now looking at winter wheels for my fast bike.

Totally agree with mboy. I try to spend a third of my total budget on wheels. Far more important to the feel of the bike than the group-set.

Also hood shape. I can't get on with Shimano hoods. My ultegra kit was removed as I didn't like the shape or feel of the shift.

Is suggest getting a good feel of the hoods as a starting place, then decide on level of kit depending on budget.

Already got the wheels, so they'll go on to start.
I get on with shimano, had Ultegra on my last 3 road bikes and have 105 in my cx bike. So there's no argument over which brand I'll be using first the groupset.