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I have been riding a 1x electric gravel bike on the road with a 44T chain ring and 10-50 cassette. Im finding that I am a bit fitter and ride quite a lot with the motor off and put it in eco mode for the hills. I ride in the north east and group rides sometimes incorporate climbs with 10%+, sometimes with short sections up to 12-15%. These are hard work but doable on a 13kg e-bike in eco.
So, I have bought road bike with a 10-36 cassette and a 48/35 chainring and I’m wanting to know if I am going to struggle on rides such as the above and whether a 46/33 chain ring (smallest available on this group set) would be worth changing to. I’m conscious that I should be careful not to have gearing that means my most used gears end up with a poor chain line (laterally and radially - ie small ring and lower down the cassette ) or I’m constantly swapping front rings but I want to be able to make it up these hills. I’ve never ridden a 2x as I only took up cycling a few years ago so I have zero experience to draw on.
I suppose the question is will I be better off sucking it up and getting fitter or will that take ages and make riding way less enjoyable in the interim…?
For info the ratios in the lowest gears for the above combinations are:
Gravel bike 44 chainring in lowest gear 44/50 - 0.88
Road bike 48/35 chainring in lowest gear 35/36 - 0.97
Road bike 46/33 chainring in lowest gear 33/36 - 0.91
Ta.
48/33 seems an odd but perfectly doable chainring, with a 10-36 at the back.
My heavyish winter/audax bike has a GRX 2x set up, 48/31 up front and 11-34 at the back, and that's been fine. Got me round a hilly club ride the other week with waaay too many 12-15% climbs.
Don't forget that you won't be powering a 13kg ebike with MTB tyres which will make a difference as well. And if you do struggle at first, 1-2 rides a week for a month or two will either see you improve your fitness to overcome it, or you can swap out the chainrings and shorten the chain. Easier to do it that way.
Anyway, welcome to the Dark Side. We stop at cafes.
I have two road bikes. Both have 10-36 cassettes, first bike has 46-33 chainrings, the second bike has 43-30 chainrings.
I prefer the 43-30 even if it isn't that much different. I live in a hilly area, so I'm usually in the small ring for climbing and the big ring elsewhere. Never had a problem with chainline: Sram 2x seems fairly tolerant, although it won't allow you to use small ring / small cog combo.
The 43-30 bike actually came as a 1x (42x 33-10). I immediately changed it to a 2x. I think you need the "wide" front mech and cranks to work with 43-30 though. That's what I bought anyhow.
I prefer the small increments between gears of the 2x, even for fairly meaty gravel events. For anything really rough though, I'd stick with 1x
I guess you should try a couple of rides on what you have then decide. I'd certainly want / need lower gears!!
You should be absolutely fine on 35/36 - that's already a very low gear for a road bike. I'm guessing you've dropped a good few kilos by changing bike too?
Hills are always hard work I'm afraid, the enjoyment comes when you've finished them!
It’s 48/35 or 46/33 chainring options and I have a 10-36 cassette on…
Your lowest gear/ratio on that setup is 31-34 which is a 0.91 ratio and so the same as I would get if I swapped to the smaller chainring combo…
I also stop at cafes! 🙂
I’m guessing you’ve dropped a good few kilos by changing bike too?
Yeah new bike is half the weight!
I have a 38 26 chainset and a with a 11 36 outback
It depends on cadence. For group rides i would be better off with 42 28 or 44 30
Bike weight is hardly a variable unless you are very light. For me saving 5kg would rake me and the bike from 112kg to 107kg. That's less than a gear change out back
I'd give it a go first, I don't feel like I've been road riding that long, but I suppose I have now, compact chainsets (50/34) were out when I started but were fairly new, my first ever road bike had a 50/34 and 11-25 9 speed at that back, my last road bike had 52/36 at the front and a 27T bottom gear, the 36 was fine but the 52 was a struggle, seemed to have to switch to the small ring a lot more often than with a 34
Definitely worth a go first, as MCTD says, the difference in weight and rolling resistance is massive on a road bike
ampthillFull Member
Bike weight is hardly a variable unless you are very light. For me saving 5kg would rake me and the bike from 112kg to 107kg. That’s less than a gear change out back
I wouldn't dismiss it, I changed some 2kg wheels to some 1.5kg wheels and the difference was very noticeable on the climbs
26/36 that’s really really low! 0.72 ratio!
What I don’t have a feel for is how much difference a ratio of say 0.92 (my current low gear on the road bike) is to 0.97 ( what a smaller chainring would get me).
There isn’t an option to go smaller than 33 up front on this group set.
I'm assuming 33T is because it's a 110 BCD chainset, and the lowest you can get.
I run a 46x34 and a 11-34 cassette on the CX bike giving a lowest of 1:1 on the road wheelset. I use this as my climbing bike too. I've not been beaten on a hill with a 1:1, having done Werneth Low at 40 miles and The Chimney at 80 miles on a 130 mile sportive. I also beat my nemisis of Jenkins Chapel on that - wasn't able to do it on my 39x26 on my vintage road bikes.
No issues spinning out on the 46 x 11 so go for it.
I wouldn’t dismiss it, I changed some 2kg wheels to some 1.5kg wheels and the difference was very noticeable on the climbs
I'll take your word for it but that would appear to be the same as being faster after loo stop, assuming we are talking about riding at constant speed
I’ll take your word for it but that would appear to be the same as being faster after loo stop, assuming we are talking about riding at constant speed
I’m assuming rotational mass is at play here…
@fossy so do you think I would appreciate the benefit of the smaller 33T chainring in place of the 35T?
It's marginal dropping from 35 to 33 especially with the 36 rear. Try it first ! I have a 32T on the cross wheels, and a 34T on the road wheels - can't tell the difference myself.
I'd maybe change if you are struggling, or need a new chain ring due to wear.
Rotational mass etc is all balony. Gear inches, power and cadence are the only things that matter.
I have a few climbs here in Snowdon that are my go to training climbs. My race bike (for crits) is a very light bike with 53/39 and a 28 cassette. On the climbs here I am slower on the crit bike than I am on my winter training bike with full guards, but has a 50/34 and a 32 cassette. (My race bike wheels are carbon aero wheels weighing about 1300grams with fast rubber. My winter bike wheels are about 1700 grams and the same depth, tyres tend to be gp5000's tubeless)
My regular training ride has a 45 minute climb with sections above 20+%. I have completed this enough times to know that while a light weight bike feels great especially when getting up out of the saddle, being in a low enough gear for the incline and power being put out is much more important. For short climbs, its probably ok to mash up in a higher gear on a lighter bike, but for those climbs where you are sat down for the long haul, having the correct gearing is important.
(Winter bike is probably close to 2kgs heavier than the race bike)
If you're not that fit and moving from eBike to a standard bike, I would definately be wanting the lowest gearing available. Give it a go as low as your group set lets you and see how you get on.
I hired a road bike with a SRAM 48/35 groupset (12sp 10-33 cassette).
Initially I was sceptical cos I've always ridden Shimano, either standard 53/39 or semi-compact 52/36 and I absolutely hate compact (50/34) cos I forever feel in the wrong gear.
The SRAM system was brilliant - essentially you can treat it as a 1x and be in the big ring almost all the time, only dropping it into the 35 for long / steep climbs.
The difference of 2T on a chainring is very marginal - I'd not bother changing to the 46/33 until I'd had a good few rides on the 48/35 and seen how you get on.
Righto, all useful stuff as usual. Thanks.
It’s a SRAM group set as per yours CL and I’ll certainly try it first. I’ve had a quick flattish 30k spin on it back in November but nothing needing the lowest gear. If the difference was going to be night and day I might have just swapped over but if it’s marginal then probably not worth it.
Have you had a look at a "gear inch" calculator? Sheldon Brown site has a good one. I suspect that going from a 35 chainring to a 33 chainring will be similar to having one gear lower than you have at present. If you are finding it hard in your lowest great, would an imaginary 13th cog be useful?
Try what you're currently running and see how the hills feel. If it's not working straight away/after a while, then you can change. I struggled with a 50/34 coming back from knee surgery, and it was too much on hills. Went to an absoluteblack sub-compact 46/30 and it made a huge difference, without really sacrificing much top end. I am just starting to think about going back to 50/34, but will see what the hills feel like in the spring
If you do find you need a lower gear, look at changing the cassette to one with a 40t - may need some jiggling of the b-screw and/or WolfLink.
Just looked at gear inch calculator - I hadn’t looked at that before, only ratios. Ta.
Yeah I’ll try it first as there isn’t an awful lot of difference on paper.
Thanks everyone.
its also worth remembering that your road bike tyres are likely a good few mill smaller than your gravel tyres, so that will drop your total gear inches by a little as well
I N R A T S but given you will have the bike shortly, try it and see?
I ride a 44T front on my gravel bike as it’s the geometric mean of 53/36 - slightly old school. This with an 11-26 or 11-32. Once you get down to 1:1 and lower, it’s time to walk. I prefer tight spacing and you get that with a smaller front and smaller rear. Some of the monsters I’ve seen on bikes are an abomination! Try it but don’t expect very low gears to be a substitute for fitness. You still have to maintain high cadence for decent power to climb. Or walk.
Once you get down to 1:1 and lower, it’s time to walk
Does that little motto apply to both 650 and 700
wheels?
If the weather improves at all in the next week or so I’ll be out giving it a test on something… I’ll report back if I had to walk!
I've run 11-34 cassettes on my road bike since around '20, in combination with 34/50 rings, as I loved climbing and the 34 cassette effectively gave me more climbing gear options at the cost of more abrupt changes at the top end. When I was lighter and much fitter, the easiest gears would rarely get a look in, but they were handy to have for steep ramps or days when I wasn't chasing my times up hills. In early '22, I'd often stay in the 50 ring unless the gradient went above approx 7%.
These days with long covid, being 27Kg heavier at 97Kg and being much less fit, the easiest gear gets far more use as anything abover approx 6% gradient is a real slog.
For climbing these days, my Marasa hybrid gearing is far more suitable for my ability, with 26/36/48 rings and 12-36 cassette... The granny ring is a life saver and will usually give me at least a few sprocket options to keep the legs turning.
https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html suggests the smaller ring option will effectively give you a single gear easier than the 35/48 setup, going by gear inches.
Once you get down to 1:1 and lower, it’s time to walk.
Errmmmm - I run very low gears and I can sit and spin at above walking pace with the equivalent of a 22 front 34 rear Thats obviously touring but I am still above walking pace in that low gear
Lower ratios and finer increments is the goal right?
I ran 50/38 (on an old standard chainset) with an 11-32 cassette for far too long, recently deciding I was going to make my Gravel bike dual use with two wheel sets and a 46/30 chainset.
I do wish my bravado hadn't kept me wed to larger chainrings for so long, I've been running the road wheelset with an 11-30 cassette to give me a 1:1 bottom ratio and much closer steps between gears, and I can use far more of the cassette in the big ring before making good use of those lower ratios. The top end isn't all that limiting (for me) but if I were to swap to a 10t sprocket I'd have all the range I could possibly want.
It's worth noting that a 46-10 gear is near enough the same ratio as a 50-11 (the hardest gear most roadies with compact chainset have been using for the last 20 odd years), so you're not really losing anything at the top end.
I'd take the 46/33 chainrings OP, and whatever cassette gets you closest to a 1:1 bottom gear. See how you go and don't be afraid to change that cassette later if you feel the need.
What’s fitted currently is a 48/35 and a 10-36 cassette so bottom gear is 0.97 ratio. Swapping to the 46/33 front would give me a 0.91 ratio. What I have no idea about is how much difference that would actually make. I think it works out at something like 26 and 25 gear inches according to Sheldon but he doesn’t have a 30mm tyre option in his configuration so that’s not 100% accurate. I’m not fussed about top end as my 1x gives me 4.4 ratio and I never spin out on that. A 46/33 front would be better anyway at 4.6. It’s the climbing gears I want as I do a few hilly rides and I don’t want to have to walk up them! SRAM AXS smallest chainring is 46/33 so that is the lowest I could go.
46/33 is the new SRAM compact isn't it?
48/35 is the equivalent of the old 52/39
In which case yes I would definitely go with the smaller option, hardly anyone apart from actual race bikes runs a full size chainset anymore. These days even the brisk guys in the club are running 1:1 bottom gears, everyone else prefers 1:1 to be at least 2nd gear (i.e. 50/34 and an 11-36.). Although your gear does have a slightly better than 1:1.
Even off-the-shelf aero optimized race bikes come with a compact these days.
www.tredz.co.uk/.Merida-Reacto-6000-Di2-2023-Road-Bike_261537.htm
Having said that, proprietary chainrings are stupidly expensive, if you can get up the hills in 1:1 then I'd leave it until it's worn out. The problem is more on longer days out when a couple of short hard hills can disproportionately wear out your legs, it's often better to pick a much lower gear and climb slower at an easy pace than it is to smash up the hill and then spend the next hour struggling to keep up with the group. IME my 36-28 is good enough for a consistent ~7%
Basically, just ride it and see. With >1:1 you'll probably get up the hills even if unfit (I can get up Vomit Hill in the Chilterns on 36-28!), it might just add to the fatigue on long days.
Swapping to the 46/33 front would give me a 0.91 ratio. What I have no idea about is how much difference that would actually make.
It should be noticeable as a slightly lower ratio, worth it if you think you'll benefit, always possible to change cassette at a later date if it's too spinny.
46/33 is the new SRAM compact isn’t it?
48/35 is the equivalent of the old 52/39
Yeah basically, it's having that 10t sprocket that makes all the difference.
Interestingly GRX offers 46/30 and 48/32 ratios off the peg, bigger gaps between gravel chainring pairs coupled with a 10-36 cassette equates to slightly more range.from a double.
What Shimano don't seem so keen on is adopting a 10t sprocket on their road groups presumably down to efficiency, or maybe just ideas about traditional gearing ranges...
What Shimano don’t seem so keen on is adopting a 10t sprocket on their road groups presumably down to efficiency, or maybe just ideas about traditional gearing ranges…
I think it's more to do with compatibility. Shimnano rely more on their 4 year cycle trickling down tech from DA to 105, which means they might do something like "microspline road" this year on DA? Whereas SRAM releases everything at once or at least in quick succession. And I guess Shimano's fancy hollow chainring's must have a higher tooling cost than their SRAM equivalent.
It should be noticeable as a slightly lower ratio, worth it if you think you’ll benefit, always possible to change cassette at a later date if it’s too spinny.
In real world terms is the equivalent of one (maybe 1.5) extra sprocket.(s) at the back. So if you find yourself clicking the shifter looking for an extra gear then that's a good indication.
I've found and eBay deal for a 46/33 so I've ordered it. It comes with cranks which are 170mm as opposed to my current 172.5 so I have a choice there now as well...!
Looking at the standard specs for a bunch of road bikes from the likes of Specialized/Trek/Ribble/Giant, they all seem to have a low gear around >= 1:1 Only gravel bikes seem to have less than 1:1 in general apart from the Specialized Roubaix but apparently, according to my LBS, nobody buys those. My bike in its standard spec had a 1.06 ratio.
What Shimano don’t seem so keen on is adopting a 10t sprocket on their road groups presumably down to efficiency, or maybe just ideas about <em style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246/0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;">traditional gearing ranges…
Bearing size and placement on the rear wheel, as close to the drop out as feasible, using 1/4" bearings in a cup and cone arrangement with a HG freehub, requires a 11t small sprocket to package properly (or at least following shimanos design guidelines).
Also, the ratio step from 11 to 12 is noticeably better than a step from 10 to 11. I've tried SRAMs 10t offerings and i can't stand that jump on the road. I'd rather carry all that extra weight of a bigger chainring and use an 11 top sprocket.
Also, the ratio step from 11 to 12 is noticeably better than a step from 10 to 11. I’ve tried SRAMs 10t offerings and i can’t stand that jump on the road. I’d rather carry all that extra weight of a bigger chainring and use an 11 top sprocket.
Just needs a smaller chainring. Shimano went down to 9T for their now discontinued Capreo groupset for small wheels. 44-11 is a nice top gear for rolling stuff and I'm not being dropped in medium group rides, nor spinning out. A 10T would do little to improve this. I previously ran a 38T as the lowest chainring count for the 130BCD. I ran this with a 10-speed 11-21 block on the road, and of course the jumps were tiny and smooth! Climbing into the Surrey Hills was "challenging" and I was too often at the bottom of th block and spinning out. The move to 44T and a wider block has been great, with perfect chainline (on the middle sprocket on the flat), but as I said, It's rolling hills here. If heading for the Alps. or even Mallorca, I'd be taking something with two chainrings.
I swapped a club mate down to a 48T on a spare crank I had following the Shimano recall. He's been amazed at the difference in improved cadence he's seen since the change.