[Closed] Road discs

Disc Debate Quokka is apprehensive !
[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9IQxjqgf54MJaKRr9W_dvINPTT98IWfYPCO8RvXQilSoCYuL3 [/img]

Slow Loris is worried
[img] [/img]

Don't get the entry level shimano lwvers they are awful. The hose entry point sticks straight into the fleshy part of your thumb if you use the hoods

you'll go over the bar first time you use them, have you got a good dentist ?

Don't get the entry level shimano lwvers they are awful. The hose entry point sticks straight into the fleshy part of your thumb if you use the hoods

However, if you are using them on flared drops, that puts them in a position that negates the issue.

They're brilliant.

I have SRAM Levels on my Superfly, which is peforming road bike duties for me until I can afford an actual road bike.

They are the worst thing about the bike. I wouldn't mind so much if I used it as an MTB as I'd appreciate the power and relatively nice lever feel, but for road duties and commuting duties they have been an expensive pain in the eardrum for little actual benefit.

The current state of play is I have reduced the earsplitting noise when braking in the wet to merely 'ear-bothering' noise. I achieved this by trying several compounds and brands of pads, before actually buying a different style and brand (and size) of rotors. I still have some sort of weird resonant moaning vibration from the back brake which travels up the seat post, but I'm just going to have to live with it.

I also spent several hours chasing what I thought was a creak or a mis-aligned front mech, when in actual fact it was a burr in the one of the disc pads which rubbed off the rotor only when I put pressure on the pedals. I've mostly solved this but will need to re-align the callipers again, which is easy enough with a Hayes alignment gauge but is still hit-or-miss compared to re-aligning a road bike calliper.

Why does all this bother me so much? Because on my commute and regular road rides, the discs offer me nothing that I felt I lacked with a decent set of 105 callipers on a bog standard set of OEM wheels. My other commuter has cantis with posh Swisstop pads. Obvs they're not as good as the discs, but they're not as noisy either, and are much easier to keep running rub free etc. I'm swapping to mini-Vs as soon as I can which should improve things a little more.

You need to ask if you *really* feel you'll benefit from discs, and if they're worth the extra money/weight/complication.

Going by their popularity, I'd guess many people think they are, and fair play to them. I'll just continue to make life difficult for myself by trying to emulate a modern all-road/gravel/endurance bike, but with rim brakes. 8)

Have the Shimano 685 levers and 785 callipers (or is the other way around) on two bikes - one CX and one proper road bike.

The CX was bought deliberately with discs as it's an all weather commuter. The road bike because that particular model had a huge discount in the end of model year sale.

Both are excellent - one finger braking from high speed is lovely - and that's with weedy 140mm rotors.

I can't see any disadvantages other than cost and a (pretty minor) weight increase.

However- when it's dry theres little advantage - but I want to ride my nice bike in the rain when I want to so like the versatility.

Edit- as per above poster yes set up issues can be a pain to resolve as per MTB discs. Not had any issues with the road discs other than getting hydraulic oil on one disc & pad so it was squeally until it was cleaned off thoroughly via hot water, washing up liquid and a hot oven (again same as MTB)

Have 105 hydros on my Condor. Don't regret it.

Takes a while to adjust to the extra stopping power.

Love the consistency of braking even in the rain.

Love that my wheels and brakes don't turn to a powdery sludgy abrasive gloop any more after wet weather braking.

Love not having that muck all over my hands if I have to fix a puncture.

Haters are gonna hate, and I can see the possibility of me potentially getting a rim braked fancy bike for high days and holidays, but the question was whether I regret and the answer is definitely "no"

Sram rival hydros on my cx comuter / Road bike dosnt get a look in these days. Can't fault them and certainly no regrets won't bother buying a bike with rim brakes again.

I have eTap HRD on my Bokeh, and they're very good. Powerful enough, progressive enough. Rear has started to make a grinding noise today though.
I still ride 600km in Italy on my Chorus rim brake equipped road bike 2 weeks ago, and they were also awesome.
Horses for courses.

105 Hydros here too. Love them, not had any issues with setup or maintenance, they just work and they work well.

I've only gone half hydro, but yes, wet weather performance is increased. Although I prefer my rim braked bike, and who likes riding in the rain anyway?!

As a heavier rider (c) I find the discs really good on longer steeper descents where the calliper brakes struggled after a while - possibly due to heat. In the dry on the flat there isn't much in it.

The people I passed today seemed to enjoy using them.

I have Ultegra hydro brakes on my cx and it gets used on the road a lot. It has the shimano ice tec rotors 160mm and it is silent braking wise (apart from the rattle from the internal rear hose)
I would not go back to cable disks - the bike came with trp spyres and the hydro's are so much better

BR505s on my Cube, if my old Tricross Singlecross had had hydraulic brakes, what happened at ~0645 on 23/12/2013 would have been very different. The stopping power on the Cube is amazing, even descending the cat4 hills I've been climbing recently.

Ha, so it seems my deep dislike of discs for road use is not due to discs in general, but just SRAM discs in particular.

Why I am I not surprised... 🙄

No, one disliked Sram, a second liked Sram. I'll add, i love my Sram rival hydros too.

I have SRAM Levels on my Superfly, which is peforming road bike duties for me until I can afford an actual road bike.

They are the worst thing about the bike.

So you have MTB brakes on an MTB and think that means road brakes are bad? Okay.

I have SRAM HRD brakes on my winter/office bike. Perfectly happy with them, would get disc brakes on a new road bike without hesitation.

Some mixed feelings with mine (R685).

In the dry the stopping power is great. Genuinely can ride some of the steep twisty lanes (1 5 and steeper) with far more confidence.

After a wet ride, the bike stays remarkably clean - not covered in brake pad gunge.

For me however the ergonomics are woeful (I have Campag on my summer bike). The hoods are very long, so when I have the flats and the drops in the right position, the natural position on the hoods is a bit stretched out.

Secondly, I have relatively small hands for a bloke. Even with the reach adjust would all the way in, I can't actually wrap a finger tip around the lever end from the drops, and then when you try and grab the lever, it just moves sideways out the way, thanks to the shifting setup with the brake lever blade playing double duties. It's liveable with in the summer, but it's a proper issue in big winter gloves. That then leaves the bite point very close to the bars, so there's a lot of lever pull to get through - again an issue in thick gloves, as it's quite possible to get the glove material caught between the bars and the lever and impede the pull.

I also struggle with feel in the wet. The front's not too much of an issue as I can hear what's going on, but it's really difficult to finesse the point between braking and locked on the rear. I've had a couple of moments when I've ended up locking up without realising and nearly gone down as a result. Actually knocked my confidence to ride that hard in the wet, which completely defeats the point of a disced up winter roadie. I'm currently running a 160mm rear disc, Want to drop down to a 140mm to see if I get a bit more modulation out of that.

I've also had issues with contaminated rotors from traffic grime, which can make stopping very unpredictable - actually much worse than rim brakes, as there's absolutely nothing there until you get the rotor hot enough to burn the crap off.

All in all, bit of a mixed bag.

Have 105 hydros and for the most part they're great. Very smooth. I actually like the ergonomics and increased size. Stopping power isn't really any different to rim brakes, when on the standard pads in the dry.

Only downside for me is:

- Weight.
- The horrendous squeal I have!

There's something quite nice about rim brakes in the dry I think. And discs aren't the game changer that they were in MTBing. But nice to have on an all-weather bike.

Interesting. Same brakes on my CAADX that I use for commuting. Now it does have 40mm tyres and panniers weighing down the rear but it's ridiculously predictable.

SRAM Rival hydro disc on CX bike.

Shimano/Giant hybrid hydro on the commuter.

Carbon rims and rim brakes on summer bike.

Just bought another expensive 'summer' road bike - with rim brakes.

They all do their jobs well - discs are better in crap conditions but rim brakes are just as good in the dry, lighter and more aesthetically pleasing on a skinny minimalist road bike.

So you have MTB brakes on an MTB and think that means road brakes are bad? Okay.

I'd be pretty damn sure it's the same calliper, pad, fluid, hose, rotor, bolts etc. And in case you missed it, I'm not riding it off-road, it's being used almost entirely on tarmac, with 29er wheels fitted with 38c slicks, so like any modern gravel/road bike. Other than that though, good point 🙄

Anyway, I'm obviously still in a minority and JamieP has rightly called me up for my confirmation bias ignoring the other happy SRAM users

I have the 105s wouldn't buy a bike without them.

Been playing with this, apart from the uncomfortable levers the brakes are great, modulation is good , as it stopping power. only used in the dry so far so no real advantage over a good set of rim brakes, in fact i'd say they were on a par with a set of Ultegra rim brakes
[img] [/img]

Not massively convinced. They're good when I'm pressing the bike into off road service. A bit squealy and nasty on the road. Pad wear is about 40% from normal braking, and the other 60% from pre-braking to avoid howling rotors, and bedding in new pads. This last set of front pads squealed all the way until there was only a slither of material left, and now they're as good as gold. All genuine Shimano kit.

The major drawback of road disks is that they ocassionally shreik fit to wake the dead. Both my TRP Hy/Rd and non-series Ultegra have done so.

My theory (feel free to shoot it down): 1. roads spray up all sorts of contaminated oily crap onto your rotors. Mountains spray up only good healthy gritty mud. 2. MTB steep and twisty means one puts a hell of a lot more heat through your brakes, this further keeps them clean and quiet. Road biking by contrast involves not nearly so much braking, so one doesn't routinely get the heat build up which would burn off the badness.

The result of 1 and 2 is that MTB disk brakes are nice and quiet, but road disk brakes are max shreik.

Just a theory.

Crimsond - you may be right. Get round it by breaking really really late. 28mm tyres might help.

My 105 brakes suffer from squeal, but a good clean of the rotors and sand/gas hob session on the pads seems like it sorts it out.

Even in the dry I find they offer way more power than rim brakes. I was on my rim braked bike today, you do adjust to it, but there's noticeably less power available.

I'd be pretty damn sure it's the same calliper, pad, fluid, hose, rotor, bolts etc. And in case you missed it, I'm not riding it off-road, it's being used almost entirely on tarmac, with 29er wheels fitted with 38c slicks, so like any modern gravel/road bike. Other than that though, good point

Yes, but the levers are different. Every member on this forum can proffer an opinion on MTB discs, but the feel of them comes more or less entirely from the levers.

FWIW I've got RS785 Di2 STIs on the disc bike and find they feel nearly identical to the 9070 STIs on the 'nice' bike and the 6900s on the turbo bike. No issues with hoses sticking out or hood shape being odd

I have four road bikes, three disc and one rim brake.

The RS785 Di2 STI on my synapse are nice but feel inconsistent and a long lever pull before anything happens.
Hoods shape is ok, I can use it but probably my least favourite.

Cx1 force, far more consistent than the 785s. Nice solid lever feel and very easy to modulate.
I hate the look of the hoods but they're super comfy to use. Have these on the gravel bike and have done some major descending without issue. ( 1400 meters over 5k )

Another bikes has force 22 levers with SPyres. I still really like theses and would use again. Easy to set up and plenty powerful. A step up from rim brakes.

Th best brakes I have are ultegra callipers with black prince pads on Reynolds assault carbon rims. In the dry they are stupidly powerful BUT, and here is the BUT.
Where I live they I risk overheating the rims and in the wet they are more than puckering when they don't bite.

If I could only have one, it would be the force cx1

Even in the dry I find they offer way more power than rim brakes. I was on my rim braked bike today, you do adjust to it, but there's noticeably less power available.

I'm inclined to agree. I went to the Vosges over the weekend and descending I would have preferred to have the disc bike but that was only on one descent which was all switchbacks (the other "swoopy" ones, I couldn't have cared less). The ultegra rim brakes are good but not QUITE as good. Going uphill I was happier with the rim one as it's both lighter and has a bigger cassette.

Yes, but the levers are different. Every member on this forum can proffer an opinion on MTB discs, but the feel of them comes more or less entirely from the levers.

Granted, but I wasn't commenting on feel, I was commenting on other aspects of the performance (squeel, noise, calliper misalignment etc.) that aren't really affected by the lever, so it seemed like a valid comparison.

CrimsonD's point above probably applies to me though, I've always been a light braker (I do lots of braking, just well in advance and lightly feathering rather than hauling on at the last minute) so perhaps discs will never really work on the road for me, or I should just use 140mm rotors all round to get some heat in them (at 85kg... 😯 )

I'm off to the Alps in September and still can't really decide which bike to take. The rim brake bike is 'nicer'; Dura Ace not Ultegra, 4lbs lighter, more comfortable, but I wouldn't really fancy the carbon clinchers on Alpine descents, and I don't think I can overlook how much more fun I'll have descending on the bike with discs.

I've no idea how on and on can find Ultegra calipers on carbon rims to be the best his brakes. I was very happy with the performance of mine until I used discs. I'm still content with them, but to say they out perform discs in any circumstance is lunacy IMO.

I'd agree disc brake better, much more confidence inspiring.

However, as a couple of others have said I couldn't get on with the shape of RS685 and I got rid of them. They do seem to get contaminated and noisy as well, unless you do regularly hard stops or descents.

Just about to build a road bike and it'll have rim brakes (also means I can have a go at racing again)

The biggest disadvantage of rim brakes was the *really* bad performance of long drop calipers which you need for 25mm tyres + 'guards so I'm sticking with standard drop calipers.

If I want discs for commuting I'll stick with a fast hybrid now (lots cheap too and a place for my old MTB bits too!).

I'm off to the Alps in September and still can't really decide which bike to take. The rim brake bike is 'nicer'; Dura Ace not Ultegra, 4lbs lighter, more comfortable, but I wouldn't really fancy the carbon clinchers on Alpine descents, and I don't think I can overlook how much more fun I'll have descending on the bike with discs.

Practise your braking technique. I lost count of the number of people I saw with blow outs descending Alpe d'Huez from dragging their brakes on carbon rims. I didn't find any problems descending with caliper brakes in the dry (there's plenty of grip for late braking into the corner) but it would've been a trial in the wet. You'll also have a lot more fun on the way back up on a light bike.

Even in the dry I find they offer way more power than rim brakes. I was on my rim braked bike today, you do adjust to it, but there's noticeably less power available.

I'd agree with this - having ridden a CX bike on the road with disks recently, it just highlights how truely crap rim brakes are.

I'd not even consider anything but a disk braked road bike now if I was buying one.

Have HY/RD on the tripster. Would be perfectly happy with calipers on road, but that said the weight penalty is worth it for me (only competing with myself) on road also for consistency and lack of maintenance. I'd say nice to have on road, but a real plus off and touring.

That said, just waiting on a swap to Ultegra hydros this week .. can't wait to try them out as the final part of the puzzle!

Njee20

While your in the alps , feel free to pop by and try the bikes if you like 🙂
If you're doing consistent big stops, you'd be mad not to take the disc bike.

In the dry the rim brakes do stop harder than the discs - maybe my technique is driven by the paranoia that I'll over heat the rim brakes so hit them harder and drag the disc a little more.

Practise your braking technique. I lost count of the number of people I saw with blow outs descending Alpe d'Huez from dragging their brakes on carbon rims.

Happy with my technique, I'm not a brake dragger, and have never actually had problems with carbon clinchers, just know I'd be more tentative on a long descent versus discs.

In the dry the rim brakes do stop harder than the discs - maybe my technique is driven by the paranoia that I'll over heat the rim brakes so hit them harder and drag the disc a little more.

So they perform differently because you treat them differently...? That's like saying mechanical shifting performs better because I let Di2 go flat. The discs have the ability to stop 'harder', whether you exploit that is something else entirely.

We're staying in Bourg d'Oisans - if you're local then a guide would be marvellous for a day! I'll have a chance of keeping up with a local if I've got discs 😉

wilburt - Member
The people I passed today seemed to enjoy using them.

I run hy-rds on the commuter. It's fine, but I did have a strange problem with gunk running down the back of the fork leg and into the caliper, which gave me truly horrendous pad life (~100 miles) in poor weather (and short intervals between adjustments on the previous all mechanical setup - no brakes by the time I arrived at work).

TL:DR - they're reliable and low maintenance now, but they weren't for a while. I have at least as much power available in the dry on my other road bike, if you're getting inadequate braking in the dry from rim brakes I'd suggest you find out what's wrong with them. Cables (and pivots) can end up full of crap and affect performance.

I need new wheels for my rim braked road bike, because I've worn out the rear wheels rim in around 8000Km of use.

I've also had a rear rim fail on the brake trak during a long tour.

this indicates I drag the back brake far too much; but I'm also loath to spend loads of money on a wheel set that'll need binned because I'm a jessie on the descents, when it could be a 30 quid rotor instead. (oh and brake pad life, I've just after 5000ish km changed the organic disc pads on my disc shod road bike (mostly used in winter rain); I think I had gone through 3 sets of rear and 1 set of front pads in that distance on the rim braked bike (mostly used in summer rain).

that said, sod buying a disc braked bike until things have calmed down and mavic know what to put on their neutral service cars (as this indicates an axle standard has been argued over and 3 are in use rather than 6)

"until things have calmed down"...?

QR axles then.

£5 says i can still buy new QR hubs in 10 years, i won't make the same bet with boost, 100x12 (or whatever), etc.

NWallace, how often have you had to use the Mavic neutral service cars?

Not strictly relevant to the discussion but the big push to discs on road bikes has little to nothing to do with braking, not directly at least.
Making carbon rims that can withstand high braking temperatures is both difficult and expensive. Bike manufacturers want to be able to put carbon wheels on more of their bikes because that's what the punters want, but in order to push carbon wheels down the range they need to be cheaper without running the risk of a massive lawsuit when someone blows a rim at high speed coming down an alpine descent on their annual holiday.
Hence step 1, move all road bikes over to disc brakes, paving the way for step 2, a flood of mid range bikes aimed directly at the keen MAMIL/ sportive rider with spangly deep section carbon rims.

Happy with my technique, I'm not a brake dragger, and have never actually had problems with carbon clinchers, just know I'd be more tentative on a long descent versus discs.

I don't think there's any reason to be more tentative if it's dry - I found that there was loads of grip on those alpine descents, so was happy braking hard and late into the corners. It took me the first few hairpins of AdH to get my head around it, then I just went for it.

Didn't say it was rational, just know it would be in mind. A friend was a guide and was expressly forbidden from using carbon clinchers, seen too many warp under heavy braking - what if a car suddenly overtakes and stops etc etc. I have a decent disc braked bike sat there, why wouldn't I just take it?

Hence step 1, move all road bikes over to disc brakes, paving the way for step 2, a flood of mid range bikes aimed directly at the keen MAMIL/ sportive rider with spangly deep section carbon rims.

Not convinced that's overly true. I think people are more likely to be attracted by discs at the MAMIL level than deep section wheels.

What's the score with racing on discs currently? can I do a local Surrey League 3rds race on discs?

Chicken or egg situation really isn't it I guess.. Think it's mostly turned out luckily for the manufacturers that disc brakes are proving popular with the public for the most part.
As for racing.. grey area it seems. Technically as they are currently regarded as UCI legal then any UCI sanctioned race you can use discs.. From what I've seen and heard though it's a bit of a lottery with organisers as to whether they'll let you race with them when you turn up on the day.
There are still big Sportive/Gran Fondo events in Europe where people are claiming to be having problems riding with discs..

What's the score with racing on discs currently? can I do a local Surrey League 3rds race on discs?

British Cycling say:
[b]disc brakes are banned in all domestic road and closed circuit racing.[/b]

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roa20111219-road-News--Dics-Brakes-in-Road-Racing-0#isSi8Bu1iTORk5Vm.99

Thanks for all the replies, really informative. It seems like the only real negatives are keeping them well set up to avoid squealing and standards. The standards are a big deal for me as i have been caught out by this in the past. I was looking at a tarmac disc comp which has a unique and very narrow hub, QR, and post mount but it looks like the standards are settling at 145mm rear spacing, 12mm axles and flat mount. It's almost worth waiting another year to see if this is how it pans out but I've got the itch ...
.

I've been using disc brakes on my commuting/winter/touring/general purpose road bike for just under 15 years now. The main advantage for me is not performance (my 2001 Dura Ace calipers are still snappier and have plenty of stopping power) but rather easier maintenance, less wear and filth on a bike that gets used year round, all weather.

I started with BB7s and I've now used HyRds for a few years, which are better, but still have some issues. My end game is full hydro and I think 105 looks viable for me now.

If you are agnostic about brakes, I doubt you would regret moving to full hydro. I think the main remaining advantages for rim brakes are cost, weight and being race legal. If those are not critical requirements, hydro discs would be my choice.

I got shimano hydraulics on my cx bike which I used on road over winter. Braking is better than rim brakes when its wet for sure ... but your still restricted how hard you can brake if the road is wet ... so probably not as big a difference as most here are claiming.

I see no reason at all for having discs on the summer bike.

KCR, I really agree with the cost point - to get a 105 spec carbon bike is well over £2K, the cost of entry is very high. And I am looking for 1 bike for all year round so don't have the luxury of a super light dry use only summer bike

FWIW I just built up a Chinese frame with carbon wheels, Ultegra Di2 and discs for less than £2k.

If you want to avoid proprietary standards then the Tarmac is a really bad choice! It does seem to be settling on 12x100 front, 12x142 rear and flat mounts, but I don't think it'll ever be truly unified.

claudie - Member
KCR, I really agree with the cost point - to get a 105 spec carbon bike is well over £2K

[panto] Oh no it isn't! [/panto] 😆

If you buy at the right time, it could cost far less, but I suspect the EOL 2016 bargains may be last crazy good deals due to the weakening pound.

May bank hol weekend, 10% off listed prices at Rutland on bikes over £1k, one of the last Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016s for ~£900... Winner, winner, chicken dinner. 8)

Sales aren't the best example, particularly when they've sold out, about as useful as saying "in 1999 they were dirt cheap".

[url= https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-disc-8-0.html ]Canyon[/url] do one for £1800 though, and [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/cube-attain-gtc-pro-disc-road-bike-2017/rp-prod154512?gs=1&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE-Shopping+QLB+Product+Desktop&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid|sy6lBzFsY_dc|pcrid|161846674033|pkw||pmt||prd|564368UK ]Cube[/url] for £1700. I imagine Spesh are over £2k though.

I'm pretty converted now with shimano 685 with 785 levers (I believe) really nice modulated power, don't have to worry about over heating rims on descents, silent in operation. Unaffected by wet weather and no dirty rim mess you get from calipered brakes in wet conditions. Frame looks a bit cleaner without them too. No going back for me but not the game changer they were for mountain bikes, just a nice evolution in performance. Just got some nice zipp carbon rims which have turned out to be a noticeable upgrade. Have been absolutely maintenance free and I'm still on original pads after 3k and 140mm discs are easily big enough

the cost of entry is high as Shimano charge a fortune for their hydro STIs, which is no doubt why Giant developed and made their own hybrid system that is fitted to their Contend (alloy Defy so budget) range. And why so many nice '105' and 'ultegra' spec bikes come with Shimano's gopping non-series hydro STIs.

Any opinions on the bb5's?