[Closed] Road bikes: what makes a good climber?

Light wheels and a light powerful person to make them spin, would imagine slight differences in geo wouldn't make as much difference as a lightweight wheelset

Interesting. I have a cross bike, a SS and a carbon flashy road bike which I bought as I wasnt finding my cx bike uncomfortable on long rides (and it needed new tyres and a bigger chain ring)...

Based on strava times so not exactly scientific....

I'm fastest on the CX bike, and only slower on the SS (over short distances) by a few minutes.

Top speeds recorded by speedo on long steady down hill (stanningley road into Leeds)
CX bike 51mph
road bike 49mph
SS 34mph

SO yeah, my fast road bike isn\t so fast. I wonder wether its a confidence thing, given that I've ridden thousands of miles on the cx as a commuter and my main road bike for the last 6 years, its solid and reliable and owes me nothing, where as the carbon road bike was very expensive (to me), is my first carbon bike and I'm terrified of breaking it?

as above wheel weight is noticable, being lower at the front doesnt make much difference at those speeds unless the position is so wrong your power is limited.

One other thing to consider would be gearing, my mate tends to climb fast than me despite similar bike and fitness because his standard forces him to climb fast compared to my compact spin up where i can relax (i would however expect this to work in favor of the road bike being faster)

Wheels, gearing, frame stiffness would all probably make more difference than geometry (given the geo will be fairly close). Worth timing things to as feeling sluggish doesn't necessarily mean it's slower. Wheels aside though I notice my fancy bike more on the flat/descents than the ascents, it's much stiffer and more direct handling.

Meehaja

Recently,I have been faster downhill on my CX as it feels more stable.
It may be down to the geometry+fat tyres+ and that I ride it a lot more. The carbon road bike on the other hand feels more twitchy,so maybe I hold back a bit.
It does however ,go uphill like a rocket. 🙂
FWIW I think a lot of climbing is in the mind,I know a few people that should be brilliant climbers ,but they give up .

FWIW I think a lot of climbing is in the mind,I know a few people that should be brilliant climbers ,but they give up .

This, as well as the wheels issue.

I was having a good day Sunday I admit, but I passed several in our group sitting up, standing up, or changing down a gear, whereas I was able to keep a constant pace goingn throught out the climbs.

Thanks all.

Sorry - wheels and gearing are also the same (transferred across)

Cross is alu; Road is Columbus steel. As I said, weight is the same.

It might be feel but I doubt it - I am struggling on things I cruised up in the saddle last year. I'm not as fit as I was a few months ago but can't imagine that I've lost this much ability.

Still a bit confused!

Fitness. Forget the 'gram' saving. Invest in turbo, gym and get out and train on hills. This will having a surprising affect of allowing you to climb hills easy. You cant buy your way out of the problem.

strong legs and a strong mind.

You cant buy your way out of the problem

But this way is a lot more fun and a lot less effort 😉

Other than the obvious overall weight (of bike and rider) I'd say short chain stays, longer stem, light wheel/tyre combo. Terrible generalisation though given the number of variables,

I think I'm a pretty good climber, proably one of the strongest in our club at the moment (yeah I know its winter and I'll probably soon be left for dead....)

3 things spring to mind

1- Fitness, specifically gained on hills
2- Planning, ramp up your effort and plan to reach max efford near the top
3- weight of bike and wheels

Do you ride the CX bike up hills a lot more?

I find I get better at climbing on the bikes I'm riding most

I'd say that a alu CX bike would be a noticeably stiffer than a steel road bike which would make a difference. My slow cadence means that I climb much better on a bike with a stiff rear triangle, unfortunately that often but not always means it's uncomfortable on longer rides.

Yeah, I ride a colombus airplane tubed track frame, stiff as a paedo in a nursery and absolutely rockets up hills but certainly beats up one's arse on longer rides

Weight and stiffness are all that really matter, so that you waste less of your power output on lifting or bending the bike. Assuming your position is comfortable and efficent, geometry is pretty irrelevant for climbing.
However, the bike itself is still a relatively small part of what will make you climb well. It's your fitness, and more specifically your power to weight ratio, that is most important.

Have you ridden the same climb under the same conditions on each bike within a day or two of each other? Sounds like you rode the CX last year when you were fitter, and have now moved everything to the road bike? You might benefit from a more direct comparison.

IME it doesn't take long for your legs/lungs to lose some edge when it comes to climbing.

ormondroyd - Member
Do you ride the CX bike up hills a lot more?

Yes - the road bike is new. My cross bike is going from being a do-everything bike to just being a cross bike. Climbing was always my strength on the cross bike and I deliberately did hilly routes and left better riders for dead on climbs.

Stiffness is interesting. Now you mention it, I did hear a bit of brake rub when I was really fighting it.

I don't really believe that frame stiffness is going to be a huge factor worth more than a few percent on a climb.

I do believe that muscle conditioning around a particular geometry, and simply knowing the "feel" of a bike on a climb can have a big difference. I definitely acquired much better ability to climb on my road bike just by doing it more.

I'm similarly confused as to why I was faster up climbs on my old remedy when I was unfit than when on my new carbon 29er and appreciably fitter.

tonyd - Member
Have you ridden the same climb under the same conditions on each bike within a day or two of each other?

Good point. Some objective testing required.

I'm not as fit as I was a few months ago but can't imagine that I've lost this much ability

So how long has the gap been between riding one up a hill then riding the other up the same hill?

It might be feel but I doubt it - I am struggling on things I cruised up in the saddle last year. I'm not as fit as I was a few months ago but can't imagine that I've lost this much ability.

i find i am much slower at this time of year, not really fitness but just the cold and dark. Same bike same route.

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I bet that's fun if you happen to drop into the [i]drops[/i] 😯

When I learned that it was going to hurt a lot on long climbs and to just deal with it, I got faster. I FEEL faster on my carbon bike but actually I'm not, it just has a wider range of gears so the same speed up the hill is a little easier. Which actually means I COULD be faster but I'm not trying quite as hard. On my MTB I realised I was actually stopping climbs before I needed to and walking just because it was offroad, I never (well only twice actually) have done that on the road bike.

So what makes a good climber (assuming you're not a pro) is practice and the mental aspect.

I do believe that muscle conditioning around a particular geometry, and simply knowing the "feel" of a bike on a climb can have a big difference. I definitely acquired much better ability to climb on my road bike just by doing it more.

short climb - power to weight
long climb - weight, endurance, technique and mental toughness

Not sure it adds much to the argument, but I rode up Pool Bank in daylight for the first time this year and was a lot faster.

I can only conclude that either:

A) Dark is more viscous than light and slows you down.
B) My receding hairline is turning into a solar panel, powering my legs.

Certainly nothing to do with fitness improving...

Does wheel weight really matter? Heavier wheels have more flywheel effect which will even out the power impulses when climbing steadily.

I "feel" faster on the lighter wheels I have. Whether I am, I don't really know.

Heavier wheels have more flywheel effect which will even out the power impulses when climbing steadily.

Climbing you dont want a lower hand position, you want to be on the tops on the majority of climbs.
The most obvious influences would be if the gearing on your road bike does not allow you to pedal at your ideal cadence and differences in saddle fore and aft relative to the bottom bracket on the two bikes, similarly if you have different pedals, then differences in cleat position.

One of the largest effects from equipment is tyres and tubes. Latex tubes and nice vittorias will give you a bit compared to crappy rubber, certainly more than frame stiffness IMO.

Light wheels and a fixed wheel works for me on my 17lb track/hill climbing bike.

Otherwise it's the mental fortitude of the engine.

Does wheel weight really matter? Heavier wheels have more flywheel effect which will even out the power impulses when climbing steadily.

That was my thought, on light wheels my bike feels different. In some ways it feels slower as you associate the stability of the flywheel effect with going fast.

FWIW I think a lot of climbing is in the mind,I know a few people that should be brilliant climbers ,but they give up .

There's no doubt that lighter wheels feel faster (and accelerate faster). But I'd like to see some proof that they actually improve efficiency. I'm fairly certain that the reason heavier tyres feel slower is not because they're heavy but because they cause more energy loss in the carcass compared to a lighter (and more flexible) tyre.

I'm fairly certain that the reason heavier tyres feel slower is not because they're heavy but because they cause more energy loss in the carcass compared to a lighter (and more flexible) tyre.

Light wheels and a fixed wheel works for me on my 17lb track/hill climbing bike.

Effort and weight aside, no-one's mentioned gearing?

On my Kaffenback I run a 53-39 double and a 12-26 block to make my relatively flat commute harder up the hills to improve my fitness. If I switched to a compact/triple and a bigger block it'd be less painful.

I read somewhere that Wiggo runs a lower MTB block on his TdF climbing bikes.

Effort and weight aside, no-one's mentioned gearing?

yes i did 🙂

good set of wheels and some Ivy

On my Kaffenback I run a 53-39 double and a 12-26 block to make my relatively flat commute harder up the hills to improve my fitness.

Talking to a past very good local cyclist about a recent trip over Hardknott "what did u use to climb it" "34-29" "you soft git" "why what did you use" "42-21" "what" "it was either that or if you were a girl 42-24" said it was just a case of pedaling halves or even quarters til you summit, so pretty much mental, Ive used 25 then 28 now 29 on my bikes and it aint any easier!!!!I can climb much quicker and stay down the gears much longer if I decide to tail one of the better climbers, if i`m alone its up the gears as soon as I start and spin away. As others say very much in the head in my opinion.

Talking to a past very good local cyclist about a recent trip over Hardknott "what did u use to climb it" "34-29" "you soft git" "why what did you use" "42-21" "what" "it was either that or if you were a girl 42-24" said it was just a case of pedaling halves or even quarters til you summit, so pretty much mental, Ive used 25 then 28 now 29 on my bikes and it aint any easier!!!!I

I agree, more or less. Riding a compact decreases my climbing speed with no perceptible decrease in effort - with the exception of on ludicrously steep climbs like Hardknott or Winnats.

Where's that study where tires were filled with water then ridden up Alpe d'Huez?

It suggested that wheel weight was no more significant than non rotating weight.

IMO lots of things feel faster, few actually are.

IMO, weight loss to improve power - weight (on you, not the bike), better fitness and leg strength, choosing the right gear, good wheels and tyres, plus mental determination - love the pain. Also breathing is important - sounds silly but my weakness last year was climbing hills at 19+mph. Deep breaths rather than short shallow ones lowered my HR by around 5bpm, taking me out of the feeling sick zone into "hurts but i can survive" zone.

I'm convinced that 'climbing wheels' are a category dreamed up by marketing departments. Weight is weight once at a steady speed, it only matters during acceleration and even then only really at the rim and tyres. I guess when your at the top level those lighter wheels would help you do a Contador style climbing attack but wouldn't be so use to a Wiggins diesel style climber.

my weakness last year was climbing hills at 19+mph

Climbing hills at >19mph is a weakness of mine too 😯

I read somewhere that Wiggo runs a lower MTB block on his TdF climbing bikes.

Quite a few pro riders stick an MTB cassette onto their bikes to help on the worst days

Have you ridden the same climb under the same conditions on each bike within a day or two of each other? Sounds like you rode the CX last year when you were fitter, and have now moved everything to the road bike? You might benefit from a more direct comparison

Exactly. Do some better quality testing then get back to us. I bet there's practically no difference as long as you maintain the same effort for each bike.

Weight will not be an issue as 1kg will only cost you 1 minute up Alpe-d'Huez- and it doesn't matter if that kg is on the frame or wheels. Stiffness matters even less so.

Effort and weight aside, no-one's mentioned gearing?

I thought the op said he'd transferred the gears and wheels across.

[url= http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=msdT4iQ50cgC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq=effect+of+weight+on+cycling+climbing&source=bl&ots=Udhi3SZ79f&sig=PhvvD4fybzVbIVLNCm1wxNHxNpk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UYv1UKf9C-fW0QWmu4DQCg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=effect%20of%20weight%20on%20cycling%20climbing&f=false ]This[/url] is interesting, well maybe if you get past a page or two.

Ever wondered how much difference it would make if you made your bike lighter? I guess most serious riders once in while have concerns about their bikes whether they are light enough. As previously described the bike weight has impact on performance – especially during climbing.

Thus, I thought it was interesting to find out how much difference it makes if you ride a heavier bike up alpe d’Huez. This little trial was performed by the best rider I coach as a part of his preparation for Tour de l’avenir (U23 Tour de France) in September 2008.

In this experiment he had to ride up Alpe d’Huez four times with different setups. He was supposed to keep a pace around 275w on all four rides. The test bike was a Pinarello Prince equipped with Shimano Dura Ace and SRM crank:

1. Normal bike + 1.8L extra water in tyres(!)
This setup was quite interesting and got quite a lot of attention the day before when he had a puncture..! It was possible to fill 900ml into each tyre. Reducing weights on wheels is more important than reducing weight on non-rolling equipment e.g. bike saddle.

2. Normal bike + 1,8L extra water on bike.
This setup also got some serious attention because he rode a relative fast pace compared to most riders visiting Alpe d’Huez. Thus, when he performed the trial, well-trained riders were trying to keep up with his pace because this setup looked so extreme.

3. Normal bike
This setup was a completely normal bike.

4. Normal bike, reduced tyre pressure only 3 bars.
The last setup was ridden with reduced tyre pressure to 3bars. This was a tough finish on the last ride up Alpe d’Huez this day.

Results:
1. 52.01, 275w
2. 51.34, 277w
3. 49.40, 278w
4. 50.38, 273w

1,8L extra weight costs 1.54min up Alpe d’Huez. This is a remarkable test that shows us how important weight savings are when you are riding on steep hills. Also it shows that weight savings on wheels might be more important than weight saving on non-rolling equipment. These trials were only possible because of his SRM Crank that made it possible to compare each ride up the hill. You can make similar trials to test your bike setup if you want to optimize your bike equipment. These tests can be extremely helpful for e.g. time trialists if you don’t have wind tunnel in the neighbourhood.

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Someone dig him up and tell him he's doing it wrong.

1'54" for the difference between a superbike and a 9kg one - that's a lot, out of sight.

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Literally made for the job

So allegedly is this, but I cant get it to work
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Is that stomping though or pedalling smoothly? The latter is more efficient obviously so will be faster. As long as you are spinning the biggest gear you can sustain (with proper technique) it doesn't matter how you achieve it surely?

efficient yes, faster, no.
All you have to do is turn the cranks round and round and get the bike to move forward as fast as possible. For some this means lower gear fast, others bigger gear a bit slower.

I count in blocks of four when climbing

I also start pretty low sitting down when that gets too hard I stand up, when that gets too hard I change gear and repeat, I never usually climb the complete block

Dales_rider - Member
So allegedly is this, but I cant get it to work

Stem's to short and bars are to high. Possibly.

Best climbing bikes for me have had short stays, long top tubes, long stems and low bars. Thats for out of the saddle climbing though, and I'm pretty tall.

Putting water in tyres is just about the most stupid way of analysing the effect of increased rotating weight - you'd simultaneously increase rolling resistance through decreased tyre compliance and add extra losses through the water's viscosity when moving within the tyre. Faux science at its best (worst)...

davidtaylforth - Member

Dales_rider - Member
So allegedly is this, but I cant get it to work

Stem's to short and bars are to high. Possibly.

No at 120 its just right, could it be any thing to do with the 95 kilos it has to carry ?