[Closed] Road bikes; disc brakes the future??

Do you feel the need for better braking on your road bike? Get a test ride on a road bike with discs then decide.

Synapse disc?

Plenty of options now; BMC, Boardman, Focus, Trek, Spesh....

Go with rim brakes if you want inferior brakes by all means.

Apparently the major sticking point is [url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/uci-approves-testing-of-disc-brakes-in-the-professional-peloton-166602 ]whether or not the UCi will sanction them for road racing[/url] seeing at that's pretty likely now I think discs will become more prevalent on road bikes.

The real question is, are there any benefits for [i]normal[/i] people buying road bikes? to which the answer is probably yes, pick the bike you enjoy riding more the stoppers are only one part of the equation IMO...
How often do you really feel the performance of rim brakes is an issue at present?

Another few years and discs will be properly established on road bikes, how popular they will be remains to be seen...

Go with rim brakes if you want inferior brakes by all means.

You are quite right, I want this on my next road bike 😆

[img] [/img]

Just because it's inferior doesn't mean it's not good enough.

I don't see the need on a dry weather bike, and it will be lighter with rim brakes too.

I don't see the need on a dry weather bike, and it will be lighter with rim brakes too

+1

Discs make the bike less aero too.

Have a road bike with discs. Have a roa bike without.

Would get discs if an option. Consistent all weather braking and no rim wear on wheels either.

Also huge control over the power with a single finger.

But heavier than rim brakes but unless you're 5% body fat bit irrelevant??

I can see the need for discs if, like me, you ride your road bike all through the winter. But for a dry weather bike there's no point IMO, as traditional brakes can lock a rear wheel or endo a bike.

less aero? might matter if your name is Bradley Wiggins or Tony Martin smashing a WC TT. I think the all year round stopping power over a marginal aero gain, is on balance, more beneficial for most. Racing road at the top tier? They will be good even on my daughters balance bike.

I can see the need for discs if, like me, you ride your road bike all through the winter. But for a dry weather bike there's no point IMO, as traditional brakes can lock a rear wheel or endo a bike.

there you go OP the answer is get two bikes...

discs for winter, keep a road bike with Rim brakes for summer/racing... Oh and probably best get a Cross bike too for good measure... 😉

you all have missed the crucial question .... what axle standard 😉

I can lock the wheels of my road bike with rim brakes in all weathers.

Therefore rim brakes are powerful enough (the tyres are the limiting factor) and the only argument is if disc brakes are lighter.

I think someone has already stated that discs are heavier.

So I see no reason to buy a road bike with disc brakes.

This conversation has a lot of parallels with the 26" Vs 29" wheel argument on mountain bikes - just fashion innit 😀

i wonder if Alexandre Geniez would have preferred discs yesterday at the Giro?

I can see the need for discs if, like me, you ride your road bike all through the winter. But for a dry weather bike there's no point IMO, as traditional brakes can lock a rear wheel or endo a bike.

I ride my bike all through winter and TBH don't feel the need (at least with decent winter pads.) But then I don't commute through lots of traffic and I don't live somewhere with lots of steep twisty downs to negotiate. Maybe if I did I'd want discs. Rim wear could be an issue but mine last years. I brake very infrequently on most rides!

Anyway, hasn't this already been done to death on many other threads...?

I have one of each- I was riding my summer bike in winter and the brakes were dire and decided that my winter bike would have discs. This has, in general, been a good decision but the feel of Avid BB5s compared to Ultegra rim brakes is horrendous- spongy and needs way more lever pull to clear the disc. I've not ridden the Spyres on the Defy but give them a go- they may be better.

I went out on my summer bike for the first time in ages last night and the braking feel was a revelation.

dirtyrider;

I just watched that video and two out of the four corners he locked the wheels. So no issue with brake power but a problem of lack of tyre adhesion!

The other two I couldn't make out what happened but he did seem to be going in too fast - either a lack of brake power or, more likely, he was afraid of locking up the wheel again and went easy on the brake carrying too much speed and running wide.

dirtyrider - Member

i wonder if Alexandre Geniez would have preferred discs yesterday at the Giro?

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Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-Post

Have you watched that video?

the issue in the video is not the strength of his brakes but the fact that road was so slippy he couldnt lean the bike over.

Explain how more powerful brakes would have helped in that situation?

I just watched that video and two out of the four corners he locked the wheels

yer but carbon has that lovely

not braking, ****
not braking, ****
not braking, ****
GRABS, ****

feeling,

discs have control

Oh FFS are people still assuming that discs are [b]just[/b] about power? Really, even on an mtbing forum when we went through this when Vs gave way to discs despite Vs also having plenty of power?

Phillip Gilbert recently commented on this disk brake thing. He was against them for racing for safety reasons. Peloton going into bends and braking at different distances and the point of disks being red hot after descending.

I think they prob ideally suited for the heavier riders (mamil's) but for racing, the braking will be subtle, last thing they need is to lock wheels up.
The industry will try to push it through though.
Perfect way to sell new bikes.

Have a road bike with discs. Have a roa bike without.

Would get discs if an option. Consistent all weather braking and no rim wear on wheels either.

Also huge control over the power with a single finger.

This + 1000.

I have a cross bike with discs that i now use as my commuter. In the dry they are incredible to the point i could do an endo. In the wet they are also amazing. I notice my road bike rims are wearing pretty badly now + the crap from the pads gets all over the place. In the wet they are appalling in comparison

[i]Perfect way to sell new bikes.[/i]

Exactly. As the OP is getting a new bike, he should get one with the latest stuff on it. ie. disc brakes.

[edit] I can't see a reason [i]not[/i] to get discs on a new road bike, personally, if they're in budget.

Explain how more powerful brakes would have helped in that situation?

Shaved more speed off before the corner, so he's not relying on panic braking mid corner when everything gets rather squirrely? The issue is as much that braking on carbon rims is pretty shit in the wet (as DR says) I'd say!

As for the original question... they're [i]a[/i] future for road bikes, doubt they're 'the' future, I'm not fussed for a summer bike still.

I can out-descend any rim-braked road bike on my disc-braked CX.

And I'm a rubbish descender.
I can go faster knowing that I can slow or stop with complete control in any weather.
More modulation, more power, no rim wear.

And a +lots for this comment:

Oh FFS are people still assuming that discs are just about power? Really, even on an mtbing forum when we went through this when Vs gave way to discs despite Vs also having plenty of power?

I would get discs if buying a new all-weather bike now. Or if I wanted carbon rims.

But I'm quite happy with rim brakes for my "dry" bike with alu wheels.

Funny how people get so uptight about this though. I'm sure both work great.

I think it is fair to say that good rim brakes, in dry conditions are a match for mediocre discs.
As I only ride my road bike in the dry, and have decent brakes (105's with Swisstop pads) I don't feel the need to swap right now.
when I buy another summer bike in 3-4 years time, I expect it'll have discs, simply because I think they be the '650B of roadbikes' and appear everywhere, with bike manufacturers convincing people they are a vital upgrade over 'inferior and dangerous' rim brakes..

[i]Oh FFS are people still assuming that discs are just about power?...etc[/i]

Totally agree. Not about the power but all the other advantages.

ive got a disc cx and a rim brake roadbike, shimano cable discs and new 105 calipers.

i definately feel like i have more control on the cx and discs, especially in the wet. even though i mostly ride the road bike in the dry, given the steep twisty lanes with mud on and blind corners around here, i'm seriously tempted next time by road discs.

thers a descent into simonsbath in exmoor ive done on both bikes, in the wet on the rims and in driving snow on the cx.

im also lusting after building up one of those new mason bikes

strava says the cx was quicker down

It depends on how you plan on using your bike and the sort of terrain you'll be riding. For example; I live in an area with lots of steep hills; I ride my bike all year round; I've got a disc braked bike on the way since I seem to get through rims quite quickly over winter. If you only plan to ride when the weather's nice, then I'd get a rim braked bike (which I also have). Lighter, more aero, better looking, cheaper etc.

oh and i'm using shimano hydraulic brakes which are a world of difference to bb7s

Discs are the future but the timescales are unknown. It really depends on what the UCI does although the manufacturers have clearly started to produce them with non racers in mind (sportive and social riders).

If I wasn't actively racing my next bike would definitely have discs. My cross bike does and it was a massive improvement over cantis on my old one - both on and off road.

For now I need them to be legal in BC races before I get one. Advantages are clear to me. That said I wouldn't buy a new road bike purely to get discs as mine is fine as is. But if they are available and legal when I want a new bike I'd take them.

If there are significant advantages to the bike without discs then keep in mind the fact that people are currently running rim brakes with no real issues.

the braking will be subtle, last thing they need is to lock wheels up.

Intriguing. You can modulate power better with discs. Riding on my own, braking is subtle as I can see down the road and predict corner speed. In races I find braking more erratic and I use my brakes more and harder dues to "incidents" and concertinaing in the bunch as the pace changes. First few miles of most races is twitchy and I'm always covering my brakes.

Easier to sum it up all the above as:

Summer race bike - No

Winter / All purpose bike - Yes

I can lock the wheels of my road bike with rim brakes in all weathers.

there isn't a thread on discs without this nonsense popping up at least once...

I have always found tyres to be the limiting thing on a road bike in terms of stopping.

On alpine decents I have never had problems with rim brakes, and just wait until the braking really heats the tyre up and you get an amazing level of braking ability.

My current cx/road bike has discs. Offroad in the mud, there is no question, but on road in the wet I do not see any advantage, apart from you dont have to replace a rim.

I'm sure discs probably do stop quicker, but I cant really tell..

[s]Summer[/s] race bike - No, until Campag pull their finger out and make some

Any other bike - Yes

Disks are heavier, less aero and not allowed in racing (yet). What this means is you can only use them on rides to the cafe and back, and you burn off more calories in the process, thus can eat more cake.

As a result of eating more cake you can make the most of the increased stopping power.

Racer's aren't allowed nice food like cake, therefore can't have disks.

Disks are therefore amazeballs/full of win.

This conversation has a lot of parallels with the 26" Vs 29" wheel argument on mountain bikes - just fashion innit

Indeed, 26'ers have been left looking like the Dad at a teenagers birthday party.

26er = double dennim

69er = Jeremy Clarkson in jeans and jacket

29er = bang on trend

650b = T'shirt with a witty proclamation that the wearer thinks is cool.

sky's bike for selected races in August/September

[URL= http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/dansipods/FF6FD1B0-D8F2-4FBE-9D5D-8641CD4F7260_zpscwu066fh.pn g" target="_blank">http://i829.photobucket.com/albums/zz211/dansipods/FF6FD1B0-D8F2-4FBE-9D5D-8641CD4F7260_zpscwu066fh.pn g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Is there another vehicle built for speed that doesn't use disc brakes?

I can sort of get the "Dry weather" bike argument, but I cant afford/don't want a summer/winter bike, so I'd prefer to be able to control my bike, and in the wet on some of the steeper stuff I have up here, my rim brakes are close to scary.

Like njee20 I think they'll become more and more mainstream, but they won't ever be the only choice

I was incredibly sceptical about disc brakes on road bikes (bearing in mind I have ridden disc on mtb's for years) but actually getting a disc brake road bike, and owning it (not just a quick test ride)has firmly convinced how good it can be when done right

I would never buy a caliper brake road bike again, there's no advantage for me, only numerous disadvantages

being able to ride fast in full control in all weather, suffer no rim wear, and run GP4000 II tires in 28c is fantastic

regarding weight, the additional weight of the brake is only part of the equation, when done right - not just altering a frame mould to include a disc brake mount and adding material to the stays, but actually engineering a disc specific frame from the ground up

if you look at Giant, their 2015 Defy SL (with the integrated seat post) is the lightest road frame they have ever made, its lighter than their caliper brake TCR SL frame

[img] [/img]

my 2015 Defy Advanced Pro 1 is 8kg out the box which is very impressive for a £2,599 hydraulic disc brake bike with ultegra 11 speed and sub 1700gm disc brake wheels

Shaved more speed off before the corner, so he's not relying on panic braking mid corner when everything gets rather squirrely? The issue is as much that braking on carbon rims is pretty shit in the wet (as DR says) I'd say!

Sorry, don't see how better brakes would have given him better foresight to slow down more. Fact is he was trying to open a gap on the bunch and therefore was trying to carry as much speed as possible into the corners. As it goes his excess speed in very low grip conditions meant he was running wide for fear of slipping off if he leant it over anymore. He could have slowed down more with the brakes he had but chose not too as he was trying to go as fast as possible.

It's a well known feature of the roads in the giro that they are like glass in the rain.

As others have said I live in an area of steep hills (the lakes) and I ride rim brakes. If the weather is bad I'm not chucking into the corners on descents so hard I need to panic brake. If you're racing in bad conditions they will help but only if you ride to the limits of tyres. In this case the guy was past the limits of the tyres.

I have always found tyres to be the limiting thing on a road bike in terms of stopping.

People say that a lot. I'm not convinced it's actually right even though as I've pointed out previously, discs aren't really about power alone.

If you grab a fist full of (road bike) front brake in the wet (and in a straight line - different if mid bend but then modulation is even more important), I reckon you'll still endo rather than skid the front wheel which suggests that actually grip isn't the limiting factor - on the front at least - rear brakes are obviously easy to lock.

if you look at Giant, their 2015 Defy SL (with the integrated seat post) is the lightest road frame they have ever made

Actually, I believe it was their rim-braked version held that accolade, not much changed except a seatpost that can take a Di2 battery 😉 . Of course the disk version has yet to win Paris-Roubaix, so I shall wait for the new provenance before I replace mine 😉

Bigger issue for me is swapping wheels between bikes.

I would probably swap my rim-braked defy for that SL, for full disclosure.

Sorry, don't see how better brakes would have given him better foresight to slow down more. Fact is he was trying to open a gap on the bunch and therefore was trying to carry as much speed as possible into the corners. As it goes his excess speed in very low grip conditions meant he was running wide for fear of slipping off if he leant it over anymore. He could have slowed down more with the brakes he had but chose not too as he was trying to go as fast as possible.

[img] [/img]

In 5 years time when axle standards have settled down and the pros are racing them it will be as redundant an argument as MTB wheel size. Rim brake fans can scream at the dying of the light but the market will have moved on.

I've just spent 450 quid on carbon rim braked wheels, and all my MTBs are 26" so I am conservative (small C) not an early adopter, but discs offer manufacturers the same opportunity as wheel size - forcing you to replace as much as possible.

I've got two road bikes one disc one rim brake. I can pretty easily lock the wheels on both in the dry if I try for shits and giggles. I rarely lock the wheels on either when I'm actually riding. The only benefit of the disc brakes is if it's wet I don't have to guess about how much stopping power I have and the modulation of the brakes is just about tyre grip not a combination of guessing how the wet rims and tyres go.

@dirtyrider

I didn't realise that better brakes stop people over cooking it into corners when they are racing. that will be why no ever crashes in bad weather in corners in F1 or Moto GP......

Oh hold on....

[i]it will be as redundant an argument as MTB wheel size...[/i]

Ah!

+1

Discs make the bike less aero too.

Yes, on the wet descent of Hardknott in the Fred Whitton the other week I was really wishing that I was more aero and didn't have those pesky disc brakes. 🙄

crazy-legs - Member
+1
Discs make the bike less aero too.
Yes, on the wet descent of Hardknott in the Fred Whitton the other week I was really wishing that I was more aero and didn't have those pesky disc brakes.
POSTED 9 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I didn't really go fast enough down hardknott to need to slow that quickly on the whitton. Only averaged 14.9mph on the descent. Even the fastest strava time is 19.8mph!!

In 5 years time when axle standards have settled down and the pros are racing them it will be as redundant an argument as MTB wheel size. Rim brake fans can scream at the dying of the light but the market will have moved on.

Agree- whatever you think of them I reckon you're sticking your fingers in your ears if you don't think they are the future.

I usually keep my bikes for several years, and I'd personally be reluctant to spend any serious money on a rim-braked road bike now.

I didn't realise that better brakes stop people over cooking it into corners when they are racing. that will be why no ever crashes in bad weather in corners in F1 or Moto GP......

your comparing a flat moto go track with a 1 in 4 descent 😆

come on son, come on

I usually keep my bikes for several years, and I'd personally be reluctant to spend any serious money on a rim-braked road bike now.

Same here, my road bike is 5 years old and I'd like a new one. But if I can get the 2016 season done on it then I may be into the realms of discs.

Sure I can lock the wheels up now with rim brakes but I'm looking forward to having proper modulation with one finger braking on hydraulic discs.

@dirtyrider if that's your best come back you've disappointed me. Go and have a look at yourself in the mirror and have a word. 😀

also this doesn't look flat [img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

JAG - Member

I can lock the wheels of my road bike with rim brakes in all weathers.

Therefore rim brakes are powerful enough (the tyres are the limiting factor) and the only argument is if disc brakes are lighter.

What use is locking up though? I want to get as close to locking up as possible without actually locking up. That's why I'd have discs if I had the choice.

What use is locking up though? I want to get as close to locking up as possible without actually locking up. That's why I'd have discs if I had the choice.

+1

my summer road bike has 6700 Ultegra groupset and (ignoring recent carbon upgrade) Ultegra wheels. My CX bike has 4600 Tiagra groupset and cheapo Promax mechanical discs. The mechanical discs have far more feel and modulation than the Ultegra rim brakes. Ultimate power claims are redundant as most brakes can lock wheels, its being able to brake without locking them that's the point.

You'd struggle to buy a decent 26" wheeled MTB now. In a few years time you'll struggle to buy a decent rim-braked road bike, standards will have settled and weights will have dropped.

Dirtyrider just re-read your posts.

Your first post seems to imply that Alexandre Geniez would have preferred discs yesterday at the Giro.
The issue was that he didn't, not couldn't, didn't slow down enough to cleanly take the corner. His ambition very nearly outweighed his talent. After that he was descending like Brad Wiggins when he lost his nerve.

Second post states that disc modulation is better than carbon rim braking. Don't disagree. Aluminium rim braking is also better than carbon rim braking as well. I don't understand why anyone would be riding carbon in the rain unless they are being paid to do so.

You then went on to talk out of your sphincter about moto gp tracks being flat.

Since I started road racing as Juvenile some 20+ years ago brakes haven't been an 'issue' until the last few years. LBS opinion is that the complaints re braking is almost exclusively from MTB riders taking up road riding. Only people I know who have swapped were terrible descenders on rim brakes and still are on discs.

If I have still missed your point you need to learn to communicate more effectively.

soon as I see a suitable separately-purchasable disc fork appearing (for sensible money), I'll be in*

*long as it fits my current frame of course

Rim brakes are stupid*. /thread

*I may be somewhat biased.
[img] [/img]

Wasn't a fan of the road disc, only because I can't see the need. However, if I wasn't racing and only wanted one bike I'd go Giant Defy with hydros.
I still prefer rim brakes. I've bought two new race bikes for 2015 and I chose rim and canti.
I could have bought Giants with hydros at near cost, but instead bought wheels that cost more than a complete Defy with hydros and Di2. That's how much I prefer rims for racing.
Any spare cash id have that Defy.
Also IMO mechanical discs are horrid.
And I'll be very happy if we always have the choice.

Since I started road racing as Juvenile some 20+ years ago brakes haven't been an 'issue' until the last few years.

When I started riding mountain bikes some 20+ years ago, brakes weren't an issue either. We all had four finger moto levers pulling crappy cantis. Cantis got better. We had a brief, thankfully, detour via u-brakes and roller cams, then V brakes came along. By God they were good. So much better than cantis. Then we got discs, which were better still.

Of course, if you want to ride v-brakes on your MTB you can. Equally, if you want to use mid-20th century braking technology on your road bike you can.

See also skewers. MTBs used QR skewers because they were what was there from the road market. QRs are utterly pants on a mountain bike. So, lots of us have now moved to something better, as something better has been developed.

I assume you're also riding a steel bike, because, after all, frame materials aren't an "issue". Fixed wheel on a flip flop, I trust. Reductio ad absurdum...... 😉

I'm voting disc brakes.

I have one bike, ride in all weathers, and don't race.

It's all win.

When I started riding mountain bikes some 20+ years ago, brakes weren't an issue either. We all had four finger moto levers pulling crappy cantis. Cantis got better. We had a brief, thankfully, detour via u-brakes and roller cams, then V brakes came along. By God they were good. So much better than cantis. Then we got discs, which were better still.

Well, mountain biking as a sport has progressed a long way from where it was twenty years ago. Road racing is still the same as it ever was

Road racing is still the same as it ever was

Well, mountain biking as a sport has progressed a long way from where it was twenty years ago. Road racing is still the same as it ever was

Ah, OK. So carbon frames, electronic shifting, shifting on the handlebars, clipless pedals, aero, internal cable routing, frame decouplers, tubless tyres, power meters, heart rate monitors, GPS, race radio, on board camers etc. are all developments that shouldn't have happened? After all, we can't have development now can we?

Let's just keep it nice and traditional. Even if that means it's a bit shit.
[img] [/img]

( I know, I know. I've bitten a troller)

Yeah carbon bikes, Team radio, drug testing... Same as it ever was.

scaredypants - Member
Road racing is still the same as it ever was

cos of the brakes !

Do you think they'd race on gnarlier roads if the brakes were better?

Do you think they'd race on gnarlier roads if the brakes were better?

Well, it might have stopped the Schlecks from whining like pussies about having to ride downhill now and again.

Having now purchased a disk braked road bike (hydraulics) I will never go back to rim brakes again. It has nothing to do with outright power, and all to do with the ability to closer hit the maximum braking power without locking up which enables far better control and a lot more confidence when riding. I know I prefer it and see no reason to go back.

[img] [/img]

Discs have made a huge difference to mountain biking, can't argue with that. Stops starts hops jumps obstacles ruts roots rocks arse over the rear wheel descents, all made a little easier with discs. But the demands on my race bike don't compare. Now give me a disc that'll help me climb and sprint, basically go faster then you'll win me over completely.

@Tired

Giant have told me directly (I work for one of their dealers) that the 2015 Defy Advanced SL frame is their lightest ever road bike frame

they said that doing away with the caliper mounting points allowed them to completely redesign the frame from the ground up

I know my Defy Advanced Pro frame was 940 grammes (I took it all apart and weighed it), which is very impressive considering the price of my bike.

My previous Tarmac Elite SL4 caliper brake frame was over 1250 grammes in 54cm size, as a comparison

Defy is lighter than the race TCR.
Or rather the race bike is heavier than the Defy. And is so for good reason.

I've heard the issue about the limiting factor in braking being tire breakaway grip

if you run a big volume tire like the Continental GP 4000 II I've got in 28c, its an absolutely massive tire with a long contact patch, run around 80-85psi its has a level of grip I've never experienced on a road bike. It also feels extremely quick both to accelerate and when rolling

I actually increased my front disc to 160mm from the stock 140mm as I do a lot of fast/steep hill descending, I've never experienced any issues with tire grip on my disc brake bike.

Regarding modulation, the big surprise was the level of control you get from the hoods position, literally using the side of your finger you have great modulation but also huge stopping power for those moments when a car pulls out suddenly

[img] [/img]

I was looking at that Defy, that's a saucy bike and superbe value. If I gave up racing today id nip down to Camden and walk away with that or the 0 model.

QRs are utterly pants on a mountain bike. So, lots of us have now moved to something better, as something better has been developed.

I really really really need this explained to me, I've been using pants components for 28 years and don't see the problem with them.

As for road bike improvements, I'd love to see a test/evaluation of the increase in speed (for a pro let alone a leisure rider like us) a modern bike has over a 80s steel bike.

Insignificant I bet.