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I've got myself into a bit of a daft situation with my latest wheel purchase, hopefully the knowledgeable can advise if it's a mad idea before I try to explain it to the bike shop/wheelbuilder.
The bike is a 2016 Focus Cayo with a 15mm front axle
The wheelset that I'm keen to put on the Focus is a set of Roval CL50 discs which, despite their DT Swiss 350 based internals, will only go up to 12mm.
The front wheel is 21h (nightmare!) two-cross/radial - 2:1 (14 spokes disc side, 7 non disc)
So the question is, is it a totally mad idea to get this rim rebuilt onto a DT Swiss 350 straight pull front 28 hole hub (not using half the holes on the non disc side)? Is it safe to lace radially onto this hub? Would a flanged hub be better?
Thanks for any advice, I realise this is totally the wrong way of doing things!
I don't think you can choose the lacing on a straight pull hub can you? The spokes come out at the angle they do and that decides the lacing.
So the question is, is it a totally mad idea to get this rim rebuilt onto a DT Swiss 350 straight pull front 28 hole hub (not using half the holes on the non disc side)?
Yes
Yes, its mad.
You’re effectively putting the same load (your (braking) power) through 3/4 of the number of spoke holes.
Thereby increasing the load on the eyelets by 25%.
It will probably be fine for a while, but I’d guess it will shorten the life of the rim.
That’s assuming the holes line up to actually make it possible of course.
Edited, as I’ve just realised its the front wheel.
Tried to edit the above to reflect that it’s braking power only, as it’s a front wheel.
Yes, its mad.
You’re effectively putting the same load (your (braking) power) through 3/4 of the number of spoke holes.
Thereby increasing the load on the eyelets by 25%.
As I read the op, the rim is 21h already, that's the problem.
You might get away with it on a j pull hub OP but I'd be taking a careful look at the spacing of the eyelets. I don't imagine they would be anything other than regular but, I don't imagine you'd ever make a 21h rim if you were thinking normally.
Radial spoking always struck me as silly but, it's no more dangerous on your rebuild imo than the original assuming it's built well. The counter to that is if I were the shop in question I'd politely decline your business this time around.
Thanks all, sounds like a non starter, would never trust it...I was thinking a disclaimer would probably be required by the shop which is never a good starting point!
Yeah, the rim is 21h, so basically no after market hub options, especially for a 15mm axle.
I'll give Focus a try on the off chance that they have any 2017 forks (12mm and flat mount) but think it's time to retire the Cayo.
I’ll give Focus a try on the off chance that they have any 2017 forks (12mm and flat mount) but think it’s time to retire the Cayo.
Will a n other after market fork not work just fine? Qr might be an option?
Can you make or buy a sleeve to go into the forks and then use a 12mm axle?
Sell silly wheel and buy something sensible would be my preferred option. Spares availibility isn't going to get any better
Much more options for wheel building with J-bend spokes and a flanged hub. Then you could go all 14 disc side spokes leading, all 7 non-disc side trailing and other funky arrangements.
dangeourbrain - Yes, possibly after market fork if all else fails - sounds bad but it has to look 'ok', which the admittedly potentially dangerous hub solution would have.
paule - No doubt doable for someone with the knowledge but it's also got a RAT axle to make things harder and the fork "dropouts" would remain 15mm which I guess also means custom hub adaptors.
trail_rat - The only parts of the wheel not covered by the lifetime warranty are two extremely common DT Swiss bearings - theoretically you are right but as the wheels are basically Specialized and fitted to lots of bikes I have a degree of faith that parts will be around for a while. The issue going forward is that the Focus's standards, 15mm and post mount will limit it to MTB parts...which admittedly is not an issue most of the time.
Is there any chance you could swap the innards of a 15mm axle DT 350 hub with the hub you have?
As above a straight-pull hub won't let you lace radial spokes unless it's designed for radial lacing, the angle they come out at will be pretty fixed.
Also, my (admittedly limited) wheel building reading has often seen warnings that radial lacing requires hubs designed for radial lacing as the force is trying to pull the flange "apart" rather than across the flange.
I think that the spacing would also be slightly off for an asymmetric lacing pattern like that, thought that would probably be easily overcome with some slight tweaks to the tensions.
sounds bad but it has to look ‘ok’, which the admittedly potentially dangerous hub solution would have.
It's very dangerous to keep looking at a part whilst riding and thinking, "damn that's annoying, it looks pants. Oh crap car"
Toby - Unfortunately the bearing has a smaller outer diameter to a front 350 hub (and also the Focus's DT R24s hub) which means the end caps foul the hub. The bearing's internal diameter without the 12mm sleeve appears to be 15mm which means the axle physically can fit through the bearings but without the sleeve in place there's no retention of the endcaps / possibly more potential for lateral play/force on the bearings.
You say that... But if you undertake any of the above -none of it will be covered by warrenty.
I know nothing about wheels - so this may not be of any use... But I had a really old set of 240s that wouldn't _normally_ take a 15mm conversion, but this sleeve + different bearings did the trick for me:
Would that work for your 350 front hub?
trail_rat - changing the fork, which is now the most attractive option, has no bearing on the wheel's warranty.
krixmeister - thanks for digging that out - the hub I have looks too small to accept a 15mm sleeve and bearings (they would be tiny) but should the enquiry with Focus regarding the fork fall flat, I'll see if WMS can provide the bearing sizes.