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Having been tubles on my MTB I switched to tubless road set up about 18 months ago and had no issues till recently.
Rear wheel just will not seal. Wondering if my rim may be knacked or if there's something I'm missing. So far:
1) Wheel always washed, cleaned and rubbed with isopropyl. Then left to dry overnight before taping.
2) 4 different attempts at wrapping.
3) 3 different sets of valves used
4) Experimented with single wrap and double wrap.
5) 3 different type of inner valve rubber / seals used
6) Rim is Pro-Lite Revo A21W
7) Tyres I've used are Pro-ones and Pirelli Zero I think they are. Same effect with both.
Result = tyre loses 50psi minimum within an hour or two. With 2 wraps air leaked out of the valve threads so wasnt sealing there. I was also getting sealant leaking round tyre bead.
Latest attempt is muc-off tape and valves with a single wrap - starting from opposite the valve (as the video).
Latest attempt is I can hear a hiss within the rim where ever I put my ear which suggests air through spoke holes or somewhere else. But no sealant coming out anywhere. Not had chance to whip the tyre of and see if tape is not in place.
MTB is no issue and even got a set of Fatbike types that are tubless at 9PSI and have been for nearly 2 years without pumping up!!
And "tubless road doesnt work.....or just put a tube in"....tubless road DOES work! 3 other rims all hold 80PSI for a few days some there's something particular about this rim / set up that I'm cocking up! Making me think it's knacked in some way.
Any clues or ideas of things I might have missed?
I got a 28mm Pro-One to go up no problem, but 25mm just wouldn't work at all on same width rim (couldnt fit 28 on back). This using tape etc, with similar issues you have.
Finally used a spare fatty stripper from the fatbike over tape, sealed no problem. May be an idea to try?
Is the bead properly seated?
More sealant so it plugs the holes?
Rotate it slowly in a bath of water to see where the air is leaking out. If the rims are alloy, it could be the pinning on the rims.
I had a pair of faulty Pro-ones which leaked loads of air through the sidewalls. They got warrantied no-questions asked by the retailer. So worth checking them with some soapy water.
But that doesn't help explain why the Pirellis don't work either...
From what you're written above my 2 thoughts are:
A: Are you using a wide enough tape to cover the entire rim bed so the tyre seals against it directly and not againt the rim? This tends to give a better seal and prevents air escaping under the tape. With a pinned or sleeed alloy rim this is essential as otherwise air will leak through the rim join.
B: After putting the sealant in did you lay the wheel flat (like ontop of a bucket) on each side to let the sealant pool over the bead to catch any small leaks that normal riding may not seal due to the way spinning the wheel pushes sealant out towards the tread.
Tape is 21mm wide in 19mm rim so just about up to the edge.
I’ve tried soapy water round the bead and this time its definitely not that. Its leaking into the rim or via the valve i think.
But in fairness i didnt leave them flat. For a while. Will give it a try.
Not sure the bath option will get me any brownie points “dont worry dear….just giving my wheels a bath!” She’d go berserk seeing me do that!!!
Tape is 21mm wide in 19mm rim so just about up to the edge
Tape may be 2mm too narrow.
Instead of bath use a builders tub, agree with bucket trick to seal side walls, may take a few days of pumping and flipping but always seems to cure
Are you certain they are the tubeless versions?
Pro-ones come in both tube type and tubeless type as do the P-Zeros.
Consider adding between 30ml and 60ml of sealant to each wheel.
Do the tyres pop over the rim bed as you inflate them? If they don't then add another layer of tape until they do.
On the initial inflate pump to around 70-80psi. Once inflated and filled with sealant grab hold of the tyre with each hand on opposite sides of the wheel, holding the wheel horizontally with the valve closest to your body and wag it up and down two or three times, rotate the wheel so the valve moves away from you in a clockwise direction and repeat the wag, continue this process until the valve comes back round to your body. Do this to both wheels.
Tyres should stay inflated. Go for a quick ride round the block anyway to swish the sealant around some more and then leave them to see if they stay up overnight.
If the tyres deflate then submerge in a bath of water to determine where leak is. If it's the valve seal then valve isn't tight enough or the hole wasn't cut neatly enough through the tape.
If it's the tyre walls consider using a hairdryer to lightly warm up both tyre bead and the cold aluminium rim to help the bead seal. Pump up and repeat the wagging process.
Leave overnight and if they stay up reduce the pressure to whatever you prefer as 70-80psi is (too) high for tubeless tyres.
I’ve tried soapy water round the bead and this time its definitely not that. Its leaking into the rim or via the valve i think.
Have you sprayed onto the spoke nipples? I had air leaking there on mine - two wraps of fresh tape, completely filling the internal width, has fixed it.
Thanks for all that.
Tyres pop to the rim, got 70ml of sealant and definitely tubeless.
70-80 is too low for the 28’s Pirelli recommends 90psi. Min is 65 so with a normal ride and em going down so much i’ve possibly fubar’d the tyre wall by now anyway.
I normally run 30 Pro Ones at 70-80ish but going back to 28’s, at much less than 70 the tyre does bugger all to protect the rim. I can tell they’re going flat mid ride by how much metal I can hear banging on the country lanes and squirming round corners!
TBH, the 28’s are flippin awful to ride compared to 30’s.
Here in Lancs the roads dont get fixed, the council just lowers the speed limit. Pretty soon all A roads will be limited to 20mph! Get into Yorkshire and cumbria and the difference is instantly noticeable.
Bathtime it is next and face the wrath of Missis S if i shed a spec of road dirt.
From Pirelli's website:
P ZERO™ Race TLR 28-622 and P ZERO™ Race TLR 30-622 are compatible with hookless rims according to ETRTO 5bar/73psi max pressure limitations.
So 90 sounds crazy high for tubeless 28s, even if your rims aren't hookless. As suggested above, if the sidewall says 90psi, then they probably are not the tubeless version. Enjoy your bath.
Interesting. They’ve lowered that from when i bought them. Sidewall plain as day “P ZERO Tm RACE TLR”. “Pressure Min 65PSI / Max 101 psi”. And there’s a few review sites quoting data from pirelli’s website saying 90ish for 28’s at my weight.
I know everyone says tubeless road “50-60 PSI”. My rims would last a week at 50psi. Or i’d be swerving so much i’d get squashed by tractors or trucks!
Riding home from work today they dropped from about 80 to 40. I was wincing at every slight bump in the road.
What sealant are you using? I've been running 28c road tubeless for 7 years now and have always used Stans with consistently successful results. Never saw the need to try anything else although I was going to try and make some homebrew to save money. The faff stopped me though.
I also wouldn't recommend anything other than yellow Tesa tape. It's quite rigid and bonds well even with sealant flowing around it. Certainly wouldn't use duck tape not that I'm suggesting you are.
Check the tyre's seated properly checking to see if raises and lowers around the rim. I can't imagine Pirelli having poor QC but that's another factor.
When getting the tyre onto the rim try and avoid using levers if possible. They can damage the bead edging. The sealant should eventually seal any defects that are caused by levers but it's good to avoid another possible cause of air leakage when setting up for the first time.
I think turning the wheel round in the bath should reveal the problem though. You could also try a sponge in a really soapy bucket building up a nice lather such that when you wipe it round the tyre the white residue remains long enough to show where the air's leaking from, but this won't show a leaky valve hole...it'll just show leaky sidewalls or areas around the bead seal that are leaking.
That's quite a drop in pressure you had so it could be as you hit a bump air blew out from a particular area and I would imagine most likely around the valve.
If it's the sidewalls that are leaking you'll need a lot of sealant to solidify to stop those tiny air bubbles. It's the mark of a poor tubeless tyre in my opinion and would encourage me to buy an alternative.
Missis ran a bath so save me a job “shove over…need to check my wheels!” Went down well….
Valve leaking yet again. Brand new Muc-off too. Swapped the valve core and the rubber seal and seems to have sorted that side of things.
But, confused about this one. Found a tiny slit in the tread. Reusing the pirelli’s as they’ve only done 50ish miles. Air leaking from the slit but absolutely no sealant coming out (Muc-off). Never had that before. Plugged it. But even then it struggled to seal it. NEVER had that either. Dynaplug has, till now sealed everything. Left it to hopefully seal overnight.
Roll on tomorrow to see if they’re still inflated.
Normally when I change to summer tyres I'll pull out the anchovies in my winter tyres and patch up the holes with tubeless patches.
For this I use patches similar to these...
They come in different sizes so check the size first but these should be okay.
and I use this vulcanizing fluid...
If your anchovies don't work use one of those patches rather than disposing of your tyre. The vulcanizing solution needs pressure applied for a while to bond though. I use a vice but it's extremely strong when set. Squeeze the solution through the crack (making sure it's clean) and then it'll help strengthen and seal the outer face of the tyre so it'll be ready for another season.