[Closed] Road bike - tubeless or tubes?

None if you use the right tyres and the right sealant with the right rim.
I've been road tubeless for 6 years or more and sealant has always fixed holes (2). I've had success with Orangeseal and oringeseal enduro and Stans and Stans Race. Don't bother with Mucoff. The only stuff worth buying off them is cleaner and that's probably rebadged.
I've been using IRC RBCC which grip well and seemingly last for ever. There are now more good tubeless road tyres but I have not tried them. I'm in my 70's and run a bike with a triple and rim brakes (17 years old) and it is the best thing I did along with 160 mm. cranks and Swisstop Blue brake pads!

If you are a serial sidewall slasher I would not bother!

Hmmm, long time roadie here…I’ve been tubeless for years but it’s not without its problems. I’ve had a small number of flats that would not seal. It’s then a faff (and a mess) to sort out on the road.
But I’m still tubeless. I’m not fully convinced, but staying tubeless for now.
The main benefit is the comfort and smoothness of the lower pressure. I run Challenge Strada Bianchi and they’re a very good tyre.

I still prefer running tubular tyres personally, for both commuting, sporting rides and racing. Honestly the number of punctures I get riding on tubs compared to either tubes or tubeless is night and day differene. In 8000km of commuting one year I counted three punctures. Yes OK so one of those I could not fix with a tubeless sealant (I run my tubs with sealant as well) and so I had to get the train home but still, three in 8000km is pretty good going.

I'm with woodster on this.

Got a Scott Addict in June 2020, done 3000 miles on its stock Durano tyres with tubes and no punctures through 2 winters now. Genuinely can't remember my last road puncture, but I'm a chunky lad and don't ride superlight tyres

Latest road bike was meant to have tubes, but unexpectedly was delivered with a tubeless set up. 1000 winter miles so far and no problems, but as woodster says, based on my gravel bike experience, if and when there is a problem it will be a bugger to sort out.

Never tried tubeless because I've never had a problem with punctures. Takes all of 3 mins to change a tube at the road side on the very rare occasion I do puncture, and can swap tyres just as easily. It's simplier, faster, cheaper and lighter, what's not to like? Just don't ride in the gutter.

Tubeless for me. Faster rolling and lower pressures for comfort.

Tubeless for me too. Only downside I can think of is that some tyre rim combinations are almost impossible to do by the side of the road if you need to get a tube in.

Faster rolling and lower pressures for comfort

Is it?

Tubeless tyres tend to have thicker sidewalls which means more friction losses, pair a tubed tyre with a latex innertube and I doubt the rolling resistance is measurably higher than a tubeless tyre.

As for lower pressure, I run GP5000s at the same pressure (60 psi) tubed and tubeless.

I find the rim bed quite difficult on the hope wheels. Even with a tubeless blaster tank thing I struggle to get a seal sometimes. It’s been a while since I looked but I seem to remember that they have a very deep central channel which the tyre struggles to pop over. This is using gravel kings which have been fine on other wheels.

Other road rims - especially my un-drilled LB ones - are simple and easy to set up and have been trouble free. I like tubeless, particularly for pinch flat protection, as I run pretty low pressures (50psi, 28mm gp5000tl, 76kg).

In defence of the hope wheels, the RS4 hubs are amazing. Zero drag, robust, and a lovely (and un-hopey) quiet tick to the freewheel. Much better than my experience with DT 240s.

I’ve been running road tubeless since before it was really a thing (2014). I’ve had 2 punctures (that I know of) in almost 8 years and over 40k km. I’ve had two that didn’t seal. The first I fixed with superglue at work, then rode home. The second I fixed at the roadside with an anchovie. Both repairs lasted the life of the tyre and both were fixed without removing the wheel.

I (currently) run 32mm GP5000 TLs at 48/53 front to rear on 22mm ID rims at 71kg. It works for me.

I can, with effort, get the tyre bead off at the roadside with a pair of tyre levers.

I’ve just changed a tyre of the above spec after ~8000km without a puncture…it was down to the canvas.

I run tubeless on my winter bike, I still get the odd puncture that needs a anchovy, been at it 3 winters now. Jury still out. It is good but it's also much more phaff setting up and a quick tube change is easy enough with normal tyres...

Been running tubeless for six years now and am very happy with it. I ride mostly on narrow lanes which present a higher puncture risk. I've had very few problems and have never had to fix a puncture at the roadside.

Tubeless tyres tend to have thicker sidewalls which means more friction losses, pair a tubed tyre with a latex innertube and I doubt the rolling resistance is measurably higher than a tubeless tyre.

Well that'll be something that's easy to establish; someone somewhere will have the data on it! I have always assumed that tubeless would always roll quicker than anything with a tube in, perhaps even than tubulars, but I don't know that for a fact.

I do know from experience that latext inner tubes in clinchers are a bloody nightmare for punctures and very easy to damage when installing them. But this is also odd as most high quality tubulars use latext tubes, which is why they roll faster than traditional butyl/clincher set ups. It must be the construction of the tubular tyre that reduces punctures.

Faster rolling and lower pressures for comfort

Is it?

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/02/whats-faster-tubes-or-tubeless-the-answer-remains-the-same-it-depends/

Tubeless here - 2 punctures that needed a tube in 3 yrs riding - ever so slightly better than tubes which was one a year.

Tubeless does ride a bit nicer, but within then realms of “nice tyres vs ok tyres” type choices.

Overall I’m staying tubeless but wouldn’t be trying to sell it to others. Unlike then mountain bike where I’m a bit evangelical about it.

I've been tubeless for a few years, and I haven't yet had to put a tube in. I have had a few that looked like they wouldn't seal but did eventually. At the moment though I'm on 38mm tyres so the low pressure helps with that.
OTOH, I never really had a big problem with punctures with tubes. I switched because I upgraded my Aksiums to a pair of Kysrium UST that cam with a pair of 25mm tubeless tyres and I thought I'd give a it a go. There was a big increase in ride quality, but of course there are a few factors in that, and I'd probably been running higher pressures than I needed to with tubes.
I'm sold on it though and I don't see me going back to tubes.

Hmmm, long time roadie here…I’ve been tubeless for years but it’s not without its problems. I’ve had a small number of flats that would not seal. It’s then a faff (and a mess) to sort out on the road.
But I’m still tubeless. I’m not fully convinced, but staying tubeless for now.
The main benefit is the comfort and smoothness of the lower pressure. I run Challenge Strada Bianchi and they’re a very good tyre.

Out of interest, what proportion of your flats have been on the front Vs the rear?

I have a pet theory that tubeless on the front is less likely to pick up a cut (weight distribution tending to be more rearward) and that the comfort and ride benefits of TL on the front trade-off proportionately; run something slightly tougher and tubed on the rear where a flat is fixed with fresh tube and an unsealable cut from flint or glass is more likely as more rider weight goes through that tyre...

Tubeless tyres tend to have thicker sidewalls which means more friction losses, pair a tubed tyre with a latex innertube and I doubt the rolling resistance is measurably higher than a tubeless tyre.

Hysteresis, there is friction in all the materials being deformed at the tyre's contact patch, there might be a thicker wall in a TL tyre, but once you add a tube to any tyre that becomes part of the system and also subject to deformation and friction, so probably about equivalent. Good old talc betwixt tyre and tube might help with reducing that but all the materials in a single laminate is probably going to behave better, and an increased internal volume (relative to the exterior) means the pressure can be run proportionately lower. Same loads over a larger volume of air, thus those minor deflections you need to achieve a smoother ride over imperfect surfaces are easier to achieve, latex tubes are generally thinner and more ductile than butyl, but also more delicate, arguably not the best use of the material Vs a sealant?

It's all marginal gains territory, but then isn't that the point?

I have a pet theory that tubeless on the front is less likely to pick up a cut

Wasn’t my experience with Schwalbe Ones, where a front cut didn’t seal and I had to put a tube in. By contrast the Corsa Speeds tended to fail at the rear when they went and again a tube was needed in a 900mm rim. But no sane person would run those here. My god they were fast!!! But the time needed to put a tube in if one failed would lose all the gains. And that’s on a 12hr TT 😂

I wouldn't run 55psi (at nearly 90kg) in 28s with a tube. The fact I am more confident going lower also reduces RR on rough roads which is most of them.

For the record I've had this bike with road tubeless on for 14 months and I've had two punctures that I know about. One one the front sealed straight away, the other on the back sealed and then re-opened several times, making me think it was more punctures but it wasn't. Happened a couple of times on a ride then I remembered I had anchovies which got me home, and I patched it on the inside with a normal puncture kit. It was fine; the tyre is nearly worn out now.

What are the reasons not to?

If you get next to no punctures running tubes then I wouldn't bother.
If you get quite a few punctures running tubes then I would bother as worth the hassle.

For me … it depends. Riding higher volume tyres 32C and above at 40-50psi then it’s a yes for me but below 30c it’s a no. In our road riding group the only riders that I’ve seen have to make the call home to be picked up are tubeless riders. I saw 3 last year. 28c /25c tyres, cuts that wouldn’t seal with a plug (usually in the pissing rain) and people unable to get the tyres off / no tube. I see that tubeless has its place but it’s MTB/gravel for me.

I’ve been on tubeless for about 15k miles. As said previously, the combination of rim tyre, rim, and sealant is critical. Started on roval wheels and if the tyre lost pressure the bead would drop of the rim, now on mavic which are excellent and don’t need taping which gets rid of another problem. Sealant is stans race at set up and then top up with stans regular when needed. Tried Hutchinson and Goodyear but settled on 5000s which are excelllent. Used anchovies 3 times with no problems and they have stayed in for the life of the tyre. I think 28 mm is the minimum, tried hutchinson 25s in the beginning without much joy. Also use crank brothers speedier tyre lever which is really good and ride with co2 just in case tyre needs to be reseated on the ride, but never used it. Wouldn’t go back, lower pressures, puncture resistance, fast tyres.

People make mistakes with road tubeless. My mate did it then put 120psi in his (30c!) tyres like he always did and then got all complainey when they didn't seal.

If you get next to no punctures running tubes then I wouldn’t bother.
If you get quite a few punctures running tubes then I would bother as worth the hassle.

I'd agree with this.

I've gone tubeless on 28mm tyres and it feels brilliant and has shrugged off what would have been a guaranteed double flat with tubes (hitting a chunky square edged pothole at full speed), but I'll always have that anxiety of getting a flat and having a 'mare trying to change to a tube.

This thread has reminded me to refresh my sealant.

Mixed success on mine. 28c Schwalbe Pro One on Prime tubeless rims.
Not sure if its the tyres or bad luck or what but on both occasions I've put new tyres on, the rear has ended up with cuts in it very quickly and within a few hundred miles I've ended up having to put a tube in it. The front works with no problems at all.

Last time, the sealant fixed the rear puncture and I pumped it up but it had obviously lost enough sealant to only partially work. A day or so later I put a worm into it and then 2 days after that it just deflated on a fast descent - thankfully the tyre stayed on the rim and I could bring it to a controlled stop.

It's had a tube in it ever since.

I suspect 28c is about the smallest tyre size that tubeless will realistically and reliably do. I will give it another go next time I put new tyres on, maybe as @claudie suggests with some of the thicker Stans Race at set up and the regular Stans after that.

I use Stan's race sealant too btw, I was advised to.

I tried tubeless on road but have gone back to tubes, just find it so much easier. I only get a couple of punctures a year and I know I can just quickly change at the roadside anytime. I really just like things as simple as possible on the road bike.

Mixed success on mine. 28c Schwalbe Pro One on Prime tubeless rims.

That's my set-up too.

Worried now 😀

IRC RBCC which grip well and seemingly last for ever

Excellent tyres, mine also lasted ages, actually on GP5000S TL just now but will probably pick up another pair of the IRC for next winter...

This is a brilliant thread as there are so many variables and so many little gems to consider. For example, using CO2 to pop the bead - hadn't ever thought of that. Doh.

I've had the misfortune of two recent punctures on the road bike, both pot-hole related, and both resulting in snakebites. But for all that, a quick change roadside was no biggie.

I'm running a maximum of 25mm tyres on my bike, and have non-TLC wheels, so having read this I'm not inclined to ever make the change now.

On all my MTBs I do run tubeless, and have ridden throughout this winter without a problem. That was until last Tuesday, where the front tyre came off the rim on a descent. Thankfully I had a tube with me, but it was a messy faff to fit trailside.

All told though, I reckon it was well worth all those months of puncture free riding at low pressure through thorny fields and trails this winter.

So TL on the MTB and tubes on the road for me.

Tubes for road, just don't get enough punctures to consider tubeless. Even commuting, that was just a choice of Schwalbe Durano Plus which stopped glass.

Slightly off-topic but I punctured a few weeks ago and opened the tool bottle I'd been carrying around on the bike with my multiool and tubes in to discover... it was completely empty.

Literally been carrying around an empty tool bottle since the day I bought it about 10 months ago.

I ride them for lower pressure and comfort, puncture protection is an added benefit

Well that’ll be something that’s easy to establish; someone somewhere will have the data on it! I have always assumed that tubeless would always roll quicker than anything with a tube in, perhaps even than tubulars, but I don’t know that for a fact.

GP5000 is marginally faster with a latex tube than tubeless:

Aerocoach

Spec Turbo Cotton (clincher) is faster still, and is probably the lightest tyre I would use for general summer riding. So I would say that the fastest wheel tyre combo for general use would be the Turbo Cotton clincher on some Roval Rapide CLX wheels, which incidentally are not tubeless compatible.

Went tubeless at the weekend on my road wheels - but I am running big ol' 38c gravelkings. I took off my 28mm Vitoria's to give it a go with a bit more comfort as I've a 4day road ride later in the year. Front went on and up no probs, rear took a few goes, even then it went down again over night and I had to redo the whole thing on Sunday am which was a ball ache.

Anyway bigger tyre/lower pressure so yes slower and marginally more comfortable. Prob lost any aero advantages on 50mm deep rims, but I'll keep them on for now. Unsure if I'd go back to 28c and tubes for a while as I've always been pro comfort rather than out and out speed.

This is a brilliant thread as there are so many variables and so many little gems to consider. For example, using CO2 to pop the bead – hadn’t ever thought of that. Doh.

Check the sealant if you're doing that. Some really don't like CO2. Not sure if the rapid inflation freezes the sealant and makes it useless or if it's some kind of chemical thing - check the sealant pack, some specifically say "do not use with CO2".

I took off my 28mm Vitoria’s to give it a go with a bit more comfort

Pff, you want an armchair to go with those giant tyres? Pipe and slippers?

If using CO2 do it before adding the sealant, so pop them onto the bead then remove the valve...add sealant, refit the valve and inflate normally.

GP5000 is marginally faster with a latex tube than tubeless:

My first choice now for nice riding. Latex tubes can be hard work, but the ride improvement is noticeable. Nothing has been faster than my Corsa Speeds on HED Jet 6/9 though. Circuit races only after a few failures. Expensive failures.

I saw 3 last year. 28c /25c tyres, cuts that wouldn’t seal with a plug (usually in the pissing rain)

Wet roads can be a problem with getting the sealant to hold as it gets older. I'm more careful about checking and replacing sealant to ensure that it will do its job in the wet. Also as the tyre wears out the thinner rubber causes the sealant to flex out more easily.

Mixed success on mine. 28c Schwalbe Pro One on Prime tubeless rims.
Not sure if its the tyres or bad luck or what but on both occasions I’ve put new tyres on, the rear has ended up with cuts in it very quickly and within a few hundred miles I’ve ended up having to put a tube in it. The front works with no problems at all.

I found Pro Ones to be way too fragile for the riding I do. I've been very happy with Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance - I can fit them without tyre levers and they inflate with just a track pump. I get the odd puncture but they seems far more resistant to cuts than the Pro Ones, and they have far better wet grip.

I've got Pro Ones. Highly impressed with the ride but I've not got many other 28c tyres to compare with. However the rear is fairly flat now with a couple of thousand K on it.

I’ve just replaced my 32mm GP5000TL on my commuter. ~8500km and down to the canvas in a couple of places - still no punctures. 🙂

Definitely got my money out of that tyre.

I always puncture on Pro Ones…Conti 5000 TL have been great as were the IRC mentioned earlier.

Just put some 5000 TR on the summer bike, tight as

I found Pro Ones to be way too fragile for the riding I do

Original or updated versions?

I have the newer ones and they seem fine so far, I know the originals had a rep for being fragile.

Original or updated versions?

Original. Final straw was a large bulge appearing in the carcass. I binned them and fitted the Hutchinsons.

Both for me...gave them another go since everyone insisted the newer ones were much improved, but same old.

Similar to Haze. I’ve used both versions of the Pro Ones and wasn’t impressed. I also found the wet grip wasn’t ideal.
The newer version lasted about 2 months before I binned them off and went back to my Challenge tyres.
The GP5000s were always a worry that if I was to ever need to put an emergency tube in them, there was noway I could do that out on the road. Incredibly difficult to get seated on the rim.

I've been tubeless on my road bike for 2 years now ever since I got my new mavic carbons.
I think the way to look at it is...go for the best tyre with puncture proof propertys..im not fussed about weight ( I mean we ain't pros once you add up your water and tool kit a few extra grams on tyres won't make much difference)
Now since 2 years ago I must have had about 5 punctures 4 rear 1 front...did I notice? no...it was only the white squiggles on the frame that gave it away.
So yeah i think tubeless is great.

On the flipside my last tyres with a tube were veredistine xtreme senso 3 years without a single puncture
Why did I change...well the new wheel came with a tubless tyre and I couldn't find a veredistine tyre 28mm, so I join the tubeless gang

A mate had to be rescued today on her road bike when she couldn't repair a puncture. My LBS owner personally will not ride with them as he hates them. MTB and Gravel bikes all good, but not on road bikes. My new racer this year I put top end Roval's on. Tube only.

Spot on - I inflate without sealant.

Then after the bead pops, let it down and inject sealant.

Never had a prob. Still use clinchers on another bike and had no problem with a tube.

Lots of mention of lower pressures. I have 28c GP5000’s tubeless on carbon Rovals on my Creo SL. I weigh about 78 kg. I ride them at about 65 front/70 rear, maybe too high ?

I had a puncture on my commuter at the office the other day. Running tubeless, wouldn't seal.

I used superglue from the stationery cupboard. Sealed straight away, no messing around with anchovies.

I don't know how long it will last.

I think it all come down to the sealant...I only use stan's....with stan's darts for larger ( hopefully never needed) holes

iainc
Full Member

Lots of mention of lower pressures. I have 28c GP5000’s tubeless on carbon Rovals on my Creo SL. I weigh about 78 kg. I ride them at about 65 front/70 rear, maybe too high ?

Posted 13 hours ago
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Thoughts ?

28c GP5000’s tubeless on carbon Rovals on my Creo SL. I weigh about 78 kg. I ride them at about 65 front/70 rear, maybe too high ?

Joking aside, how heavy is the Creo?

But yeah, I'm 88kg right now (😭😭) and run 80psi in 25mm (27 measured) cheapo winter tyres with latex tubes. So you should be able to get away with a good bit lower being lighter, wider tyres, tubeless.

Thanks, it’s quite light, considering….. about 23 pounds

Then after the bead pops, let it down and inject sealant.

Yup. I remove the valve core and pump like a teenager to pop the bead. Then deflate and inject Stans sealant with a syringe. Refit the valve core and inflate.

Lots of mention of lower pressures. I have 28c GP5000’s tubeless on carbon Rovals on my Creo SL. I weigh about 78 kg. I ride them at about 65 front/70 rear, maybe too high ?

I’d say a bit too much IMO. I’m about 90kg these days and I use 60f/65r on my 28mm tubeless rapidairs on Lightbicycle WR35’s, although they’re probably a touch wider than the Rovals.