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I now have a shortlist!
Burls custom Ti
Enigma Elite or Extensor (stainless)
Condor steel Accaido or super or stainless or even Ti Gran Fondo
Genesis Volare 20 or even 953 team
Singular Peregine
Surly Racer
Possibly last two are more utility choices?
No carbon there however Condor do a sweet Gran Fondo carbon frame.
I am in the south east so left out Roukes, Shand and Statley
Steel more budget, Ti more traditional and Stainless steel possibly too much strain on the £3k budget?
Last point, how much should I add to the frame and fork price for a total build? Not looking for expensive wheels or group set but need to do the frame justice!
Me personally ? I'd get the best frame possible and not worry too much about the parts (not yet anyway). So I'd go with 953 and try and bag a bargain for decent 2nd hand parts.
For example, check this auction that ended earlier this evening:
Most of the parts from that bike would do nicely on a top-end new frameset, and you could have then probably got £150 selling the frame.
That's just my idea anyhow....
Yes those 953s are very unusual and excellent. Even more expensive than Ti
Planet X Ti Pro Road... for 1.5k
1.5k still in the bank... to [s]spend on cr@p, upgrades or[/s] save
yes it might lack the exclusivity of the other options.. but the others aren't necessary better in a linear fashion for the extra £s required
I'd go for the Enigma from your list. The Condor would be a consideration only if the geometry suited - it doesn't for me.
The Enigma stainless would likely be Columbus XCR as they do like the brand. I'm sure you could spec 953 if you want, that's the beauty of custom. I've no idea which is better, but I ride Columbus Life on my hardtail and it feels way nicer than my other 853 bike. I would most likely go for the custom Elite made from Columbus Spirit, fillet brazed.
Nice dilemma you have! 🙂
Pegoretti Duende and cheap groupset from Mosquito Bikes would also be on my list. If you want something a little exotic.
On your list, I'd go for the Condor Stainless. I have a Genesis bike and, whilst I like it a lot, it is not, and never will be a Peg - Blue lipstick notwithstanding 😉
I have two Enigma Ti bikes and can't fault them.
However a nice, Steel Elite with Campag Record from Ribble (£1100), with some nice Mavics and topped off with good finishing kit (Easton/Deda etc) should keep you under £3K (Just)
BTW Enigma have some very good value Ti Equinox Frames in @ £900.
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How about a roberts (might be a bit over budget ) or a Colnago master;
[url= http://www.totalcycling.com/en/Colnago-Master-X-Light-Saronni---PR82/m-17165.aspx?gclid=CK7nzof5_rwCFaQfwwodXq0AQA&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=UnitedKingdom ]Master X-Light[/url]
beautiful frames, hold their value and far nicer than any condor imho, you can always upgrade the components later
buy the frame you like most, sod the components, 105/Veloce work fine. and get reasonable wheels.
I don't know how they ride but from that list the Engima Elite is the one i would investigate, and get a custom paint job.
My money this.
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totally contradicting what I said earlier and probably not what you want either 😛
salsa colossal ti
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I've got an old Colnago Master circa 1995. It is a lovely thing, a wee bit heavy and classic square (top tube same length as seat tube) which isn't ideal for me, but as a classic it's fun to own and ride.
Extensor for me (although get them to sort the headtube length out - custom Enigmas always seem to have enormous stacks of spacers, which is just ugly).
There's a review of the Super Acciaio in "Cyclist" mag this month, which suggests it rides a bit on the really quite solid side, which might not be ideal for long days out.
Ultegra 6800 group, DA C24 wheels, jobs a goodun.
Sabbath Monday child or September?
Kinesis ti gran fondo?
These are on my similar short list.
Another £1500 on wheels, group set and finishing kit I reckon.
Puzzled by the odd poor comments on the Condor? I think they on an equal with Enigma no?
I do love the look of the Super Acciaio and Acciaio.
London exchange cycles have a second hand Colnago which looks sweet....
The Enigma Ti range is puzzling...so many variants?mabout 8 I think?
The salsa for me , yes its a lot for an off the peg and it's not English
But I still want it.
Oh well best carry on saving
Aw, just for the record, if you don't mind me asking.
How old are you?
.
I've got a fantastic Surly Pacer in Sparkleboogie blue, but if I had the money I would have bought an Enigma....
Puzzled by the odd poor comments on the Condor? I think they on an equal with Enigma no?
Don't get me wrong, I think the Super Acciaio is a fantastic looking bike, but it's been built to be a pure race bike, and it seems like they've got the stiffness/comfort bias pretty heavily towards the stiffness end.
A 'stiff' steel frame made from oversize tubing is still not going to give you a bone shaking ride. Done plenty of long days in the saddle plus roubaix and Flanders pave on my pegoretti Duende with no problem. Would pick big bore spirit tubes over stovepipe any day.
Enigma or condor if the geo/sizing suits the others are a bit boring and don't really tick the pride of ownership/exclusivity box for me
aw - MemberPuzzled by the odd poor comments on the Condor?
IMHO you're paying a hefty cut for a name, thier lavoro track frame for example) and not that prestigious a one anyway to qoute MrSmith "...don't really tick the pride of ownership/exclusivity box for me." Just my opinion though.
Do u race?
Have u been fitted?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/de-rosa-neo-primato-frame-and-fork-2014/
I have one of these with full Ultegra, 3T bits and Stan's wheels. Total cost would be about £2500 and it's a beautiful bike to ride. It doesn't ride anything like a modern carbon bike, it's not sharp and stiff, but it's 17lbs and a significant improvement on older steel frames. It's just lovely to ride.
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rourke?
Seems a bit of fuzzy thinking going on, so:
1st up what's the bike for?
2nd up what is your preferred geometry compact, all square etc.
3rd what is your budget?
NB: Reynolds 953 is barely stainless steel.
Original Op here...
to answer some questions...
How old - 50 on the 25th of this month
Budget - £3k give or take.
Riding - mainly longer sportive type rides I guess.
Do I race - no and do not attend to.
Roukes? - but I live in the south east so...
Ritchey Road Logic, there's a shop selling them for less than £800 with forks and headset at the moment. You could have a lovely bike for £3k
The SE? Wouldn't a pedallo be more useful..? Although that might reduce the choice of frame materials a bit.
Original Op here...to answer some questions...
How old - 50 on the 25th of this month
Budget - £3k give or take.
Riding - mainly longer sportive type rides I guess.
Do I race - no and do not attend to.
Roukes? - but I live in the south east so...
...So get in here
[img] https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSLpYtvEByeGMgypj9E8-sKHZbubjiPXxYOlE6Wy8LyAGGEWiof_lg-gRe5Q9M [/img]
and have a chat!
Roukes? - but I live in the south east so...
So do I and a Rourke would be top of my list for a performance-biased road bike, it's not that far really. Used to live in that area and bought my first proper MTB from Brian. A really good guy and I think his frames are good value for the skill and experience in them. But a lot of this is about buying from someone you want to work with, as for most of us there are great off-the-peg bikes too.
ie a Neo Primato .. pricey but there's something very nice about that bike.
953 has a big premium over 853 and if you aren't riding through winters on the bike, 853 is very good choice.
What frame size? Larger Ti frames can be flexy.
I think the Enigma is still looking tops for your requirements op. In steel of course 😉
I do own one (mtb) and have spent some time there, both as a customer and on business. I think they're pretty transparent with things, and work is pretty good. I'm sure there are better but you may have to go to USA for that.
For what it's worth I had some real problems with the Croydon builder mentioned, when I ordered a custom mtb recently - had to abort the order things got so bad. I accept that road are more their thing but the experience I wouldn't want anyone to go through. Having been a customer I could not recommend them.
I wouldn't ride a 953 through the winter as salt and low grade stainless steels don't mix.
TBH it's so hard to see what you get from steel and Ti now that there are so many quality carbon options out there, you could get a Colnago for £3k.
Talk about steel and winter riding is a red herring - I use a 20 year old 531c for winter duties and there isn't a speck of rust on it. Ditto my old Tange steel mtb I use for daily commuting.
pinetree - very pretty, so I raise you this:
http://starleybikes.com/bikes/road-bikes/jks-ss/
🙂
tbh - in the OP's position, I'd get a booking in somewhere like Rourke regardless of the drive to get there. Get a fitting and some proper advice.
In fact - that's what I'm doing when I turn 50. Decided now.
I;ve got an Enigma Etape Ti & a Columbus Spirit Burls, they are both excellent quality & finish. If i had to choose one of them, i'd have a rally hard job, the enigma is really the winter bike and the Burls for sunny days but they are both excellent and i'd have no problem dealing again with either of them.
You could get this:
..with full Dura Ace and decent finishing kit and wheels for around £3k. Not the name you want but meets your needs.
Well more confused than ever!
I am talking to a frame builder about a Ti frame at present ...Burls?
I think TBH Stainless steel or 953 is a little out my price range in any case...by the time I get all the bits on it would be well over £3k.
The reason I am not going carbon is that they all look pretty much similar and generic, I wanted something unusual and interesting 🙂
It appears that you have left out Rourkes because you are in the SE. It's only a day out for for the fit which is a good experience anyway, especially if Brian is about.
Any opportunity to show mine off
[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3813/11796369825_d5a2d71c23_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= 
[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/rjohnson76/ ]Cheers Drive[/url], on Flickr
Justin Burls made me a Ti bespoke 29er and I couldnt be happier with the bike or with dealing with Justin. Tremendous value too.
In the south-east why dont you go and see Jean Claude Pretorius in Shoreditch? Its worth the trip just to see the shop, it's the ultimate man-cave and he makes lovely Ti bikes right in your price range. Not sure this build would come in under 3k though...
http://www.pretoriusbikes.com/Pretorius_Bikes/Coffee_Bar.html
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Cheers_drive - your Rourke is a beaut.
As is that other steel Italian listed a bit earlier.
Am I right in saying that Burls just design in the UK and all frames are outsourced abroad? If that doesn't bother you then fine, just thought I should mention it.
Okay, Ive got this all consuming head cold at the moment, 3 weeks and counting and it is affecting my cerebral processes somewhat, but I'm getting a deja vu on this… 😕
Great threads though, very informative, even though I have no intention of getting a road bike in the foreseeable but some of the suggestions are beautiful.
Seems I'm so well informed, I'd say Enigma or Sabbath. 😀
I have an Engima eclipse with dura ace group set and Fulcrum 3 wheels.
Is a very comfy ride but still nice and stiff for out of the saddle sprinting. Frame has a lovely finish, nice sloped top tube and good range of sizing. Also has built into a good weight, just a smidge over 18lbs.
Engima are a really friendly bunch to deal with, went in recently for a new carbon seat post and got FOC head tube badge (not out when I bought my frame) & some decals from the boss.
To answer the question about group set and wheels.
Don't scrimp, a lot of the advice is spend the money on the frame and just stick on 105 standard kit but if I were you I would push for that little bit more minimum ultegra.
I build up a really nice Scott addict last year and put on 105, sure it shifts fine but I constantly find myself looking longingly at ultegra or even da kit. It sounds like this will be the special bike you pull out the shed on sunny days which is what my addict is but I do sometimes look at it and think the 105 looks a bit cheap and wish I had spend the little extra at the time instead of having to fork out for a complete new group set now when my heart finally convinces my head that there is something not quite right.
Still love taking it out for a treat after spending all week on my nasty commuter though.
This thread is doing nothing to help with my Ti itch 🙁
OP, if you're a size 58 I know where there is an as new condition Moda Motif with full new SRAM Red 10 speed with mavic r-sys wheels for £2500. A better value ti bike would be hard to find. Lovely frame. Trying hard to resist myself.
Bob Jackson? I love mine
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While we are on about this sort of stuff, can somebody tell me is it only weight that differentiates between Campag Record and Super Record?
oh and price of course 🙄
I love the Starley, Rourke etc but when there is excellent alternatives in the south east such as Enigma, condor, Burls, Pretorius, etc why spend a day traveling up north. I appreciate people's own positive experience with these suppliers and thanks for comments 🙂
I going to bottom this out one way or the other on Monday. Traveling back to London probably to buy a bike from Condor which maybe either Super Accadaio or Ti Gran Fondo. I cannot quite run to stainless steel model although it is sweet! Other potential ways to go are a visit to Bespoke and/or Pretorius.
also a couple of Colganago's on the london bike exchange, one a classic Ti the other a C50 going for less than £2k. might look those up 🙂
The Van Nic Aquila? Looks brill...nearest stockist in the south east?
Boi tell me about the Modi? I have a 58 and 56 so I may be OK for a 58 although only 5' 10''
Talk about steel and winter riding is a red herring
I've got a year old Croix de Fer which is rusting all over the place. I've owned a few steel frames over the years, in various different grades, and they have all rusted, one terminally!
I had a Ti frame for the work bike before the Croix (which broke after about 9 years of service). I think Ti or Alu would be my preference for a commuter that is going to see all year commuting service. Rust proof and a bit more resistant to normal wear and tear than carbon.
Aw, drop me an email and I'll put you in touch with the LBS.
Aha, I had a feeling it was a landmark birthday prezzie to yourself.
In which case a custom frame is a serious contender.
If it was me I would get the titanium Kinesis Gran Fondo frame and fork@
£1500.
Group set Campy Record -£1300
Wheels Campy Zonda - £250
If you shop around the frame and fork can be had for far less than £1500,leaving money for tires,stem, saddle and seat post .
If you can pick up this months copy of Cyclist, there is a reveiw of the Super Acciaio. Some snippets include 'Aggressive geometry''Incredibly beefy downtube'''not as a comfortable all day companion but a thoroughbred race steed' etc etc.
What about popping into Kinoko cycles (I've no idea how practical this is if your going to Condor) but they have a rather lovely selection of steel bikes it seems(again not sure what would be on display/stock). To add to some of the fantastic recommendations then I'd at least have a look at a Cherubim or a Cielo at Kinoko.
Kinoko is only about 10 mins away I believe so I could pop along thanks...
I will try to get a copy of the cyclist to read the article...