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It's not often I do a "what bike" thread, but I'm looking at moving to a disc brake road bike and would value hearing what some of you think.
For the last few years I've mainly been riding a 2012 Scott CR1 SL - built with 6800 Ultegra, RS81s and carbon bits. It is light, responsive, quick and I love the handling.
The CR1 was supposed to be an endurance bike, but the geo is fairly racey and it's made from the top-level HMX carbon layup. When I swapped to a 2014 Defy Advanced for a year or two I found it a bit too relaxed and soft for my taste.
Maybe it's the recent storms, or my old age, but it's been feeling bumpier lately and I fancy going to bigger tyres than my 25mm ones and discs of course.
My budget is roughly £1k to £2k, or slightly higher, and I have a few options so far...
Cannondale Synapse
Some great deals about on 2019 models new. Frame coming to end of it's life in 2020 though and will it feel sporty enough for me?
Giant Defy Advanced Pro - previous generation secondhand
These were v popular and are fairly priced used. Supposed to be considerably stiffer than the one I had, as well as higher lever carbon. And clearance for 28s. May not handle as lively as I'd like though?
Cannondale Supersix 2020
This would be stretching the budget, but I do like the look of them, the Ultegra carbon one is well specced and reviews suggest it'd be right up my strasse.
Any thoughts on the above from owners? Particularly in relation to how I've described my tastes? Any other options I've missed? Particularly secondhand ones?
Must be carbon and take fairly big tyres BTW.
TIA
Discs or calliper brakes?
I bought a Cube Agree with callipers 4 years ago but I think if I was buying a new road bike now I'd be looking at discs.
I did mention discs twice.
😛
I ride a 2018 Specialized Roubaix, disc brakes, clearance for up to 32mm tyres-clearance is actually 34mm but it’s a bit tight. Light and responsive but relatively relaxed geometry. You could probably find a S/H version within your budget. I love mine.
Cannondale Supersix 2020
You can get disc Ultegra SuperSix for that budget? Wow...
It's quite a stretch but I've seen a deal or two.
The only thing about the new supersix is it's all designed to be integrated so the slightly cheaper models without the fancy bar and stem just seem a bit under thought and look a bit odd.
The only thing about the new supersix is it’s all designed to be integrated so the slightly cheaper models without the fancy bar and stem just seem a bit under thought and look a bit odd.
Even if one doesn't know that's the case?
Looks fine to my untrained eyes, very handsome in fact...
Just bought a Giant TCR Advanced Pro and swapped the 25mm tubeless tyres for 28s. Very much a race bike but very comfy with the bigger tyres. There are some great deals on the 2019 models. I went di2 but you can get mechanical groupsets & hydraulic discs for around your budget. Can’t imagine I’d want bigger than 28s for purely road use.
The TCR Pro disc was on my wish list a while ago, looks spot on for me, but the 2019 models are sold out and the prices have shot up for 2020.
As I inferred in the OP, I'm after as high quality carbon as I can get and wasn't over-impressed with the "Advanced" model I had before.
I just got a Radon Spire (last year model) and it is absolutely lovely. Comes with 28s, lovely kit throughout, full Ultegra. Would buy again.
I ride a 2018 Specialized Roubaix
Whilst initially sceptical of the future shock, compared to my ‘16 ‘zertz’ frame Roubaix the new ones are so much smoother.
Evans were selling the Sport for a thousand quid off list last November, I know, my neighbour bought one. Lucky sod.
Trek Domane?
I really like Trek road frames
Don’t the supersix frames have weird spacing on the rear? Something to do with having to redish normal wheels?
This looks an awesome deal if it's your size.
I did see that one.
Was hoping someone has anyone ridden the Synapse and could comment.
Reviews mostly very positive and it sounds like it'd suit me, but I've noticed that most sportive bike reviews say the bike under review is more lively than average (which obviously they all can't be).
I'm not really a fan of Treks, maybe they just look too much like Treks? I wasn't really keen on Cannondales either until I discovered they'd dropped their horizontal TT thing.
'Dale and Giant do seem to be better VFM than Trek & Spesh, eh? And Canyon seem to have crept up in price a fair bit.
Couple of discounted Merida Sculturas on Tredz that look good to me. Full Ultegra at under £2k
I work part time in a Specialized dealer assembling all manner of their bikes. The guy who owns the shop usually has a couple of top end S-Works models on the go - he likes them light and stiff. We built up an S-Works Roubaix as he was initially sceptical - he took it to Majorca for a week and said it was just as fast as his S-Works Venge, but a whole lot more comfortable. I wouldn't buy a Trek because they're warranty support isn't as good.
I think. Cannondale have made a bit of a mistake with the Supersix, was a great racebike, one of the best all rounders I’ve ridden (Dura Ace Hi Mod). Super light and handled like a dream. The new one is a lot heavier, where the standard Supersix was approx 7.4kgs you need to get a top of the range 2020 model to get close to that weight.
Have also ridden the Synapse, I found it absolutely fine. The one I had was Ultegra and standard carbon (hire bike in Girona). It wasn’t exciting to look at but it rode fine. I’m a bit of a fan of Cannondales having ridden lots of them over the years.
My winter bike I have is a Domane SL5, it’s Uber comfortable but dull to ride (my other bike is a Canyon Aeroad which is a gr eat ride so probably not fair to compare the two). 32mm tyres are nice for the winter but for most rides I prefer to have my 23 front and 25 rear.
With your budget I’d be looking at different frame options including Alu and Steel. I’ve had a few CAAD’s and they are great bikes, in fact I’d rank my old CAAD 10 up there with some of the more expensive bikes I’ve had. We’re all different and have different views on bikes, but in my opinion I’d not bother with a £2k carbon disc brake bike, unless you can get it significantly reduced from RRP.
Not much help I’m afraid, just think it’s worth rethinking your target regarding the highest level of carbon you can buy.
unless you can get it significantly reduced from RRP.
That is absolutely the plan, or used.
What do we think of the quality of Cannondale's "Ballistec" carbon frames?
I'm assuming it's better than some other brands which have more grades of carbon, e.g. Giant Advanced.
Also, I see road bikes are moving towards mildly aero tube shapes, like the new Supersix.
Most of my riding is reasonably hilly with the odd flat bit in between, I'm lucky to average 25km/h.
Is that (and mid-depth rims) somethign that's kind-of worth having anyway?
I think current concensus is that aero matters until the gradient is ~8%+, plus how fast you are travelling above ~15mph.
I'm curious, @chakaping, how wide do you want to go in terms of tyres? My understanding is that once you exceed 28, any gains made by the extra width start to diminish with drag. And if you limit yourself to, say, a 28 maximum width, then you can probably consider any modern bike with discs.
But then, if you can get your hands on that Cannondale you have pictured above, why not just do that? It's lovely!
I think current concensus is that aero matters until the gradient is ~8%+, plus how fast you are travelling above ~15mph.
I'm almost always riding solo, roughly 20mph on the flat.
But then, if you can get your hands on that Cannondale you have pictured above, why not just do that?
I think I am leaning that way, but some alternative options are less than half the price (used obvs)... so I'm trying to think it through thoroughly.
bb30 always put me of the carbon Dale's. Have they moved on from that?
I bought a 2020 105 disc supersix last year. Loved the bike but it had a problem with the seatpost, something which I've been told by a couple of shops is a common problem. They tried replacing the alloy post with a carbon one but it had the same problem.
Ended up getting a specialized Tarmac as a replacement and like the equally as much.
My thread on it is here if you want a read.
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/cannondale-road-bike-creaking-seatpost/
Just to throw a spanner in the works... Have you considered the modern Scott range?
My GF has an Addict Disc, must say it’s an impressive bit of kit for the money. If I was in the market for a carbon disc bike right now, the Addict or possibly a Foil disc would be at the top of my list on the budget you mention.
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/road-bikes/cannondale-synapse-carbon-disc-dura-ace-review/
Review of that 'Dale.
I’ve got a Caad12 105 disc and love it pretty much - other than the 105 mechanical gears (non-series hydraulic levers). Running 25c GP4000’s I find it the comfiest road bike I’ve had to date. Running Hunt 4seasons road wheels and it’s about to get Ultegra Di2 to replace the 105.
Comfier than the caad9 / Giant OCR / Boardman Team Carbon I’ve had previously. The frame is a tiny bit heavier than the equivalent Supersix but I don’t think there was a huge amount in it.
Seriously like the look of the Caad13 disc and would add that to the list.
When I was looking I considered the Carbon Synapse disc as they were available at about the same price - but they were a chunk heavier and the handling of the Caad12 is more fun.
The weak point of the spec on most Cannondale’s are the wheels though - I part ex’d the standard wheels for the Hunts at the lbs I was buying the bike from before collecting it.
Touch wood the BB30a BB has been fine - my bike has the Si cranks and I’ve swapped the fsa semi compact rings for compact Spiderings.
The caad12 can run 28’s - I think the caad13 can go wider than that if required - and it has mudguard mounts I believe (which they 12 hasn’t).
That Supersix is also seriously nice.
My thread on it is here if you want a read.
Food for thought, thanks.
Have you considered the modern Scott range?
I do like the looks of Scott's bikes but they are priced a bit ambitiously and I wouldn't like to go from the HMX to HMF versions.
A Canyon Endurace would fit nicely into that budget: https://www.canyon.com/es-es/road-bikes/endurance-bikes/endurace/endurace-cf-sl-disc-7.0/2396.html?dwvar_2396_pv_rahmenfarbe=BK%2FGY&dwvar_2396_pv_rahmengroesse=2XS
("Only" 105 though - not that there's anything wrong with 105 of course!)
A Canyon Endurace would fit nicely into that budget:
Last time I saw the endurance reviewed they said it was a brutally hard ride....
I've got a 2018 Synapse disc as my winter bike, and the 2019 Supersix disc as my summer bike. The Supersix is definitely stiffer and more responsive, but the Synapse is more sure footed and is actually no slower... But it just feels slower! Maybe the hi-mod Synapse would be a bit stiffer and more responsive.
It terms of riding position, you can replicate a racey position on the Synapse, you just have to get rid of the big conical spacer.
If I was buying one as a summer bike, I'd go for a Supersix. It just puts more of a smile on my face. I realise I'm talking about the old one, but I'm assuming the new one can only be better...
Last time I saw the endurance reviewed they said it was a brutally hard ride….
Really? I've got one (the 2018 model IIRC) and there's nothing brutal about it, far from it. TBH I probably should have got something a little more agressive: I bought it thinking I'm nearly 50, most of my riding is 4hrs heading up and down mountains, it'd be ideal... but it's a bit too comfortable.
Really? I’ve got one (the 2018 model IIRC) and there’s nothing brutal about it, far from it. TBH I probably should have got something a little more agressive: I bought it thinking I’m nearly 50, most of my riding is 4hrs heading up and down mountains, it’d be ideal… but it’s a bit too comfortable.
I think it might have been an aluminium one in a £1000-£1500 bike test or something like that. I think a Specialized won the test....
Benman - great stuff cheers, apparently the new Supersix feels like the old one but perhaps more comfy & aero? So given your comments and my preference for an engaging ride, that's very helpful. How do you find the comfort difference between your bikes? Does the SUpersix ever feel rattly or fatiguing?
I bought it thinking I’m nearly 50, most of my riding is 4hrs heading up and down mountains, it’d be ideal… but it’s a bit too comfortable.
That's kind of why I didn't really love my old Defy, so another hint that maybe I don't want a "comfort" bike really.
I found the Synapse slower than my Supersix, noticeably slower. In fact I’d go as far and say as an all around bike the Supersix was the fastest and liveliest I’ve had. I’d get another if they were still at the 6.5kg range.
If I was still racing I’d be on a second hand HMF (rim brake and nice light but aero wheels).
I’ve had a lot of bikes, the vast majority considered top of the range at the time and the Supersix is just an awesome bike.
My Aeroad may be faster on flatter rides, but for most rides the Supersix is the one for me.
When the roads get rough, the Synapse is slighty more comfortable. This could partly be due to less stiff wheels and bars though (than my Supersix). As a year-round bike its superb because of the integrated full mudguard mounts.
However I'll happily do big rides on the Supersix in comfort, its not harsh and unforgiving at all. I would have been doing the Whitton on it this year.
Unless the newer models are better, definitely budget for a wheelset upgrade. The Cannondale standard ones were incredibly heavy.
Oh and in case its important to you - my Synapse disc with Ultegra, Hollowgram cranks and Hunt alu wheels is about 7.9kg, and my Supersix disc with Ultegra, Hollowgram cranks and Hunt Carbon 50's is around 7.6kg. So not much in it!
@cha****ng This just underlines what a steal those CR1 SL's were. I know it was a bit of a feeding frenzy on here and a couple of people sneered at the choice, but they do ride fantastically and are very light.
Assuming the frame is still OK, why not treat it to a nice light groupset and wheel combo. Get the weight down to ~7kg and carry on?
I keep looking. I've a 'standard' CR1 which is the year they stopped the Addict and remarketed it as the CR1 and a CR1 SL. The FrankenAddict has R8000 and Ksyrium Pro Carbon SL's - so a nice build and the SL has Dura Ace, Reynolds Assaults and carbon everything. They are, still both fantastic. The standard bike is my travel bike and has done a lot of Alpine stuff. It must have 15k miles on it now. The SL is my special bike and flies. It's really hard to find something special to replace them with though I'm not swayed by disc and thru axle for my lightest roadbikes which makes things, a bit easier.
We should do a 'where are they now' on the SL's...
Trek Domane?
+1
Cracking bikes that sit right between endurance and sporty. Ride all day comfort but respond well when you feel like putting the hammer down, especially with a set of carbon rims
Thanks again Benman, that's really useful. Both seem very light compared to quoted figures. The Ultegra Supersix Disc comes with 1,500g carbon wheels - which is nice.
@cha****ng This just underlines what a steal those CR1 SL’s were. I know it was a bit of a feeding frenzy on here and a couple of people sneered at the choice, but they do ride fantastically and are very light.
Assuming the frame is still OK, why not treat it to a nice light groupset and wheel combo. Get the weight down to ~7kg and carry on?
Yes I sold mine then bought someone else's because I missed it. I have Ultegra, a 1,500g wheelset and nice carbon post & handlebar - so mine doesn't need to be any lighter but I would like bigger tyres and discs.
We should do a ‘where are they now’ on the SL’s…
Mine's usually on the lanes of either West Lancs or East Herts...
That’s kind of why I didn’t really love my old Defy, so another hint that maybe I don’t want a “comfort” bike really.
Yeah, don't get me wrong - I love my Endurace - but I really should have got an Ultimate instead, it's all just a little bit too much "sit up and beg".
Well yesterday I'd kind of decided to get the synapse, then further posts on this thread have moved me back towards a SuperSix or similar.
I reckon there'll be a significant improvement in comfort over my CR1 anyway.
Has anyone gone from the CR1 SL frame to a more modern disc bike? I know loads of us had them.
Hi, Chapa
I’ve had 3 Synapse - all Hi-mod - a 2013 rim brake (which i sold to a friend who has used it for everything from day to day riding, to bike packing trips, including an 8 day Strade Bianche tour in Tuscany - he loves it), then the 2015 rim brake one with the split ST, and then the DA disc one - thought the 2 rim brake ones were great but that the disc one was just a bit underwhelming - but all sold now
I also have a 2013 Supersix HM, with 38mm Wheelsmith wheels and Ultegra 6800 - wouldn’t sell it for the world - brilliant bike that I’ve done everything from racing to 100 milers, and its never failed to disappoint.
Just wish I’d bought the HM disc last year instead of the Synapse ☹️
Just my tuppence worth.
Good info thanks Johnny, reinforces my direction further still.
🙂
Oops - just read that last bit - meant it has never disappointed
Most of my riding is reasonably hilly with the odd flat bit in between, I’m lucky to average 25km/h.
You will see an aero benefit. I’m three months into a return to regular riding on a V2-R and I’m faster than I expected due to the aero frame. 24kmh average on the Claud Butler nail, 26 plus on the Colnago. I hope to get back to 30-ish commute by season end. I suspect I’m not going to get close to my 32 best.
Recently bought a 2020 Supersix. I went for the SRAM Force AXS one. It’s not super light, but it’s brilliant. Quick, comfortable... a real joy to ride.
Not sure if it'll help your decision making but Hargreaves Cycles have a few roadbikes that are ex display/ ex demo that they are shifting.
They currently have a 56cm SystemSix (the new Aero one) with Ultegra for £1949
https://www.hargreaves-cycles.co.uk/m39b0s412p0/SHOP-SOILED/Road
Can't speak for the other bikes as I haven't ridden them but I'm sure they are all excellent. I've just bought a Roubaix Comp and I'm absolutely blown away by it; it's my first modern fat-tyre road bike and it's dramatically better then my old 2014 Roubaix, which I'm going to sell soon. What's really impressive about the new Roubaix is the speed on the flat and downhill - I've been out with a local shop group and noticed straight away that if I get dropped on climbs, I'm making up ground on the flat and downhills. The stiff frame and excellent through axles make it handle superbly so it climbs well and goes downhill like a demon, with the assurance of the excellent brakes. I'm thinking a Roubaix S Works might be the ultimate endurance bike and I've PMd Dovebiker about my idea.
Creg, the thing about that Systemsix is its kind of half an aero bike. The frame is made for an integrated cockpit, the stem and bars just don’t look right and it needs deep wheels.
I hired the Ultegra Di2 Systemsix last year in Girona. 65mm deep Knot wheels and integrated bar/stem. I’ve ridden a lot of aero bikes and a fan of Cannondales, but the Systemsix was really underwhelming. Normally I’d accept that hire bikes are not good to judge a bike from, but the wheels were terrible in the cross winds, coming down the climbs was like riding on the back of a tiger, was all over the place. Climbing, well coming from an Aeroad I’d read a lot about how good the Systemsix climbed, nope. I found it to feel dead, almost feeling like it was stalling when taking speed into the climb. It felt great on days with no wind and flat routes, but I certainly wasn’t impressed. I’d love to see stats showing how often it was ridden by EDF in 2019 compared to the old SuperSix.
I had a 2015 Defy Advanced Pro 2, but always really fancied a Supersix. Picked up a Supersix Evo Hi Mod frame last year from Sigma Sport on sale. It's a great, badass, super bike. But really, I was more comfortable on my Defy and am tempted to get an Endurance style frame again post Lockdown - Defy doesn't seem to be available as a frame only, so maybe I'll get a Roubaix frame on sale.
If you wan't something comfy, the Defy would be my choice. Just watch the frame sizes. Their M/L is a L in most other brands. At just over 6 foot, the M/L fit me well. I went with a 58cm SuperSix with a 100mm stem to get a feel not too dissimilar to the Defy I had and it's fine - smooth, fast, but it's just not quite right for my aging back.
I found the 2015 Defy Advanced Pro (same gen as I think last years more or less) worked great with 28mm tyres, and the Defy is on the more racey end of the endurance bikes - was plenty snappy. My Supersix is snappier still, but not massively so. The Defy was great.
You can still get last years Supersix frame for a great price. I had to buy a few bits, but mostly moved everything over from my Defy and upgraded it later.
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/Cannondale/SuperSix-Evo-Hi-MOD-Disc-Frameset/F65J?s=1
Woodster - I'm going to plead complete ignorance when it comes to the SystemSix. I'd seen one of the Sigma videos about it and thought "oooo" but haven't actually ridden one although I did want to try one. I've only ever had one Cannondale, a 2012 SuperSix and thought it was amazing but ultimately too much bike for a cake and sofa enthusiast such as myself so I sold it on.
These days I stick to whatever cheap crap I can find to throw on a turbo trainer and rarely venture onto the roads (we are overloaded with tourist traffic in my part of North Yorkshire) although with them being so quiet it is tempting to get some road miles in.
Also, if you happen to be in Surrey and are after a 54cm frame, by father bought one of those Orro Gold STC Disc DI2 bikes, with Fulcrum Carbon Disc wheels (which I believe were an upgrade). He's had it a couple of years and ridden it half a dozen times. Beautiful bike. He's likely willing to sell it for £1500 to £1800. If it weren't for lockdown he'd have shipped it to me in Glasgow to breakdown to parts and eBay.
https://www.rutlandcycling.com/bikes/road-bikes/scott-foil-20-disc-2019-aero-road-bike-yellowblack_461000 for ~£1925 before cashback doesn't look a bad deal, if you fit a 54cm, which looks to be a "medium" but I'm struggling to find a geometry chart.
It's an awkward price point. You'd likely end up with a fairly decent frame and obligatory Shimano disc groupset, but poor wheels, tyres and finishing kit.
Since we're in isolation, I'd likely build my own based on a secondhand frame/forks and finishing kit, with a new groupset and some wheels from Lightbicycle or Farsports.
Also, if you happen to be in Surrey and are after a 54cm frame, by father bought one of those Orro Gold STC Disc DI2 bikes
That sounds like a great deal but I am in NW England, ta.
I've gone leftfield with a real eBay bargain (from a bike shop) in the end, which I'll pop back and share when/if it turns up. Bit superstitious about revealing beforehand.
Should end up with a hell of a bike for well under budget anyway.
Bit late to this post but I just want to go out on a wing and say a few things.
The system 6 is a bike I’ve sought after for the last year or two, never got a chance to own or ride one but I do like them a lot and heard good things.
One thing I want to say is with road bike frames, stack height and reach are two important numbers that can make a frame / bike suitable for someone (or not). You can change around the stem length and headset spacers etc, but ultimately if the stats and geometry of the bike don’t match up to your body, you won’t have an amazing time riding it, and possibly a disappointing “new bike day”. Why am I saying this? It drives me bananas when I read reviews about bikes, often on well known websites, and they say things like “it felt very long and stretched out”... or, “it felt a bit cramped”... etc.
A dreamy ride or a lovely bike for you might not match up with someone else, we all have different proportions. So I’d take all advice with a pinch of salt.
I’ve been to a good bike fit and I know exactly what measurements to look for in a frame, some frames are way off to what I need.
But... I do think aero bikes / frames are the way to go. I ride a Lapierre Aircode, I still remember the day I test rode it and how fast it felt compared to my old alloy tubing traditional road bike. Randomly it fits me spot on too (but I did go down a size).
Merlin cycles have good sales on the Aircode, they are lovely but don’t read the reviews. I raced the race around Ireland Ultra on mine last year (47 hours)...I’m currently toying with the idea of going to discs but both my fancy wheelsets I bought last year are rim only. First world problems.
Ah well, no aero for me in the end.
I've got one of these for a very reasonable price on eBay...
It's got a light hi-mod frame, previous-generation Ultegra with discs and is new from a shop.
I've used the saving from the original budget to get some Prime carbon wheels from CRC and some 28mm tubeless Schwalbe Pro One tyres.
With those changes and moving some bits over from my current bike, it should get under 8kg.
Geometry seems the same as my first road bike, a Boardman Team Carbon, which I really liked.
Oooo....
Hopefully a worthy successor to the CR1 SL Boblo.
Similar concept of being an "endurance" bike that's actually pretty sporty, but with room for 28mm tyres to give a bit more cush - and discs, obvs.
Not so easy on the eye as the CR1, but I daresay it might grow on me.
I'm sure it will be perfect, just get some miles on it and enjoy it. We do seem to agonise over this and that. Just remember the rough stuff silly sods were out there 'doing it' in flat hats before the Californian's had even heard of repack...
<edit> Ooo and I'm out on my SL tomoz - mid sections plus 30mph winds... Be good for the reactions. Froome anyone...? 😒
I take it the CR1 is not the same as the SL? A couple of the former on eBay, any idea of the frame/fork weights of both?
We do seem to agonise over this and that.
I've been fretting over this a bit, but I think it's because I don't feel as comfortable with road bike geometry and components as I do MTB stuff.
And it's an expensive decision when you can't demo.
Got a good feeling about this now though.
Al, full nomenclature = Scott CR1 SL. They do/did other versions of the CR1 so beware. I've also a CR1 Pro that's standard carbon and therefore a bit heavier. Google gives 860 + 330 for the SL which sounds reasonable for HMX carbon. I weighed mine before assembly and though my memory is a bit hazy, that sounds about right. Mine built with Dura Ace, carbon mid sections and pedals/cages/garmin mount weighs 7.2kg. It's lovely. Come down and have a go. 😁
Cheers Miles, sounds similar to my Hi mod Supersix