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I have DT XM481 rims (27.5) on my bird AM160. They are getting a bit knackered and tbe spokes are starting to break so it’s probably not worth getting it re-buil
I feel the DT rims are a bit soft so I’m not looking to replace with the same thing.
I’m more trail than enduro but based in the peak rocks feature quite a lot! I’m nervous about carbon rims but could be pursued
I’d like 30mm internal width and something not made of cheese.. I’ve been pointed at hope rims, the fortus 30 single cavity seems to fit the bill.
So, recommendations, thoughts and advice gratefully received
Ta in advance
Do you run inserts? Also when you say 'knackered' is that dinged and bent?
Honestly if you can I'd go carbon with rimpact inserts. My E13 carbon TRSR weekend are nearly 3 years old with 1500km on them, including plenty of lakes/peaks/Scottish rock and boulders, aside from the scratches they are as straight as they were when they were new.
You have to be doing some serious damage to break a carbon rim these days, and they don't dent.
Not really tried the new Single Cavity Hope Fortus, the old ones were a bit heavy and had issues with not standing up well to getting dinged, the SC seem to be a fair bit lighter though and comparable with EX511s, they're slightly heavier, but eyeleted, so about the same overall.
Options are pretty much as above though, Fortus SC or EX511s, i've always stuck with DT rims though, but that's been through picking up bargains more than just focusing on them.
If you're disappointed by the xm481 you'll likely be devastated by any other brand.
The ex511 is the same width but slightly heavier/stronger.
Inserts might be a good choice and with the fortus 30 29" rim at 720g you could double up on rim inserts for the porky weight difference over the 481 😉
200g more in the hope rim.. that's crazy!
Treat yourself and buy my XM1501 wheels already set up with rimpacts in the classifieds 😀. OK, they may be the same rims as you already have but I’d rather them or 511s than Hopes.
Do you run inserts? Also when you say ‘knackered’ is that dinged and bent?
No inserts, knackered as in straight(ish) but quite badly dented/dinged in places. Still seal but bust a good few spokes. I feel they are to far gone to justify getting them rebuilt.
Carbon is becoming a possibility!
Choose a thick dual ply tyre for the rear, get your tyre pressures right and you should avoid the problem. The wheels are rarely the issue.
I feel the DT rims are a bit soft so I’m not looking to replace with the same thing.
How old are the rims? I have vague memories that DT Swiss replaced their soft cheese rim material with something rather more robust a few years back, though I may simply be confused by old age and lack of alcohol / caffeine.
I had some proper cheese stock rims on my Levo, managed to dent them on wet tree roots within a few weeks. Put Rimpacts in, and they were still going strong on the Levo three years later and now they're on my 160mm hardtail.
Your XM481 rims are meant to be some of the toughest rims that don't weigh a ton, with EX511 being tougher still (that's what I've got on the Levo's new wheels).
I don't know if spokes breaking are a sign that the rim is knackered, the spokes are knackered or both. But foam inserts will help whatever you do!
Carbon is brilliant for not denting. Sure they can break, but I've been impressed by XMC1200s so much that I bought EMC1500 when the bike was nicked.
The only advantage aluminum rims have is price.
I don’t know if spokes breaking are a sign that the rim is knackered, the spokes are knackered or both. But foam inserts will help whatever you do!
What I mean is the wheel is close to needing a rebuild and the rim is at a point where it’s not worth saving.
The spokes that have gone have all gone riding uphill, and not at the point they cross.
I wonder if actually I should be impressed by how much abuse the 481 have taken and survived rather than thinking they are a bit soft.
They came with the bike so three years old (I think!) but who knows how long they were in a workshop for.
I’m slightly reluctant to go with insert’s although I can’t explain why. Something else I’ll have a look into
few years back
Golly, the rims referred to as cheese were the 6.1D and prior. Largely solved once DT moved away from the red FR2350 and started using 2250 etc.
The white EX1750 was the first wheelset that was built with the 5.2d rim iirc and where they came off the softer x.1 rims.
that was 2007, so just a few years back yes 😉
Prior to 2007, DT were making rims that got you down a race course and you could straighten out with pliers at home, vs Mavic that cracked and you had to replace.
Carbon is nice, i have a set that i built up on the cheap with some whyte rims, they do feel good and haven't broken even with my crashing habits, but i do see some horror posts of carbon rims exploding in some crashes, it's just the way they work, carbon explodes, aluminium would just bend or fracture, to be fair i did get a couple of nice hubs due to carbon rims breaking on other folks bikes, so not all bad 😁
I’d honestly go with more DT Swiss rims - just go up to an ex511. They’re the 30mm version of the ex471 that Aaron Gwin rode leogang on with no tyre most of the course
https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/videos/aaron-gwin-on-fire-with-no-tyre
There is one stronger if you really want something exceptional strong - the FR560 but I doubt you need that.
On the insert what’s your resistance to that? I’ve stuck in a Rimpact on the back wheel of both bikes when running flimsier tyres (Forekaster / slaughter / reckon), but haven’t bothered when running something sturdier like a dhr2 or aggressor. It was a bit more of a fiddle to get mounted on the rim but other than that I wouldn’t say I’ve noticed they’re in there.
that was 2007, so just a few years back yes 😉
Like I said, lack of alcohol and caffeine. It feels like yesterday though 😉
In a video where Steve Peat road one of his old bikes they said that prior to tubeless rims were made of aluminium that was soft so it reduced the risk of pinch flats by sacrificing the rim
If carbon is looking interesting and you have 27.5" wheels, might be worth a look at the discounted Reynolds in Wiggle.
I have a set of the 40mm wide rims and our youngest has some 30mm wide, both in Black Label form with I9 hubs.
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycle/wheel-sets?ea=4294789340&ris=1
Both holding up very well - mine are on a hard tail and I weigh 120KG.
Main FS bike has EX511 on Pro 4 in 29" and they haven't needed touching in 4 years riding, so can also vouch for them.
Replaced a cracked csrbon light bicycle rear rim on a chameleon with a 481 with a rimpact. Not looked back.
It surely has to be ex511s? I had a tyre slashed recently. Instant flat to banging on cobbles for a few metres. I'm 13.5 stones, and was wearing my commuting backpack with a fair bit of stuff in it. Merely a scratch on the rim.
I loved my XM481's. I threw them down loads of Alps on my Geometron and they were in great condition. I bought them for the low weight knowing that I might have to switch to the 511 if I killed them but they were fine until the bike got nicked. Would definitely buy again.
I've been unimpressed by all the Hope rims I've had in the past but that was pre Fortus.
They came with the bike so three years old (I think!) but who knows how long they were in a workshop for
About a day normally. They're built on demand.
Sounds like you should step it up to a 511 ot inserts. I'm on a 481 riding all week on some really tasty trails in Scotland. I've been smashing on the rims regularly all week but the cushcore is taking it all. There's no way I can expect the 481s I'm riding to take it without them being realistic.
If you want a 511 you can send your hub back to Bird to get it rebuilt for a good price.
One more vote for “Enduro ready” DT EX 471 (25mm) and 511 (30mm). Not soft.
Maybe the old ones and the XC ones were/are weaker.
As Jo wrote - watch Aaron Gwin ride a 471 on a WC DH without a tyre.
Or go Spank Vibrocore (30mm internal) - you CAN feel the damping.
If you are denting and knackering XM481s, you need to look at tyres/pressures/inserts, I have a pair that look like someone has taken an angle grinder to them, multiple trips to france/italy/scotland and now weekly use on the eeb and they are still straight and true.
I'd steer clear of carbon as well, expensive, stiff and not durable.
ex 471 or ex511 like has been mentioned above. I'm running ex471 on most of my bikes. I don't run silly low pressures and the only damage they have is scratches on the outside of the rim from rock strikes.
It surely has to be ex511s?
Yep, and with tyre inserts. I'd suggest Rimpact Pro.
Couldn't get any recently so I've just had an ex471 built onto one of my rear wheels. I remember dinging those off every rock down the Annat descent in Torridon before inserts were a thing and being amazed they were undamaged.
Thank you all for the advice.
I’ll have another look at the DT rims as they are obviously well thought of.
Need to figure out if a heavier duty rim with no inserts is better than a lighter one with, but it feels like an insert for the rear might be a good idea.
My tyre pressure isn’t crazy low, actually around 28-30 according to the pump, but who knows how accurate that is.
Off to spend some money!!
I've got the same rims as you on the same frame as you. Back one did get a bit bent after the first year and I have a EX511 in stock to replace it with, but having run an insert in the old rim since the dings I've had no more, and I still haven't got round to rebuilding the wheel, so I'm inclined to think that a 481 and an insert from the outset would've done me just fine.
pleased with my Spank Oozys. Mine are 30mm Internal, 29"ers
quite a stiff rim to build, but they have this weird inverted/double well thing, and ridged bead hooks meaning that once your tyres are seated you can run them at naff all pressure and they dont burp or leak.
not especially expensive either
https://spank-ind.com/collections/rims/products/spank-359-rim
Built mine up probably 5 years ago now, and havent touched them.
Need to figure out if a heavier duty rim with no inserts is better than a lighter one with
Inserts + lower pressures feel way nicer, BUT I got some v impressive dings shortly after going crazy with lower pressures. I also ride in the peak. So while I'm totally sold on inserts for MTB, if you run them at lower pressures, which is the point of them, for me at least, don't expect them to protect your rims perfectly.
So I'd go heavier rim, inserts (+ lighter tyre if you want to save weight).
Why not have a chat with DCR wheels in Lewes East Sussex. Dave and his team are a super helpful and have very impressive levels of stock - Dave will sell rims but they are such very good builders too.
I can build a wheel and have a few times, but wouldn’t attempt it just to save £30 as they are SO much more skilled, doing it every day.
If you want 30mm internal, the 471 is too narrow. I use 2.4 tyre with 471 27.5 rear predominantly.
EX 511 or Spank 29 front. (Both 30mm).
A narrower rear steers better IMO