[Closed] Rigid riders, questions

ESI grips, cushy, foamy loveliness. Make your hands get hot if you dont wear gloves though.

I have steel bars with a groovy shape, I do use a high volume front tyre though and find my fragile (weedy) upper arms and hands cope fine.

Lower front tyre pressure
ESI foamy grips (the large ones)

What grips are you running?

If the answer isn't ESI Chunky (or even extra chunky if you have large hands) then try some of those.

Noticeably more comfy on my hardtail, I imagine they'd be even better on rigid. I think on-one were doing them cheap, or check out charlie the bikemonger.

I'd look at - in order
big chunky grips - yes they help.
Big chunky tyres - ditto (and trying some that were designed this decade may be a good idea 🙂 )
Flexier bars, tho probably carbon rather than Ti.

But for free you could change your technique, looser grip on the bars, obviously keep your fingers locked in a grip so you don't lose hold of them, just with a greater internal diameter, let the bars rattle around a bit, then grab a proper hold when you need to.
Practice will also toughen up your wrists, arms and shoulders.

Also check the sweep of your bars, first couple ride on a new rigid bike had my hands really aching, I altered the sweep and it was a fair bit better.

I'm running Lizard Skin grips at the moment.

[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/lizard-skins-logo-single-compound-grips/rp-prod18667 ]Lizard Skin Grips[/url]

Looks like I'll be getting ESI grips! Cheapest thing to change first as well 8)

Cheers.

Softer front tyre and you'll get used to it.

Larger tyre will help though - 2.3 or a 2.4. It'll only add a little bit more weight, but the increase in speed will outweigh that.

D0NK - Yeah, I noticed the sidewalls are looking a bit cracked now, they'e a bit last-decade 😆 They never fail to impress me though. I'm running EA70 bars at the moment, no sweep on them. Bigger grips may well help as I have largish hand, and I'll need to look into the sweep thing a bit more.

Cheers.

Just had a thought actually, my mate has some Verticals (2.3") on his bike. We run the same discs so I'll borrow his front wheel and give it a go, that'll be free 8)

What about forks ?

I first started rigid single speeding on aluminium forks & they were vicious - felt like I'd rattle my fillings out !

Now using carbon forks & what a difference !

Not expensive & bullet proof.

Check out On One or Exotic .

ESI grips in general are good, even the slim ones are quite soft and "damped". The extra chunkys were a bit much for me tbh, too much squish.

Never really sure if carbon bars make a difference. Big tyre definitely does, I ran a 2.5 Nevegal on mine with low pressures which was kind of ridiculous but made it possible to do things I just wouldn't do with less squish.

Yes - worth a go. Also just try and ride as much as possible with the rigid set-up and you'll get used to it and ride in a looser manner with less pounding on your hands.

Just had a thought actually, my mate has some Verticals

Thought about trying some silly bars?

Ive got On One Mary bars on mine (about £10 from On One, if i remember correctly). They put your wrists in a much more neutral position, and they're very comfortable.

That said, i'm running steel forks with a big tyre on a wide rim, so perhaps that's making things more comfy for me.

Relax.
Wide bars with sweep.
Always look for smooth lines ( usually where no one else rides) even if it's not the 'traditional" fast line- inside corners etc.
BIG tyres,toobless at 20ish psi.
Brake with one finger.
Relax.

[url= http://www.charliethebikemonger.com/esi-chunky-silicone-mtb-grips-2234-p.asp ]Are these the ESI grips mentioned above?[/url]

D0NK - You can't rush progress! I'm very happy with them so see no reason to change I guess.

Flats and Cane Creek Ergo bar-ends. A change of position will give your hands some rest.

Titanium bars

Fatter tyre

Gel type grips

Reagrding relaxing, I think fatter grips will help with this. I never considered it before, but mine are pretty narrow and even a loose grip requires my hand to be curled quite a bit.

Definitely do NOT want wider bars. Don't like them at all (have tried bikes with them). Would rather put suspension forks back on than go with wider bars! (I don't like wide, or rise bars btw).

Flats and Cane Creek Ergo bar-ends. A change of position will give your hands some rest.

Totally agree, I have those already and wouldn't be without them. I'm always on them as soon as I can be.

I don't ride as much rigid as I used to, but I've only really started using sus regularly in the last 5 years of (cough) 28 years of riding.

So all of the following make a noticeable difference (in roughly cost order):

1. Gloves - padding makes a big difference, especially over longer rides. Padded gloves have gradually dropped out of fashion (inversely to the increasing ubiquitousness of suspension) but Specialized and Giro still make very good gloves with strategic padding.

2. Grips - not what you might expect but I find thinner grips to be better than fatter (more squishy) ones. I think you tend to be able to hold them in a more relaxed manner, causing less fatigue.

3. Tyres - bigger is definitely better, and better is also better! Things like increased sidewall suppleness become more noticeable riding rigid. Also tubeless makes a massive difference as you can drop the pressure so much more. Fat doesn't have to slow either. You can get light and supple 2.3+ tyres which are great for rigid fronts (eg Conti RaceKings). I've got those and Maxxis Ardents (massive 2.4s) on my rigid bikes. It might seem a lot but decent tyres, set up tubeless, is money well spent for rigid riding IME. Different manufacturers size very differently too, so don't just rely on the stated width, try and seem a set inflated.

And 2.1" Conti Explorers? Yurgh. Get with the programme 😉

4. Bars - before sus was the norm bars were all about lightness and vibration absorption. It's less of a issue with sus, so it's no longer a selling point, but it does make a difference. The trend for wider bars helps here too, but be careful not to go too chunky.

5. Forks - the difference between decent carbon, or lightweight steel forks and chunky alu or steel forks is massive. But bear in mind you weight and riding style. And never look down at carbon forks when you're braking hard - that flex will give you the willies 😉

6. Rims - cf tyres and not just for rigid needs - wider rims can make a significant difference to the tyre performance you want when riding rigid. Increased volume and opening up the tread/shoulder better.

Oh and ODI Yeti grips were my favourites for years - now more of a Ruffian man.

Technique makes the biggest difference (loose grip on the bars, stay loos and use your arms and legs as suspension, choose good lines).
Big wheels make a difference. I've had 26in and 29in rigid bikes and would always choose the latter.
A large volume front tyre at a lower pressure makes a difference.
Flexy bars make a difference. Don't get hung up on what they're made from - ali, carbon and, I'm sure, titanium bars can be either stiff or flexy.
Forks make a difference but IME more to 'feel' than how much you actually get battered.
Geometry makes a difference. I've just moved from an Inbred 29er to a Stooge and it's much easier on my old bones. Mainly, I think, due to the high, slack front end, although the short rear also helps by making it easier to unweight or loft the front.

Never tried ESI grips. I really must.

I used to get quite a bit of hand pain, even with suspension, and on rigid forks it was agony after more than an hour or so. I started using a forearm exerciser regularly to build up grip strength, and that helped enormously. I think it's not so much maximum grip strength as the ability to control how much you grip and release as required that enables you to avoid getting your hands smashed about quite so much.

The other thing I can definitely recommend is getting a decent sized tyre up front. I currently have a 2.35 Hans Dampf at about 20 PSI on my rigid SS, it works well on pretty much everything I ride and really takes the edge off all the small repetitive stuff that can really grind my hand-bones.

Oh, and angle your brake levers up if you haven't already. They should be maybe 15-20 degrees off horizontal, this dramatically reduces the pressure on your wrists.

Are these the ESI grips mentioned above?

Yup.

And 2.1" Conti Explorers? Yurgh. Get with the programme

Agreed. If you're really wedded to them, at least get a Vert Pro on the front.

Then you too can be a Big Hitter, circa 1996

OP, reading between the lines of your comments, I'm guessing you're running a deeply unfashionable narrow bar, long stem combo. If so, that'll put more weight on your hands and add significantly to your pain.

Let it go. Join the revolution.

On the other hand, feel free to tell me to do one. 😀

Raise your brake lever angle slightly? = palm of hand rests better on bar as opposed to thumb & first finger grasping bar to hold on (which results in palm pump). Or not.

Thanks all, lots of advice to consider above.

The forks are Kensis Maxlight XLT's, they absorb big hits very well and also flex noticeably under braking (more than I expected). I did a lot of research and like the fact that these are reliant on design, rather than material, for their qualities (shaped like forks used to be 😉 ).

Cheapest thing for me to try will be the grips and larger front tyre. I'll see how that goes before spending money elsewhere. I suspect the larger tyre will make the most noticeable difference, and that's free for me to try at least.

We are riding tomorrow, so I'll swap front wheels with my mate and let you know how the fatter front tyre goes.

And then swap to some Conti black chilli protection hoodoo voodoo smulch RC in a 2.4" variety on Da front & 2.2" on Da rear @ 20ps eye.

+1 on most of the above.

2.2-2.3 tyres minimum, and not old conti's which were really narrow, even the 2.3's were smaller than most 2.1's.

Foam grips, never tried ESI grips, but foam work fine for me.

Wide bars, rise depending on the bike. Maybe knock a few mm of the stem if going from 560mm bars and 130mm stem to 680mm bars, but not essential, mines still an unfashionable 110mm, but it's an XC bike not 'enduro'.

What is this suspension everybody's talking about?

Ti frame, eXotic carbon forks, Ergon grips... you'll only miss the springy bits when you ride down a flight of steps.

Aim to ride more out of the saddle with your feet taking the weight and ride loose.

Next step, single speed, which helps keeping you out of the saddle. 🙂

If it hasn't been mentioned - and maybe a lot cheaper than some of the suggestions - get your weight off the front

Get the front end higher, hands/arms further up and back. Saddle back on its rails, lay-back seat post etc

Rigid works best imo when ridden almost BMX style - off the back wheel

Other than running 2.4" tyres, I'm doing everything wrong on my bike 🙂

Unforgiving steel On-One forks, 26" wheels, skinny grips, medium-width bars, unpadded gloves. I'd recommend never riding a suspension fork and 23 years of riding rigid 🙂

I run 2" tubeless Mud X tyres, cheap carbon bars (Syncros Gain I think), bar ends and a Niner carbon fork.

It's not as good as suspension on the pile of rubble downhill you sometimes get, but it's not bad.

Bonesetter's right, carbon this and foam that makes no odds compared to getting your weight off the front. Read about Jeff Jones take on it all on his site, he pretty much re-jigged mtbs a long time ago on that basic idea.

I ran carbon forks on my rigid 29er with Ergon grips. Whilst I loved the tracking, and never had hand pain, they would rub the skin off the inside of my thumbs on a regular basis.

26er with bouncy forks now, and I won't be going back. Just need lighter forks than Recon Gold 😉

Hand pain sounds like grip and brake lever angle. Set the levers so there is no wrist bend.

Bonesetter's right, carbon this and foam that makes no odds compared to getting your weight off the front.

I've been running my saddle rammed right back on the rails for a good few years now, so that makes sense. But I also run my bars as low as they'll go, so I'd disagree with higher bars.

I can't really add much more to what's already been said.
I've had the XLT forks and I was always suprised at how much they did soak up, considering the consensus on Al forks is of teeth-rattling stiffness! Also, quoting Jeff Jones, I believe the Truss forks have absolutely no movement in them at all, but I suppose that does tie in much more with the rest of the frame design?
I did find On-Ones' steel forks fine, no problem. The Carbon ones frightened me with the amount of flex and flutter though!
On my last 26" I had a Continental Vapour 2.5 on a 47mm trials rim on the front, that worked beautifully in wet and dry (though not mud).
Also, ODI Longneck ST grips have always been a favourite and come in a little cheaper than the ESIs.

Bonesetter's right, carbon this and foam that makes no odds compared to getting your weight off the front. Read about Jeff Jones take on it all on his site, he pretty much re-jigged mtbs a long time ago on that basic idea.

+1 on this, then get a proper tyre on the front. Don't get hung up on weight, a bigger one will be better in every way.

I love the Conti Explorers as well, and they only come in 2.1")?

Other than technique (e.g. heavy feet & loose hands etc) tyre choice is your main problem unless you're just riding towpaths etc. Try some modern big volume tyres run at a lower pressure, ideally tubeless but not essential. If you don't want to spend a lot of money something like a pair of On-One Chunky Monkey 2.4's would be a good start, or at least try one on the front at around 25psi. You might be pleasantly surprised.

ESI chunky grips also help in my experience and will offset some of the weight gained by the bigger tyres if that bothers you.

Paceman

A Chunky Monkey is an excellent front tyre with rigid forks - I go a lot lower than 25psi though, more like 18 (and tubeless).
This, with a 29" front wheel and Singular Hummingbird forks is a nice combination - it works for me anyway.

[i]Even slowing down didn't help much. [/i]
It won't. Speed up 😉

Hijack, but related - Building up a rigid Swift for Mrs r at the moment. Thinking big tyres eg 2.4 Conti X King, certainly in the front, but not sure whether to take (i.e. give her) the weight penalty of say velocity blunt 35s over Crest/Arch EX for the extra volume. 2kg wheelset rather than 1600g

And would they mess up the tyre profile of a narrower tyre on the back?

I'd disagree with higher bars.

not sure whether to take (i.e. give her) the weight penalty of say velocity blunt 35s over Crest/Arch EX for the extra volume. 2kg wheelset rather than 1600g

Andy R - Member

A Chunky Monkey is an excellent front tyre with rigid forks - I go a lot lower than 25psi though, more like 18 (and tubeless).
This, with a 29" front wheel and Singular Hummingbird forks is a nice combination - it works for me anyway.

I agree, before I went 29+ I was running my Chunky Monkeys at around 18psi tubless and found them to be excellent. 25psi would be more wise if using tubes though.

My Surly Knards i'm now running at 10psi... 😀

Cheers James,

If it was for me, I’d go big, but the it’s mrs r’s, bought so she can spend less effort keeping up in groups and have an easier time on the hills and clipping along on the flat. Current bike is the noughties steel 26" clockwork ltd. reissue jobby. Fun when the trail points down, but there’s something about it that means it drags, rides heavy, could be the actual weight, tubing, geometry, bearings, the tiny, tiny, outmoded wheels…

Wary of taking the Swift build too far down the “handles great, just needs a bit of effort to get it moving/up the hills” as that’s what we’re trying to get away from. The Swift is already a step down that road, but she tried one and liked the ride, liked the looks, didn’t like pulling the dually/knard combo up the hills. Thunder Burts on my stans 340s felt much easier, but more skittish.

I guess one option is to build up a blunt 35 wheelset, if she doesn’t get on with them, we can find something lighter for her and I can save the blunts for the odd occasion when I might need to take it out for a "safety check".

so she can spend less effort keeping up in groups and have an easier time on the hills and clipping along on the flat

I think that's the right answer, to be honest.

Next question: what's like a Crest/Arch EX, but silver?

Haven't we already had this?

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/tips-for-loosening-up-on-the-bike

Gosh, it's like 2004/5 all over again 😆

Been riding my 20" wheeled, singlespeed rigid almost exclusively lately, struggling to want to go back to a big bouncy MTB

Well today went better. On bridleways so many more options for picking the lines. Let a bit of pressure out of the tyres, that helped, but inevitably ended up with a pinch flat before the day was out (ok, I was messing around a bit by then!)

Rode light, kept a looser grip on the bars, and did half the mileage. Felt great at the end of the day! I did put my thick gloves on for the descent (it was cold and raining on the fells today) and that made a big difference, definitely want thicker grips for my larger hands.

I'm sold on a wider front tyre and grips and reckon that will be it sorted. Also need a new rear calliper as I missed having no rear brake on a few sections 😕 A large order awaits on pay day!

Most importantly though, I had LOADS of fun and feel like I'm riding better for it.

1. Relax
2. Do it a lot and your hands will get used to it to some extent.