[Closed] Right... What is the secret with cup and cone hubs!!!

You want to lock off the cone and nut on the drive side, and then the cone disappears into the freehub.

On the non drive side you can get to both cone and nut. So if you have gone over tight then back off the cone against the lock nut to free it up.

So you can play with the tension by having the spanners both on one side or on either side.

Bit of play that is then taken up by the skewer being tightened.

You need a third hand to hold the axle still.

I struggled with for a long time then someone let me in on the one true secret.

Bin them and buy Halo Spin Doctors.

Personally I tighten the cone as desired. Then when tightening the lock nut, use a cone spanner to hold the cone in place. Tighten the lock nut against it whilst using said cone spanner on the cone to stop it moving anywhere.

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also, holding the other end in a vice while you tighten makes it a bit easier.
usually it takes a few attempts to get it right.

Move the lower cone spanner so it is touching the bearings, then snug the locknut down onto it. To put in the last bit of torque, turn the bottom spanner upwards to meet the locknut, otherwise the locknut almost invariably over tightens the cone.

Another tip,is to hold the axle in a vice to stop it turning.

It's much easier with [url=www.halfords.com/cycling/tools-maintenance/tools/park-tool-av1-axle-vice]an axle vice[/url]
I use a black and decker workmate to hold the vice.
This is effectively the third hand mentioned above, freeing your hands to operate the cone spanners.
adjust the cone until it's sung, then back off a wee bit and lock it in place with the locknut.
When you tighten the quick release, it will remove the little bit of play that you introduced the slack, by backing off.

You need a third hand to hold the axle still

AKA a vice.
Hold one end of the axle (or simply the locknut) in a vice and adjust the other end.
You can't get accurate incremental adjustment easily any other way. You can gradually tighten down (tighten locknut, remove from vice, check play/smoothness, readjust if necessary) until all play is gone and the hub is smooth.
With the correct tools, servicing a cup and cone hub is far faster than a cartridge hub. I can literally do it on under 5 minutes including removing and replacing the cassette, cleaning it out and adding new grease and bearings. But I do get a fair bit of practice. 🙂

Never used a vice in all my days

2 x what ever sized spanners i need for the lock nuts

Lock the drive side cone to lock nut

Go close to where i want them to be

Lock the nds cone to lock nut

Step in the cones by tightening the lock nuts a small bit at a time by turning the lock nut spanners , go to desired tension.

If you go too far you need to start again or the cones will unlock.

I love cup and cone hubs as the spin so frictionless , even the best ceramic bearing hubs ive worked on are not a patch for a set of freshly serviced dura ace hubs that have light grease/heavy oil in ( something testers usually request for speed at expense of regular servicing)

With the axle clamped in the vice and the wheel horizontal a gentle spin shows you how close to tight you are getting. Assuming it's all balanced, when the wheel slows, stops and moves a touch backwards it's too tight. Slacken to where it stops and stays still. That's it.

It's easy, just take it to the bike shop.

Never used a vice in all my days

You should try it. It's a lot easier and faster than arsing around like you do. 🙂

It's a bastard of a job! Getting the cone 'just so' so that when it is backed into the locknut the adjustment is perfect........only to have it ruined by the QR being tightened. Grrrrrrrrrr.

One thing I to try was to mount the wheel in the dropout, but outside of the frame. Support the bottom of the wheel on something if you are worried about bending the dropout or suchlike. The act of tightening down the qr can then be easily assessed without faffing the wheel in and out of the bike. You can also use the spokes of the wheel to take a 'bearing' on the adjustment. One spoke's worth (1/32) of a turn can make the difference.

In the end I got Hope hubs 😕

a cone spanner

vice or skillz, you don't need both 😉

Set the drive side cone & locknut, & lock them solid by gripping the axle at it's centre section so you can get them really tight.
Then loosely assemble the hub, with a bit of play.
Then pop in the skewer.
Then, mount the wheel on the outside of the non drive side dropout, with the skewer done up mega tight.
Now you can get your cone spanners in & set the cone & locknut.
Nip up the cone, spin the locknut down against it, then hold the lock nut firmly & back the cone off against it. Takes a bit of practice but its not difficult.
When you release the skewer it might have a bit of play, but that should go when the skewer is done up properly.

Proper tools help a lot. Axle vices are good, but what's really, really good is an axle preloader - it's like an axle vice you thread a QR through, and it preloads the bearings as you tighten them.

Dead easy, 30-second job using one of those.

You must be reading how i do it wrong then , provided you dont have monkey paws and over tighten it the first time( which after your first couple of hubs you wont) youll be finished before you have it clamped in the vice.

Each to their own.

You need a third hand to hold the axle still.

This. Use a vice, or at worst a third cone spanner and a zip tie on the spokes.

Same as getting to Carnegy Hall , , , practice.

I have rarely used a vice and never an axle vice, I tend to do it on feel and instinct based on having done it dozens of times before.

I set the feel up with the NDS lock nut backed right off, twizzle the lock nut down holding the axle in my fingers then cone spanner to hold the cone and prevent it going tighter and then crank the lock nut up tight.

To compensate for the tightening effect of the lock nut I usually then put a tiny twist back against it at the last moment of torque application with the cone (ie loosening turn) something like 1/16 or 1/24.

Edit: you do need to balance the torque to stop the axle wibbling around and no doubt some of the tools referred to above would make it even easier.

+1 for Bencooper and axle preload. Made one from a QR and a bit of steel plate. The cones HAVE to be adjusted with the axle preload/compressed as it will be in the frame with the QR tightened.

All this talk of vices is plain wrong. ****ing rough arse bodgers

Best way of dealing with cup&cone hubs is to not need to strip them in the first place (and not by swopping to cartridge bearings).
See forth pic down on link below,
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/mid-life-make-over-raw-steel-content

Problem with axle vices is they require a, well, vice. Does noone else just clamp the wheel in the other side of the NDS dropout? Might not work with some frames I suppose.

Back in the day when there were no cartridge bearing hubs, I made 2 thick washers out of 10mm steel plate.
Assemble & adjust hub, put thick washer on each end of axle to simulate dropouts, add QR & tighten skewer so it clamps the washers just like the dropouts and adds the preload. Check for play. If cones need a tweak, open QR, get in there with spanners, tweak, tighten QR, check. Repeat as necessary.

No vices, on extra hands, no hassle.

Rob

I cheat a bit, but it's always worked:

Do the drive side locknut/cone up really tight,

Loosely screw the NDS cone into the bearing, do the NDS side locknut/cone up tight, this backs off the cone slightly as it tightens so you end up with a smidgen of play.

Now put one spanner on each locknut and turn them to tighten the whole lot. Go to far, just reverse it by putting the spanners on the cones and turning the other way, harder on the rear as the cones hidden, but usualy the drive sides done up tight enough that doing it on the locknut wont undo it.

Works 1st time every time.

Problem with axle vices is they require a, well, vice.

Well, yes. But everyone has a vice or two, don't they?

never used a vice...

i more or less agree with 'spoon:

1) do one side (cone+locknut) up 'bloody tight' and pop it into the hub

2) screw in (by hand) the other cone, followed by the locknut (also by hand)

the 'loose' cone + lock nut should now be nestled against each other

3) nip them up

4) check for play or tightness

5a) if you find 'play', tighten a smidge with a spanner on both locknuts - yes, you'll need 2 spanners.

5b) if the bearings are tight, loosen a smidge with a cone spanner on both cones - yes, you'll need 2 cone spanners.

6) nip up the 'loose' side a bit more than last time

repeat from step 4 until the loose side is 'tightened up', and there's just a hint of play.

There, easy, takes about 2 mins, and all you need is 4 spanners.

it's all very civilised; you haven't got to hit anything, you won't break anything, you won't bend anything.

it's all very civilised; you haven't got to hit anything, you won't break anything, you won't bend anything.

Where's the fun in that? 😡

if you find 'play', tighten a smidge with a spanner on both locknuts

Problem is, that I have known, in the past, that this method [i]can possibly[/i] lead one to strip the threads on the cone, locknut or axle.
It's not likely, I agree. But it can happen.

I used to do it like this. Now I have a vice, and I can assure you it's waaaaaaaaaaay easier like that. 🙂

There, easy, takes about 2 mins, and all you need is 4 spanners.

Whereas my way takes under a minute and takes 2 spanners. 🙂

OK, yes, and a vice..... 😛

Only time I have had this problem is when re-using worn bearings and cones.

Buy some Hope wheels

Yep i agree peterpoddy - back in the 90s with stupid alloy axels what you describe was common place - but thankfully we left that behind for the most part.

Old school Alloy axels always got the axel clamp vice treatment - thats how i know it takes longer - i have never had or seen a stripped axel nut on a steel axel.

LOL at the "cup and cone adjustment method" Big Hitting.

Is there anything that won't be argued about here?

Ya for the preload QR tip, I might try making one.