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ok,new frame incoming. I have a DH bike (now sold) and a Transition Smuggler from 2018 (planning to sell).
I only ride park. 🙂 . I don't, but that is 90% of my riding. The other 10% is cross country, relatively flat trails from the door. i keep saying i will do more riding in the mountains outside the park, but to be honest, i rarely do. The desire is there however... I also ride at the local hill (main park is an hour away) on their uplift nights (ski anchor lift up) but the runs are sort, around 2 minutes. awesome, technical, pretty steep in places, but the smuggler copes fine there.
I have a fully refundable deposit on a privateer 161 frame.
Pretty mad Geo, biiiiiig bike. Also, looking at some builds, heavy. Recent one on pinkbike forum with cushcore dh tyres coil fox 38s is 40lbs! I would be using an air shock , 36s dh tyres but no inserts, but still,heavy. I'm no weight weenie but yeah probably 36llbs. good price too at around 1800 euros
The other alternative is the new sentinel. I love Transition, the bike is aesthetically HOT. It's 150mm rear, less burly but still a monster for bike park, and i think would suit long days in the saddle better. It's more expensive, but a friend owns a bike shop and can get me one for around 2500 euros. However, it is more money, is perhaps a little safer, and isn't such a like for like replacement of the DH bike.
WWSTWD?
I don't do enough park riding to make a recommendation. But damn that Transition is nice. I'd get that and sleep with it.
Pretty much what Kula said, never really looked much at Transition, always been a bit meh, but that is lovely.
Sentinel. Currently looking for a large Loam Gold one.
Sentinel. I like what Privateer are doing, the theory behind it at least, but can't help but feel the 161 is too much a short travel DH bike; too heavy and the seat tube is so damn steep the seated pedalling position on paper looks super short, too short to make it an all-rounder. As a winch and plummet new school freeride bike/enduro monster maybe, but as a do it all bike, the Sentinel is likely the better choice.
The Privateer is a step too far for me with some aspects of the geometry. I found the STA on my V1 Madonna too much, the 161 is even steeper. Much like Nicolai/Geometron, it's great there are people prepared to push the boundaries, but they arn't going to be for everyone. It also weighs as much (and more) than a DH bike these days.
Out of the two, the Sentinel would win, but I would be concerned over support for them. Friends who have had them in the last year have all broken them & had a real ballache in sorting them out. Which probably relates to another fine example of a UK distributor being useless. I'm not sure 150mm counts as big travel any more either, we were kind of told in the early days 'shorter' travel on a 29" felt like longer travel on a smaller wheeled bike, but that never really made sense to me, even less so now with proper big travel 29" bikes out there.
The Privateer is ugly as heck.
The Transition is pretty....
I'm sold !
Of those two, the Transition.
Bird AM9?
I would have said the Bird AM9 would split the difference between those two as well. Works well with a coil too apparently.
The Bird is so ugly, it makes the Privateer look good 😆
speaking of ugly as heck.... we have the Bird AM. sorry they do nothing for me at all, they are out. regarding coil, both of these work well with coil, although coil on the privateer would up the weight over my imaginary limit i think.
@hobnob, not so concerned about support. i had a small warranty issue with my smuggler and it was sorted very quickly via my place of purchase here in sweden. lifetime warranty with the frame is a plus too. I appreciate that 150mm isn't long travel, but my feeling is that perhaps it is long enough. Especially if i go 170mm at the front.
I think that's the thing. i can't be arsed with multiple bikes anymore any my feeling is that the privateer is for a very specific use as @lawman91 mentions. i think it would be pretty rad to ride park with it though!
The Bird is so ugly, it makes the Privateer look good 😆
I didn't want to say it as they get recommended on here constantly, but they are pretty drab. They look like an Argos BSO at first glance.
With regards to support for Transition in the case anything goes wrong, I think the main issue is supply, rather than a UK specific issue. The bikes are in such high demand, Patrol's are basically sold out and the new Scout/Sentinel/Spur are also very hard to get hold of unless shops have unsold stock from pre-orders they're yet to receive. I think it's just them being a victim of their own success, like Cotic I guess, if anyone has a warranty issue on a BFeMax or Solaris for example. Cotic are an awesome brand to deal with, but they can't magic things out of thin air if something goes wrong.
So similar to me 3 months ago. I'd be all over the Transition. I very nearly did, but I just couldn't justify the cost. Gorgeous bike and I loved my Patrol.
The Privateer was to extreme for me, that seat angle, and reports of it being very much a race bike out me off.
Bird AM9 I just can't get on with visually.
Took delivery of my Ripmo AF a few days ago and can't wait to ride it. Looks great, the base model 21 spec with Deore and an Onyx is a bargain. Just can't wait to ride it properly!
I know you've ruled them out due to their ubiquity on your local trails though, and I get that. So 100% Sentinel.
In a similar boat and have been eyeing up the privateer. My riding is predominately winch and plummet steep natural stuff so it may suit me well but even I’m concerned about the weight! The sentinel wins for best looking bike I’ve seen in a long time too! Didn’t like the way the previous sentinel rode but tempted by this version if I can up my budget.
I will say the birds do look better in the flesh but I’m still not a fan of how they look!
The Transition would be my choice based on looks alone and it being a better all round bet, though in my world 150mm is long travel 🙂
@hobnob I think I bumped into you last weekend at the top of Dowies and you were with someone on a Bird? I agree, not the most eye catching!
Oh yeah, talking of aesthetics, the seat tube/pivot but on the Privateer is a f##king mess. I know they did it to improve post insertion, but zoinks.
Commencal Meta AM29 frame?
I like the sentinel however after having an alloy version I found it heavy and it blew through its travel fairly easy and bobbed quite a bit on the trails.
How about an Orbea Rallon. I've just bought one and find it too much bike for what I'm doing but for your riding it may be perfect.
I think the main issue is supply, rather than a UK specific issue. The bikes are in such high demand, Patrol’s are basically sold out and the new Scout/Sentinel/Spur are also very hard to get hold of unless shops have unsold stock from pre-orders they’re yet to receive.
Not convinced - they have always had too much stock & it was still an issue before. Just an unwillingness to carry spare parts (given the previous Sentinel carbon used to crack chainstays & seatstays for fun & the Patrol wasn't much better).
@hobnob I think I bumped into you last weekend at the top of Dowies and you were with someone on a Bird? I agree, not the most eye catching!
Possibly did - what was I on, can't even remember that far back!
One of your options is too heavy (in your judgement) and the other is not a "big travel 29er", so I'd suggest casting the net wider.
If you're really riding 90% uplifted trails then get a 180mm or 180mm frame, a "super enduro" or freeride frame if you will
I ride a Radon Swoop 29er and it would probably suit your needs, but I'd guess it's not cool enough for you? Can you afford the new Enduro?
Sentinel. I like what Privateer are doing, the theory behind it at least, but can’t help but feel the 161 is too much a short travel DH bike; too heavy and the seat tube is so damn steep the seated pedalling position on paper looks super short, too short to make it an all-rounder. As a winch and plummet new school freeride bike/enduro monster maybe, but as a do it all bike, the Sentinel is likely the better choice.
161 is the first bike I've not had to slam the seat all the way forward, the reactor I bought at the start of the year even had the seat clamp modified to get me further forward.
I prefer to be further forward on the bike, hate the feeling of falling off the back on climbs.
Privateer is silent, no squeeks or rattles, unlike my old enduro which needed constant cleaning and greasing. Heard that the new ones come fitted as standard with dry axles and creaks, good value is that. They've also got some great mud/stone traps on them. £3600 for a frame is quite comical, suppose it budgets for a 2nd one when the first fails.
As for the weight, mine is 34lbs, could probably drop a bit more off that with a set of lighter hubs. It climbs really well and hides its weight very well, some bikes ride like they've got lead boots on, Reactor and Stumpy Evo are good examples.
Oh yeah, talking of aesthetics, the seat tube/pivot but on the Privateer is a f##king mess. I know they did it to improve post insertion, but zoinks.
Its not the most flattering of pictures, they have managed to keep the top tube and seat stay angle the same, which maketh a bike, the latest bird is a mess.
Commencal Meta AM29 frame?
Proper boat anchor that, mate has one and it goes pretty well, its 37lbs though. Got it properly setup with TF with some tinkering in the shock and fork.
And on the last point, they will all be good bikes, so long as you fit a well setup suspension to them, proper tyres and a good build kit. If it comes with a super deluxe, then I'd be budgeting for it to be sent off and tuned, or binning it and fitting something like an X2/Storia.
Can you afford the new Enduro?
They don't come much bigger, 170/170 as standard. You can take the spacer out of the rear shock & it's ~190mm of travel - the frame is also dual crown rated, so you could literally have a DH bike & an big enduro bike all in one.
For such a big bike, it's remarkably docile too. Can be a plow machine, or set up to be lively & fun. Just grease the main pivot before you ride it...
VFM is not exactly Specialized's forte at 'retail' however.
Canyon Strive Carbon? I bought a 2020 CF 7.0 for Enduro riding in Madeira and it is like a magic carpet on the downs, while pedaling really well on the ups.
Big bike though and pretty bulky... could drop a big chunk with lighter wheels etc.
Also have a Transition Smuggler Carbon which I just love to bits.. Have you thought about bumping up the front travel on the Smuggler a little bit and then fitting a piggy-back rear shock... a 'one bike does all'.
@Hob Nob a very stealth High Tower I think, though could be wrong, probably wasn't even you! I was on a blue FlareMAX.
Back to the topic in question, the 161 is much better looking in the metal, I saw one for the first time last weekend and was surprised.
I ride a Radon Swoop 29er and it would probably suit your needs, but I’d guess it’s not cool enough for you? Can you afford the new Enduro?
This is ours getting it's daily exercise. It's done 5 weeks of this under eldest_oab, only damage had be l been a couple of crashes.
I like the sentinel however after having an alloy version I found it heavy and it blew through its travel fairly easy and bobbed quite a bit on the trails.
That's the v1. v2 has a revised leverage curve and is by all accounts much better.
Another AM9 recommendation here.
Really durable, top warranty, pedals really really well and can be made into a DH monster with a 170mm fork, coil shock and RRR link.
Evil Wreckoning V3 ticks all your boxes. Plus has stellar customer service. Crash replacement is £500 per end too, so really reasonable if you mess up riding park.
You can take the spacer out of the rear shock & it’s ~190mm of travel
Didn't know that. Do you have any more info or resources, just out of curiosity?
I'd most likely have one, if it were someone else's money - but my Radon is a perfectly good poor man's substitute.
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2665209/
Frame build only and spec it as you want it. Mines brilliant 160 front and back and backed by a lifetime warranty, whats not to like
thanks all, i'm leaning towards a sentinel... although @chakaping i seem to have rubbed you up the wrong way. 40lbs i quite heavy, is it not? nothing to do with cool, hadn't thought of Radon, although I have heard things about poor build quality. Are they available frame only? (edit, no bottle mount...)
Enduro looks great but is insane money, megatower ... i'm not really sure what it is for, geo is a little conservative. The wreckoning is 3600 euro frame only and out of stock
My smuggler is already overforked at 150mm with a coil. it's awesome, very capable bike, but fancy a change and some more travel.
although @chakaping i seem to have rubbed you up the wrong way. 40lbs i quite heavy, is it not
I know somebody who had a Privateer and does huge rides on it with loads of climbing - almost twice as much as one of my big days (which are not small).
My comment about your judgement of the weight was purely intended as factual, because my acquaintance would certainly disagree. Whereas I'd side with you that they are too heavy (for me).
The "not cool enough" bit, OK you've not rubbed me up the wrong way at all but I may have formed the impression that you're not interested in budget brands.
The Swoop AL takes a bottle cage (and a full size one), but you have to buy the full bike (mine was about £2k with a Lyrik RC2) and swap over the bits you don't wanna keep.
Didn’t know that. Do you have any more info or resources, just out of curiosity?
They are a standard 205 metric trunnion i2i shock, with a normal 60mm stroke. As with most suspension manufacturers, they effectively make them all 205x65 & then reduce the stroke, internally via spacers, or externally with the same means.
You can run a 65mm stroke shock on the Enduro as there is a massive amount of clearance (think you could almost run a 70mm stroke, there is that much space - if you could get someone to make it).
65mm stroke equals ~190mm wheel travel. If 29" dual crown forks wern't so expensive, i'd definitely give it go.
I’m leaning towards a sentinel as well but been told it’s nearly impossible to find one in the uk right now!
Cheers HobNob, every day is a school day.
I am still on imperial shocks, for my sins.
While I find my 170mm/170mm bike more than adequate most of the time, I'd be totally open to the idea of 180mm or even 190mm rear travel on a bike that gets pedalled around.
At the moment it's probably the Lyrik that's the weak link though, if I was being picky. There are situations where it could do with a bit more authority in the front.
My mate has a sentinel, i would say its maybe a bit "trail" for what you are talking about.
Deviate are about to bring out a bike called the Claymore. Its based around thier 160/140mm "trail" bike the highlander but with more travel. The highlander was ridiculous downhill, way more competent than my Nomad was with 20mm less travel, the Claymore will be a proper monster. Wont be cheap (6kish for an ok build) but I reckon it will be exactly what you want, the high pivot point makes smashing stuff downhill a breeze.
The Highlander getting some.
Rallon
170/160
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i rode loads of bikes. i rode a pivot firebird 2yrs ago and wanted one ever since. I bought one 2 weeks ago and its incredible
Oh yes a pivot Firebird. Well tasty but alas serious money. @renton that looks grand. Frame only? Although how can I trust someone who doesn’t match their valves and logos.
I demoed a Rallon and Sentinal before I went for the Megatower . The Rallon was a rattly beast and the Sentinal heavy as fudge and blew through its travel and a bit of a pig going up. Im happy spending all day in the saddle of my Mega and a quick chip change and its at 64o head angle for park days. Just the stigma of maybe owning an Audi/T5 and being a dentist might put some people off
Out of the 2 you suggest, it would be the Sentinal for me, the new range of Transition's just look right.
Another option that might be worth a look is the new Last Coal 29er, I have the 1st gen Glen and I have been really impressed with it, certainly when compared to my Smuggler I had before (similarly built to yours except the coil)
@stevedoc i’m guessing you tested the v1 sentinel? @Bigmantrials cheers good shout. 2 year warranty on the frame though
What about v.1 sentinel with cascade link? Meant to give it the same progression as the v.2 frame. Think the v.2 might be a touch lighter though?
Yes howsyourdad
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-transitions-new-sentinel-v2-2020.html incase you missed it
V1 sentinel with a cc link here.
It’s much better with the link than stock.
I’d of thought based on the op that it’d be difficult to look past the privateer or maybe a raaw Madonna?
The choices seem a bit limited here, if you are 90% bike park (and uplifting), then i'd say the privateer is the one, it's heavy, but that's not a bad thing if you're hitting downhill runs every weekend.
The sentinel is more trail, i'm guessing transition will be doing something soon, the patrol is up for a refresh and may get a 29" option i'd guess, if they've kept the biggest 29er as 150mm rear then i'd bet they're looking at the 29 enduro in the next few months, i've got the patrol just now and love it, but it does suffer uphill with the way i have the shock set up, it's a horst link thing though, all transitions suffer a bit, unless you get a lockout on the shock!
Is there any other options though, if i was going for a 29" enduro frame i'd be all over the evil wreckoning, looks great and always here positive reviews, but there's not many bad frames around, there's so many to demo and play with.
There's a Pivot Firebird in the classifieds that really hasn't done anything. I reckon I was there on just about every outing it had, which weren't many. Represents a huge saving for someone.
I'm thinking I may wait. With Covid loads of stuff is unavailable.
Another factor here is that riding season has only a couple of months left really, max three. The lifts are now only open long weekends and shut entirely in October, then the snow comes around November time and the bike goes into storage until early may. The earliest I could get a Sentinel is apparently October, and the Privateer is mid sept. i can always defer my deposit on that until may.
There are a couple of rumours of a longer travel 29er from transition, plus longer travel forbiddens and high pivot Norco!
I appreciate all the help, any other suggestions are more than welcome!
ooh
Ooh that is right nice looking!
The Last Tarvo is a really good looking bike