[Closed] Riding DH clipped in..

Any shoes and pedals... Most serious top dh riders go clipped.
Something like a platform pedal with pins like a Mallet or Mallet dh and shoes like 5 10 minaars or teva pivots give you a bit of flat life with proper pedals.

I've been riding HT all my life and up until last year I was a flatty person. Since I eventually decided to give clipless a try I found I like them when the going gets rough: my feet stay on. However, definitely flats or fully-commit on clipless for when it get's sloppy.

The OP's question is more:

My feet are getting thrown off my pedals when riding, I'm using flats. What could be the cause? and what are my options?

Well,

You're probably not using the right foot technique - which will keep your feet on the pedals, so I'd recommend looking at that first.

Next, would be your shoes, and your pedals.

5:10s have incredibly sticky rubber, far far stickier than walking shoes.

Pedals with grub screws / threaded pins are far stickier again than flat pins.

If you've been riding flats, then I'd be looking to improve that experience - rather than jumping into clipless with not quite the right techqinue. You'll be covering u pa problem, rather than addressing it 🙂

I recently tried clipless on my SS, really didn't get on with them. More so on loose techy climbs, wheel spins out and I struggled to get my foot out quick enough.

Horses for courses but I'm definitely a flat pedal guy.

Any shoes and pedals... Most serious top dh riders go clipped.

And usually ride a DH bike with rear suspension and all.

I ride DH on my hardtail and despite being 40+ it's fine. In fact it's more than fine, it's bloody great fun. My feet rarely come off (less than on my FS) so getting fancy shoes may only mask the issue. I use half decent pedals and general skate/bike shoes (with stiff soles) and there's plenty of grip so i'd say it's a technique issue. Try going slower and work on technique until you find something that works for you, then back to warp factor 10 😀

Wasn't there an article somewhere recently that stated the top few in the UCI DH rode flats?

(Don't quote me on that)

Anyway, ride what you're comfortable in. People ride world cup DH courses on flats so it's not the limitation of flats that's holding you back.

If it makes you feel any better comming off a MTB clipped in isn't like having a comedy moment at traffic lights where you can't get out, I've always found that being separated from my bike whilst riding clipped in occurs naturally usually at speed, I've had quite a few offs over the years and have never ridden confidently on flats as my feet also get spat off the pedals resulting in an un confident approach to jumps and obstacles etc,

I found that approaching stuff where my feet were in relation to my pedals was one too many things to think about and now I never think about it ? If that makes any sense,
If you are used to being clipped in it will be like a duck to water for you and it will inspire more confidence,

Wasn't there an article somewhere recently that stated the top few in the UCI DH rode flats?

plyphon - Member
Wasn't there an article somewhere recently that stated the top few in the UCI DH rode flats?

Wouldn't think so. The vast majority clip-in, Sam Hill being the obvious exception

rickon - Member
The OP's question is more:

My feet are getting thrown off my pedals when riding, I'm using flats. What could be the cause? and what are my options?

Partly true, although it does only happen on the limit....normal XC type pootle is fine, coming down reasonably steep stuff is fine even with the saddle up, steeper still but with the saddle down is good too....but when i really want to let go of the brakes and let the fork/bike do its work things just get so fast and loose at the back that i lose a foot occasionally....it never used to happen on my FS.

I'd like to get back into racing next year and would dearly love to pitch up at some DH and Enduro races with my hardtail but i cant get that last few mph of speed down a hill due to having to hold myself back because of this issue....i'm sure it is a technique thing but i think i'm doing what every article i've read tells me to do...soft soled shoes, thru pin pedals, heels down, legs bent, weight back etc etc....

Sam Hill always wears flats doesn't he? and won the last world cup race?
Not that it really matters to us.

I ride flats, couldn't get on with spd's, took some of the fun out of riding for me, and I kept coming off.

Look at your technique, keep your heels down and you shouldn't really come off. 5:10's will certainly help, it actually felt like been clipped in going from skate shoes to 5:10's.

I thought this myself recently when I switched to a hardtail again. Slapped some clipless pedals on I had in the garage, minced about for an hour, then put the flatties back on as soon as I got home.

My technique is getting better, you really have to force your heels down, especially the back foot.

I only switched to flats for a trip too scotland n all, but I ride soo much faster with them I'm not going back to spd's for a while

real men ride clipped*

* a wise MTB guide in Morzine once told me

I'd definitely get your technique sorted before trying clips, dropping your heels in the rough helps massively. I race dh on my hardtail clipped in but I also mix it up with time on my flats to avoid getting into any bad habits. Flats for fun, clips for racing for me - on both my bouncy bike and the hardtail.
Despite hating the majority of crank bros disappointing products I can honestly say I can't fault my mallet dh pedals, really good pedals. I use these with either shimano am shoes or five ten hellcats. Both shoes work well with the pedals.
For flats I'm on dmr vaults and five ten impacts or freeriders.

You're probably not using the right foot technique - which will keep your feet on the pedals, so I'd recommend looking at that first.

This always makes me laugh. I ride fully rigid and hitting a rock garden at full chat can well result in your feet moving around on flats. It's why I ride spds. I'll show you around my local spots if you like rickon.

OP - I find the problem isn't really unclipping. Adrenalin will take care of that. Getting hooked back in if you unclip accidentally is an issue as you can't sit down as easily on a hard tail. I run XT cranked right up and try not to come out. I think a cage would be useful sometimes.

Could platform SPDs with multi-release cleats be a solution: clipping you in enough to stop your feet being shaken off, but easy to dab with?

Wasn't there an article somewhere recently that stated the top few in the UCI DH rode flats?

There was a Pinkbike article talking about how only one WC winner in x years had been on flats (Sam Hill), but it neglected to say that only about 4 people had won a world cup within the period at all. So whilst they are pretty dominant, although AFAIK there's a bit of a swing back t'other way, clips aren't quite as ubiquitous as the article perhaps implied.

Wasn't there an article somewhere recently that stated the top few in the UCI DH rode flats?

Do you mean [url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/The-World-Cup-Downhill-Signals-the-End-of-Flat-Pedals.html ]this PinkBike one[/url]? Is interesting to see how it's changes in bike geometry that are probably driving the change in riding style and the migration from flats at that level.

Though what WC DH racers ride is probably of little relevance to most of us on here!

tell you what fourbanger, come see my trails and while you are here i will give you some technique pointers

#mydadsbiggerthanyourdad

What is the secret to keeping your feet on the pedals then?

And where are your feet supposed to be? I tried the midfoot pedal position but I seem to have a tendency to band my foot on the ground when pedalling uphill on rolling trails.

Look at your technique, keep your heels down and you shouldn't really come off

All well and good but you could liken this to the smash technique also!

Riding SPD's off road is harder than flats, however the benefits are massive. Think of it as having an extra set of hands, you can ride lighter, position the bike, pedal more efficiently etc etc.

It will take longer to master than flats and yes you will have some offs on the way, however once mastered you wont even think about unclipping, it will happen as fast as getting your foot off a flat pedal, but it also shouldnt need to come off as much either.

The one thing id miss is the floating technique, where you can lift your heels and float over things when it wets rough, its hard to describe but you can unweight the bike rather than smash through things meaning you are far less likely to have an off or get a puncture and its faster.

Each to their own in the end but its easier to give up than persevere, however the benefits are massive

What is the secret to keeping your feet on the pedals then?

And where are your feet supposed to be? I tried the midfoot pedal position but I seem to have a tendency to band my foot on the ground when pedalling uphill on rolling trails.

On the descents (sorry, not what you asked for) it's supposed to be feet midway & with dipped ankles but that's fine if you like to ride-through sections like you're riding the section out (i.e. soaking it all in with your legs) with the weight toward the rear. If you like to ride in aggressive stance (weight low & over the bars), flick about, stay loose, hop over/into stuff I find that type of feet-positioning awkward.

edit: bland expressed my thoughts better

For dh the options are quite good

Mallets have a good platform but any trail type SPD with a platform for extra support works well

And there are loads of decent dh shoes, 661 filters, shimano am45, giro chamber, 510 minaars, specialised have a new dh shoe out too, plus magic alpines xl and other enduro styl shoes are a less bulky option

I'd consider flats for really steep muddy dh tracks but its not really any harder to disengage from clipless pedals its more about confidence of being able to dab quickly and then get your feet back on asap
Spd for dh does take some getting used to but you get extra control and you are less likely to get your feet bounced off on the really rough stuff. Imho

bland - Member

Riding SPD's off road is harder than flats

Not convinced tbh, to start with sure as there's more initial skills you need, but the skills to keep good footing on flats on rougher/harder stuff are maybe harder. SPDs let you get by with a lot of bad tecnique, flats scar you if you try that. But then flats can make it easier to push your limits which is useful for learning

Both have a lot to teach I reckon but overall SPDs seem to make it easier to go fast.

I can see the benefits of spd's for speed and efficiency, but I couldn't get on with them, and I wasn't enjoying my rides trying to get used to them, so they aren't for me.

You want your weight centred not back and try to keep relaxed. When you say you are having difficulty unclipping sounds like you have some things to sort out as once you get used to it unclipping should be something you don't have to think about. It is getting clipped in while getting pinged about on rocks thats the problem. I ride both flats and clips. I prefer clips for general riding and flats when I know I may want to manually abandon a manouver. This is different from a move that needs comitment like a steep rooty gulley as in these cases you can't abadon ship without falling off anyway. I like my time pedals. Proper pedal technique is important to both. I was having difficulty jumping and uncipping. Heals down, weight centred and a bit of weight pressed forward into the pedals sorted it out.

Crank Brothers Mallet DH pedals and Five Ten Maltese Falcon LT shoes is working for me. I can only liken it to being clipped into a flat pedal- so lots of support. I was on XT pedals with the tension cranked up and XC style shoes before and this is different, but still good. With the XTs I was using the tension to keep me clipped in, while with the Mallets I'm using the grub screws.

I made the move to clips from flats for those sections where it's rough and only slightly downhill, so you need to pedal but can't on flats. But by moving to clips you gain far more than that. The ability to unweight the bike quickly and easily is so useful.

It took me a month to remember to clip out when stopping all the time but about 6 months to get to the point where it didn't matter if I needed to dab on a corner or I stalled on a climb, because I knew I could get out dead easily. So stick with it and reap the benefits. Clips is definitely the way forward, but especially so on a hardtail.

shimano spds have adjustable tension so probably best to start there - you can wind them out so they release with a very slight twist of the foot. Also there is less float than other options which makes it easier to release when you need to.

It's also worth checking if any part of the sole of your shoe is going to get in the way of releasing. On new shoes in particular the treat can get in the way. clip the shoe into the pedal (without your foot in it) and twist it while its upside down so you can check which bits of the tread get in the way. Then cut the offending bits of tread away until you can move the shoe freely.

If that doesn't work:
- you're not doing it right
- my trails are harder than yours
- Skoda Octavia

unclipping should be something you don't have to think about. It is getting clipped in while getting pinged about on rocks thats the problem.

You want your weight centred not back and try to keep relaxed

^^ This.

And you don't want your knees too bent, you want to push your weight down through the bike.

I ride fully rigid and hitting a rock garden at full chat can well result in your feet moving around on flats. It's why I ride spds. I'll show you around my local spots if you like rickon.

Sounds fun, what's local?

The bit about heels down is kind of right, but if you watch top riders they don't keep their heels down all the time, they move their foot position around all the time.

Wearing SPDs will stop your feet coming off the pedals, but that force that is slapping your feet in the air will now go into bringing the backend of the bike up into the air too - as your feet drag the backend up.

You want grip throughout the bike, both feet off pedals and backend in the air are pretty undesirable.

I ride spds for everything and have never had a problem as I like the security over rough stuff...until recently when I did the downhill at Cwmcarn and was truly terrified - then I would love to have had flats on!

These DH and SPD conversations always get a bit silly. So what most of the worlds top DH riders are on SPDs. The worlds elite where you need to make every little gain possible, with SPDs, maybe 5s tops (i've made that up in my head, but it can't be much) down a 3.5-5 minute track, that's maybe a 2% gain.

2% makes a big difference at elite, does maybe 2% extra matter day to day?

Rickon, I'm in Heidelberg. 450m climb out back. Some ace trails here. Who knew. Having second thoughts about bringing the rigid SS out here though. Don't bring soobalias with you, he'll just slow us down.

Ah the eternal question flats or clip(less)s, there don't seem to be many who can switch comfortably between the two. Try both pick what suits you. Learning to hop with flats is probably worth doing (so you [i]have[/i] to learn the proper technique not just hoik up your feet) but I can't be doing with flats for "proper" riding.

I've always been happy with shimano so haven't experimented but from mags/online/friends shimano seem to be the standard to which others are compared and are cheap, just go elsewhere if you have special needs (lightweight, more float, erm...want more bling?)

Riding SPD's off road is harder than flats, however the benefits are massive. Think of it as having an extra set of hands, you can ride lighter, position the bike, pedal more efficiently etc etc.

Bollards. The difference is slight, at best. People don't go massively faster once they have got used to clipping in. The gains might be marginal, at best, or heaven forbid, you might not go any faster at all.

@fourbanger, Hello from Darmstadt.

I switched back to spd's on the downhill bike this year, mainly because of a lack of flexibility and a calf problem was causing problems with my technique, and spd's allowed me to get away with bad technique a bit more. But in reality I need to work on my flexibility anyway because either way I am riding with bad technique.

2% makes a big difference at elite, does maybe 2% extra matter day to day?

[img] [/img]

I swap between flats and clipless. Ridden clips for about 15years but decided to go back to flats recently and enjoy them but it took a bit of learning. You ride the bike slightly differently, but I wouldn't get into an argument about which is 'better'.

I wouldn't really say there was a best to unclip in a panic. It becomes second nature to unclip so when you fall or panic you just naturally twist without thinking about it. Having said that, it took me a long time to learn that. When riding flats I think I probably twist my foot when taking it off now.

To be honest, the biggest problem I find with clips is not the taking the foot off the pedal but putting it back on...

To be honest, the biggest problem I find with clips is not the taking the foot off the pedal but putting it back on...

YES! The trail pedals help though.

I've been riding clipless for about 2-3 years now since I started riding bikes seriously. Both on and off-road. I recently got a bike with flats just to mess about on.

I am not far off my downhill segment times on flats, but it doesn't feel as controlled and I can't help feeling like I've lost that control you get of the back end if you're on SPDs.

It just feels different, but I prefer SPDs. Maybe things will change once I learn to ride better.

i used to ride my dh bike clipped in.
shimano dx m646 pedals are really good.
i used specialized rockhopper comp boots before they died then switched to some shimano mt-50's
the boots are ugly so i never clean them
but i also use some shimano dx flat shoes with normal flat pedals

Switch between flats and SPDs quite a bit, don't really give it much thought. Trail HT and the AM (or whatever they are called these days) bike have flats, and the XC race bike has SPDs. Much prefer to be on flats when shredding the gnar 🙂 don't have problem with feet bouncing off, and more fun for foot out cornering! Only really want to be on SPDs when it's very pedally and racey.

I've been riding clipless for about 2-3 years now since I started riding bikes seriously

That's your problem, you know you'd have [b]fun[/b] riding on flats.

[img] [/img]

Probably been said before, but try not to worry about getting stuck in your SPDs, if your going down, i find you'll just rip your foot out of them no problem.

I once lost the front end on solid ice (on my slick tyred mtb), i mean it really went, fast! I unclipped both feet and jumped off the bike over the top tube, landing next to the bike, holding it in one free hand. I still have no idea how i did it, but I've found its very possible to get out of standard Shimano SPDs without thinking about it.

Christ, I'm more concerned now with what I should be doing with my feet ? All this heel down and lead foot forward seems more complicated than ballroom dancing, I've never really really given any thought any of this ?

As a general rule of thumb if things are any more complicated than a balloon pump I loose interest ?
I tend to hop on my bike and think about nothing ? That's the great thing about going out on my bike ? The only thing I generally tend to think about is getting past the person in front and not letting any one pass, as I drift off into lala land an occasional STRAVA athlete belts past and brings me out of my day dream, sometimes when it hurts I count in my head but now I'm going to have to think about all sorts ?

Who invented this footwork stuff ? Is it a new thing ? Am I getting old ?
Do people still ride their bikes for enjoyment or am I the only person not getting paid for riding their bike ?

I thought the hardest thing about riding a bike was countering gravity by doing an un natural lean into the fall to counter the weight ? Now I've got to worry about things I didn't even know existed ?

Riding my bikes great, over complicating it isn't so great.

So just ride your bike ?
You don't have to worry about any of that stuff if you don't want to ?
The above may have been statements or questions ?

Technique, Technique, Technique! Innit...

Flats or clips, heels down think about body position, steer with your whole torso, etc, etc...

Dare I say it, book some training to look specifically at the issue, if your happiest on flats stick with it and hone your technique... Constantly switching kit will not improve anything, especially if you end up scared of getting stuck in the clips, that's just replacing one issue with the opposite one, Shirley?

Footwork and technique doesn't complicate your riding. It's kind of the other way round- bad technique complicates everything, good technique makes things more controlled.

That's very true, but for the first few weeks of riding with proper technique it'll feel weird and wrong, and you'll probably be thinking about how to ride, as you don't have the right muscle memory.

You'll be surprised how much more you'll enjoy riding when you learn how to ride differently, and a bit better.

For me that's one of the most fun things about riding a bike, learning something new every ride. 🙂

I've only ever ridden with SPD's since they came out about the same time i started riding properly off road. Before that its was toeclips and straps! The feeling of not being clipped to the bike is as alien to me as it is to someone who is trying them for the first time. When i have tried flats i spent most of the ride worrying about where my feet where on the pedals. Horses for courses in the end, muscle memory and technique you choose!

I found a great compromise with XT Trail pedals, better than the smaller SPD's as you don't get that roll under your foot when trying to clip back in and they have a bigger target area. I had a pair of the caged 545's and felt like they were too much like a flat trying to be a SPD.

Skinnyboy. Exactly that, I struggle to manoeuvre both myself on the bike and the bike itself not only on the ground but in the air when not clipped in, i rode with toe clips and straps all through the 80's on road bikes and went straight to SPD's when they came out.

More than anything if I ride in flats I struggle to get the power down, pedaling with the pedal under my arch gives me massive cramp, pedaling with it under my arch results in foot spitting forward and then my heel ends up on the pedal and then that ends in big scrapes up the back of your calfs "which look good" but are shit !

Pedaling with it under the ball of my foot and knowing I'm fastened to the thing gives me more confidence than riding in flats, it's all down to the personal thing again.

More than anything if I ride in flats I struggle to get the power down, pedaling [b]with the pedal under my arch[/b] gives me massive cramp, pedaling with it under my arch results in foot spitting forward and then my heel ends up on the pedal

And you say you've been riding a long time 😉

If you ever decide to give flats another go, start with your feet in the same position as you would with SPDs. Roughly middle of ball over the centre of pedal. No more cramp and much more control.

Roughly middle of ball over the centre of pedal. No more cramp and much more control.

Yeah, but it doesn't stay there for long!

I ride spds but I never do my lace up tight 🙂

Euro, as curiousyellow states, it doesent stay there, I was making another one of my generalised sweeping statements by suggesting that I pedal with it under my Arch, I don't. It was just the half way point in my head between toes and heel.

If I ride clipped in its there, its simple. If I ride flats it's just something else to think about, the last thing on my mind whilst riding about is where my feet are in relation to the pedal, its kinda hard to explain other than if you have never pedalled in clips then it must appear daunting ? Well for me its the other way round.

The real issue with SPDs is getting clipped back in quickly in techy riding if you do need to get a foot out for a quick dab, especially in really muddy conditions where the cleat and pedal get packed with clag!