[Closed] Riding a full susser all through winter. How much does it cost you to maintain?

no more than a hardtail.

winter for me wears out chains, BBs, brake pads, clothes.

not much more than riding it normally unless you can't be arsed to clean it and ride thought hub deep mud and round salty roads all the time. Winter riding is about picking suitable route, head for the rocky stuff etc.

as above... no more than maintaining a hardtail

Agreed. I've just swapped the bearings on my turner 6 pack after 8 years. Not because they needed it but because I wanted to try the Push version. If that many Peak District winters can't kill them, I don't think anything will.

The only increased costs over a hardtail should be bearings and maybe a shock service and bushings.
On my trance the bearings last for a couple of years and cost about £20 to change and I'm probably on my 3rd set of top bushings in around 5 winters. I service the shock myself which costs barely anything.

SH suss frame of eBay to replace the HT?

Depends where you ride. After riding a full suss mainly in the Peaks through a winter, and the grinding paste-esque nature of the slop that you're constantly axle-deep in meant new bearings and pivots throughout, and a shock service. These ended up costing the same as a half-decent, second hand hard tail frame.

So thats what the money went on subsequently

Whatever it costs it's worth it. I used to have a blunt instrument hardtail for bad weather riding but all it did was encourage me to ride differently in poor conditions

Far better to plunge into winter on fs and ride through it. imo the small gains in maintenance on a ht are overwhelmed by the compromises in riding

Whatever it costs it's worth it. I used to have a blunt instrument hardtail for bad weather riding but all it did was encourage me to ride [s]differently [/s] properly in poor conditions

FTFY 😀

Thought that there was more damage with the bike on the rear mounted car rack in all the salt and road crap, than from trail use tbh.

Bearings are easy to replace, backs aren't 😉

As I suspected it is probably a false economy. I may have to improve my bike cleaning skills in winter though. Hardtail gets the chain cleaned, a bit of lube and then is chucked in the shed.

How good are you lot at cleaning your full sussers?

I rode FS all last winter, a set of pivots but other than that seemed about usual, was more fun too 🙂

Then I remembered my rear shock died this summer, could be coincidence, could have been brought on/accelerated by a winter of filth - dunno.

Rigid singlespeed with cheap steel transmission (and square taper BB), is probably the best winterproofing you can do, may not be your thing tho.

Mine is 8 years old and other than the odd paint chip, looks like new.

hose pipe, and some lube. It's not rocket science. In reality cleaning is a bit of a funny one, the problem occurs when the parts move generally, so anal cleaning the riding through slop might not be the best idea 🙂 As I said when winter comes avoid the slop ride the rocks.

Im actualy going the other way but to a frame that can run gears or ss selling up the fs for a hardtail
ss rigid in winter and gears and front sus for summer

Bearings are easy to replace, backs aren't

Despite loving riding hardtails, this is what my body is telling me. Back surgery in a few months and then I have to give up jumping on hardtails for good.

How good are you lot at cleaning your full sussers?

Life's too short for cleaning bikes. Who the hell wants to be sat in the back garden in the rain and the cold, after a night ride, with a bucket and a toothbrush, when you could be in the pub?

A hard tail and a can of chain lube is what you need to get through a winter

A hard tail and a can of chain lube is what you need to get through a winter

My Trance is starting its seventh winter of muddy gloop. Original suspension pivot bearings failed after two. Replacements still fine now. On its 4th top shock bush.
One cassette and two chains a year. Set of jockey wheels every other. Rear shock air can been serviced just once. Fork lowers get done twice a year .
My hardtails are for going to the pub on. 😉

I live in Scotland, winter's less hard on the bike because the mud freezes 😆

I probably spend £40-£50 on bearings for mine a year- generally one full set, and sometimes another set of horst link bearings as they're a bit wee and exposed. Which considering the amount I ride the thing and the amount of other consumables it needs, is pretty small. Less than I spend on chains frinstance, or haribo

[quote="binners"]Life's too short for cleaning bikes. Who the hell wants to be sat in the back garden in the rain and the cold, after a night ride, with a bucket and a toothbrush, when you could be in the pub?

A hard tail and a can of chain lube is what you need to get through [s]a winter[/s] life

Hose it down and spray the chain and gear gubbins with GT85 then into the house for a G&T/glass of red/cup of tea 😀

I think it varies with design

Something like the old Specialized FSR where the shock is set in the rear wheel spray could cause problems

But my experience so far is that its not an issue. On my Trek the pivots and shock don't seem to be in places that seem prone to spray or dirt accumulation

I do wonder if over cleaning does cause problems on some bike. I can't see a bit of dirt sitting on the outsideface of a bearing being a big deal. Better than that regular sprays of degreaser

The bits of a bike that seemed to be vulnerable to poor conditions are the fork stanchions and drive train. The rear shock on most frames stays way cleaner than he forks

Did everyone else enjoy the thread on here a while back about buying a £1500 hard tail frame to save the cost of pivot replacement

Did everyone else enjoy the thread on here a while back about buying a £1500 hard tail frame to save the cost of pivot replacement

Was it a Ti Cove ? 🙂

I never get the "winter bike" thing. If you clean your full sus properly, or better don't clean it so much, it'll last just the same as if it was summer all year.

I think people just don't like the hassle of cleaning what with all that extra complexity of a linkage or two and a shock 😉 . Though I'll give you some bikes have such a crap design that they suck in mud into the rear suspension. But again, don't clean it so much.

Still, could be worse. Could be your winter bike is a road bike. Because riding winter shitty condition pot-holed roads with salty spray behind traffic is great fun compared to the fear of getting a bike slightly muddy 😛

Drive train and brakes are the only things that actually benefit from cleaning. All your pivots, bearings and seals will actually suffer more from having water sprayed at them than having a layer of dried mud sticking to the outside of them.

That said my bike gets a hose if its really filthy as I don't like muddy bikes in the garage shedding crap everywhere.

If you enjoy riding a hardtail more than a full suss,how about giving a suspension seat a try after the op?
There must be loads of people on STW who could give you advice on the best one.
The others will try to sell you theirs!

My solution to winter is a rigid bike with hub gears, I'm of the reduce maintenance to as close to zero as possible. Chain gets the occasional wipe over and more cheap gearbox oil poured over it.

I think there's more diffrence between a hartail and rigid, than between FS and hardtail. In that the rigid has no shock/fork wear to worry about, whereas the hardtail still needs some fork care.

I'm with those who just try to ride harder surfaces, and I try and avoid/keep to a minimum axle deep mud-plugging and water splashes if possible. It wears the bike and the trails more that way. I don't get much joy from slithering down a muddy bridleway slowly, knowing all lube is being left behind and the trail messed up for longer.

Winter, Riding a bike in the winter!?!

WTF!

I never get the "winter bike" thing. If you clean your full sus properly, or better don't clean it so much, it'll last just the same as if it was summer all year.

It's very, very simple. If I told Mrs Daz that I was buying a new bike for no reason other than I want one, she'd tell me to sod off. If I tell her I need one to ride in the winter otherwise my extremely expensive super-bike will need £500 of maintenance in the spring she's much more receptive. The need-new-bike-to-preserve-better-bikes food chain is full-susser -> hardtail -> singlespeed hardtail.

I never get the "winter bike" thing. If you clean your full sus properly, or better don't clean it so much, it'll last just the same as if it was summer all year.

The main clue is in the name... It's a bike for riding in the winter, it could be a super complex bells 'n' whistles FS if you'd prefer but logically many of use try to keep things simple and low maintenance with a rigid SS...

I think people just don't like the hassle of cleaning what with all that extra complexity of a linkage or two and a shock. 😉

So you do actually get it after all?
Well done you... 😉

i've just put the full-suspension bike away for the winter.

mostly this means that it'll get a full strip-down, and rebuild, before spring - when i'll start the same process on the hardtail.

i don't necessarily do this to stop my expensive bike being ruined by winter, but mostly so that i'm forced to keep on top of maintenance - and i hope things will last longer as a result.

(certainly, it means my bikes work better, and i enjoy it)

and also, it means that i'm always enjoying the euphoria of the newly-converted, every spring/autumn i'm overjoyed to (re)discover just how much fun a hardtail*/FS bike is!

(*with cheap forks)

Life's too short for cleaning bikes. Who the hell wants to be sat in the back garden in the rain and the cold, after a night ride, with a bucket and a toothbrush

I always rather took this view. This year, I have discovered:

This massive bottle of Muck-Off:

[img] [/img]

Poured into this pressure-sprayer:

[img] [/img]

Then washed offwith this hose-brush attachment:

[img] [/img]

Total time for a half-decent clean-up is done to about 5 minutes, although it does use quite a lot of Muck-Off.

😀

i use two bikes and ride everyday coaching etc.. i rarely wash them, just clean drive and lube. makes them last a bit more but new drive every spring and autumn

My 2005 Marin Full Sus has only ever had one full rennovation on the rear end, and it's still going...admittedly it doesn't get used so much now.

My 2013 Giant Anthem 29er started getting wobbly after only a year. I did the bearing that was obviously shot, only to find the rest weren't that clever either, so I ended up doing the whole lot plus shock bushings.

The Marin is quite well sealed against the weather, the Giant isn't.

I'm pretty sold on 29ers, so I'm currently putting together a Hardtail 29er project to ride through the winter with.

cookeaa - Member

I never get the "winter bike" thing. If you clean your full sus properly, or better don't clean it so much, it'll last just the same as if it was summer all year.

The main clue is in the name... It's a bike for riding in the winter, it could be a super complex bells 'n' whistles FS if you'd prefer but logically many of use try to keep things simple and low maintenance with a rigid SS...

I think people just don't like the hassle of cleaning what with all that extra complexity of a linkage or two and a shock.

So you do actually get it after all?
Well done you...

Mountain bikes are made for riding in crud, and often where it's mountainous it's wet with it.

In terms of maintenance costs, it's very little different to if it's dry.

In terms of having to clean the bike, well MTFU and clean it, or don't clean it, whatever. It'll probably be just the same, just muddy looking.

My comment earlier was sarcastic and the point being it's virtually no extra hassle to clean a full sus vs a hard tail. So no I still don't get what the problem is with winter riding a full sus 😉

Now, a low maintenance bike such as a rigid SS, yeah fine. Makes no difference the weather, it's just a low maintenance bike all year round.

Muc off is one of those things i suspect destroys pivots

but I have no evidence for this

it just seems a bit too good to be true otherwise

Try DuckSmart mud remover its way better than muc off and doesn't strip the oils out your hands either and its frothy sprayer means you use less......makes cleaning quicker and easier.... That said my full suss has a little coating of Woburn Sands...sandy mud, the Cove Stiffee is shiny clean, the road bike, shiny clean, the SS, partially dismantled but clean and its replacement Boardman 29er winter general XC bike is covered in local mud from Monday and will stay like it until it rains on it when I'm out or stuff seizes up...chain lubed with MucOff C3.

I have changed one set of bearings I think in 7 winters on my 5, and one set of shock bushings. To clean it I jetwash it, takes 5 mins.

I don't think bikes are as fragile as you think they are.. or at least Oranges aren't 🙂

I've never really got Muc-Off. For me it didn't seem to shift the mud any better than a sponge and water.

Instead of selling my old FS I kept it and run it on as my winter bike. Second hand values are pretty poor. I use a karcher pressure hose. Cleans the bike in a couple minutes. Only use any detergent like muck off once every couple months. MTB is made for mud.

Cost in £ for me is balanced against the cost of not MTB' ing. Whatever keeps me enjoying my sport and fit is money well spent.

All your pivots, bearings and seals will actually suffer more from having water sprayed at them than having a layer of dried mud sticking to the outside of them

I've only replaced the horst links in my latest bike (bought april 2011) and never had to replace cartridge bearings in any other bike I've had. Same with hubs and pawls. Only cleaned and lubed them every year or so. I don't wash the bike after every ride with cleaning agents. I don't even rinse it after every ride. Even if a quality bike gets ridden through hub deep streams through winter, it still won't be anywhere near as destroying as taking a hose to it. A bike can handle spray from the trail, ridden through gloop in winter - it's the hosing down with the chemicals that kill them. The people that swear they don't do this (that I've watched with a hose) is comical. They spend hundred of pounds a year sorting stuff out all because they think having a sparkling 'mountain bike' is the way things should be done.

Fair enough. Keeps me in a job!

ime
the biggest benefit to riding rigid in the winter is that you cut through the sloppy mud better
bearings are usually ok, fork and shock seals are more prone to getting muddy water in them though

My fs is heavy enough in the dry, let alone with mud clogging tyres and pivots. You also tend to ride slower in the wet, plus take longer to clean, therefore I use my ht mainly.
I bought a ht originally for the winter, after changing bearings faff on my old fsr. I dunno if it costs much more, but I wouldn't go back to 1 fs.

When I used to ride my motorcycle through winter I would clean it on a dry autumn day, dry it off, then cover it in WD40, ACF50, GT85 etc etc.... Wouldn't touch it again until spring and they always came up like new.

Now I appreciate there are more complex linkages on some MTBs and having your wheels barely turn because of mud on the hubs, fork legs etc isn't ideal but I still adopt the same approach now.

The bike gets wiped down with WD40, the chain gets lubed and obvious caked on mud gets brushed off once dry....never had to replace BBs, bearings etc due to adverse weather, stuff like that lasts me years as it should.

Currently riding a dirt bike that gets the same treatment, I'm fastidious over the chain but everything else wears a coating of crap over the winter.... which isn't really doing any harm as it's sat on a protective layer of ACF50 and not on the bike itself.

Only thing I'd do differently with a FS is to maybe coat/cover/seal any bearings in copper grease over the winter then just wash it all of again in spring.

@Deviant- it turned out for mine that ACF50 + a nice inch thick crust of road filth is better corrosion protection than the factory paint 😆

Northwind, the most extreme example i saw was a bloke on a forum who would Waxoil his motobike (not including tyres and brakes obviously) at the start of winter and then not touch it until spring...it looked hideous covered in Waxoil and then even more hideous with a few months worth of road filth on top too....but it always came up like a showroom bike each spring!

I'm building up a Maestro-link Giant Trance currently and will be wiping it down with ACF50 during the build and then filling all the bearing recesses with copper grease...i reckon it'll be fine over winter.

I wore out a cassette and chain on my Orange over the winter, but I guess I would have done the same on a hardtail anyway. And TBH the cassette was pretty old anyway.

the biggest benefit to riding rigid in the winter is that you cut through the sloppy mud better

Winter is slow, fun bits are written off, rides are much more XC orientated, feels wasteful using a nice, capable FS for low speed XC, rather have a bike that's better for it that i also dont feel guilty about pointlessly ruining.

Yeah,
Use my summer race hardtail in winter.
Usually put a cheaper cassette and chain on and a set of carbon rigids.
More fun riding through the slop and gives you a different skill level on nite rides.
Obviously no good on your back though,espeacially if it's frozen!
I have used fs through the winter in the past with no issues.
The fs have been Turners though and the bushes have lasted for years!
Thanx,
Max

Depending on your bike:
- Bearings.
- Chain and cassette.
- Shifter cables.

So not a huge cost. Say £200-£250?

I'm on the rigid SS for everything except the 4-6 races I'll enter through the autumn/winter and another 4-6 rides where I need a bigger bike to have fun. Even then, I suspect an HT with more travel will be more than capable of handling it.

This year I'm riding the HT and the rigid solely. Hopefully will translate to being faster in the spring!

When it is really muddy I hose the worst of the mud off before putting the bike away, it takes 2 mins max as the tap is outside the garage door and I am wet and muddy anyway. I have often wondered if this is bad for the bike as I am potentially pushing mud into the bearings and linkages but if I don't do it, the dry mud is much harder to get off and clogs up the derailleurs.

This is obviously only if the bike is caked in thick nasty mud, slightly dirty just gets left until it needs it.

As far as washing goes, mine gets the hose when it's properly dirty- you know, when you can't see the frame. But no high pressure and I keep it away from bearings etc. But even after a wash, mine are still usually dirtier than most people's bikes 😆

deanfbm - Member
Winter is slow, fun bits are written off, rides are much more XC orientated

Only if you make it XC.

Nothing is written off by the winter, the trail just evolves, especially if it's not an all weather trail centre. I like the way trails change over seasons, and the challenges it presents.

It's loads of fun charging down hills in slop, though it's not wall to wall muddy bog anyway just because it's autumn or winter. Much of the time it's just a little more damp and it can add a bit of grip to loose trails and provide just the right amount of loam. Besides, a rooty messy downhill trail is way more fun on a full sus than a hard tail 😀

Personally I feel it's a waste of a bike to only ride it when it's sunny and dry. I have both hard tail and full sus and they get ridden equally all year round, both fun.

Warm water and a big brush with plastic bristles works wonders on my HT, and I suspect it'll work wonders on a FS when I get that too.

Occasionally I will use some foaming chain cleaner then relube. Squirt lube is really good at keeping the chain clean, though.

I don't even bother with GT85 anymore, just gets everywhere and adds time.

If your trails are too muddy, find some steeper ones, the water'll slide off (*)

(*not true, somehow bike trails are a special case that allows for vertical swamps)

Santa Cruz put it very well http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en/us/news/347

Bearings are shot on my Turner Flux DW after 2 winters but that is 1,000miles off road some of it real mud and grit fests. I've taken care of it and regreased via the Zerks but there's a lot of play now.

cruzcampo - Member
Santa Cruz put it very well http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en/us/news/347

Specifically this bit...

[i]Q: I'm lazy and lack motivation, what can I do to prolong bearing life?
A: [b]Stop washing your bike so much[/b]. We did some experiments with bikes that were washed a lot but ridden infrequently, bikes that were ridden a lot but washed infrequently, and bikes that were both washed and ridden a lot. Guess what? Your bike hates only being washed and not being ridden. This test group had the worst results. They became creaky and not much fun to be around, much like the people who own bikes like that. Don't get all angry (you know who you are), you can still wash your bike from time to time - and there are those times where it has to be done after every ride. Everything needs more attention during those times. BUT, maybe you should examine your priorities. It's a mountain bike. You can get dirt on it. It's OK.[/i]

😀

What really kills a bike in the winter is salt.

Mud is generally not a big deal. Most mud particles won't get past half decent seals without some encouragement (like from a pressure washer). Salt on the other hand will get into everything.

So if I've ridden on wet roads to my local trails during the winter I'll give the bike a rinse when I get back. For 100% off-road rides in the mud I just clean the chain (and maybe remove the biggest lumps of mud)

And as mentioned above, use Squirt on your chain.

Don't use a wet lube in mud. Wet lubes aren't as people think for riding in "the wet" they are a thick sticky wet formula lube for keeping heavy amounts of water off the chain. So if you ride rivers or on very wet and salty roads, ok. They are not for mud. The stuff sucks mud and grit into the chain and wears the whole drivechain fast. A dry lube (which is also intended for wet conditions) would be better. Better than that though is a wax like Squirt applied to a degreased chain which coats the rollers inside, lubricates, prevents wear and doesn't attract grit which wears down the rollers (which is what wears on a chain, not the links).

@deadkenny RE santa cruz link, thats the bit i was trying to copy and paste on me lunch lol!

I've started using Squirt, amazing stuff, didn't realise it was good for wet rides too until I read the bottle again. Went back to my all time fav Purple Extreme, and was shocked at how ruined the chain was after one mud fest ride. Back to the squirt now 😀

I doubt Santa Cruz know much about mud. "Dirt" is not mud. Dave Turner was of the opinion that we have the worst riding conditions for bearing life that he knows of.

Northwind - Member
Less than I spend on chains frinstance, or haribo

Get your chains from Wiggle and the haribo is sorted 😉

I doubt Santa Cruz know much about mud.

I buy my haribos by the trade box. The wee bags Wiggle send you are barely enough to get me out of the car.

I'm with deadkenny on this. Dry lube year round here. Still get through two chains a year though !

As another dodgy back sufferer on the thread, I find dry summer trails beat up my spine more than soggy winter trails.

That said I barely ride my fs these days. I'd like too but find I gel with my current ht (and previous ht come to that) more. But I guess that could be more to do with the bike / set up being wrong which is for another thread really.

mikewsmith - Member
I doubt Santa Cruz know much about mud.

Yes because a global bike manufacturer with two of it's top athletes from the UK does not even think about anything outside their own doorstep. Grease ports in the linkage is a great idea Free bearings - money where your mouth is stuff, no issues with mine despite putting it through a good winter.
Again winter for me is about avoiding the stupid deep boggy shit and riding good trails that are suited to the weather.

My VPP link has been hidden in mud recently on top and underneath, didn't even bother cleaning it off last year. When doing the 3 monthly grease pivots surprisingly very little rubbish came out.

I was thinking about buying a hardtail for winter. Then I realised that it'll cost me the thick end of a grand for one that gets anywhere near the quality and ride of my fs, and I could have a few years of top-notch servicing on the fs for that money. So it is, as has been suggested, a false economy.

Although I'm a mountain biker, so I'll probably buy one anyway.

This is after Saturdays ride, and a typical scene come winter...

I clean the stanchions down with silicone spray, lube the chain with Squirt (drive chain stays clean in comparison to the rest of the bike) and put the bike away. Every few months i'll regrease the VPP link with the greease gun and very little rubbish comes out, and i'll clean the entire bike down when it gets really bad. Don't find any issues with bearings/cost.

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i just jet wash my bike - I don't reckon it causes any problems to a static bearing that is covered by a bolt anyway

I've jet washed and not jet washed and still typically get a year out of a set of decent bearings - riding 1 to 3 times a week and going to the alps for a couple of weeks each year.

Obviously don't point it down your fork / shock seals and hold the trigger down for ages!

So to answer OP's question - cost of FS in the winter - probly about £20 extra - I guess the bearings would possibly last a few months more if only ridden in the dry.

@billodie what sort of mileage are you covering a year to need bearing replacements so often?

My Heckler only needed one set in 5 years.