[Closed] Riders who prefer riding hardtails? Gnar? I think not!

i love bikes. each to their own

I've got a feeling this is going to be a popular thread. Ride what you prefere oh and IMO hardtail riders are faster.

"KN*B" whoops did I say that out aloud! 😉

I do skids on ya mams face to make her prettier, proper gnar 8)

[img] [/img]

I love riding hardtails, cos I'm hard.

Dunno what your on about "doing more damage to the trail" on a full sus. Its still a ****ing mincing push bike that you have to rely on yor legs to power.

When I wanna do damage to the trails and just rip it up with lots of roost, I go out on my crosser. Thats what its made for.

I think your an idiot who cant afford a crosser so just minces round on his full susser, whilst wearing a full face helmet and making motorbike noises.

[img] [/img]

Jon Rambo is someones TROLL alter ego

Who is it?

I've got both, & enjoy riding both.
'jon rambo'
Says it all really. Dafter name than mine. You should be called 'jon troll'

I have not been able to work it out but he clearly is someones alter ego

TROLL HUNTER TO THE FORUM - BRING YOUR CROSBOW

Looks like a thumb to me.

[img] [/img]

my hardtail will get you pregnant as I overtake...

Considering the very high standard of trolling that we usually get on here, this is a total embarassment.

I'm not interested in riding fast enough to need a full suss. I also like peddling uphill, and need all the help I can get, so not loosing power to bobbing suspension is good.

I prefer hardtail with short travel fork. Feels more like a bike, efficient, light, east to maintain. I can feel the surface of the trail.

Have no interest in damaging the trail or myself. Gnar is for youngsters 🙂

Oh, and 1/10 for the trolling. Very transparent.

All Trolling aside (No i'm not Jon Troll Rambo!).

After a winter on my SummerSeason it left me wondering if i needed a FS.

I think the answer is i don't, but after a few rides on the Hemlock i'll be riding it all Summer! (or at least until i buy a Mega..)

I thought the point of FS was to flatter the rider into thinking they could ride off road?

i prefer a full suss

Spd's or Flats? 😉

+1

I thought the point of FS was to flatter the rider into thinking they could ride off road?

I always called rear sus a skill compensator myself...

Hardtails, less forgiving = more thrills at a lower speed.
Hardtails, line picking = more thought put into riding = more taken out

if I wanted to ride a smooth trail, I'd go along a fire road or get my road bike out.

I can't see the need for a full sus in the UK actually.

-1/10

my hardtail will get you pregnant as I overtake...

ha.
great sticker?

I can't see the need for a full sus in the UK actually.

What a ridiculous statement.

🙂 🙂

I can't see the need for a full sus in the UK actually.

You're a copy of MBR from 1999 and I claim my £5.

Full sus is excellent. It costs more, and you need a bouncy fork too, which costs more, and then they need maintenance for all your pivots and shocks, which costs more... And they get better every year so you need to replace them because last years will be slower.

... So I make more money.

I really don't know how I make any money out of you tight fisted one speed rigid guys. I've got kids and dogs to feed... Sort it out and get a susser. I wanna go to Hawaii.

Is what i have to say.

Will they be as fast as your average person on a susser, definitely. Are the world cup downhill speed, no.

Would it feel faster than world cup downhill speed, yes.

Mental Mickey - Member

I can't see the need for a full sus in the UK actually.

What a ridiculous statement.

i can see a need, there's a lot of riders who aren't good enough to ride a HT off road so they need a helping hand

this trolling is easy innit

Lame troll - next please.

RoCkEtd0G

"I can't ride down these steps on my hardtail"

[i]My hardtail brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge

I know you want it,
The thing that makes me,
What the guys go crazy for.
They lose their minds,
The way I wind,
I think its time

[Chorus x2]
La la-la la la,
Warm it up.
Lala-lalala,
The boys are waiting

My hardtail brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge

I can see youre on it,
You want me to teach thee
Techniques that freaks these boys,
It can't be bought,
Just know, thieves get caught,
Watch if your smart,

[Chorus x2]
La la-la la la,
Warm it up,
La la-la la la,
The boys are waiting,

My hardtail brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge

Oh, once you get involved,
Everyone will look this way-so,
You must maintain your charm,
Same time maintain your halo,
Just get the perfect blend,
Plus what you have within,
Then next his eyes are squint,
Then he's picked up your scent,

[Chorus x2]
Lala-lalala,
Warm it up,
Lala-lalala,
The boys are waiting,

My hardtail brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like
It's better than yours,
Damn right it's better than yours,
I can teach you,
But I have to charge[/i]

Counter troll:

"Gears and suspension are for old and frail riders"

Sort it out and get a susser. I wanna go to Hawaii.

Work colleagues are wondering why I'm laughing to myself.

Dunno, I’m certainly not super fast on My HT but I’m not too shabby when I want to get moving.

Did a quick loop of Whites a couple of weeks ago got to the head of the last section (Darkside) spot a couple of “Free-Gnarrists” having a chat; Full shinnies, Spanky helmets, one in a pressure suit (FFS) both astride £2-3K ~6” bouncers so I figure as I’m only on a gentle pootle on my 85mm Forked XC HT I’ll let them go first surely I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them?

Gave them 30 seconds or so, then caught the tail man inside of about 15 seconds, OK it’s the slightly pedally, slightly upwards incline bit at the start, He’ll soon rip away from me… Nah I was stuck behind this chuffing Mary the whole way down, the only feature on his bike he seemed familiar with was the brakes, Zero talent, should have bought a HT and learned to ride that first….

I have nothing against Bouncers, the advantages are pretty clear, but I really don’t think anyone absolutely [I]Needs[/I] one for plain old trail riding, I’ve owned DH bikes and I think they make sense for their intended Purpose, I’ve owned a couple of 6” “all rounders” and while I enjoyed them I’m actually happier now on my far simpler HT…

HT’s Rule! – FACT!!!

Far below Par Trollage, but it is Friday….

looks like a caught one!

crotchrocket - Member
RoCkEtd0G

"I can't ride down these steps on my hardtail"

i know, it would have been a walk in the park on a [s]sofa[/s] full suss, but i prefer a challenge rather than boredom

😉

[b]this trolling is easy innit

[/b]

I wish my hardtail was fast rolling. But the wheels aren't big enough.

so I figure as I’m only on a gentle pootle on my 85mm Forked XC HT I’ll let them go first surely I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them?

Gave them 30 seconds or so, then caught the tail man inside of about 15 seconds, OK it’s the slightly pedally, slightly upwards incline bit at the start, He’ll soon rip away from me… Nah I was stuck behind this chuffing Mary the whole way down, the only feature on his bike he seemed familiar with was the brakes, Zero talent, should have bought a HT and learned to ride that first….

Yeah, you were fast, but last time i was out on my rigid singlespeed ego chariot i was faster...!

Yeah, you were fast, but last time i was out on my rigid singlespeed ego chariot i was faster...!

Very likely, and only proves that the more "Hard" your Hardtail the Radder the Ride! 😉

cookeaa - just wondering if you were racing yourself on that lap do you think you could do it quicker on a hardtail or fullsuss (pick any fullsus you like).

What a pointless thread. Are you 12?

rOcKeTdOg - Member

i can see a need, there's a lot of riders who aren't good enough to ride a HT off road so they need a helping hand

I just think it's ridiculous to even mention the word 'need', we don't need a mountain bike full stop do we? Why isn't everyone snapping up CX bikes for general singletrack going by that theory? I remember a CX rider on this forum posting a few vids of himself riding at trail centre and overtaking all of the gnarly knee pads warriors in his way, he was doing all the small jumps and drops off's too if I remember correctly, a point in case methinks.

My own experience (as I own both types) are thus.
The hardtail experience definitely feels more connected in a sense, other than the obvious that it's easier to climb big hills and such like, what I like about hardtails is that to me, they feel more 'predictable', that's the key part about them IMHO, because of this, I feel strangely more confident over jumps and drop off's because with a full susser, there can be some kick backs, unexpected bouncing about (even with the correct sag) that can throw you off kilter.

I think there is a slight myth that full sussers make it all so easy, you still have to apply the same techniques on rough trails, the shock just makes it more comfy, but an armchair in ain't. Yeah sure, you can get a nice and easy experience while sitting down over easy terrain, stuff that you would feel more sitting on a HT, but if you wish to ride some decent techy singletrack properly, you still have to stand up on the descents and also make the decision to do the same on flat terrain that is constant up, down, up, down and repeat and repeat.

I remember seeing a guy trying to ride the kind of up, down, up, down bumpy trails described while seated on his full susser, he was struggling badly and going pretty slow, described the feeling as making himself feel seasick, I think that says it all.

If anyone thinks full sussers are nothing more that a comfy armchair that anyone with zero knowledge and skill can use, then I challenge you to make a video to prove me wrong, you will ride the whole of the Fort William DH circuit while seated, you will not stand up at any point and you will ride as fast as you can, helmets optional, depending on how confident you are. 😉

I've done the whole full suss thing but just found it a bit lame. Makes all the trails really easy and doesn't leave much for the rider to do. The sense fo satisfaction I get blasting past people who are riding FS whilst I'm on my Ti hardtail is enormous. If they've got body armour on it's even better.

So if you hear someone bellowing 'RIIIIIDERRRR' at you this weekend, be sure to get the hell out the way... ASAP!! Thankyou.

Yeah. At the beginning the crusade for speed via tech was noble.
Flexstem. rockshox RS1. All rubbish by todays standards but the intent was honourable and they really made a difference.

Suspension is now so developed that it minimises rider input and sensation.

But now.... It's like driving a hummer to tesco, in body armour, to buy a "glee" DVD and flavoured condoms because you like the way they taste.

Hardtails are for people who ride such boring trails they need to be made more exciting by riding an 19th century bone shaker. FS are faster, make you a better rider and to ride one you don't have to wear sandals or have a beard. And they can be picked up cheap from people who have followed the latest fashion and bought a shonky long travel bone shaker excitement compensator.

But now.... It's like driving a hummer to tesco, in body armour, to buy a "glee" DVD and flavoured condoms because you like the way they taste.

LOL

FS are faster, make you a better rider and to ride one you don't have to wear sandals or have a beard. And they can be picked up cheap from people who have followed the latest fashion and bought a shonky long travel bone shaker excitement compensator.

translation= i bought into the whole FS is better con and i'm desperately trying to justify the expense and constant maintenance

HTH

Going slower and getting beaten about on a HT is not the same as going much faster on a FS. Definitely not. And I speak from experience.

Makes all the trails really easy

The point is to ride then faster Yeti. Don't blame the bike if you don't know what to do with it 🙂

what I like about hardtails is that to me, they feel more 'predictable', that's the key part about them IMHO, because of this, I feel strangely more confident

Actually you have a point here. A sus fork on a HT is enough to keep my vision clear while leg/brain-controlled damping is doing all the work, grip feels more predictable. On smoother, twistier trails, my HT is just so responsive to body-English and pedal kicks, it inspires confidence and is addictive.

Where the FS really excels is on long, fast, rough, grip-challenging descents, where on a HT my legs tire and cant keep up with the trail, and I get that desperate feeling of being bounced off. FS is also faster on rough flats because I can sit and better maintain pedaling effort.

Horses (bikes) for courses.

For me, FS excels whenever it's rocky. You can go fast enough to enjoy the twists and turns, even if it's rocky, instead of being battered.

FS can also be better on rocky climbs. When I had a HT there were plenty of loose rocky bits I could clear on the FS but not on the HT.

FS are faster, make you a better rider

No you're still the same rider.

Practice, makes you a better rider not the bike.

even though obvious troll is obvious, i must say... successful troll is successful!

good work squire!

@Jon Rambo

What do u think of people who prefer riding hardtails? Me personally think they cant ride fast enough to appreciate a full suss or perhaps are'nt riding super tech trails, but this is just my opinion, i prefer a full suss, more comfortable and i feel i can do more damage to the trail, proper gnar!

Me personally think people who ride full suss have cr@p skills so can't handle a hardtail or perhaps are riding trails that they can't do without suss assistance, but this is just my opinion, i prefer a hardtail, more skill and ability required which makes me a better rider

Or maybe that's all lies.
Either way, both opinions are stupid and irrelevant.

such an obvious troll, didn't think anyone would be dumb enough to reply!

oh wait i forgot where i was...

It's Friday - troll knows his thread would not get attention on another day of the week.

But who is it?

could it be? [img] [/img]

a decent suspension seatpost on a hardtail will stop you getting beaten up by the trail.

then the only issue is to get a frame where it has some compliance in the rear stays so it doesn't buck you around too much. Good steel maybe.

The OnOne ti456 is suppossed to have a rear end like this.

My flux is a nicer rider than the HT and climbs better, but probably wasn't worth the cost differential - my satmap was a better buy.

maintenance on the flux is only a little more than the HT though - bushings rule 🙂

a decent suspension seatpost on a hardtail will stop you getting beaten up by the trail.

Only if you are sat in the saddle like a sack of spuds.

Only if you are sat in the saddle like a sack of spuds.

No-one sits when free-wheeling whether they are riding a FS or HT, do they?

TurnerGuy's point is that by sitting more, you can better maintain pedaling effort because your feet are not holding you up - the reason why short-travel FS can be faster and less tiring than a lighter HT. But a good suspension seat post could also help with this.

Did a quick loop of Whites a couple of weeks ago got to the head of the last section (Darkside) spot a couple of “Free-Gnarrists” having a chat; Full shinnies, Spanky helmets, one in a pressure suit (FFS) both astride £2-3K ~6” bouncers so I figure as I’m only on a gentle pootle on my 85mm Forked XC HT I’ll let them go first surely I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them?

Gave them 30 seconds or so, then caught the tail man inside of about 15 seconds, OK it’s the slightly pedally, slightly upwards incline bit at the start, He’ll soon rip away from me… Nah I was stuck behind this chuffing Mary the whole way down, the only feature on his bike he seemed familiar with was the brakes, Zero talent, should have bought a HT and learned to ride that first….

I have nothing against Bouncers, the advantages are pretty clear, but I really don’t think anyone absolutely Needs one for plain old trail riding, I’ve owned DH bikes and I think they make sense for their intended Purpose, I’ve owned a couple of 6” “all rounders” and while I enjoyed them I’m actually happier now on my far simpler HT…

Personally, I flow and refuse to use brakes. Whilst carrying 15 litres of homebrew on my head.

Jon Rambo = Swampthing from yesteryear Classifieds fame. or a strange coincidence!

Only if you are sat in the saddle like a sack of spuds

and the suspension seatposts you have tried are??

As buzz says your pedalling stroke is not now interrupted by the saddle kicking you in the arse all the time, so you can maintain spinning.

The only problem is, if you use a telescopic post, you need to have your saddle fairly centrally positioned so your weight is directed down the post and not across it.

I don't know about hard tails but I'm sporting an enormous hard on right now AM I RIGHT GUYS?

Hard tails ,soft tails ..whatever 🙄
The thing to have now is...
[url= http://www.gizmag.com/roundtail-bike-replaces-rear-triangle-with-rings/18388/ ]Round tail[/url] 🙂

I always seem to ride at roughly the same pace whether I'm on a hardtail, fs or ss, bike doesn't change what speed I ride at.

Kev

I'm awaiting a new FS frame so they obviously must rule

Correct answer is both right?

Ride HT for a bit, think wow this is great, so pure, I'm free, shall I clean it, shall I f...

Then I get on the FS, think wow this is great, so comfy, so fast, this is literally the fastets I've ever ridden, screw you luddities, shall I clean it, best do I spose.

Repeat.

phil.w - Member
cookeaa - just wondering if you were racing yourself on that lap do you think you could do it quicker on a hardtail or fullsuss (pick any fullsus you like).

Actually an interesting spin off question you pose there...

Using Whites as the basic Trail-warriors benchmark is't a bad idea it's a good short loop with a mixture of terrain and trail types...

I think you can loose a good chunk of time and energy on the climb if you've got an over-slack proper mare of a bike (HT or FS) to climb on, a bit of controlled rear bounce might help with climbing traction at the start, but it smooths out later and I think overall a HT will get up the climb slightly faster, and you probably don't need more than about 4-5" of travel on a fork for the descents and there's nothing to really buck you about too much if you are on a HT or shorter travel FS just comes down to holding that stress position...

A sensible 4" forked HT is perfectly adequate, but i think you would be marginally quicker on the down section on a suitably equiped "shorter travel" FS, say a Crush or a Yeti 4x maybe a Meta 4.
6"+ really is overkill for what is a pretty tame loop, not sure even the default Orange 5 is really necessary but it would cetainly do the job in comfort...

Having said all of that it's not just a case of "What bike is bestest" Available funds and maintenance time do actually play a big part as well, and there the HT wins hands down, I might be 10 minutes faster on a fancy bollocks FS, but I'd spend less time riding overall, as I'd have to spend alot longer in the garrage...

Thus HT wins for me...

I like FS,I've got 3-short/med & longish travel - they're great,
& 3 h/tails,one of which is ss & rigid -they're great
& a rigid s/s 29er - it's great

Wish someone had told me you can only have one type before I started having fun on all of them.... 8)

Full suss makes a real difference over your standard 26" hardtail. It allows you to roll over stuff much better. I still stand by this.

I am very disappointed that no one has yet pointed out that the next evolutionary step is bigger (by which i mean 29er) wheels! This allows you back on to a simple hard tail but still lets you keep pace with or indeed pass 26er full suss XC bikes.

As for the muppets on here who reckon that riding difficult trails requires a full susser thats just rubbish! You can ride any trail on any bike. It may be slower and it may not be as comfortable but you can do it - providing you are not including cliff jumps in the trail set.

Last time, I rode W2 on my HT. The main thing I noticed was more vibration through the hands and feet, which tired me out quicker and made me back off the speed on descents somewhat. I put this down to the style of trail armouring they used there.

But a good suspension seat post could also help with this

Yeah but whilst your seat would be suspended the pedals would be moving up and down with the bumps which would have made pedalling rather difficult I'd have thought...?

Using Whites as the basic Trail-warriors benchmark is't a bad idea it's a good short loop with a mixture of terrain and trail types.

Noo.. surely not. No proper big rocky sections on White's is there?

I'm proper confused. So i ride a full sus which makes me gnarr!! But I also use SPD's which accroding to another troll means I'm ghey!

Can I just go out an ride my bike a not worry about all this crap

No proper big rocky sections on White's is there?

I recall a few bigger rocks on the "black" section and also some near the end. It's more that there's quite a lot of small rocks used in the armouring, compared with the smoother Llandegla/Brechfa "kitty-litter" style surface.

Afan is fairly typical of the purpose-built trails I've ridden.

which would have made pedalling rather difficult I'd have thought...?

nope - it is the saddle kicking you in the arse that is 99% of the problem - and the post stops that.

I am comparing my steel 100mm HT with USE XCR to my dw flux - the flux is super nice but the steel HT with post gives a large percentage of the ride benefits, although the flux climbs better.

In fact the XCR probably gives better small bump response as it reacts very quickly and doesn't have the sticky RP23 shock mount to force to move, which is why I run a needle bearing shock mount instead of the usual fox du bushings.

[i]Wish someone had told me you can only have one type before I started having fun on all of them.[/i]

You may have fun, but you must argue about which is the best. It is the way of the STWer.
😕

Yes, but a seatpost on gives you the binifit of suspension, the bike/your feet still have to deal with the hardtail.

I've ridden both, mainly hardtails, hardtails are slower, they just are, my gut feeling and the laws of physics are in agreement on this fact. That's not to say I'm slower on the HT than any one in the group on a FS. At the Swinley ride 2 people commented in my group commented that

a) I was "pretty nippy" (on my SS HT, him following on FS)
b) a susser would be faster (he was on a HT)

It's mostly the rider, but the bike makes a difference. I wouldn't have said the 2 guys on sussers in our group were worse or better riders just because I could keep up on my bike.

I'm proper confused. So i ride a full sus which makes me gnarr!! But I also use SPD's which accroding to another troll means I'm ghey!

One and the same troll I reckon.

Can I just go out an ride my bike a not worry about all this crap

noobs 🙄

I recall a few bigger rocks

A few rocks isn't the issue. FS territory is rock gardens.

it is the saddle kicking you in the arse that is 99% of the problem

It wasn't when I rode HT!

At Swinley, actual suspension is irrelevant. However geometry is pretty important for speed, I reckon.

I thought Rambo was meant to be well'ard but he poncey's around on a full susser 😥

Why do the poors on their HTs feel the need to justify their decision? It's the same as those people who constantly need to justify why they drive a Passat and tell everyone how much better it is than more expensive German cars. If they had the money they would be riding a decent FS and driving a BMW almost without exception.