[Closed] Richmond Park road rage nutjob..

Let's not leave it there.

LHS - Member
... the cyclist was being as much of a dick as the driver. If you have ever ridden along that stretch of road and seen some of the behaviours you may be willing to entertain the fact that not all cyclists are angels

Does being a dick include pshyically and verbally threatening? I didn't see the cyclist do that.

I'll be the first to blame a cyclist where it is merited. There is nothing to merit it here.

Is your view based on the cyclist trying to make his point, and shouting to be heard?

Attack and personal insults are the lowest forms of intelligence, you do know that right?

Hoardes of people saying they're going to boycott the business when they never have, or never will, been anywhere near any of them anyway. Then, irony of ironies, people firing up their social media accounts to say he should be killed/punched/etc. The mob becomes as bad as the asshat.

Well the cycling club I'm a member of used to have their club meals/drinks/meetings there.
Other alternatives have been found.

Obvious troll is obvious

See previous comments, that's right up there with the "he must be a daily mail reader!" 🙄

All in all shows a lack of integrity and weakness of character.

LHS you eat where you want old chap, just stop trying to justify it. You don't need to. There may be all sorts of reasons why these two went at it (beyond what has been shown) but that [i]is[/i] speculation.

Personally, cyclist hater or not, I wouldn't want to associate myself with someone like that as a friend, customer whatever. I spend time and money with people I like.

You do what you want. It's your time and money. Let's just hope you don't have reason to come back at some point in the future with a motorist/cyclist tale of woe as you'll probably get very short shrift.

I cycle along that road several times a week

not the cycle path then ?

[i]Does being a dick include pshyically and verbally threatening? I didn't see the cyclist do that.[/i]

The cyclist [b]was[/b] pretty verbally abusive. You could argue that it was perhaps justifiable, but to say it wasn't abusive; is revisionism. In any circumstance calling some-one a "see you next tuesday" is abuse.

See you next Tuesday is a great word and the use against the gimp was fully justified

> "See you next Tuesday"

That took a moment for me to figure out. I must live a sheltered life.

I've had the misfortune to be in a situation where I was unexpectedly cornered, threatened and assaulted by a random unhinged bloke in a not dissimilar incident, and I can tell you, whilst you may think that you could remain calm and unsweary I promise you it's not that easy. The shock of it coming out of the blue, the adrenaline, the fear of getting seriously hurt, all kick in to make you react in ways that would shock the rational you. I'm sure blokes who are handy with their fists may be able to physically defuse the situation, but I for one was a shouty, sweaty mess that couldn't have punched an elephant accurately I was so cross/shocked/wound up/stressed just trying to stick up for myself. People who are knocking the cyclist are either ice cold cool dudes or have obviously never been put in a comparable situation. I suspect most are in the latter category.

Although I haven't read all of the thread, I have to say that I agree with V8ninety - shock and adrenaline does strange things to you..

People who are knocking the cyclist are either ice cold cool dudes or have obviously never been put in a comparable situation. I suspect most are in the latter category.

This. You'd need the patience of Job to remain calm when you've just had two tonnes of metal aimed at you. I know I can't.

I had someone open my van door and wanted a fight. I had misunderstood his rather strange parking manoeuvre, he had got a bit sweary so I had made the universal sign of a handbag and blew him a kiss.

This did not go down well.

Next time i'll be faster to the kiddie locks and just lean to the horn so everyone watches.

As for on a bike - that's harder. You don't have a metal box to retreat to. Cycling away muttering is my preferred option. Oh I wouldn't use that cycle path either.

Be interesting to see the size of the cyclist..
Suspect he was not of an Arne type build.
Cyclist language / response seems OTT but as already mentioned, how does one respond when threatened with violence.
On balance not a good outcome for either side..

worth noting, re the cyclist's behaviour:
* the driver swore & shouted first (cyclist says 'oh come on', driver responds with a bunch of "f------- something", shouted around the 25 second mark)
* at around 30 seconds the car's wing mirror I think strikes the cyclist. Perhaps that was a consequence of the driver's fury and loss of control than a deliberate act of itself, but the cyclist doesn't know either way. Further evidence is that later in the vid the driver walks to the mirror and straightens it.

Put oneself in the cyclist's situation - he's cornered, he's been struck by the vehicle, his monkey brain has kicked in, and he's in fight or flight survival mode.

I don't think he has any case to answer re his behaviour. He did well.

He has no case which is why the driver was convicted of an offence and the cyclist was not.

If we have to explain this/debate this with cyclists then its no wonder we cannot make drivers understand and we get abuse for just being there

v8ninety - Member

I've had the misfortune to be in a situation where I was unexpectedly cornered, threatened and assaulted by a random unhinged bloke in a not dissimilar incident, and I can tell you, whilst you may think that you could remain calm and unsweary I promise you it's not that easy

This - x 10 if you've just had a 4x4 driver try to make contact with you.

I am sure the cyclist has played back in his head a more witty verbal interchange with the driver than simply swearing at him.

P.s. I am not debating anything, just expressing my opinion having watched the video..

As c-a said, it applies if you're walking along the pavement and get hit by a car's door mirror. The response is instinctive and immediate, and quite unexpected.

You're probably going to flame me here but i think they were both in the wrong. The driver should have picked a better place to overtake but he had to move in afterwards to avoid the oncoming traffic and I don't think the driver was close enough to the cyclist to warrant his shouting. The car was in front of him so why not just use the brakes? He took it far too personally if you ask me. The contact only came AFTER the slanging match had started and it looks to me like both the cyclist and the driver wanted that to happen. I mean why, if you're the cyclist, pick a fight with a tonne of metal and glass?

I've been driving in London and i'm also a cyclist so i try and show respect but there are some flipping chancers there who try and squeeze through tiny gaps and run red lights etc, they don't do the cycling community any favours at all.

Every section of the community has it's idiots and these two clearly deserve eachother.

I've been driving in London and i'm also a cyclist so i try and show respect but there are some flipping chancers there who try and squeeze through tiny gaps and run red lights etc, they don't do the cycling community any favours at all.

I'm not a community, I'm an individual.

The contact only came AFTER the slanging match had started and it looks to me like both the cyclist and the driver wanted that to happen. I mean why, if you're the cyclist, pick a fight with a tonne of metal and glass?

When you say "the contact" you're referring to two tonnes of metal being aimed at the cyclist? You seriously think he wanted that to happen?

What relevance does the actions of completely unrelated people have to do with it.

If a driver got dragged out of his car and threatened for just being there, absolutely no one would say "ah well look at all those drivers who break the speed limits, they just create resentment".

Allowing the danger of motor vehicles has just become so normalised that even cyclists try to rationalise it by blaming the victims.

If we have to explain this/debate this with cyclists then its no wonder we cannot make drivers understand and we get abuse for just being there

This, very sadly.

I will leave it there

He didn't though did he? And the rest of you apologists.

Here's a suggestion: All those who think the victim brought the tirade upon himself and that Brew Café branches are a cool place to eat should go there and eat, drink, listen to INXS guitar riffs on an endless loop while having your handlebar controls moved for a tenner etc, etc. You deserve it.

I would feel uneasy giving any custom to the places.

I'm going to treat Bomberman's post with the respect it deserves.

bomberman - Member

I'm not a community, I'm an individual.

To some people you're a "them" and they're an "us". Don't be so naive as to think it's a good idea to pick a fight with a lunatic driving two tonnes of steel. You won't win.

It's the same with any fight isn't it? either you get involved or you let it slide.

I'm glad the guy in the range rover is being named and shamed but i still think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

[i]it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. [/i]

the argument probably was, the using the 'two tonnes of steel' to stop the cyclist in the first place wasn't.

did you watch the same video as me?

I watched a video where a guy in a range rover drove a bit too close to a cyclist. What happened after was much messier.

Like someone said earlier, they are both a couple of pansies.

The 4x4 attempted to overtake.
The 4x4 failed to overtake cleanly and moved towards the cyclist.
The cyclist shouted a warning.
The 4x4 driver went apesh1t!
The 4x4 driver deliberately steered his vehicle towards the cyclist in a threatening manner.
The cyclist's adrenalin surged, causing him to shout and scream, hopefully scaring away the danger (natural response by normal people not equipped with the means to physically defend themselves - big muscles, weapons etc etc).
The 4x4 driver performed a very rubbish Hakka.

The video was handed to the Police.
The 4x4 driver was prosecuted.
The cyclist was not.

The 4x4 driver may have other issues (allegedly).

I rest my case M'lud...

I'm glad the guy in the range rover is being named and shamed but i still think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

No it isn't

There is a massive asymmetry in the relationship between a cyclist and a driver.

If you are in your car and I'm riding my bike and I want to harm you, first I'd have to persuade you to get out the car then I'd have to bludgeon you slowly to death with my bike.

If you are in your car and you want to harm me, you just need to turn your steering wheel a little bit to the left as you go past.

Unless a cyclist does something really stupid it almost never "six of one half a dozen of the other" And cycling a long a road minding you own business certainly doesn't qualify.

Sorry Deveron53, you missed the bit about his little willy 😆

Right - this two tonnes of steel thing is annoying me now. A landrover is ~2.8 tonnes, so surely if we're just using one decimal place then it should be a 3 tonne vehicle. That's sounds like more of a threat than a 2 tonne one.

Dev/Rich I think you're probably wasting your time.

The facts seem to me to be that the cyclist is, as he says, legally allowed to cycle where he was. The driver of the land rover executed a manoeuvre that looks at least ‘careless’ (driving without due care and attention if you must get technical) if not - by the time he swerves to menace the cyclist - ‘dangerous driving’. I assume he was convicted of one of these but I could be wrong. The driver then threatens to kill the cyclist, while the cyclist taunts the driver.

I therefore believe it’s pretty one sided and tend to disagree with Bomberman (sorry, not flaming, just my pov!).

To me, the potentially more important (longer-term) point is that the driver has the attitude of ‘cyclists get out of my way’ and this has no place in 2015. The evidence to support this view is the driver telling the cycling he should be in the cycle lane. The fact that there’s a cycle lane near-by, to my mind, is irrelevant and misses the point (and in some ways IS the point) - there could be the world’s slickest cycling lane nearby - but the cyclist is still allowed to use the road.

I may end up feeling sorry for the driver and his business but if this example does anything to alter the tolerance of bike riding in the UK then I will be happy (although for taking the shot of himself on the scales he deserves the public vilification). My fear is that, by ‘picking’ on the driver, we miss the opportunity to make the wider point and do some good for cyclists as a whole.

There is a massive asymmetry in the relationship between a cyclist and a driver.

So obviously this is why it's OK for cyclists to run red lights and pull out suddenly in front of people, because they are so small and vulnerable that they couldn't [i]possibly[/i] do any damage.

Well done for beating that straw man to death and ignoring the point made 🙄

Dev/Rich I think you're probably wasting your time.

* dont mistake that for a question as i know the standard response is to insist you mean it and different opinion etc I just struggle to believe someone has this level of difficulty comprehending the law and reality.

So obviously this is why it's OK for cyclists to run red lights and pull out suddenly in front of people, because they are so small and vulnerable that they couldn't possibly do any damage.

Where in the video does he do that?

JY - once we're onto

'I'm going to ignore your point but what about this unrelated thing that some members of group X do that's wrong, Eh? Eh?'

responses it's time to walk away...

Hey i'm not condoning the way the guy drove, i'm just saying the cyclist overreacted. If it were me i would have just driven on the other side of the road. I try and leave at least a metre between me and the cyclist, not just a foot like this guy did. He's a cock there's no doubt about it but what followed made both of them look bad.

I watched a programme last night where a German girl had been run over by a lorry. It crushed her pelvis and severed her artery. They cut her chest open on the side of the road, one guy clamped her aorta with his fingers while the other guy massaged her heart in his hand. In the end she died.

I don't know what happened before the accident but having seen that and seen what road rage does to people i'd think twice before getting involved with a 2.8 tonne car. Where did shouting get him? He is lucky the crazy Aussie didn't mow him down.

EDIT heeds was advice

When the driver made his initial overtake, he actually clipped the cyclist with his wing mirror. Its at this point the cyclist first shouts.

Notice the driver straighten the mirror near the end of the clip? That's from the initial collision, before anyone says anything.

I didn't see that. I thought that had occurred during the exchange that followed

Dev/Rich I think you're probably wasting your time.

So obviously this is why it's OK for cyclists to run red lights and pull out suddenly in front of people, because they are so small and vulnerable that they couldn't possibly do any damage.

on one level it isnt the fault of the driver, hold fire, dont shoot me yet.

the problem is actually the road they are on.
I used it on my commute for 2 years. Its narrow.
Its also popular as a route in/out of Richmond park for cyclist. Cycling has grown in popularity and there are now more cycles on this road.
Car drivers are often overtaking a long line of cycles into the park and looking for gaps in oncoming traffic to do this.
The cycle lane is pants and its only on one side, it doesnt meet the needs of commuting cyclists.
The above creates pinch points all along this road.
The road needs redesigning - take out the useless bike lane, widen the road and put in cycle lanes on both sides with dotted or solid lines. Repair the holes in the road.

This said the driver was a complete see you next tuesday. He drove poorly and with no consideration for the cyclists using this road. He then mouthed off and was completely out of order.

We should stop debating the symptoms and action a cure, fix the roads.

Standard response isn't it, shows a lack of imagination.

There is definitely a big issue that keeps on getting bigger with the interaction between vehicles and bikes on the ever busier roads and due to the limitations on our infrastructure there are not many options to alleviate it. The rise in anti-social driving is becoming alarming too.

There is however an equally alarming rise in confrontational and aggressive cyclists who donn their weekend warrior outfits complete with go-pro and seem to go looking for trouble. Youtube is now littered with channels of these unsung heroes shouting abuse at cars and pedestrians whilst in reality not cycling in a responsible manner. It is a shared environment and most people on her will be on both sides of the fence from experience.

I was making the point that cyclists are nowhere near perfect.

Once more you beat the straw men to death as no one has actually claimed all cyclists are perfect

Even though this fact is true it has no bearing on who was right or wrong in this incident so bringing it up is irrelevant.

Youtube is now littered with channels of these unsung heroes shouting abuse at cars and pedestrians whilst in reality not cycling in a responsible manner.

You should watch some Russian dash cams, that's what all drivers are like.

We should stop debating the symptoms and action a cure, fix the roads

Absolutely true but until that happens, if ever, then we need to also deal with the symptoms; both antagonistic cyclists (yes, they exist) and idiots in death chariots.

Kind of like saying that the way to prevent the spread of HIV is to develop a vaccine. Might be true but we shouldn't stop using condoms in the meantime.

Small ones, in some cases, obviously.

Small ones, in some cases, obviously.

FNAAAR!

TiPinMan is right about the infrastructure but the best way to fix it is with a set of concrete bollards at all the park entrances

cars only drive down there because they are trying to shorten a journey by 1/2 a mile and this video proves that cars are too big, too numerous, too fast - no longer appropriate for a public park

Standard response isn't it, shows a lack of imagination.

the problem is actually the road they are on.

We should stop debating the symptoms and action a cure, fix the roads

Disagree. Well, partly. If all drivers were nice and courteous, the roads would all be fine. Don't shift blame away from the arseholes, they are the guilty ones.

That's like blaming a dodgy door for a burglary. It's still the burglar's fault!

This thread has gone downhill from after about page 8. Newcomers can't be arsed to read all the way through so are repeating the same already refuted rubbish.

So, what about a competition? Send in your best 'homage' videos showing some shortarse beardy berk in a tight leather jacket going apesh1t about something random. While dancing a crap Hakka around a 4x4. Extra points for wearing a mask of the offender while doing it.

I reckon the Germans have been waiting for something like this. You know the famous scene from the film 'Der Untergang' where Hitler rants about stuff and non-German speaking people make memes with subtitles that tell a different story. I can imagine them doing that with this video!

Standard response isn't it, shows a lack of imagination.

Oh the ironing

on one level it isnt the fault of the driver, hold fire, dont shoot me yet.

the problem is actually the road they are on.

I'm not shooting you, because you make a well reasoned argument, but there's a flaw in your argument. The fact the road could be improved is irrelevant to whether it is the fault of the driver. I'm sure that despite the limitations of the road it is possible to drive down there in a manner which isn't aggressive or unsafe towards cyclists - in fact it's incredibly easy to do so.

So yes, it would be possible to improve the road, and that would help prevent aggressive (drugged up?) drivers from being a danger, but fundamentally that's not the problem.

I didn't see that. I thought that had occurred during the exchange that followed

ah, no, you are right, its when the driver cut back in.

So, what about a competition? Send in your best 'homage' videos showing some shortarse beardy berk in a tight leather jacket going apesh1t about something random. While dancing a crap Hakka around a 4x4. Extra points for wearing a mask of the offender while doing it.

I was thinking (and mentioned a few pages ago) a mash of this video and the one on their website, but got stuck with trying to extract their website video. Anybody with better skills at that who could help?

Well said LHS, someone who is intelligent enough to see the argument from both perspectives.

As opposed to:

I just wanted to be a Troll for 5 minutes.

agree with reducing traffic in cities, everyone likes a quiet clean and safe place to live no?

maybe something like the removal of non trade and thru traffic from many areas and pedestrianize others along with a proper reliable and affordable public transport network?

many cities seem to have failed miserably in terms of transport management and pretend that it is not getting worse.

oh, and enforcement of the existing traffic laws so [b]all road users [/b]do not let their standards slip to the digraceful level I am sure we all witness and probably even exhibit ourselves daily 😳

Well done you used intelligent correctly and it was intelligible

RESULT
😀

Now can we get you to stop bringing up pointless and irrelevant information in your assessment....I fear this is for another day.
😥

I've finally got round to watching that, and I have no issue at all with the cyclists behaviour/verbals. He's quite clearly flooded with adrenaline and you can hear the distress in his voice, in contrast to the driver who is pure anger.

Now can we get you to stop bringing up pointless and irrelevant information in your assessment....I fear this is for another day.

Are you really that argumentative, or do you just get off on exhibiting archaic and bullying discussion techniques?

You also need to look up the word intelligible.

The words "straw man" have been used, close the thread.

Agreed.

or do you just get off on exhibiting archaic and bullying discussion techniques?

He is a troll just ignore him LHS. A pathetic trouble maker.

With regards to the distress in the cyclists voice, I didn't hear that distress when the guy was in his car and he shouts "oh come on". Only when the he gets out and threatens to knock his teeth down his throat (lovely). THEN he is distressed. Mind you I'd be distressed at that point, and probably wishing I hadn't made such a f*cking big deal out of it in the first place.

He is a troll just ignore him LHS. A pathetic trouble maker.

I prescribe a course of self-awareness.

Mind you I'd be distressed at that point, and probably wishing I hadn't made suck a f*cking big deal out of it in the first place.

Having a [s]two[/s] three-tonne lump of metal aimed at you is a big deal.

Quite, it's in response to the aggression from the driver, but it's after that this his (the cyclists) impolite, although in my opinion excusable, language begins - after the adrenaline kicks in due to the driver's absurd reaction to 'oh come on'.

Thread has jumped the shark. Nothing more to see here.

the problem is actually the road they are on.

Well, partly...

The problem originates with the road they are on, but is actually caused by people's inability to adjust their driving to their surroundings.

Foggy conditions are certainly the origin of collisions, but only when people fail to react to it correctly by slowing down and behaving sensibly. Try blaming the fog and see how your insurance company responds.

the problem is actually the road they are on.
I used it on my commute for 2 years. Its narrow.

this may be true but it is made worse by the fact he is driving an innappropriate car.

I wonder what activities he does where he actually needs such a vehicle in London, but even so he should take account of that and drive appropriately and not try to bully his way through the traffic.

Plus the guy cycling was going at a reasonable clip - if you look at average traffic speeds in London what exactly did he gain with that manoeuvre - a few seconds ?

Was that worth risking someone elses live ?

Imagine how embarrassed his kids are going to be at school ! Especially if that scales picture has done the rounds.

"oh come on is" hardly making a big deal ffs .I would have gone nuts from the start

If you are going to start a fight with another road user you should at least be prepared to finish it, not whimper like a dog with it's tail between it legs.

LOL to the both of them, and LOL to the trolls on here. You know who you are

Pigface - Member
The words "straw man" have been used, close the thread.

Have we already had a Godwin? If so, please go ahead and close the thread.

Tiny leather jacket and male appendage chappy pranced about like a jumped up mini Hitler.

Always happy to oblige. Now let's move on... 😉

Wow Bomberman and LHS are even bigger trolls/car-lovers/cyclist-haterz/idiots than I imagined.

*adds to list*

Edric 64 - Member
"oh come on is" hardly making a big deal ffs .I would have gone nuts from the start

He couldn't go too nuts as he was filming.

Wow Bomberman and LHS are even bigger trolls/car-lovers/cyclist-haterz/idiots than I imagined.

*adds to list*

They won't need to open their mouths all that wide with this one...