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I find this whole thread extremely depressing. I've been on the receiving end of this kind of thing. There's so much aggression and tension in our lives waiting to spill out. I ride on the road as little as possible, preferring the quiet trails but even on my short hop to the local station i've had agro from car drivers. In these instances its sad, but for some riders and their families it becomes tragic.
THIS
He admitted an assault. There was not threat or danger from you as he was inside a metal box that they got out only to hit you
I would not accept anythin gless than a prosecution
I complained. It was investigated. The officer did nothing wrong and there are more important things to deal with was the wording and impression I got. A prosecution was what I wanted but when the investigating officer and their superiors say no there's not much you can do. Once he'd been told to write the letter then I don't think he could be reinvestigated and given a different punishment for the same crime so it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.
This is why I believe every regular cyclist in the UK should take out legal insurance, after reporting an incident to the police I would want my own legal representation to make sure it is handled properly.
We are brought up to believe the justice system will always do the right thing, unfortunately for those of us who are rarely likely to come into contact with it throughout our lives, we do not know how to handle the system to get the correct outcome.
I am not condoning the driver who has rightly been fined but cyclists not using the bike planes provided is indeed a source of frustration.
Yep, I often get frustrated by poor quality bike lanes.
not sure i would have let it go
Perhaps i should try clipping a [plastic] copper on a bike getting out of my car chinning them and I am sure an apology will do just fine
Shocking decision tbh
IME bike lanes are very hit and miss.
I dont use any locally as they are pretty rubbish - the ones through the new town they built are much better but shared use and walkers stand on both sides
I agree with some of the comments in the link that there should be some psychological element to a driving license - people like this are too irrational to be on the roads.
Also agree about bike paths. There's a lovely one near me that runs parallel to a very busy dual carriageway. Unfortunately it's also near a school so in the morning it's full of kids texting and mums with pushchairs!
[quote=bails ]I complained. It was investigated. The officer did nothing wrong and there are more important things to deal with was the wording and impression I got. A prosecution was what I wanted but when the investigating officer and their superiors say no there's not much you can do. Once he'd been told to write the letter then I don't think he could be reinvestigated and given a different punishment for the same crime so it wouldn't have made any difference anyway.
To the IPCC?* TBH I reckon the more important thing is to get the police to change their attitude than to get that particular motorist prosecuted, and that certainly could be achieved by escalating the complaint.
* I've just had a phone call from the professional standards unit of a police force regarding a complaint I raised about something completely different (longing to discuss on here, but he mentioned a possible prosecution for the officer, so probably best not) - when I raised that online there was an option to go via IPCC rather than the force's own complaints procedure.
Still agree
I cannot see what protocol/procedure allows them to ignore an unprovoked assault.
Very interested in this.
A few years ago I reported something similar. A guy in a car gave me a friendly nudge while I was waiting for a rubbish truck to get out of the way so I could turn right. He threatened assault, I took his plate down and complained to the police.
The letter I got back from the police said they'd interviewed the person who did it. He admitted a "road rage" incident and that was all they could do because there were no witnesses.
TL;DR: Got bumped by a motorist. Complained to cops. Motorist admitted it but cops said nothing doing because there were no witnesses.
I don't buy the "there's more important stuff to investigate" excuse if they're not competent enough to arrest/charge someone who admits to a crime. How exactly is that supposed to happen?
Also agree about bike paths. There's a lovely one near me that runs parallel to a very busy dual carriageway. Unfortunately it's also near a school so in the morning it's full of kids texting and mums with pushchairs!
There's one near me that's OK, but it's completely segregated from the carriageway but the access to it is from a traffic lighted spiral roundabout and on my way into work it's on the wrong side, so getting onto it it's easier to ride along 1/2mile to the next roundabout and go round that one to get across.
Without fail get the *bbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppp* and finger wagging at the path, usually form a black 4x4 of some kind.
A wandsworth council van tried to ram me off the same road some years back, then lept out and shouted abuse. The council apologised for the bad language, but couldn't care less that their employees were trying to kill people.
Shared space cycle paths are rarely fit for purpose IMHO, I've tried a few and invariably they're full of meandering people staring at their smartphone screens.
I've had a couple of people beep and point at the cycle path. My response is usually along the lines of "Show me where in the Highway Code it states that I must ride on a cycle path". This invariably results in much confusion from the inevitable simian behind the wheel as they attempt to process this.
[ninja edit]
The law is an ass. There are so many instances where a cyclist has been assaulted by a motorist and the authorities seem to take the view that the presence of a bicycle constitutes an act of provocation. This will only change if we take the police to task on this, with help from our elected representatives.
Of course, this sort of thing never happens anywhere else, does it?
not in places with real beer and hills it doesnt. [b]FACT[/b]
IIRC you need corroboration to convict someone - i.e. 2 or more witnesses (not including the perp, under HRA he/she can't incrimiate him/herself)
That particular bike lane, IMO, is not fit for purpose.
It's no more than a line painted on the pavement, no physical segregation between pedestrians/cyclist. There certainly isn't enough room for cyclists to pass each other & pedestrians at the same time. There's been no attempt to widen it anyway - it's a weak, poor, failed, CHEAP, excuse of a bike lane & very poorly thought through!
Can you tell I don't like it??
Of course they can make a confession and admit guilt.
under HRA he/she can't incrimiate him/herself
Put the daily mail down and step away slowly.
Does the fact that the cyclist is also a bit shouty (I think TBH i would have been as well ) make a difference in a court case?
Does the fact that the cyclist is also a bit shouty (I think TBH i would have been as well ) make a difference in a court case?
Can't see how, considering the shouting was [i]after[/i] he veered at the rider with his vehicle. Which I presume is what he was convicted for.
[quote=cynic-al ]IIRC you need corroboration to convict someone - i.e. 2 or more witnesses (not including the perp, under HRA he/she can't incrimiate him/herself)
I challenge you to find where in the law it says that. Do you have plenty of time to waste?
How do you need corroboration when they confess they did it and a victim reports?
Does that mean I can rob a shop as long as there is only one person in there ?
Rape would seem to be an easy crime to get away with as we will never be able to prosecute due to lack of witness ETC
[i]Can't see how[/i]
Escalating the situation?
Obviously he doesn't have to take whatever the driver throws at him, but they do seem to just manage to wind each other up more and more. (I'm not trying to defend anyone's actions just trying to get an idea how the 'law' views this sort of thing?
Police are always "Anymore of that language and it's curtains" I just wondered if a dim view is taken?
On a lighter note...I did a 10 mile ride around our local town yesterday, about 40 of us, of all age groups from 4 yrs to probably 70 yrs plus. We had appointed marshals zipping ahead to stop traffic & can honestly say we didn't encounter a single bit of abuse from any drivers who were held up.
[quote=aracer ]Do you have plenty of time to waste?
I've just realised how stupid a comment that is to post to the STW daytime crowd 😳
At the end of the video the two cyclists rode off two abreast nattering to each other. No chance of that annoying the next approaching motorist then. 😆
MrSmith - Membernot in places with real beer and hills it doesnt. FACT
Bavaria?
Aye fair enough, it's Sctochland where you need corroboration, and HRA means you can't force someone to incriminate themselves.
But if they've volunteered the information, HRA doesn't make it inadmissible.
I don't know much about Scottish law (even less than I know about English law), but surprised if the statement of a single witness is inadmissible - for reasons outlined above. Up to the court to decide whether to trust it.
God help anyone who complains about his food.
[url= http://brew-cafe.com/ ]http://brew-cafe.com/[/url]
aracer - Member
I don't know much about Scottish law (even less than I know about English law), but surprised if the statement of a single witness is inadmissible
It's not inadmissible, just not sufficient to convict (with some exceptions)
Be surprised!:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corroboration_in_Scots_law
A cornerstone of Scots law, the requirement for corroborating evidence means at least two different and independent sources of evidence are required in support of each crucial fact before a defendant can be convicted of a crime.[2] This means, for example, that an admission of guilt by the accused is insufficient evidence to convict in Scotland, because that evidence needs to be corroborated by another source
If you look at his Twitter (assuming it's the same bloke) he's posing with a meat cleaver...
Is the bloke in the brew-cafe website the maniac nutcase on video ?
Is the bloke in the brew-cafe website the maniac nutcase on video ?
Someone on Roadcc has named him and linked him to that business. It looks like it could be the same bloke... but that's not the same as an official confirmation!
Is the bloke in the brew-cafe website the maniac nutcase on video ?
I wanna know...
Shall I leave a negative Tripadvisor review?
😛
shall we do a group ride to see 😈
Do it.
Looks right, has the right accent, is in the right place. Not definitive proof, but it seems likely.
A load of MAMIL's should reserve a few tables on a weekend, order a glass of water each, nothing else and take about 4 hours to drink it. If he's the one of course.
That HAS to be the same guy.
Mahoosive PR fail!
Is there a way of sending all his twitter followers a link to the video?
The driver clearly has a very small pe**s.
I`m not sure he has one at all !!
Slight antipodean accent. Watch the video again with that in mind. He seems to be such a nice bloke on the video on his website!
Another chef, another c**t: [url= http://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2009/sep/15/james-martin-cyclists ]James Martin[/url]
If it had been Gordon Ramsay...
Videos like this remind me of why I try not to cycle on the roads.
Ah, the power of the tinternet.
Booh, you can't leave a url in a review on their FB page.
I'm going to order a knuckle sandwich, some hospital food and a can of w'up ass.
[i]Obviously[/i] it would be unacceptable to visit his restaurant and doodle a bike in spray paint over the frontage. Then get a good 40 or so lycra-clad roadies to wait for him to arrive and watch an angry man explode.
Follow him from his greasy spoon to his Chelsea tractor and someone can confirm we have the right convict ?
I cycle past that place (Brew, Lower Richmond Road branch) reasonably often - I'll keep an eye out for that Discovery parked nearby!
Already being tagged like mad on twitter
https://twitter.com/search?q=%40brewwells
https://twitter.com/search?q=%40brew_cafe
I think the people have decided
Funk me, he should be shot ([b]to death[/b]) just for having that video auto-playing and auto-repeating on his website.
Windup spec internet = "Hi, I'm Jason Wells" on repeat.
👿
Bonus points to anybody who can do a nice mix of the road rage and website videos. I might have a go myself later if no offers, but I'm sure there are folks on here much better at that sort of thing.
At the end of the video the two cyclists rode off two abreast nattering to each other. No chance of that annoying the next approaching motorist then.
So, lets take this one apart shall we.
It's legal to ride two abreast.
Riding in single file the lanes on that road are not wide enough to overtake if anything is approaching in the opposite direction (see the incident at the start of the video).
Riding two abreast means it is less likely that a driver will attempt a dangerous overtake.
There's actually a strong argument that you should always ride two abreast - no-one should be overtaking unless the other lane is clear and riding 2 abreast you take up less road so overtaking manoeuvres require a shorter distance and are therefore safer.
On twitter he has a big Chopper in his hands,he was obviously having a bad day,nobody got hurt, he got his 5 minutes of infamy on the media.
Booh, you can't leave a url in a review on their FB page.
Can post photo's though. and presumably videos or gifs?
I must say that was very well taken apart Simons, congratulations. Can I interest you in a gourmet bacon butty?
If you take the big car out of it you basically have a complete w** shouting at a bit of a t**. Neither do themselves any favours in the PR department, and I'd like to think I would not descend to that sort of behaviour under any circumstances.
Chefs are usually grumpy bastards though....
Search for road rage cyclist on twitter and a veritable storm of twittery comes up. He'll get his just rewards. STW does not need to stoop to his level. But it helps to talk about it.
I would have grabbed his car keys and thrown them as far as I could. Hopefully he would then have chased me on foot. I would have cycled just fast enough to make him chase, running until he did what the angry golfer did in 'Falling Down'.
Or, jumped into his car, locked the doors and pressed the gas pedal to the floor as hard as possible until the engine failed!
Good job I don't cycle in busy cities. I prefer the quiet life these days.
Can I interest you in a gourmet bacon butty?
That would be mighty fine. I'm starving.
If you take the big car out of it...
Yeah well if you take the gas chambers out of it you just have an angry short man with an irrational dislike of some groups of people.
and yes, I do know exactly what I did there 😉
andylc - MemberIf you take the big car out of it you basically have a complete w** shouting at a bit of a t**.
Well yes. Because it's basically all about the bit where the man with the big car nearly runs over a cyclist then goes apeshit at him for daring to ride a bike.
Cant we get him deported ? He`s just another bloody Aussie barman
The charming fellow lives locally in the (Royal) Borough - [url= http://www.theresident.co.uk/homes-interiors/modern-real-home-richmond/#comment-292218 ]glossy mag blurb[/url] - note the Black LR Discovery visible through the half-open door in the picture half-way down on the right.
Just watched it again - in the interests of science.....
1. love the way everyone (the front cyclist, the yellow Ka, the gimp and our sweary hero) all ignore the mini roundabout and carry on straight through/over it without slowing etc.
2. Still trying to work out what triggered it - when the 4X4 first goes past it's not actually much closer than the Ka was when it went past. Cyclist then shouts something and the gimp looses the plot with much swearing and braking veering closer. The first time he went past he was too close imo (but 'everyday close' - what you sadly get to expect most days in that sort of area), but it wasn't a punishment pass per se.
That whole clip would have been a much better 'business closer' posted on the gimp's social media if the cyclist had been able to keep his potty mouth closed.
Yourlocalguardian.co.uk has made the connection:
[url= http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/13217611.Extreme_road_rage_driver_identified_as_master_butcher_and_owner_of_upmarket_cafes/ ]Article[/url]
They've used the meat cleaver shot to illustrate the article. S****.
I expect this will actually be good for his business, being a foul mouthed, bullying arsehole hasn't hurt Gordon Ramsay has it..I take the view that anyone that gets out of their vehicle and comes at me is about to attack me and I treat them accordingly. I figure the fact they're out of their car is ample evidence of who the aggressor is, should the police become involved and a slap right in the noggin can certainly help a hysterical person come to their senses, as evidenced by many a film noir.
I take the view that anyone that gets out of their vehicle and comes at me is about to attack me and I treat them accordingly. I figure the fact they're out of their car is ample evidence of who the aggressor is, should the police become involved.
Have to say I agree - I'm relatively binary in my reaction - either remain calm and laugh at them or 'physically diffuse' the situation. The screechy, sweary middle ground tends not to be my style. It does help being big enough and still young enough to have the confidence that I rarely need to think about backing down. I'll soon be old enough though that I might have to alter my ways.
convert - Member
Just watched it again - in the interests of science.....
1. love the way everyone (the front cyclist, the yellow Ka, the gimp and our sweary hero) all ignore the mini roundabout and carry on straight through/over it without slowing etc.That whole clip would have been a much better 'business closer' posted on the gimp's social media if the cyclist had been able to keep his potty mouth closed.
Great cyclist bashing. Perhaps they had a better view of it than you do through the camera?
You have no idea what happened before.
If you can react calmly when threatened like that, go you 🙄
glossy mag blurb...
...his children, Grainne, 16 and Caellum, 15...
I'm going to have to add Australian to my list of nationalities that shouldn't be allowed to name their own children.
‘Monday night in our house is champagne night,’ he says, ‘I do the cooking; we’ll crack open a bottle of champers and the kids are in charge of the music on Sonos.
What. A. Knobber. DIAF
[quote=Deveron53 ]Yourlocalguardian.co.uk has made the connection:
Article
They've used the meat cleaver shot to illustrate the article. S****.
When asked if she could confirm it was Mr Wells in the video, the spokeswoman added she was “not confirming” anything.
That settles it then in case there was still any doubt - I'm sure she'd have denied it if it was possible to do so.
love the way everyone (the front cyclist, the yellow Ka, the gimp and our sweary hero) all ignore the mini roundabout and carry on straight through/over it without slowing etc.
Do you have to, at mini roundabouts?
‘Monday night in our house is champagne night,’ he says, ‘I do the cooking; we’ll crack open a bottle of champers and the kids are in charge of the music on Sonos.
That's the ****iest thing I've ever read on here. What a ****.
Wonder if someone might print up some business cards with a frame grab & QR codes to the YouTube video & pages like this to leave them in his cafés for patrons with mobile devices? Or perhaps tucked under the windscreen of a Disco parked
Are the Brew Cafes the uk's Los Pollos Hermanos? Maybe he's a drug overlord.
Great cyclist bashing.
erm...where did I single out the cyclists?
love the way everyone (the front cyclist, [b]the yellow Ka[/b], [b]the gimp[/b] and our sweary hero) all ignore the mini roundabout and carry on straight through/over it without slowing etc.
You are right though, they could all have been able to see more, but it is clearly local custom (irrespective of vehicle type) just to ignore that as a roundabout.
You have no idea what happened before.
Again, you are right, can't know for certain, but I vote absolutely nothing given the minute or so of normal film beforehand and lack of reaction by the cyclist when first passed.
If you can react calmly when threatened like that, go you
I am pretty awsumz if I say so myself 🙂 Calm, does not necessarily mean passive though.
Apparently, he's a *cough* MasterButcher