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I read somewhere ages ago you are supposed to eat high protein and fat? This helps your body 'learn' to eat the fat content on your body?
Fasted morning rides for most of us wanting to burn more fat. Ketosis diets for the committed, something I'd not read about until recently, seems a bit extreme to me.
1hr plus in the morning on empty (or black coffee only, helps fat burning also) at a steady pace with a few short hill efforts works well, it takes a while but eventually your endurance will be a lot better as you won't go from carbs to fat energy use with the 'crash' that regular gel-quaffers often do. Worked for me - used to be a real sugar-crasher rider. The body starts to use fat as energy after 1-2hrs I think so getting to that point with less in the tank encourages you to start the fat burn sooner and more naturally.
My experience:
Ride first thing in the morning on an empty stomach for about an hour and then don't eat at all for a couple of hours a couple of times a week
When riding for longer when you'll need to take food (and think if you'll actually need to, are you really going to be out for that long), avoid simple sugars (like energy drinks and bars) and eat actual food (like sandwiches).
Post ride - just eat normal food. at the normal time. Unless you're training hard and have been riding on the rivet, you don't need anything special (protein shakes and all that nonsense), just have your tea/dinner.
The sports nutrition 'industry' has made us all think too hard about these things.
I was trying the whole "low carb" thing last year and it definitely made a difference to my stamina 2-3 hours into any exercise. I did have to train my body not to go into slowdown mode when my stomach felt a little empty though, so I think it's also a mental thing.
for about an hour and then don't eat at all for a couple of hours
Is that to get the most of the 'calorie burn' after a ride? What pace are you riding at in that hour? Do you find you're wanting to eat more than you would if you ate a small amount after the ride ie normal cereal breakfast?
Ta
[i]Is that to get the most of the 'calorie burn' after a ride?[/i]
Honestly, dunno the mechanics, but seemed to work to shift some tub.
[i]What pace are you riding at in that hour?[/i]
Steady to slightly trying
[i]Do you find you're wanting to eat more than you would if you ate a small amount after the ride ie normal cereal breakfast?[/i]
Nope. I have a coffee after the ride and then nothing until lunch. I'm hungry by lunchtime, but not ravenous.
15mile morning commute followed by a coffee or two for me, then eat at lunchtime.
The evidence for it working is contested and on balance the advice is normal protein, normal fat and high carbs to fuel you to do even more exercise=get faster.
But if you must the best fat burning rides are looooooong moderate intensity rides without fueling. Too fast and your body needs carbs and eats its own muscles to get them.
My body has no trouble[i]eating[/i] fat.
It's burning it off afterwards that I struggle with.
last month's Cyclist mag has an article on it. The summary isn't far off what jameso said. 1 hour morning steady rides on just a coffee, once or twice a week.
Otherwise, just ride long and steady.
Similar to above, I put on a few kilos early last year and wanted to burn them off so just hopped out of bed and did 2hr stints at high to med pace having drunk coffee only, then lunch at about 1130-1230 when my tum had settled down.
It's been a regime I've used over the years to good effect.
Oh, don't eat Gel nor "Power" Bars during your morning stint, let your tum settle into working on it's own.
You'll be supprosed at how easy this becomes and effective too, something you'll be able to carry on for years to come.
Oh, don't eat Gel nor "Power" Bars during your morning stint, let your tum settle into working on it's own.
I dont touch gel or power bars. For years I'd get the shakes an realised when out on the mountain bike I'd stuff myself with Jellybabies etc.
Interms of 'tum'- you mean the hunger etc?
I'll start getting up silly o'clock twice a week during the working week 😀
If you are referring to proper high protein / fat diet with diminished carb intake then its more challenging to get the food you need. There are a few real sports nutritionists operation out of Loughbrough that have produced some great papers on training low and racing high.
Personally if i am riding 3+ hrs at endurance pace I will not eat but will have a mix of coconut milk and water with himalayan sea salt. I know others that add flavouring too but I find the coconut milk super tasty.
I take some carb with me incase I feel like I need it but in all honesty I normally never touch it.
I will add I changed to this way of eating to make my body more economical for the racing I do and not too lose weight. I float around 5% all year.
There are pro's and cons to training empty - its a very old school train of thought and most professional athletes no longer do it. Lots of reading about this if you look on-line.
double espresso and an early morning ride - don't beast yourself, just a normal ride (like a commute). then don't eat til lunch.
There are pro's and cons to training empty - its a very old school train of thought and most professional athletes no longer do it.
I'd guess that's because once you're a more efficient, fit rider there's no longer any need to do it. It's fairly ineffective training, it's not hard riding that gets you fit and it's not good 'recovery' as it lowers your energy reserves. I only do it during periods where I may have a few kg to lose and I'm not building fitness for a particular ride. Good winter or early-season habit.
I don't think of it as training empty, just tapping into the reserves and keeping a good endurance efficiency going. The body adapts well but settles into old habits or a normal balance otherwise?
key thing is dont go out too hard, you'll bonk quick and not recover,
steady steady pace until you get used to it.
[i] For years I'd get the shakes an realised when out on the mountain bike I'd stuff myself with Jellybabies etc. [/i]
Substitute the jellybabies for sandwiches, sausage rolls, scotch eggs, sushi...
I read coconut milk is a bad idea, well at least regular consumption of reasonable amounts due to the amount of magnesium (I think..)
Buy yourself 'Portables' I'm busy reading it now, loads of good snack ideas for riding that aren't gels or bars.
Personally I don't think you have to get too scientific with this, keep in your best fat burning zone (z2) for longer rides. If you ride at this pace you should be able to go all day without the need to eat anything outside your normal pattern. Carry one emergency gel in case you bonk. Take pride if you can get it to go out of date...
For whatever reason I need to eat loads in the mornings, 3 egg omelette, ride, then a packet of oatcakes and black coffee is my normal routine. Length of ride depends on how quickly I get up - normally 30mins up to 2hrs. Most of my main rides are after work 5-8 which I don't eat anything other than a fruit bar and maybe an energy drink if I'm riding tempo or hill climbing. Save the gels for the races or big days out when you are struggling rather than rely on them for everyday rides.
Oh and at least once a week do a short HIIT session. You could do this at lunch time. You'll see weight fall off.
Simple exercise more, eat less = loose weight (someone had to say it)
How does not eating until lunchtime impact on peoples concentration efforts at work?
I'm quite sure I wouldn't be able to look at forecast figures and post on singletrack without as much as a Pain au chocolate to help me digest the 'WTF loam' threads.
[i]How does not eating until lunchtime impact on peoples concentration efforts at work?
[/i]
It's no lower than normal 🙂
IME: I did a couple of years of early morning commutes (12 - 16miles) on coffee / empty tum and then had a 'late' breakfast of porridge. Did I loose more weight than the tried and tested routes of lowering my 'normal' food intake? I honestly can't say. I certainly had consistent weight lose but I was also careful of what I ate at normal meal times.
Did my cycling stamina improve? Again, I'm struggling to really justify this approach against proper training regimes. I did the WHW whilst doing the above and it was certainly wasn't a breeze. In fairness, i struggled time wise to get many 'long' training rides in, 75% of my training was very much concentrated on 1 - 3 hr stints.
I read [url= http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/nutrition-weight-loss/eat-light-your-bike ]this interesting article[/url] and it seems to suggest the majority of us cyclist 'overeat' when on the bike. I can vouch for that. On one of my few long (8hrs) WHW training rides I stopped and ate half a soreen loaf in one sitting...I very nearly puked within an hour and the rest of ride was a HUGE struggle as my tum stopped accepting anything...including plain water. I later discovered that whilst soreen loaf is a great thing to eat it's stuffed with carbs and my tum probably just gave up trying to digest anything. I was a total mess by the end...Mrs Rossco wasn't amused!
I'm now 'training' for a 10ish hour ride on the Great Glen Way and I've decided to follow the British cycling recommendations re eating / drinking 60-70g of carbs every hour at a steady cycling pace. I'm out maybe 3 times a week doing 2 shortish slots at a medium to high pace (2.5hr), and 1 long stint at a medium pace. I try to 'up' my time on the bike by 1 hour each week. A good handful of wine gums / nuts / fig rolls / small chunks of snickers works in the main for me. So far so good....If I start getting peckish, 1/2 a peanut / jam sandwich and a few gulps of milk hit the spot every time.
Just go out and ride and don't think too much about it!
Try reading The Paleo Diet for Athletes by Joe Friel. Lots of good advice on this.
20 mile ride on coffee before work.
protein butty when I arrive.
protein lunch.
15 mile ride home.....eat what I like in the evening.
There are pro's and cons to training empty - its a very old school train of thought and most professional athletes no longer do it.
^^^ this is true, when I used to race roadies "back in the day" it was an early season adoption to loose winter fat, been doing ever since (as per my comment above)
I'll add: Most hunger I feel realtes to thirst, I know you can't substitute food for water but if I feel myself getting hungry I just drink more water until mid/late morning - 1130-1230. This I've been doing for years and I'm well used to the sensations, I'd not recommend this to all unless you're happy to experiment at least three times a week and don't let yourself dip into the "bonk" once in it takes a proper couple of hours to get out of it and if it happens at work you're stuffed and will end up eating the desk and 11 sausage sarnies.
IHN - Member
How does not eating until lunchtime impact on peoples concentration efforts at work?
Ok, see above for the "bonk" symptoms, but I feel more awake and eager to get on with stuff rather than bloated and sluggish, maybe the caffine thats doing it but I can't not have coffee.
If this is your first venture into this type of training I'd say go easy, feel your body adapt to change and if you feel groggy or about to keel over then eat something healthy and drink more water..
I'm looking forward to hearing from the the New Improved Hora, faster, leaner, whippet like... 😀
a mix of coconut milk and water with himalayan sea salt.
😆
My experience aligns with Jameso's posts.
I believe steady rides without breakfast helped me shift some weight last year, I did and do carry a gel or two though in case the ride turns out quicker than expected.
I do a fasted ride 5 days a week lasting about 40-70 mins and eat a healthy breakfast (porridge with sliced banana)and I have found that is working pretty well, having managed to loose 30lbs so far (lots more to go)
I am going to give not eating until lunch twice a week to go and see how that helps.
There is a lot of rubbish being thrown around in this thread, and fitness circles in general.
The Law of Thermodynamics dictates that you must burn more than you input in order to loose wait - simple.
There is no such thing as "burning fat before carbs". Your body works on a first in, last out way. IE: Your carbs you ate for breakfast are going to get burnt before the fat you've stored over 20 years of your life does.
Here is a great resource for the science behind fitness that breaks it down into a simple to read way - great for a lunchtime read:
[url= http://simplesciencefitness.com/ ]http://simplesciencefitness.com/[/url]
The only diet that will help you is a healthy diet.
EDIT: the link posted is aimed more at body building but is incredibly applicable to all aspects of fitness and health.
The Law of Thermodynamics dictates that you must burn more than you input in order to loose wait - simple.
I'm afraid you ruined any chance of scientific credibility right there :-/
plython, what are your credentials????????????
I trust idave and solo......... 😀
TYour body works on a first in, last out way. IE: Your carbs you ate for breakfast are going to get burnt before the fat you've stored over 20 years of your life does.
What a load of tosh!
When I was a lad just after the safety bike was introduced, the hot tip was much as jameso says.
Coffee, then ride a loop that has you on the edge of bonk. Then breakfast on 2 or 3 poached eggs.
I've done it and the weight drops off with no other change to eating habits, plus noticing a definite increase in endurance and strength on climbs. (Lost 10kg over 3 months)
This sentence blows you out the water:
The Law of Thermodynamics dictates that you must burn more than you input in order to [b]loose wait[/b] - simple.
Quite a basic intro to the train low, compete high theory:
http://www.scienceinsport.ie/default.asp?cat=349
As said, not race pace intensity.
hmmm
i thought that what is used first depends on the intensity,
muscle energy and glycogen reserves are used at different times to compensate for the fact your body cannot process food quick enough
so therefore its more a combination of intensity + energy stores than just simplistic first in first out
•The first law, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy can not be created or destroyed; it can only be redistributed or changed from one form to another.
•The second law of thermodynamics says that the entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.
•The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system approaches a constant value as the temperature approaches zero.
Presumably Plyphon was referring to the first law of Thermodynamics in that energy cannot be created nor destroyed but only converted into other forms of energy. I sort of understand what he meant, although the wait/weight gaff is unforgivable 🙂
•The first law, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy can not be created or destroyed; it can only be redistributed or changed from one form to another.
•The second law of thermodynamics says that the entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.
•The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system approaches a constant value as the temperature approaches zero.
Presumably Plyphon was referring to the first law of Thermodynamics in that energy cannot be created nor destroyed but only converted into other forms of energy. I sort of understand what he meant, although the wait/weight gaff is unforgivable 🙂
And what is Himalayan sea salt? There isn't a sea near the Himalaya's. Its at Maldon!
Glyphon, if
then my bowels have been working wrongly all my life.Your body works on a first in, last out way
I shudder to think how your guts work if you think the above is true.
There is no such thing as "burning fat before carbs".
Possibly not, I don't know. There is such a thing as being able to burn fat more readily thus keeping whatever short-term glygogen stores you have in reserve for longer, thf maintaining a higher intensity output for longer. You still need to eat while riding but you're also burning fat while doing so. Trust me, when you're unable to maintain glycogen reserves as you're burning off more calories a day than you can eat, you can burn through fat pretty fast. Being able to do that and being used to it can make a big difference in longer rides, the recent HTR for ex.
Fasted riding is a great way to lose weight but it can lead to effectively eating your own legs.
I would always have a high protein/low carb snack before riding to stay on the safe side.
Cool - well, I provided a very well regarded text with my link complete with referenced sources to back up my claims.
All you lot have just spunked off on your keyboards without giving any such backup to your claims.
I'll happily eat my hat if you can provide references to your studies.
Read my link, check the sources and studies referenced in the text.
[I]so therefore its more a combination of[s] intensity + energy stores[/s] [b]many, many things[/b] than just simplistic first in first out[/I]
Only if you sprint up hills at 90% for 2-3hrs ) You do start to digest muscle for energy if you keep riding well past the proper bonk stage, but that takes some doing.it can lead to effectively eating your own legs.
Glyphon, ifYour body works on a first in, last out way
then my bowels have been working wrongly all my life.I shudder to think how your guts work if you think the above is true.
If carbohydrate, in the form of glucose, is still circulating in the blood stream following a meal and before deposition in the liver and muscles as glycogen then it will be used before lipid stores. So he's sort of right.
I remember starting a similar thread 18 months ago before I set my self a goal of losing the weight I'd gained in my thirties.
I've dropped 24kg so far (from 110kg down to 86kg) and am now thinking 80kg might be achievable.
I would say the majority of that was simply down to reducing my calorie intake but I have been doing a lot of riding before breakfast or fatigue riding as it's been referred to.
I do a mix of rides, either into work which is 25 miles usually or if working from home, a longer ride before 9am of up to 50 miles, which I can do without eating before (but not without drinking coffee!)
I'm typically in Zone 3 for my ride into work (HR of around 145-150 avg, where my max is c. 195) or Zone 3/4 for a 50 mile loop (avg around 160-165 with avg speed of around 30kph)
I couldn't say if it works for fat burn or not, but I've lost weight so I don't really care too much!
plyphon - Member
Cool - well, I provided a very well regarded text with my link complete with referenced sources to back up my claims.All you lot have just spunked off on your keyboards without giving any such backup to your claims...
What I put down was what I knew worked when I was young, and still works for me.
No one is interested in running a scientific study on the likes of me. Sports nutrition experiments seem to be done on exclusively on elite athletes who have a long history of training and high existing levels of fitness.
There's not really much for the ordinary rider - which may be why we see so much vomiting when we try to emulate the elite riders nutrition on hard rides.
There's not really much for the ordinary rider - which may be why we see so much vomiting when we try to emulate the elite riders nutrition on hard rides.
Extremely fair point well received. 😆
I call troll on plyphon, no-one is that stupid
All you lot have just spunked off on your keyboards without giving any such backup to your claims.
I'm not a sport nutritionist so I won't start posting links from either side of any POV as I don't have the knowledge to evaluate them. Reading the basics and then real-world experience says that fasted riding is part of how I got a better understanding of how the body reacts to different fuelling (or lack of) methods. It changed when and what I eat during rides and was part of a period of weight loss and better cycling performance. Put into practice, I've seen good results that I could refer to, not just anecdotes. That's all the back-up I need, after all it was just an opinion and experience shared )
From a personal, subjective approach it's hard to get a good idea of what is happening with the diet/energy/weightloss balance as there isn't a lot of consistency as to when and how much riding I do - even though I do a lot of riding in a week. I also do a lot of eating. I could lose a tiny bit off my middle if that was important but right now I want to be fit for riding long distances and that means eating for the ride, during it and then recovery the day after.
I have experimented with different levels of carb input/energy output. One instance last year where I got it badly wrong and had a full on dizzy, fall off the bike, lose the ability to think clearly bonk after a couple of miles on a five mile commute home. I err on the side of keeping a surplus of fuel in the tank these days.
roscopeco -Did my cycling stamina improve? Again, I'm struggling to really justify this approach against proper training regimes. I did the WHW whilst doing the above and it was certainly wasn't a breeze. In fairness, i struggled time wise to get many 'long' training rides in, 75% of my training was very much concentrated on 1 - 3 hr stints.
I read this interesting article and it seems to suggest the majority of us cyclist 'overeat' when on the bike. I can vouch for that. On one of my few long (8hrs) WHW training rides I stopped and ate half a soreen loaf in one sitting...I very nearly puked within an hour and the rest of ride was a HUGE struggle as my tum stopped accepting anything...including plain water. I later discovered that whilst soreen loaf is a great thing to eat it's stuffed with carbs and my tum probably just gave up trying to digest anything. I was a total mess by the end...Mrs Rossco wasn't amused!
I'm now 'training' for a 10ish hour ride on the Great Glen Way and I've decided to follow the British cycling recommendations re eating / drinking 60-70g of carbs every hour at a steady cycling pace. I'm out maybe 3 times a week doing 2 shortish slots at a medium to high pace (2.5hr), and 1 long stint at a medium pace. I try to 'up' my time on the bike by 1 hour each week. A good handful of wine gums / nuts / fig rolls / small chunks of snickers works in the main for me. So far so good....If I start getting peckish, 1/2 a peanut / jam sandwich and a few gulps of milk hit the spot every time.
Just go out and ride and don't think too much about it!
That last sentence is the key. I'm gearing up for the WHW myself and did the Rob Roy Way (and a bit) over 12 hours just over a week ago. I ate every 1.5 - 2 hours and had wholemeal pitta with pate or houmous/salad, a chicken pasta meal I had prepared, numerous oat/fruit/choc snack bars, oatcakes and a lot of roasted almonds. A quarter into the ride I had as a (small) emergency measure, a bottle of lucozade. The day started with an enormous bowl of porridge and on finishing my ride I had a large sausage roll and for the first time in years, a chocolate bar.
I felt that I got it right with food that day. The WHW will be at least 6 hours more so a strategy will be needed to avoid having to buy a bigger rucksack just to carry all the food.
if something works for someone, it works - you don't need a scientific explanation for it.
and there are several people talking about low intensity fasted riding helping them to lose weight which is what the OP asked about.
I call troll on plyphon, no-one is that stupid
Go on then, enlighten me.
😀 looks under the bridge for Hora the OP...
Anyway I like to drink a mixture of Cindy Crawford's breast milk, mixed with Greenland iceberg water and a smidge of Pacific Atoll Mountain salt# other than that I just follow the Coppi training method
"Ride your bike, ride your bike, ride your bike"
Sometimes during a long ride I have to loose my bowels...it takes ages to find them.
#Only when I can get it
Rule#5 in conjunction with Rule#91 - No Food On Training Rides Under Four Hours.
That'll see you right 😆
Fasted rides are seldom executed properly. You should have fasted for at least 12 hours before doing them, they need to be longer than an hour really. Having your usual 700kcal+ dinner, going to sleep a few hours later, waking up and riding, fuelled by your dinner is not a fasted ride. If you don't need to eat when you get back, you're not doing them properly, either that or you're kidding yourself. Then if you are doing them properly the issue is that it is really easy to make yourself ill. Unless you have a coach who is monitoring what you are doing including an overview of what your are eating, they're probably not a good idea.
Remember, the proportion of fab metabolised at z2 is far higher than in z4, however the absolute amount is about the same. To word that differently, 2x20 minute z4 efforts will probably have about the same metabolic use of fats as an hour 'fat burn ride' with far higher use of carbs as fuel, in addition. If fat utilisation is basically the same and carbohydrate utilisation is higher for the z4 efforts, it's obvious which one is going to have greater efficacy in improving performance and will have a greater calorific expenditure. Fit your diet to your training, not the other way round. Carbohydrates are good things, just keep 'em low g.i. !
You should have fasted for at least 12 hours before doing them, they need to be longer than an hour really. Having your usual 700kcal+ dinner, going to sleep a few hours later waking up and riding, fuelled by your dinner is not a fasted ride.
Useful. Is this based on how long it takes to metabolise food and how long you can store glycogen before it's deposited as fat? Fasted for 12hrs = how long since eating a full meal?
What I tend to do is dinner at 7pm, bed by 11, ride at 7-8am for ~2hrs after being up for an hour or so. Pace is what I'd do for a long ride.
Useful. Is this based on how long it takes to metabolise food and how long you can store glycogen before it's deposited as fat?
Not 100% sure, it's just something someone I know with a phd in sports' nutrition told me. Basically the idea is that your glycogen stores are empty or nearly empty when you start the ride, so that it gives you no option other than to use fat as a fuel. Therefore there's no actual need to fast if you want to improve fat utilisation, you just need to control intensity properly and do it for a long time. The efficacy compared to shorter, more intense efforts in improving performance is very low though. They're a thing for endurance/ultra-endurance athletes really where fat utilisation is v important.
OK. Wasn't sure if it was that or blood sugar levels etc. ?I think glycogen is said to be stored for around 6hrs before processing as fat reserves, so with a few hours digestion etc 12hrs makes sense. I know if I eat a good low fat, carb heavy meal at the usual dinner time my legs feel full of go early the next morning, less than 12hrs after eating, but if I wait till 12 mid day or later to ride I feel pretty normal.
Good point on fat / carbs splits at various paces. If you were looking just to shift weight the opinions seem to be do more 1hr turbo sessions at z4-5 if up to it, will do more for your fitness overall too. If you're looking to improve endurance through better fuel efficiency the early am on empty thing seems to have positive effects, yet being able to ride at a higher 'base' rate via HIT will also help. I couldn't say which of those was most effective to me, but I did start with the fasted rides and move onto HIT to add to that once my endurance was at a basically sound level.
I think it's more to do with insulin than anything, if you're fasted insulin is v low, if insulin is v low a higher proportion of energy used will come from fat. More fat used means your fat utilisation will improve. Could be wrong though.
Thanks for your comments ollie51. I would agree with most of what you say, especially about high intensity rides burning fat. There is also the "after burn" effect where mitochondrial activity remains high following high intensity activity and therefore contributes to calories use.
I've bled hundreds of patients following an overnight fast and tested glucose and lipid levels. 12 hours post prandial is usually enough to reduce to a baseline level.
I doubt very much glycogen levels will fall to almost nothing following a 12 hour fast, but will need to check my science.
Thanks ollie + jobro.
I doubt very much glycogen levels will fall to almost nothing following a 12 hour fast, but will need to check my science.
They won't unless they are used, maybe it has something to do with availability? Can't be insulin because it doesn't take that long to fall. Like I said, I not sure!
I am in no way any sort of expert, i did my degree in P.E. but that was 20 years ago and many things and thought processes have changed.
Firstly i would really recommend this book:
It is written by Michael Hutchinson who was/is a world class time-trialler it is explains a lot of the science really well and in an amusing and interesting way, including a lot of what Team Sky have got right and how even many pro's are set in their ways and have bad habits and debunks a lot of the myths.
Personally, I think that the best way to get "fit" and too lose weight is to keep the body guessing and really vary your training, so one or two 90 minute zone 2 fasted rides in the mornings. On your long rides at the weekend, do one as a zone 2 ride, the other long ride as mostly zone 3 with sprints/ hill climbs mixed in and then a few sessions on turbo or stationary bike, one of 10 mins warm up and down, with 40 minutes (or more) at threshold and a second session of HIIT training where you are really training anaerobically.
If you do nothing but long slow rides, then surpringly you become really good at long slow rides, if you mix it up then I think you get the advantages of each type of training, trying to start using fat more as a fuel but also really getting your metabolism firing with the High intensity stuff.
I also think that the worst thing you can do is "diet", if you really reduce calories down with a boring diet, then firstly the will power won't last long, secondly after a few weeks of training you'll struggle to have the energy to ride much. Best to have eat properly but to enjoy your food too, let the weight come off slowly and make sure you eat at the right times, so making sure that refuel in the first 30 minutes after exercise, not eating loads of carbs last thing at night etc.
Proper fat burning rides require extensive colonic irrigation beforehand.
Proper fat burning rides require extensive colonic irrigation beforehand
I think you're talking out your ar*e
Just ordered that book looks good!
The other thing that is guaranteed to help with going faster and losing weight?
Give up alcohol.
Have a read of Barry Murray's site, specifically his blog - http://www.optimumnutrition4sport.com/
He currently works with the BMC Development Squad, and is something of an expert on racing and training fasted and boosting fat burning. I know that he races ultramarathons in a fasted state and what he doesn't know about the subject probably isn't worth knowing!
[i]Can't be insulin because it doesn't take that long to fall. Like I said, I not sure![/i]
Insulin is released in reaction to elevated glucose levels in the blood. When that glucose is either used or stored, with the subsequent lowering of blood glucose. Insulin levels also then subside. The higher the glycemic load of the food consumed, the more insulin will be released and the longer it will take for insulin levels to subside, while your body processes all that glucose.
Looking at stored fat. When insulin is elevated (high blood glucose levels), fat cells are prevented from releasing fat into the blood stream.
However, once insulin levels subside in respect to lower blood glucose levels. Then fat cells are permitted to release fat into the blood stream where it can be used as a source of energy.
So going with all the above, fat will be most readily used for energy, when blood insulin levels are low. Hence why fasted exercise will see more fat used for energy, as so many here have reported.
I'll do a 40-50 mile ride, during a couple of hours, fasted, no issues.
As others have mentioned. Be careful watching the 'Pro' cyclists. Unlike a lot of folk, during the season, Pro-cyclists should already be at what they consider to be their optimal weight and body fat percentage, to achieve their best performance. Which is very much different to Joe Public wanting to shed a few kilos of lard before the hols, etc.
[i]Only if you sprint up hills at 90% for 2-3hrs ) You do start to digest muscle for energy if you keep riding well past the proper bonk stage, but that takes some doing.[/i]
You'll only "sprint" up hills for 2-3 hours, at 90% of what you're capable of in that moment. [b]Not[/b] 90% of you're all-out capability.
As for gluconeogenesis, you're unlikely to induce this condition on a single ride. As mentioned above, nature's way to stop the silly boys and girls from going too far on empty, is to hand them a good dose of the bonk.
Which as some here have reported. Does its job of stopping you until your body can catch up, with the help of 11 sausage sarnies.
😉
I find Chip's recalling his bonking storey of riding into the tent to purchase all the cakes he could get for a fiver. Quite amusing.
I find Chip's recalling his bonking storey of riding into the tent to purchase all the cakes he could get for a fiver. Quite amusing.
I ride with a mate (Boltonjon) on here, who is in a different fitness league to me, but due it being the New Year period and i think a bit of alcohol related lowering of blood sugar, we did the Spam Challenge on Salisbury Plain and one of my lasting memories as he strted to bonk was pleading a marshall and offering him cash for some of his wife's xmas cake he'd bought for his lunch.
The method I use doesn't require the reading of any scientific reports, measuring of food, or counting of calories.
It is more than likely not an optimum but does that really matter if it is so simple?
Just do what you normally do except for the ride before breakfast and the actual breakfast.
[i]as he strted to bonk was pleading a marshall and offering him cash for some of his wife's xmas cake he'd bought for his lunch.[/i]
Aye, the bonk is a terrible thing. Turns any of us into a quivering wreck. And hopefully a lesson to be remembered...
in answer to the OP - nuts
[i]in answer to the OP - nuts[/i]
Do you enjoy your nuts, pre, during or apres-ride ?
at all times - although I'm not fond of that kind of thin brown husk that adheres to the kernel after removing the shell, I generally tend to scrape it off with my fingernail.. hence you'll often find me stood around in the woods and hills scratching my nuts
Still laughing at coconut and Himalayan sea salt.
By the way, don't be tempted by paleo stuff, utter bilge.
This....:
http://www.thegreatcourses.co.uk/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1950
was very good, available on audible. Always look for a dietician for real advice, they're professionals. I'm a sports nutritionist and so is everybody else. Not a legally protected title see....
[i]hence you'll often find me stood around in the woods and hills scratching my nuts[/i]
Well that discounts you eating your nuts during the ride.
Edit:
Do you roast and salt your own, or do have someone else do that for you ?
I prefer my nuts to be au naturale
By the way, don't be tempted by paleo stuff, utter bilge.
Evidence?
[i]I prefer my nuts to be au naturale[/i]
That's before you've scraped them with your fingernail ^^^^
I've tried a kebab either before or during, but never post-ride.