[Closed] Repairable or an ex-frame?

Ex in my opinion but I have no experience or real world knowledge of this...

I'd scrape the paint off first and have a closer look.

Looks like a stray pube

For me I would call that an ex claim on your house insurance for a replacement?

we could weld that up stronger than it was no problem...

If you remove the paint you won't be able to see anything. I would mark it with a stanley knife at the uppermost point across the way and then monitor it to see if it gets any worse.

I would also be looking for a new frame, is it an intense?

Chances of it cracking in two are slim, still it would be messy if it did.

Everyone else reading this, always check all the welds and the area close to them when you buy a frame or bike, it's a bit of a pain but not as bad an losing out on your investment.

You might be able to buy a new front end or a damaged frame that has a front end that's OK.

For what it's worth, I hope that helps.

I'd remove the paint too, it may just be a crack in the paint rather than the tube underneath. Most cracked bikes I've seen have had an obvious crack in the tube under the paint if it's truly dead.

Chances of it cracking in two are slim

Ummm bollocks. This is really poor advice and possibly ruddy dangerous, I havn't joined in the Kasae bashing before but this is really quite a dickhead thing to say, what exactly do you know about fatigue to say this Kasae? I'll tell you, eff all.

Thats is a stage two crack, its growing, and it's going to end in fracture, and it will be messy(OK the crack in theory could arrest, but it probably won't). Don't ride it any more. You could try welding it, but if it was heat treated post weld then your weld will be pretty poor compared to the manufacturers original, but it's worth a try, just monitor the weld carefully after although I wouldn't do this, just accept it and get a new one. Paint looks in good nick, is it a new ish frame or has it been powder coated/painted?

Can't say I really fancy riding it so I think it'll be written off...
May scrape the paint off and see if I can see anything underneath - it was powder coated just before I bought it so I guess it could just be a crack in the paintwork.

Hmm maybe they powder coated it to hide the crack? Three rides seems a little short to grow a crack of that magnitude, unless they were 8 hour epics?
It's a salient lesson in one of several reasons not to buy a refinished powder coated frame.

Te frame is dead, so work the crack up nice and large so that it is near failure. Cover it up with tippex and build the bike up with cheap and left over parts. Then leave it locked up at the top of a steep hill, with good front but poor rear brakes. Wait for thief.

toys19 - Member

Chances of it cracking in two are slim

Ummm bollocks. This is really poor advice and possibly ruddy dangerous, I havn't joined in the Kasae bashing before but this is really quite a dickhead thing to say, what exactly do you know about fatigue to say this Kasae? I'll tell you, eff all.

Thats is a stage two crack, its growing, and it's going to end in fracture, and it will be messy(OK the crack in theory could arrest, but it probably won't). Don't ride it any more. You could try welding it, but if it was heat treated post weld then your weld will be pretty poor compared to the manufacturers original, but it's worth a try, just monitor the weld carefully after although I wouldn't do this, just accept it and get a new one. Paint looks in good nick, is it a new ish frame or has it been powder coated/painted?

I think that what I said is accurate, the chances of the frame cracking in two are slim, first you would need to go through the rest of the top tube and then the bottom tube as well.

I also said I would be looking for a new frame and a few other things, however those don't fit your argument and you don't get to be right if you mention them and put what I said into context, so just ignore them!

In my opinion it would be very difficult for that frame to completely snap in two, but I would be looking for a new frame anyway.

You're a legend mate, in your own mind anyway 🙄

What kind of frame is it and how harsh where the rides?

Yeah Kaesae I didn't disagree with the rest of what you said so I didn't feel the need to copy it, and do you think people cannot actually read your post just because I only selected a bit of it? I dont have an argument, what you stated falls over on its own, context or not. If the top tube fractured the lower tube would collapse pronto, with possible dangerous consequences, so once again you've recomended that something is "safe" when it patently isn't. The way you bandy about stuff like this is what reveals how little you know about engineering/science. I'm not a legend, I'm just a lowly metallurgist. But you are a fantasist of Walter Mitty proportions. Go to college.

The whole point of missing out the rest of my post was to reinforce your point or opinion.

Firstly mr mettalurgist let us look at the facts.

1) How many alloy frames have you owned, for mountain bikes and how many frames with cracks have you owned or seen people ride on?

2) If the frame has been out for 3 rides and it has not cracked in two, then what are the chances of it cracking in two, before the OP notices that the crack is getting worse?

3) We have no way of determining how long that crack has taken to form, in my experience, they either form and widen over a long period or due to intensive use.

I would be very surprised if that frame snapped in two, not from books or from being a mettalurgist but simply from hands on experience of people riding bikes with cracks.

As I said and will continue to say, the chances of that frame cracking in two are slim, however if it does it will be messy and I would be looking for a new frame.

That is my honest opinion on the frame, it's not simply me calling other people names to try and discredit them or trying to prove that I am in fact right!

Who needs facts when you have anecdotes? I admire your certainty 😕

I had a similer crack on one of my old downhill bikes.

I had a hole drilled at each end of the crack to stop it growing any further, then a gusset plate welded onto the side of the headtube, much like a lot of frames come with anyway.

It stopped that crack, but welding it puts stress in other places, so it wasnt too long until I got another crack in the top of it.

I would probably just get a new frame

I'd sell it to Kaesae - after all there's nothing really wrong with it. In the words of the Black Knight "it's just a flesh wound"

Well I'm liking Charlie's idea. Extreme honeytrap!!!

I'd put it out to pasture to be honest, I've had a steerer tube failure and was lucky to walk away, imagine if the headtube goes at speed you will be hitting the ground hard.

Maybe use as a light use commuter. My GT with a pretty severe crack in one chainstay has been ok for 4 years now as a occassional pub bike/commuter.

Scrap it, mate. Play safe.

Not a current speciality but one from the past. I would definitely agree that your crack is at present freely propogating through the parent metal. It's growing at a point of obvious stress & probably not all of the crack is visible. Continued flexing & stress will make the crack longer & more prominent....if ignored, to the point of failure of the top tube. Surface breaking defects like this are relatively common on highly stressed triangulated structures. IE nodal areas on oil platforms.

Can it be fixed ? definitely. But you then have to ask yourself, is it worth the outlay of doing the job properly & having the frame re painted. Then monitoring the area for subsequent signs of failure in the heat affected zones of the new weld.

Sorry to drone on....I'd be looking for another frame 😥

D.

So Kaesae you are going against 100 odd years of fatigue research, carried out using the scientific method, and using your experience with your mates instead. Cool. I won't batter you any more, I just felt it was my duty to highlight you and your "experience " on this thread in case the OP hadn't come across you before and thought you had something sensible to say.

personally i wouldn't ride that. seen too many frames snap with cracks

Ride it till it breaks.

I can't believe you are even asking the question...

But since you are, just ride it, the NHS is free - although I'd use a full-face helmet from now, as the Dentist costs.

I'd be scraping the paint off then if it is a crack i'd be drilling a couple of holes to stop the crack spreading. This is if it couldnt be welded.

Well, I scraped a bit of the paint away and it goes through to the metal so it'll definitely go on the scrapheap. Previous owner says it was in tip top shape before being powder coated so looks like I'll have to put it down to experience and write it off - should be able to get a few quid back from the shock.

Think I'll be sticking to new frames with warranties in future.

there are a world of possibvle results.

best result it is the paint and you ride forever on it.

worst result it cracks at a crucial moment during a ride resulting a nasty off and serious permanent injury.

most likely something in the middle happens; now it's up to you if you want to chance it being good or bad.

personally i'd be retiring it to the shed wall.

Im worried now - Ive got a crack in my a55, will I break in two ?

Some frame manufacturers dont recomend after market powder coating
because of the baking temps used during curing.
Having had a top tube go on me i wouldn't ride that again!

Im worried now - Ive got a crack in my a55, will I break in two ?

You've got a hole drilled in it (I've heard) so that should stop it from propagating.

Trimix

Definately, how soon just depends on how hard you get ridden!

toys19 - Member
So Kaesae you are going against 100 odd years of fatigue research, carried out using the scientific method, and using your experience with your mates instead. Cool. I won't batter you any more, I just felt it was my duty to highlight you and your "experience " on this thread in case the OP hadn't come across you before and thought you had something sensible to say.

100 years of scientific research, into mountain bike frames made of alloy? 😯

Bobmac - good point there, I may live for sometime yet then 🙂

If it was mine I'd keep riding it and see what happens. It's not going to go from that crack to snapping in 2 on one ride.

I might even try the old "drill holes at the end of the crack" thing for a laugh.

But ultimately it's bound to break....question is: "when?"

Looks like Kaesae's going to keep digging that hole then....

There's no way I'd keep riding that frame, matter of time before it fails, only question is how much time?

Check the small print on your household insurance.

What make of frame is it out of interest?

maccruiskeen can you post up a photo of the crack, let us have a look at it.

It's all very well saying that frames should be replaced, but what if the OP can't afford a new one?

As for me and my mates I've just spent 5 years buying and selling MTB frames, about 850 in all. I also service frames and full bikes as well as all the custom resprays I've done.

I know a good bit about frames from hands on experience, no I haven't done a hundred years of reasearch 😯 . I have however come across a lot of cracks in frames and seen a lot of cracked frames ridden.

The chances of that frame snapping in two or the head tube sheering off are slim. The crack only effects about 20% of the top tube and none of the down tube.

I would think that you could ride it 8) but if it snapped in two it would be messy 😛 and I for one would be looking for a new frame 😀

Feel free to disagree, argue amongst yourselves, insult, or ramble on about nothing.

Below I have demonstrated the evolution of facial expressions from unhappy to happy, research that took me 100 seconds, enjoy!
🙁 😳 😮 😀

After every accident where I have hurt myself I've always said given the choice I wish I smashed or broke the frame/forks instead of me.

Rather loose money than my health.

I think thats your answer OP. Fix and chance or just stick it in the garage. It wont pay your mortgage if you fall off.

The crack only effects about 20% of the top tube and none of the down tube.

Sorry to be a pedant but it's 'affect' not 'effect'.

Standards please. Really.....

Looks like Kaesae's going to keep digging that hole then....

There's no way I'd keep riding that frame, matter of time before it fails, only question is how much time?

I don't think he's ever said otherwise, right from his first post he was saying 'keep an eye on it' and 'it could get messy'
Kaeses's advice is sound. It's just that some people can argue with their own shadows if they want to!

What my esteemed pal PP said.

I don't think he's ever said otherwise, right from his first post he was saying 'keep an eye on it' and 'it could get messy'
Kaeses's advice is sound. It's just that some people can argue with their own shadows if they want to!

Well despite what other things he said which are fine by me, he still planted (and reinforced above) the idea that it probably will not snap which I think is a dangerous thing to say to the OP who obviously wasn't sure.I saw all of the rest of Kaesaes post and it was all perfectly safe and sound advice, apart from the statement that

Chances of it cracking in two are slim

Sometimes people only hear what they want to hear, so they might have ignored the good bits of Kasaes advice and only acted on the bad bits. So imagine if the OP said "sod it well I'm just going to ride this because Kaesae with all his experience as a bike mechanic said it probably won't snap" and then it went tits up. Well I chimed in to point out why that isn't good advice, and why saying that when you don't know anything about fatigue cracks, how they form, grow and ultimately fail is a dumb and dangerous thing to do.

TBH ever since all he has done is dug his own hole, you and yer bum chum Cynical Al can jump in too if you like.

he still planted the idea that it probably will not snap

It probably won't. I'd agree. As it is, it's fine. I'd ride it, but I'd keep a careful eye on it as he suggests, and I'm only an XC rider, not a freerider/coach like Jedi. If I was JEDI, I wouldn't ride it. Horses for courses....

I was riding this, albit unknowingly:

That's a driveside chainstay, and that's the only bit of metal holding it together you can see there....

[url= http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2294/2516043856_1198285544_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2294/2516043856_1198285544_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/2516043856/ ]IMG_5525[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/peter_atkin/ ]PeterPoddy[/url], on Flickr

OK, alloy is different, but I reckon some people are too precious about stuff like this. Ride it until it's dead I say! 🙂

Literally PP? For the sake of a say £200 for a different secondhand frame?

It's an Intense Spider FRO - having done a bit of research, apparently the frame comes with a max rider weight of 180lbs.. fully laiden I reckon I'd be about 190-200lbs so was probably pushing it. That said, it was two very light rides (once round the park to set it up and once round Swinley) and one slightly tougher in the snow at Whinlatter at the weekend - no crashes though and I don't think the wheels left the ground except to put it back on the car.

I value my teeth enough to retire this one and put it down to experience. Anyone want to buy a lightly used Fox RP23!

Might drop Intense a note and see if they do anything like the Turner new for old scheme?

Blimey toys19 rough night was it?

I'd say you are digging a hole just as big as Kaesae, who I am usually dishing out some well deserved pwn-age to (along with PP, yourself, and many others).

Well there is a bit of difference in terms of how they fail. Typically the final bit between passing the elastic limit and total failure in steels is quite large - ie they can absorb a lot of energy and your pic above shows this. But that chainstay was still going to fail sooner or later (this is why steels are used for damage tolerant structures) . A good measure of this is what's called fracture toughness - for something like 4130 steels it varies between 50 MPa m-1/2 to, in heat treated condition, 230 MPa m-1/2 whereas in 6061 t6 its never going to be much better than about 30 MPa m-1/2. (Bigger is better)

PS - Al it makes more sense to shout at Kaesae rather than my friends or family, isn't this why we come onto forums? Anyway I don't really need to defend myself, I'm not trying to be "right". I am RIGHT. I'm not trying to pwn anyone, I just didn't want the OP to think it was a good idea to ride it. Given his responses he has taken the safe route. Happy Days.

probably just pining for the fjords.

toys19 yet again you alter what was said to fit your own argument, you are not correct or accurate, you only believe that you are right. I did not say that the frame would not snap, I said that the chances of it snapping in two where slim.

I also asked if the frame was an Intense, long before the OP confirmed that it was.

I would also be looking for a new frame, is it an intense?

I have seen quite a few cracks on Intense frames in that same possition and other possitions and they have been fine to ride. I would not ride them and I would not advise people to ride them, however if they did the chances of the frames cracking would be slim.

Yes you will no doubt have a lot of big words that will impress certain individuals, but most people will look at what I said and see that it makes sense.

You could ride the frame as it is and the chances of it cracking in two are slim, however if it does the outcome could be messy, I would be looking for a new frame.

One last thing toys19 buggy, dummy, out! 18 toys left!

PS - Al it makes more sense to shout at Kaesae rather than my friends or family, isn't this why we come onto forums?

😛

Making a lame joke about my user name doesn't make you any less of a pillock. I repeat my advice, go to college, you seem persistent, if you could channel that into some study you might make a decent engineer.

As for me and my mates I've just spent 5 years buying and selling MTB frames, about 850 in all. I also service frames and full bikes as well as all the custom resprays I've done.

I know a good bit about frames from hands on experience, no I haven't done a hundred years of reasearch . I have however come across a lot of cracks in frames and seen a lot of cracked frames ridden.

Makes you sound like a second hand car dealer selling cut & shut cars. "Sold plenty, never had a complaint yet...." Just because it is done, doesn't mean it is right.

Now! now!! wouldn't want to have any less toys to play with. Where's my rattle, AAHH buggy, rattle, out!

missingfrontallobe - Member

As for me and my mates I've just spent 5 years buying and selling MTB frames, about 850 in all. I also service frames and full bikes as well as all the custom resprays I've done.

I know a good bit about frames from hands on experience, no I haven't done a hundred years of reasearch . I have however come across a lot of cracks in frames and seen a lot of cracked frames ridden.

Makes you sound like a second hand car dealer selling cut & shut cars. "Sold plenty, never had a complaint yet...." Just because it is done, doesn't mean it is right.

We're talking about cars now are we, let's not stick to bikes that would get confusing. If I service a bike and it works, then I know what I'm talking about. If I service one and it doesn't then I don't.

I happen to have a good amount of experience with the Intense frames, How much do you have and try to stay on topic and not too let your imagination run away with you!

Stop arguing you two, instead, take the bike to the top of Cwn Carn and ride the DH course, that will sort out who is right and wrong.

I'm with toys - seeing a small crack like that on a guys bike who "just rode it anyway" (albeit over a decent sized jump on a bmx track) and then seeing the front end snap off - and then seeing the nick of his face shows how quickly a little crack can turn into a big snap.

Anyone whos says just to ride that is not the brightest. sorry.

ChristoGinger can you offer any photographic or testimonial evidence to support your claims? Or collaborate that your story actually took place?

ChristoGinger can you offer any photographic or testimonial evidence to support your claims? Or collaborate that your story actually took place?

Can you?

So you are just calling ChristoGinger a liar then? Which is funny because no-one on here has questioned your experience, I just questioned the validity and meaning of extrapolating from that.

It seems that you are insinuating that this type of thing is rare?

[url= http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=snapped+frame&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Mvj&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&prmd=iv&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=GKvzTKHgNM6HhQfy4uXKDA&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQqwQwAg ]635 bits of evidence on snapped frames here[/url]

Yet again! toys19 you have taken what I have said and altered it to fit your argument, I have not at any point said that these incidents are rare!

I have however come across a lot of cracks in frames and seen a lot of cracked frames ridden.

I did not call anyone a liar, yet again your need to fabricate facts is a sign of your desperate need to be correct.

I am simply ensuring that scientific procedures are adhered too and that this does not become an exercise in name calling and childishness.

As for showing clips of riders doing nose dives on their bikes, panicking and pulling the front brake, yes I see how that could validate your argument 😯

You do not impress me toys19, your name calling is childish and dastardly and is simply a means to draw people's attention away from your, week and poorly thought out arguments.

You are obviously getting desperate again and will resort to name calling again soon.

evidence to support your claims? Or [s]collaborate[/s] corroborate that your story actually took place?

I think calling ChristoGingers experience

claims

corroborate

As far as name calling goes: you're an idiot and a fool.

You see! exactly as I predicted, you cannot win with logic and reason or fair analysis so resort to character assasination instead.

toys19 - Member

evidence to support your claims? Or collaborate corroborate that your story actually took place?

I think calling ChristoGingers experience

claims
and asking to
corroborate
that it took place amounts to calling him a liar.

As far as name calling goes: you're an idiot and a fool.

Poor show old chap!

Is this the point on the forum where we gather in a circle around the protagonists and start chanting 'fight, fight, fight' and hope a dinner lady turns up to calm the baying mob?

Like most of the posters on here I've cracked a number of frames and stopped riding them. Having had one fail in a big way and walked away that was plenty for me. The OP has it right.

Kaesae I'm not trying to "win" anything, I'm merely being lazy and engaging in a bit of moron baiting and it's currently providing much amusement.

Is this the point on the forum where we gather in a circle around the protagonists and start chanting 'fight, fight, fight' and hope a dinner lady turns up to calm the baying mob?

Nah I'd be cycling off on my uncracked frame and K would be lying on the floor bleeding after impaling himself with his own toptube.

🙄

You two need your own forum really.

Kaesae, are you a complete retard? I've personally seen head tubes snap off aluminium frames, and the frame in question is a For Racing Only frame from a manufacturer who always push the boundaries of lightness over over arguably more important factors. Of course it's going to snap in two some time in the future! I can't believe people are even arguing over this.

well kaesee, I wish, wouldve made a fortune on youve been framed.

I saw the crack in his frame - admittedly with my own eyes.
I saw him jump the bike and land o.k - then the front end of his bike came away from the back end of the bike - seen with my eyes again.

I also saw his face once he eventually got up - again with my eyes.

But sadly no photos. damn.

Basically your a muppet questioning my good honour. I witheld from questioning yours considering all the mince about you on t'internet.

Just felt a word of sanity would be helpful for the O.P's safety and helping out a fellow mtbr.

Safety in what we do is paramount and a cracked head tube (welds around the headtube- before you say out) is pretty well dangerous on any bike regardless of material. If you would like to test the theory please get the ops bike and repeatedly jump it.

christo

oh and I've been doing bikes for over 15 years so top that 😉
edit - crap its actually more than that 🙁

next to the rows of new frames they sell new faces too 🙂

So because one frame snapped all frames must snap 😯 ?

Yes I see your point, as for questioning your good honour, I was merely trying to determine the actual events.

Still here is my opinion on the facts, I would be looking for a new frame. I believe that the chances of the frame snapping in two are slim but that if it did, it would be messy.

I saw a bloke with a frame that had more than 10 cracks in it using the frame for DH riding once and it didn't snap in two 😀

might be worth contacting Intense, worst that can happen is they say no, and Ibis have a rep for even supporting owners of used frames.

Hang on munqe-chick 😯 where has the rest of your post gone?

The bit about hard science and my saying something along the lines of it won't break mines didn't.

Aah well live and let live I suppose. I still think the chances of that frame snapping in two are slim and would just like to say to the OP, what size of frame is that? 😀

Christoginger I have no intention of having a go at you, I thought that what you said was a good point.

I'm just winding up toys19 for a laugh on my day off! he thinks it's funny and so do I so everyone is a winner.

As for the OP, what size is the frame?

to the OP

the question of if your bike will snap or not has only one answer..

no one knows.

thats the problem with riding a bike with a crack in it.

OP, meesterbond. How about I help you to source a new frame, I still have years of ebay trading under my belt and can find you something suitable.

If you're interested my details are in my profile and I'm happy to help out 😀

Don't worry I will not wind you up and I will make sure there are no hassles involved on your end if you choose to accept my help!

Ridefree!