[Closed] Reliable brakes

The Shimano M785s on my main bike have been superb for 5 years. I think I've bled them once in that time.

Shimano will just work until the seals fail - then you buy a new caliper or lever. that might be a year or might be a decade or more.

You ok get all manner of brakes mentioned here that have been reliable for people to be fair.

Hope are probably the most consistent once set up right it seems - and Hope provide all the spares / can rebuild the brakes for you.

Shimano are the biggest avoid for me - now had one micro leak on a deore mtb brake and now the seals on my road hydraulic rear brake has also given up (circa 2-3 years old). A number of Shimano brakes are also very sensitive for whatever reason to having a variable bite point.

I like Sram brakes but many don’t - old avids had a bad reputation (think mainly elixir era brakes where it was almost impossible in the real world to get a decent bleed) and some guide R’s from a few years ago had an issue with the piston in the lever swelling in heat. For what it’s worth I’ve had 2 x guide R bike setups, 1x guide RS setup, 1 x guide RE setup and now have 2 x Code R setups and no problems for me. Just strong consistent feeling brakes that bleed ok. I’d always pick a Code above a Guide as it’s not that much heavier but the brake just feels stronger everywhere.

Magura are said to have one of the strongest calipers going with their 4 pots but they can be finicky to bleed and the levers are a bit marmite. Instead of metal they have a plastic / carbon sort of composite that can feel a bit cheap and flexy and the bleed screws can thread out. If I were going this route I’d pick a brake with the 4 pot caliper but the alloy lever blade upgrade. I’d go with these above Shimano 100%.

Formula Cura seem to be getting a lot of love right now - a Cura 4 could be a good option. I’ve not run one myself but worth a look I reckon.

Surely you've answered your own question there OP?

Hope. Yes they're expensive, and there's probably a few week wait for them right now. But they're an investment, they can be fully rebuilt and not just chucked away if they need parts replacing. Tricky to set up, yes but once they are they just need a clean and lube every 6 months.

Yep, full circle.

To be fair I wouldn't buy anything other than hopes and I did recommend hope to my mate!

Thank you for the comments though, they have confirmed what I thought. That it appears that shimano are a bit hit and miss, as are sram and magura.

I've found basic Shimano Deores to be very good, especially if you put in sintered pads. The higher-end Shimanos with the fancy Servo-Wave levers need to be bled very carefully to make sure there is no air left in the reservoir. When they're set up properly, they work well.

For general trail, enduro and even DH stuff then Hope all the way. Just get the version that gives you enough oomph - thouh I use the Tech 3 X2s for everything and never felt underpowered.

Though if it's ultimate reliability and ease of fixing/servicing, then decent mechanical brakes like the BB7s are hard to beat. I've used them at BPW and not had any issues, and I know a bloke who's done the Alps on them multiple times.

I've currently got Pauls Klampers on one bike and they are as powerful as the Hope X2s.

Pauls Klamper

SRAM Code are pretty much fit and forget with good modulation and power and simple to bleed, unfortunately you still get some bore that thinks all SRAM brakes are rubbish because of Avid's reputation from 15 years ago.

SRAM Guide & Shimano brakes generally are really poor/ unreliable/ fiddly in my experience.

I've got some Tektros on a Surly that have performed well, but I've got Hope on both my good MTBs. Dead easy to service, powerful enough, well modulated and reliable.

I used to be a Shimano absolutist, but one year with a set of XT M8000 brakes changes my mind. Loved the power and modulation (maybe lack of it), but the biting point issue was a PIA, the needed to be bled often and the levers were made of glass. Went through several of them on various crashes.

Reluctantly got a set of Sram Code R in May 2019. Not as powerful as the XTs, not a fan of the very progressive modulation and the levers are two ugly lumps, but they're the most set and forget brakes I ever had. Need a yearly bleed at most, they just endure through everything not matter the conditions or neglect. The levers are also up to quite a fight, very crash resistant.

SRAM Code R... Need a yearly bleed at most

That's a positive? I've got 6yr old Hope X2s that gave never needed a bleed.

IME

Hope - Most reliable but these days the feel/power don't compete with codes or shimano 4 pots.

Shimano - Cheapish, easy to work on, but do require more frequent maintenance. I do a top only bleed every couple months - see the syndicate video on this.

Sram - More reliable than shimano, but when they do need bleeding it's a faffier process.

I was that bore, scarred by owning several sets of Elixirs which were useless from brand new. However I have been converted by a set of Guide REs which came with a bike , They really are excellent and haven't even needed a bleed. Ignore the E , they would be an improvement on most bikes

I've got an ancient set of Magura Julie HP's, probably 10 years old now. Only changed the fluid once in that time, and many pads. Maybe the Magura Royal Blood fluid is the key to their trustworthy nature.

Saying that, The SLX (786??) on another bike have been pretty good too.

I do a top only bleed every couple months

If they need bleeding every couple of months then air is getting in. If air is getting in, but fluid isn't getting out, the air can only be getting in through the reservoir (which is the only part where the fluid isn't under pressure). Either the diaphragm that seals the reservoir is leaking or the bleed port isn't sealing properly. Is the O-ring on the bleed port missing or damaged?

Always had Hope brakes, from C2's on. Always consistent always enough power, never a worry, pretty much fit and forget..As a brake should be.
New ebike, cost a bloody fortune and comes with 4 pot deores and from the off the rear was spongy.
I can understand that. New from its box bike,crossed Europe, a simple bleed and feeling firm.
Only, now they arent, and the front is feeling a little like its missing the power a 4 pot should have. Admittedly I've always used 2 pots, though 2 pot Hopes. but still 😕
The bike is heavy, and me these days perhaps a bit heavier than I previously thought 😆 but still, a 4 pot on 203mm rotors should stop very quickly and i feel even when i yank hard on the levers the power, even compared to 2 pot Hopes isnt there.
They squeal, but only when nearly at a standstill, not throughout the entire braking action. Told, and know thats contamination of the pads, but given the bikes less than 3 weeks, thats highly unlikely to be road contamination and have been told that its probably down to leaks at the piston seal, and if i can confirm that, I should approach the shop and have them replaced under warranty.
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I'm just being a bit lazy at the moment over that, even down to getting around to pulling the pads out and checking them for fluid, though there I already know that is indeed the case.
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Thankfully, and with prudence i might add, have a new set of tech 3 E4's waiting in the wings, and the reason im putting off having the shimanos replaced is its going to be an almighty faff around threading the hope hoses through the intricate internal tubes of the e-bike, and I'll likely have to have the shop I bought the bike from do it for me. More money more money
Previously I did have a set of saints that came on a bike and those were plenty powerful, but i did start to suffer from pad contamination after a few months, and ditched them in favour of some Hope X2's.
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I'm of the opinion that shimano brakes are 50/50 when it comes to getting a pair that work well and dont leak, and that is pathetic performance and makes me wonder if inexperienced riders continue to ride on them, changing the pads too often, just because of their inexperience and can maybe afford to keep buying pad at the shops insistence, rather than have the shop tell them the truth and opt for a better more reliable brake. But worse,and I think shimano are aware their brakes are 50/50 but do nothing and replacement pads make up too much of their income.

Shimano are the obvious ones that are hard to recommend. Some work fine and some don't. Is that was you mean by 'reliable'? I'd say inconsistent.

Hope have fans but personally I've never liked their modulation, and in my experience they aren't as fit&forget as people claim (like their hubs). I'd mention both to your mate (if I was you).

Which leaves Sram. All sets I've had (and fitted to mates' bikes) have been spot-on. They bleed well, keep their brake pressure, and continue to perfrom well over time, in my experience. This is Level TL, TLM and Code RSC.

Is the sram brakes sticking on in the heat issue solved? a mate had this happen to a set only a year or two old. I gave him a set of hopes to replace them

Is the sram brakes sticking on in the heat issue solved?

I think it is - wasn’t it just some guide levers but not all of them? I thought it was fixed on models going back a year or two now.

@dyna-ti just use the shimano hose thats already routed!

wzzzz - you can't because of the cross contamination of mineral oil and dot fluid even if the ends are compatible

I took a plunge and went for Formula Cura 4's - theyre lovely looking.. 🙂

In seriousness though, they do have bags of power and modulation. I had a little issue the other day with pistons sticking, but gave them a clean how the chaps at Geomotron told me and they're back to how they were.

If anything, assuming you get a set of brakes that don't need constantly fettling with, then the biggest difference to braking will be the pads you use. Some will bite and then fade horrendously no matter what brakes, some will do the opposite, and some are just right! I found that the Formula Organics were brilliant all the way through, but changed to SS Race Matrix and i can tell that the brake is doing more of the work than what the organics would have.

just use the shimano hose thats already routed!

As above, and probably just as good replacing it with the Hope spec one.
If Im forced to do it myself i was considering taping the Hope hose to the Shimano one end to end and slowly drawing it through. I can use something like a blunted nail to give the joint strength and stop it folding at the join as it goes around the bends.

SRAM. Got two sets (Code R and Guide) and both are faultless. Never bled them (they don't need it)  All I've done is clean them and (occasionally replace the pads) One set is 3 years old the other is only a few months though. so time will tell if the Guide as as faultless as the Codes.

Edit: I've also got a set of Hope X2 that have been re-purposed to the commuter with new flat mount calipers, and they've been given a new lease of life, and have in the past used Shimano Saint which were also great.

Is the sram brakes sticking on in the heat issue solved?

It was relatively easy to fix with a bit of sandpaper - but yeah, it was an annoying flaw, and they should never have left the factory like that.

2010 Formula The Ones. I've got 4 sets, had to put a replacement diaphragm in one and some caliper seals in another but that's pretty good for 44 years of combined good brakiness.

Reliability vs ease of living with is a thing, there are brakes out there which are a pain in the arse to live with, in particular ones that are hard to bleed, that can be really reliable when you get them set up perfectly, but getting them set up perfectly is bloody difficult so in practice they become unreliable. Shimano and SRAM to the front here. SRAM are still the absolute masters of making brakes that are brilliant when they work and just an absolute misery when they don't.

Honestly feels like we're in a worse place for brakes overall than we were a few years ago... Brakes mostly got really bloody good so creating a new model every 2 years meant adding more pistons and more knobs and dials and bloody stupid finned pads and shaving grams where you maybe shouldn't, which has added complexity and more things to go wrong more than it's added performance.

According to Enduro online magazine, you can't ride a bike park without 4 pot brakes, so you might wanna bear that in mind 😛 Dunno how we coped before (or now, actually)

Dunno how we coped before

Phase 1.
Hayes HFXs: massively powerful, but like a switch.

Phase 2.
Shimano XT 4-pots: Great modulation, nearly as powerful as HFXs. Put Hayes out of business.
Shimano Deore: Great modulation, decent power.

Phase 3.
Everyone else caught up, now there's a huge range of great brakes available. Everyone's forgotten what really shitty brakes were like.

After reading this thread i've just bought some https://www.merlincycles.com/magura-mt-trail-sport-disc-brake-set-102037.html

MAgura MT Trail sport.

I've been running SRAM Guide R for ages now on various bikes but can never get the lever exactly how i'd like. If i try a bit more fluid in it, i get rubbing i can't resolve, a bit less fluid, i get the lever too close to the bar. So in a moment of insanity I thought "lets try some of these"

Phase 3.
Everyone else caught up, now there’s a huge range of great brakes available. Everyone’s forgotten what really shitty brakes were like.

Strongly disagree.

I know brakes mostly work now but every manufacturer has made horrible decisions with their current models and there's unforgivable flaws in everything.

And then i changed my mind and ordered Hope Tech 3 X2 Disc Brake

I've had some Formula R0's for about 8 years with very little love given to them and they've just worked, I'm just now getting a slightly slow lever return on one of them but it still has plenty of power. I'd happily buy Formula again, even the Cura 2 pots have great reviews

I've got some Cura 4's that came on a bike.*

I'm really not sure if I like them or not.
Levers are a bit long and they don't have the same instant bite of the Saints on all my other bikes.
I'll persevere with them for a bit longer to see if I change my mind or until the new Saints come out.
The front brake lever had also been assembled wrong from the factory with the barrel adjuster fitted the wrong way round which gave a vastly different bite point/reach on the lever to the rear.
*Had a choice between Cura 4 and Hope and really dislike Hope brakes.

Wow, ok. Still the same conclusion - most brakes are inconsistent in their performance/reliability except hope.

Been really useful this as I have had such a varied experience.

Shimano are absolutely the worse brakes - so unreliable.

Sram have really poor levers (imo) from what I have seen in terms of being too fragile and the overheating thing is unacceptable. Having said that, I have some old trail 9 brakes which are rock solid and force road ones which are also solid. But generally it appears hit and miss with reliability across the whole range.

I agree with the bb7 comments, most reliable brake in the world.

Magura have given up even trying due to the new plastic levers.

Clarke’s are not worth the bother (failed after one winter).

Hope it is then.

i think Hope brakes from the mid 2000's put me off them. New piston seals every month.

Been running SRAM Guides since 2015 and both pairs have been faultless. Now on Codes as I wanted a set and to put the Guides on my HT. Again faultless. Consistent bite point.
the only time I've bled them is to shorten or route a hose.
Great amount of power and no fading. Don't see a reason to spend a fortune on Hope.

Shimano seem less reliable and been in situations where the brake lever pulls back to the bar without warning.

Formula seem to get good reviews.

Wow, ok. Still the same conclusion – most brakes are inconsistent in their performance/reliability except hope.

This is my experience especially in the last 10 years. I just don't know why they can't make something much more powerful. They'd be the perfect brake if they were better at the actual braking part.

Code R are very reliable in my experience (of one set, but used hard).

Shimano Deore were reliable for even longer, until I sold them in perfect working order after 5 years without a bleed.

Currently looking for a deal on 6120 Deore brakes - the 4 pots - anyone seen owt?

I've got 2015 Guide RS's, and other than replacing the lever pistons after a couple of years (the dreaded heat issue), I've not needed to touch them. Bled once due to routine, and just replacement Race Matrix pads. Absolutely spot on. SRAM rotors run true.

Same with MrsF's Deore SLX - bike second hand from a mate, pads shot, rear brake useless. New pads, bled, and not needed to do anything, despite the bike not used much. Had a very slight fluid seep from the bleed nipple that contaminated one set of pads, but done the nipple up tight, not touched since.

I've had 2 sets of very good SLX brakes in the past. But I've also had faulty Saints, Zees and XT.

When I was a mechanic in a busy workshop a few years ago I got a glimpse of the scale of the problem. You try dealing with people who just spent multiple thousands of pounds on a bike to find that their brake levers hit the bar and then pump up on every ride.

We had 4 mechanics who wasted hour after hour trying to make Shimano brakes feel good. At this point I don't care if there's a trick or a hack or a magical dance you can do to make them work. If it's that difficult then they shouldn't be on sale.

Congratulations to all the people who have functional Shimano brakes which they've never had to touch. Your experience doesn't mean everyone with a problem is wrong.

been in situations where the brake lever pulls back to the bar without warning.

Most likely air in the master cylinder reservoir so the system was underfilled. When the pads wear, the reservoir runs out of fluid. If you lean the bike over, air gets into the master cylinder and you have no brakes. They need to be bled really carefully to get all the air out of the system. I've had brakes that felt good after the first bleed, but I decided to pump a bit more fluid through just to check and air kept coming out even though the lever had a nice firm feel.

gave them a clean how the chaps at Geomotron told me and they’re back to how they were.

How do they do it?

Probably the same way that everyone else does but I never did. Pop pistons out (not all the way) use mineral fluid and cotton buds all around the piston, push back in and repeat on the rest. I'd always tried to just do it with brake cleaner, but clearly never worked. Was really surprised at how dirty the edges of the pistons were, so then not surprised they got sticky.

I know it's daft as it's common sense, but didn't think using the brake fluid was the thing to do.

sharkattack
Free Member

Congratulations to all the people who have functional Shimano brakes which they’ve never had to touch. Your experience doesn’t mean everyone with a problem is wrong.

Yup. even if the shimano whisperers can get them to work reliably, the fact that so many people can't- and so many of those folks have no issues with other brakes- is still a huge black mark. If you make a brake that even lots of time served mechanics can't work, then you've done it wrong.

Thanks.