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I think red lights should mean give way rather than stop for cyclists and so that's the rule I follow.
I think cyclists should obey the lights and stop for them and if they don't I should be allowed to kick them in the plums and so that's the rule I follow.
Your absence of logic does not make for logic. Stop being so self-centred - you are the problem.
TBH I kinda feel cars should always give way to Bikes.
Steam gives way to sail!
They've only to flex a toe, I've got to get all that KE back manually.
If I'm sat at some lights in my car and I see an experienced cyclist jump that red by setting off before the light goes green or goes when it is perfectly safe to do so then I congratulate them - especially if there is a pinch point further on.
Its made my life easier from the lights as a car driver to avoid the cyclist and helps with traffic flow.
Nope dead against it, for no other reason that it gives the driver an excuse to have a go at me...I don't need that when I am out cycling its too dangerous.
Setting off before the light has changed to green ?Hell,I do that in the car as well....... 😉
convert - Member
[i]
You shouldn't berate those that have the spacial awareness and skills to ride with fluidity in traffic, just because you lack them. [/i]That does make you sound like a cock of quite a special kind.
Thanks and perhaps you're right, but it's a safe and effective way to travel on a bike in traffic (if you know what you're doing). Some by-the-book member of the cycling 'community' taking up lane and traveling at a slower pace than the motorised traffic is more on a nuisance to them than a rule breaking cycle ninja.
I come across lights that are on sensors and do not react to me in the early morning
That doesn't count as running a red light, since the lights aren't operating in accordance with [insert correct technical legal phrase that I can't remember right now]. Basically, if the lights aren't operating, or not operating correctly, you don't have to obey them, there's been court cases and stuff.
/\/\/\
a rule breaking cycle ninja
Yeeessssss!! I like that title.
I can't help but feel that the negative reactions [I]of[/I] cyclists to RLJing has a far worse impact on the public perception than RLJing itself.
When cyclists criticise cyclists, all it is doing is strengthening existing negative stereotypes held by the general public. Coming from someone experienced, it acts as confirmation: Cyclists are idiots. And they should probably be run off the road. Etc.
What we really need, is actually some understanding of the needs of cyclists. We're talking here about jumping the lights a second or two before they change. When everyone is on red, and when there is no traffic approaching. Just to get that jump out of the flow of traffic. And why...so you don't get squashed.
If anyone feels they have to break the 'rules' so that they don't get squashed, there is a serious problem.
Whatever the reasons people give for running red lights when they're riding, does it never occur to them that if they cause an accident then because they broke the law, they'll struggle to make a defence and likely find themselves fully liable for the damages to the other parties...?
Or that one day they'll get their judgement wrong, not spot the car/lorry/another RLJing rider and leave the scene in an ambulance...
Running a red light to save 30 seconds vs bankruptcy/prison/hospital... I really don't see the risk/reward benefit here.
Just seems an obvious exercise in risk assessment....
in my experience, jumping the red just before its about to go green is the absolute WORST time to do it, particularly at urban crossroads. Why?
because on the opposite sequence, just as you dont expect it, some tipper truck is hitting the floor with his accelerator cos his green has just gone amber... DONT DO IT KIDS, stay safe.
RLJ a ped crossing with no peds? i have been known.
RLJ a left turn on red? yep. i have been known. when safe. just like 'murca.
Or that one day they'll get their judgement wrong, not spot the car/lorry/another RLJing rider and leave the scene in an ambulance...
You could make this mistake in judgement at any junction without lights. Should you wait until they erect some?
Thanks and perhaps you're right, but it's a safe and effective way to travel on a bike in traffic
safe for the person on the bike, maybe. but safe for the car driver who suddenly has a cyclist unexpectedly in front of them so brakes sharply, or swerves to avoid what looks like an errant cyclist. it's this selfish attitude that grinds my gears.
Yet again I'm amazed at the number of cyclists who willingly peddle the motorists mantra. Yes, jumping a red light can be dangerous if you're a complete idiot and don't look to see if there is any crossing traffic, as is crossing the road without looking. Funny though that we can teach kids to cross the road safely but not adult cyclists to go through a red light safely?
cyclists are in a group of road users that includes cars, vans, trucks, buses, etc. pedestrians are in a different group.
this is the way that the infrastructure is currently built, so like it or not, we have to abide by the same rules that apply to cars, vans, trucks and buses. this is what people expect. otherwise there is chaos.
Yet again I'm amazed at the number of cyclists who willingly peddle the motorists mantra.
Well, the law's mantra, actually...
Well, the law's mantra, actually...
One has no option other than to assume you never ever ever break the law?
...that you never exceed any speed limit, for example?
...or ride in places you shouldn't?
...or only mount your bicycle when on the public highway?
As I said, cyclists jumping red lights should provoke a debate about why they do it, what lessons does it teach us, what planning issues does it expose, how can we redesign our environment to improve the experience of road users generally, instead of assuming that the car is king and drivers must be pandered to at each and every opportunity.
Our urban landscape is dictated by the car, instead of by the people who live and move about in it. RLJing is a way of using that landscape which subverts the party line, which ignores the crap planners, and which works.
RLJing is a way of using that landscape which subverts the party line
You can make that argument if you like, but like the self-preservation thing it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny.
People don't jump red lights because they're anarchists who like to point out failings in our civic infrastructure. They jump red lights because they're a bit selfish and lazy, and they know they can get away with it.
If a man walks across a line in the woods when nobody is around to see him, and no squirrels, badgers or voles have had to slow down or stop because he has crossed that line, has he really crossed it?
I jump some red lights - Basically I do what I consider keeps me most safe. If I think a junction puts me at risk I jump the light. If I think waiting keeps me safer I do that.
As for what drivers think of me? I don't really care. I also don't represent the rest of the cycling "community", so if motorists draw negative conclusions on all cyclists because of how I ride? More fool them.
People don't jump red lights because they're anarchists who like to point out failings in our civic infrastructure. They jump red lights because [b]they're a bit selfish[/b] and lazy, and they know they can get away with it.
+1
as demonstrated by the above post
if motorists draw negative conclusions on all cyclists because of how I ride? More fool them.
more fool all of us, I think.
actions can have consequences beyond your own little bubble of a life.
+1 as demonstrated by the above post
Yeah - I'm selfish for wanting to be safe. How very thoughtless of me.
actions can have consequences beyond your own little bubble of a life.
Considering the metalwork I have in my leg and hip, you'll forgive me if I live with your disapproval whilst trying to stay out of a wheelchair.
I repeat, anyone that makes general assumptions about any group based on the actions of one person is a moron.
Brakes - Can you also quantify why jumping a red light is selfish?
At what disadvantage does it put other road users? - assuming of course that it doesn't involve cycling out in front of other moving traffic (which would sort of defeat the purpose of trying to stay safe).
Morons also drive cars. What's your point?
\safe for the person on the bike, maybe. but safe for the car driver who suddenly has a cyclist unexpectedly in front of them so brakes sharply, or swerves to avoid what looks like an errant cyclist. it's this selfish attitude that grinds my gears.
I'd like to think that a car that's stopped at a red light would have done all its braking and swerving already. Unless you're assuming that i just dart bout the place with no regard to other road users, causing untold mayhem in my wake? Fact is I don't want to be hit by a car, nor do i wish to cause other road users to have to take avoiding action. That doesn't mean I'll sit at a junction to wait for the lights to go my way if there's little traffic on the road. I'd rather be considered selfish than a gormless idiot 😀
And as for all the people that know what complete strangers think - how do you do that?
Got me thinking about the red lights on the commute to/from work, I've got 14 (8* in the morning, 6 in the afternoon).
Of those, 6 (3 each way) are "jumpable", the rest, absolutely no way, not at the times of day I do that route.
One of those "jumpable" lights is at a junction, and is actually safe to jump if you are going straight on. No reason to though, apart from being lazy/wanting to save a bit of time. 4 of them are non-junction pelican crossings, so again, if there's no pedestrians crossing/approaching to cross, perfectly safe, but actually only save you time.
There's one though, which is a crossing as well, that I'd say jumping it is safer than not, oddly enough it is the only one that I do jump.
it is [url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/preview#!data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-2.590758!3d51.445439!2m2!1f137.2!2f98.4!4f90!2m4!1e1!2m2!1sU99fT4XGesEKmw1yNAGdCg!2e0&fid=5 ]this[/url] one.
If the crossing is clear, and there is a queue of traffic waiting at the light, then yes, I'll jump it*, because that bend tightens as you go round, shifting you out of the cruddy bit of bike lane, which the cars & vans routinely encroach on as they take the corner, too.
Thing's that'd stop me jumping that light, simple, but an ASB on it, so I can filter up the queue and put myself in front of it, so the 1st car can't overtake me while I take the corner, but further along, where it straightens out & widens.
*if the crossing is being used, I'll wait till it's clear and cruise over slowly, and if there's only one car waiting I'll not bother, why aggravate someone when it's as easy to let them get in front as you pootle round
Morons also drive cars. What's your point?
2 points really -
1. The collective judgement - "Students are lazy", "the unemployed are all lazy scroungers", "he jumped a red, therefore all cyclists are gits"... It doesn't stand up to logic, and obeying the law will not alter the opinions of morons - I'll still be regarded as a git, but now I'm a git in more danger than I was. 😉
2. That I want to stay as safe, and as clear of morons as is possible.
I ride my motorbike and my bike in the way that (IMO) keeps me safest. (different approaches for both, natch) 🙂
I cycle 6 miles from north London into the centre and back every day.
I was in a position last week where having the car at the wife's work in central london made more sense than the alternatives, so we drove in. Even though I cycle that route every day and know that it's way quicker to ride, I was amazed at how many cyclists wafted past me, going south on the Holloway Road. Hundreds. It made a deep impression how obvious it is that cyclists are moving differently and more efficiently.
I think that there is a good chance that careful, safe, considerate RLJing (and there is such a thing) is at least as likely to leave a "floating voter" with the impression that cyclists are in a different category of road user, and perhaps some separate rules are sensible and justified, than it is to convince a "floating voter" that all cyclists are suicidal dickheads, worthy of contempt and reduced consideration for their safety. There will be those that have a viewpoint that can't be changed, as we see every day on STW, and in life.
Of course, a dickhead manoeuvre on any form of transport is a dickhead manoeuvre, and worthy of contempt, limited sympathy, and any and all legal repercussions should the worst happen.
Moral of the story is (like so many others) - Don't be a dick.
Thing's that'd stop me jumping that light, simple, but an ASB on it, so I can filter up the queue and put myself in front of it,
Can you not do that anyway?
Moral of the story is (like so many others) - Don't be a dick.
Succinctly put. I agree. 🙂
Not if there are people already queued at that exit, no, not enough room without blocking the crossing
I'd like to think that a car that's stopped at a red light would have done all its braking and swerving already. Unless you're assuming that i just dart bout the place with no regard to other road users, causing untold mayhem in my wake? Fact is I don't want to be hit by a car, nor do i wish to cause other road users to have to take avoiding action. That doesn't mean I'll sit at a junction to wait for the lights to go my way if there's little traffic on the road. I'd rather be considered selfish than a gormless idiot
Aren't you by jumping the light and getting further down the road giving the car chance to travel past you at an increased speed?
If both start on green, (cyclist in the box in front of the cars) The car would sit at your speed then move past.
Depends how far it is to the next junction. In London, for example, they probably won't catch you up.
Setting off before the light has changed to green
There's a GREEN light? I've normally dumped the clutch and gone by the time the amber's on!!