Recommend me a very lightweight emergency layer...

I'd be thinking a bit more laterally and going for an emergency shelter if it were me.

Like this.

Full length zip is a must, even at the expense of a few grams. If you damage an arm/shoulder you'll still be able to get it on. I accept there's a slight weight penalty and carry a Montane Prism.

The uniqlo down jackets are <250g and pack down small, packs down well, I keep it in one of the bottle spaces on my waist pack through the winter, if there's waiting around for mechanical or injury (or just a cold ride home after the pub) it's a godsend. Mine doesn't have a hood but they do them with.

https://www.uniqlo.com/uk/en/product/ultra-light-down-parka-450311COL09SMA005000.html

Full length zip is a must, even at the expense of a few grams. If you damage an arm/shoulder you’ll still be able to get it on. I accept there’s a slight weight penalty and carry a Montane Prism.

Hmmm, I was thinking similar about full zips. My conclusion was that could always swap it with someone else. But I think that conclusion was flawed as loads of people don't carry anything. It's probably moot anyway as very few duvet style hodies aren't full zip. But yes you've convinced me to strike off that criteria.

Prism seems to be the sane weight as my current Rab one

.

I’d be thinking a bit more laterally and going for an emergency shelter if it were me.

Mmmm indeed. Totally agree. The only time I don't take a 6 person emergency shelter with me is if I'm solo in which case a bivvy bag goes instead. But back to the jackets.... 😉

The uniqlo down jackets
Yep, down is the obvious option for seriously cold conditions but I don't reckon it's a good idea in this case for all round use. I reckon a huge percentage of the time I'd be seriously lifethreateningky cold in the UK would be when it's precipitatng, so down's out.

Shame really as some of the PHD stuff is seriously fluffy and insanely light:
https://www.phdesigns.co.uk/ultra-down-jacket-k-series

Mmmmmm 240g

Arteryx Nuclei FL is windproof, light weight, synthetic insulation and hooded. 325 grams.

I have one, excellent light weight outer layer.

https://arcteryx.com/cz/en/shop/mens/nuclei-fl-jacket

Split the difference in weight and warmth with a windproof polartec Alpha?

e.g.
https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/scott-hoody-explorair-alpha-synthetic-jacket/

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/mens-trail-alpha-jacket/p/187991?color=302369-187991

Prism seems to be the sane weight as my current Rab one

In effect, you might get something slightly less warm and save maybe 100g?

In effect, you might get something slightly less warm and save maybe 100g?

Yep 🙂
And I get to spend loads of money. All good 🙂
( sorry, sat at home bored shitless and doing that sad old man " substitute money for effort/ talent thing" that I do when I'm not feeling well and doing sod all [ Conti bailed on me this weekend [the bastard 😉 ].)

SHOW ME THE CARBON FIBREJACKETS DAMMIT !

Arteryx Nuclei FL is windproof, light weight, synthetic insulation and hooded. 325 grams.

I have one, excellent light weight outer layer

**** me. 280 notes. I presume you bought this *before* your Tesla tanked? 😉

I carry a Endura Hummvee WP Shell jacket.

Actually bought as a post-ride sat outside the pub jacket for summer evenings, but works well as an extra layer for anything.

Not waterproof though, just wind & shower proof and packs very small.

I use an Altura Peleton Transformer and a PlanetX Magma for cooler days.

First thing that comes to mind is something from the Castelli range, depending on what temp range you are hoping to cover, some decent sale prices at https://www.merlincycles.com/castelli-jackets-275667/?brand=castelli

Love my Montane Fireball Lite Jacket (although I wear it for walking, not biking)

Polartec Alpha is the wrong type of insulation for what you need. It's meant as active insulation, it's really breathable but it's not as good for an emergency layer, I'd stick with a more traditional synthetic fill. It's lovely stuff though

I have lined and unlined Alpha items, as well as many synthetic and down fill jackets/gilets

I normally carry an insulated gilet, I find it a very good balance of pack size and warmth. My regular biking one is the OMM rotor gilet, they do a long sleeve version as well. Mine is the same overall weight as many cycling uninsulated gilets (120g) and is a cracking bit of kit. Normally worn on the ride back from the pub. Fits easily in a waist pack, 40g primaloft gold fill

If I was going for a bigger day out in the hills then maybe a 40g synthetic fill hooded jacket. If it's really cold then either double up with a gilet or combine with a 60/80/100g synthetic fill jacket. I don't wear my down stuff that much these days, no use in the rain

When you pull the jacket out of the bag in an emergency, the first thought that goes through the intended wearer’s mind should be mmmmmm that looks well warm. I’m going to be OK.

Define emergency?

If you mean - "Oh bugger, that wasn't the forecast I was expecting" or "I'm going to get cold whilst I stand around in the rain fixing this puncture" which is a bit different from "Oh bugger, that was a bad crash and I now have to walk 5 miles to the nearest road", but all very different from "Oops, now I'm lying on the ground immobilised" or "my mates lying on the ground immobilised and I'm standing around waiting to the MRT to get here in a few hours time as night starts to fall".

I realise that the ideal jacket might be good for all those scenarios.  What I will say is that even the thinest of extra layers actually make a big difference for most of them (but not for lying on the ground) even if when you pull it out you think it's basically too thin to be useful.  Key to that is putting it on as soon as you realise there is a problem rather than waiting until you get cold and hoping it will warm you back up.

Define emergency?

Something where your blood runs cold, you have to really control yourself in order to stay calm. Thoughts turn to MRT, stretchers or worse. Someone is badly injured, immobile and may not live for the time it takes to get them decent medical care.

The other things you mention are all part of a standard year in the mountains 🙂

Edit to acknowledge that I realise I've contradicted myself. I want the jacket for any/ all of your eventualities. Basically stopping a packing/weather oversight becoming unfortunate, stopping something unfortunate becoming an incident, stopping an incident becoming a catastrophe.

That's exactly what I carry a Patagucci Nanopuff for (half way between your weight limits). It'll be in the bags on a two-dayer tomorrow and Wednesday.

I carry a Ron Hill pertex jacket in my back pocket and it gets a surprising amount of use.

But I also keep looking at a Galibier Colombière Pro Jacket
https://www.galibier.cc/product/colombiere-pro-cycling-jacket/

Just me that read the thread title as 'lawyer' and was a bit confused then....

If it’s for absolute emergencies only is the best solution not a lightweight synthetic sleeping bag and a big light plastic bag (ideally aluminised) to act as a one-use bivvy bag?

Another suggestion - one of those raw Alpha hoodies and the lightest windproof you can find.

I've got a nano puff air, but it would need to fit with your other clothes as a system as it's not remotely windproof.

Do you want a hood?

If it’s for absolute emergencies only is the best solution not a lightweight synthetic sleeping bag and a big light plastic bag (ideally aluminised) to act as a one-use bivvy bag?

I get told off whenever I take a sleeping bag 🤣
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/high-tops-in-lakes-tomorrow-yay-or-nay/

I do generally take a shelter with me as well. You're right enough that for a serious 'ckup a sleeping bag performs the stationary warmth role infinitely better. But they're too heavy to be taking always, and aren't any good for the " I'm seriously cold, but if I had another layer then I reckon I could make it back to civilisation without too much issue and no external help" type situation.

* caveat to say that yes I know once Billy is proper hypothermic I wouldn't be bundling him up in a lightweight jacket and telling him to MTFU and walk out. I'm thinking about the stage before that.

That Patagucci jacket looks great, but alas you posted just after I'd ordered the Arcteryx one from Cotswold. Kinda pricey, but my Arct saloppettes are still outstanding after 20 years use so hopefully they're worth it. ( and given this week's Rolls' news I think I can splurge.)

Tbh, if you're looking something to curl up and shiver in, you'll get more bang for your grammage with a lightweight down top than a synthetic - it'll pack smaller too. The downside is that it'll be less suitable for actual riding and less moisture resistant, even if it uses hydrophobic down. And expensive, of course.

In winter I carry a first gen Rab Xenon, which is 300g, Primaloft filled and fully windproof. Unfortunately they don't make it any more, probably because the 10D Pertex face fabric was too expensive to be commercially viable.

OMM's Rotor Smock or jacket is the lightest Primaloft-filled current equivalent I can think of, but who knows. PHD has a 330g Primaloft Gold synthetic-filled jacket, but it costs a scary £350. I suspect you're paying more for the ulra-lightweight fabric than the fill tbh. The OMM one looks about the same, but a lot cheaper. The Montane Fireball Nano is lighter still, but I suspect is somewhere at the point where the insulation levels are too low to be worth the weight.

Polartec Alpha is great for actual riding, less great for being sat around in particularly as brands tend to use a wind resistant rather than wind proof fabric to keep breathability high. Oh, I'd avoid lightweight synthetics that mimic down micro-baffles - lots of stitching reduces insulation and allows wind to penetrate, something you'll actually notice on a really cold, brisk day.

The advantage of carrying a jacket rather than a sleeping bag is, of course, you can actually move around and ride in a jacket, which makes it a lot more versatile. Anyway, a windproof synthetic jacket around 300g is good. It won't be luxuriously comfortable if you get stuck out in deep winter, but will do enough to keep you alive longer, and it's great for standing around in fixing mechanicals, eating lunch etc, and I've used it for riding during a freak -16˚C cold snap a few years back and a few times when it's been less cold, but I just wanted to stay warm.

Good points BadlyWiredDog. Just checked back, and it was indeed your points in the thread linked above that made me decide to get a lightweight jacket 🙂

I've got a Decathlon down jacket which is light, warm & packs down small - but you've mentioned synthetic insulation which makes more sense for the use cases you highlight.
They also do a synthetic insulated jacket with a hood that packs down fairly small & apparently weighs 370g in L size.

Only costs £35, so not something you would feel precious about & can leave it crammed it into a bag ready to be used.

Decathlon Jacket

once Billy is proper hypothermic I wouldn’t be bundling him up in a lightweight jacket and telling him to MTFU and walk out. I’m thinking about the stage before that.

Isn't that what having one of these (or things like this) in your bag is for?

https://www.blizzardsurvival.com/shop/blizzard-3-layer-survival-jacket/

I'm sure there was one reviewed on here not that long ago but, obviously, it's near-impossible to find

I use an OMM Rotor smock for this. No hood though.

Something where your blood runs cold, you have to really control yourself in order to stay calm. Thoughts turn to MRT, stretchers or worse. Someone is badly injured, immobile and may not live for the time it takes to get them decent medical care.

OK for that circumstance I have a 2 man bothy bag which weighs no more than the heaviest jacket you were looking at but is massively more effective.  I only carry it on big days in the mountains.

The other things you mention are all part of a standard year in the mountains 🙂

Indeed, but spending £100+ on a jacket just for emergencies would not be in my thinking either!  I'm more at the "black garden bin bag" and improvise end of the scale though!

Edit to acknowledge that I realise I’ve contradicted myself. I want the jacket for any/ all of your eventualities. Basically stopping a packing/weather oversight becoming unfortunate, stopping something unfortunate becoming an incident, stopping an incident becoming a catastrophe.

I think a jacket helps with the start of the list but only slightly reduces the issues at the end of my list, especially if the whole group are not similarly equipped.   in my much younger days I used to carry enough kit on a day trip that I could probably literally have survived for 3 days and come back barely hungry!  As I've got older I've moved towards travelling light (but I no longer rely on getting to a phone box to call for help, have better weather forecasts, etc).

I'd also recommend the blizzard emergency jacket if that's literally all you plan to use it for. But that also seems a bit of a waste, I'd rather carry a bit more weight for something usable to stop and eat my sarnies in

Athough the blizzard jacket isn't really that light compared with some jackets. My 40g berghaus hypertherm weighs 228g, not waterproof and not as warm though

I recently bought an Endura GV500 insulated jacket and it packs pretty small and may fit the bill, 245g for medium, warm, synthetic, has a hood etc :

https://www.endurasport.com/gv500-insulated-jacketolive-green/12936238.html

For proper emergency stuff, one of these (which I think STW reviewed).> https://www.blizzardsurvival.com/shop/blizzard-3-layer-survival-jacket/ < Or even smaller and lighter - mine regularly goes with me in the winter, and certainly on a hill day or a bike out of the way. IIRC, mine is 120g or so. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393980124533?hash=item5bbb0b9d75:g:Vh8AAOSwvf5iKcbL

Polartec Alpha is great for actual riding, less great for being sat around in particularly as brands tend to use a wind resistant rather than wind proof fabric to keep breathability high.

Yep, I find all Polartec Alpha stuff to let the wind in too easily. Fine whilst moving fast, but useless when you stop. I sold them all on via Ebay and now tend to carry belay style jackets where the shell is really windproof as they're designed for sitting still in.

I usually wear a Montane Featherlite as a top layer in the winter assuming it's not raining, and then carry an extra fleece that i can put on underneath if stationary for a while.
Plastic bivibag or space blanket buried somewhere in the saddlepack in case it's more serious

Moderately intetesting vid here....

I recently bought myself a montane antifreeze jacket like this:

https://montane.com/products/montane-mens-anti-freeze-packable-hooded-down-jacket

It was 80 notes in the factory shop. It’s actually not as warm as I was hoping. Walking home from the pub in what the bbc weather app said was -9C on Friday night I was glad I had my parka over the top. It’s great to keep warm while more active though. Shovelling snow for 2 hours in it yesterday I was warm but not too sweaty.

the first thought that goes through the intended wearer’s mind should be mmmmmm that looks well warm. I’m going to be OK.

It's not the lightest (under 400g though) but it's hard to beat the Montane Prism for this and vfm. Great warmth overall for the weight. 2-sided insulation in the hand pockets is useful. Brilliant hood design too, that counts for lot if sitting around in the cold.

Need deep pockets but OMM kit is often a go to for lightweight outdoor sports kit.

https://theomm.com/product/rotor-hood-jacket/

I wish I'd bought their insulated gilet instead of the Endura one.

I have a Montane Prism and bought it in the sales. It's a decent spring/autumn walking jacket but doesn't pack all that small and isn't all that warm really. My old Rab primaloft/pertex insulated jacket is my warm layer of choice when camping. Much warmer than the Montane Prism.

I have a Rab lightweight quilted jacket.  Around 380 grammes.  It works fine as an additional layer for stops.  Its nothing like as warm as a proper insulated jacket

I keep a montane flux in my bag as a backup bombproof insulating layer walking in the hills in winter, bit heavy for what you're after though. Move to a prism in spring/Autumn for the same task. Also tend to take the prism on rides too. Did today up around Dunkeld.

My current Prism is my second. Great jackets, great hood and pockets.

Just got a Berghaus MTN Arete LB Synthetic hoody to fill the same niche in summer and walking/cycling in warmer counties. No idea what it's like as it's a birthday present and I haven't got it yet, but looks like it'll work for me. L comes in at 222g.

What are you going to be doing with it @thegeneralist?

Layering. Merino base. Fleece mid. Un-insulated wind-shell top. If you're thinking of sticking something on when you're stopped then that's fine, but otherwise you're thinking sweat management.

If you've already got a shell, and a base layer, and a fleece and want more - get a wooly jumper IMO 🙂

If it has to be a single jacket within those constraints - Arteryx Nuclei FL, or OMM Rotor Jacket.

Personally I'll always have a windproof and/or a waterproof with me, so those can go on top of my insulated jacket to keep the wind out. So I take one of my active insulation jackets from my hiking wardrobe - Polartec Alpha or PrimaLoft Gold Active+ depending on the temperature. Unless it's a hip pack ride, in which case my OMM Rotor Gilet.

Layering for more options and fewer jackets that need to be purchased.

The only exception is going into the wilds and mountains in winter, in which case I take a 500g synthetic insulated belay jacket.

Good thread on this on the UKC forum

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/ukc/simple_items_that_might_save_your_life_spare_warm_jacket-757333

@dafoj thanks for the link.

It reminds me of Samuri's short story (off here but can't remember his actual name) about someone having a fatal crash when out on his bike. Very sobering and highlighted some of the risks I took. I still could probably be better prepared as there is always room for improvement.

If you want something on the cheap end to try I've got a Regatta Hillpack that'll pack down fairly small and is light too. Sits in my golf bag so not exactly life or death but I've worn it in sub zero temps and holds up fairly well.

Good thread on this on the UKC forum

Yep, that's where the video embedded above came from. And indeed what prompted me to go from " one day I really should.... " to Confirmation of your order...." 🙂

What are you going to be doing with it

Well to be truthful I think it was mainly a bit of gearfreakery. I bought the Arcteryx Nuclei in the end.
Tried it on once then stuffed it in the stuffsack into my rucksack. If all goes according to plan then it'll stay there unused for the next ten years.
It may well be a completely pointless purchase.
The fact is that I generally carry/ wear a thermal, a windproof, a waterproof and then either 2 or 3 more spare long-sleeved thermals on most of my rides anyway ☺️. Which is odd because I run very very hot and almost never have more than 1 thermal and a windproof on at any one time. The waterproof and 2 or 3 thermals rarely come out of the rucksack.

< Complete honesty>
I think I bought the ArcTeryx because I am old and much less fit than I used to be. I was splashing some cash in the vain hope that it'll substitute for some of the talent that I appear to have lost. I used to get joy out of doing stuff. Now I just buy stuff
</CH>

Hmph.

Yep, I dug out my emergency bag after reading about that lad’s leg break on the UKC article, and that YouTube vid shows how things can escalate quickly, even in relatively mild conditions. Easy to forget how different things feel on the hill when you stop for more than a few minutes

If all goes according to plan then it’ll stay there unused for the next ten years.
It may well be a completely pointless purchase.

Start taking a flask of tea and some soft biscuit things with you on rides? Then you can use the jacket for a warm stop on a hill with a good view. Best bit of a winter ride.

I wonder if semi-permanently compressing a synthetic jacket is actually very good for it. Down sleeping bags outlive synthetics because down fronds are more durable when compressed/decompressed - ie: don't break as easily, spring back more enthusiastically. There's a limit to how lofty you can make down because at really high fill power levels, I'm told, the processing needed means it starts to become brittle and breaks down.

I guess with an emergency jacket it comes down to whether you cause more damage to the fill by it being compressed or whether the repeated compression causes the damage. I don't know the answer - I'll see if I can find out - but certainly with sleeping bags, accepted wisdom is that it's best to store them decompressed and I treat my emergency Primaloft in the same way. That said, I also use it on rides more often than you might think. Basically for any stop in winter longer than a few minutes. Nuclei looks like a good call.

Possibly over thinking things. My Nanopuff kept me toasty on breaks last Tuesday/Wednesday, and as an extra layer in a 2+ season bag on a night that went significantly below zero (more ice inside the tent than outside it). Pick a decent quality jacket that fits, store it loose when you're not using it.
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Hmm yes. May be right about compression.....

I can't really vouch for it as it hasn't arrived yet, but I ordered this - pacakable, insulated, claimed weight is 5g less than the Arcterys - seems a bargain and I like the colour. Plus as a jacket that will be chucked into a bag for biking I'm happy to go cheaper.

https://www.sportpursuit.com/catalog/product/view/id/2499505

Then you can use the jacket for a warm stop on a hill with a good view

This is what I love about my hiking belay jacket. Stop for lunch wherever there's a nice view, two fingers to the cold and wind almost. No hiding behind a rock for a hurried lunch.

I bought a Endura GV500 insulated jacket, very warm and packs down small for cycling. I sometimes take it with me walking if I dont take the Prism.

I have nothing to add to this, but every time I see it in the chat page it reads to me as lightweight emergency lawyer.

For all those non serious and yet immediate legal needs....

I carry an Alpkit Heiko, or perhaps its predecessor.

Alternative was a Patagonia nano puff. SO has one of those and it is an ideal extra layer and packs up small.

What ever you get don't leave it compressed in a bag if you want it to perform at is best when it's really required. Also if you have been exercising hard and your base layer is wet then a fresh dry one will help enormously.

https://www.climber.co.uk/gear/rab-kaon-jacket/ Seriously good jacket and 800 fill power and 250 grams 🙂

Alpkit do a couple of 350g ish primaloft jackets that don't cost the earth.

I have one of their older ones and it works well as a bottom of bag jacket or it's "cold and damp but not raining out" jacket.