[Closed] Rearview Radar - Gimmick or must have accessory?

Not sure I get it either really. Though this bit did amuse me...

can detect multiple vehicles and indicates the relative speed of approach and[b] threat level[/b]

I wouldn't buy one but I'd like to try it. There's def been times in the past when a car has "snuck" up on me and I've had a wee wobble, normally in winter when I'm wrapped up and riding slow. I think it'd be moar betterer if there was also a small vibrating unit that you could install in your handlebar, maybe you could set the interval it vibrates to say 5 minutes - no cars for 5, vibrates at next one just to give you a wee wake up.

can detect multiple vehicles and indicates the relative speed of approach and threat level

Only sounds useful if it can deploy effective countermeasures.

Not sure what you'd be expected to do with the data either. Car fast approaching, high "threat level", should I brace for impact, ride into a ditch?

Only sounds useful if it can deploy effective countermeasures.

Need the Garmin Rear Gunner unit.

It wont work properly anyway. Its made by garmin. It may work briefly but then they will update the software and soon stop that. No way would I trust garmin to make a reliable safety device.

DC Rainmaker says he found it most useful on roads where he was going fast and the wind noise made hearing cars harder, and to give him a mental jolt on low traffic alpine climbs where he was concentrating on how much pain he was in.

I would be sort of tempted to know if it is one car or two approaching as I tend to move into the kerb slightly as a car passes then back out from the kerb when it is past me, I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

"It wasn't my fault I drove into the back of the cyclist officer! He didn't have a RADAR so he could get out of my way"

Not sure what you'd be expected to do with the data either. Car fast approaching, high "threat level", should I brace for impact, ride into a ditch?

That was exactly my thoughts.

Surely this just panders to the roadies who cycle with noise cancelling earphones in - gives them a false sense of security that they can be warned of cars approaching which they'd know about if they took out the earphones.

And imagine using it on a commute - it'd be on permanently!

I can't remember ever being really surprised by a car overtaking me as I can hear them coming.

Surely this just panders to the roadies who cycle with noise cancelling earphones in - gives them a false sense of security that they can be warned of cars approaching which they'd know about if they took out the earphones.

Do you not let deaf people ride bikes in your world?

A radar does seem over the top but when out on my road bike I often think it would be nice to know if something is behind you. Especially when on a downhill and the wind noise is high and you are taking a few more risks. I hate it when something comes roaring past you and makes you jump out of your skin. Normally those pesky motorbikes. Then again all the mirror contraptions look hideous.

So you have to tak your eyes off the road to look at this doohickey to tell you to be careful..."right" 😯 good work garmin!!
Top of my Xmas list...!!

I can imagine that it will be a useful safeguard when turning right (on uk roads). I have poor peripheral vision so my glance over the shoulder needs to be done very slowly in order to process the information. This device should help (but then again, a mirror also works and is considerably cheaper....)

Do you not let deaf people ride bikes in your world?

The former I consider to be actively doing something which is contributing to an increased risk of accident, the latter have no choice so make no changes to their risk levels.

Do you not consider being able to hear traffic to be a benefit for a rider trying to be aware of their surroundings? I'm sure those with hearing impairments would, in the grand scheme of things, prefer to be able to hear vehicles approaching if they could.

I can't remember ever being really surprised by a car overtaking me as I can hear them coming.

It's very rare they surprise me, but I generally can't hear cars, with wind noise etc. In fact I usually find headphones help as they block out some of said ambient noise.

I don't get what I do with the information when I hear a car either. I don't ride down the middle of the road or swerve without looking. Should I get off the road when there's a car behind me? Does a car sound different when it's about to mow you down?

sounds like there are not many typical roadie riders on here - it would be next to useless on my commute.

i imagine it will be well recieved by the sunday morning 2s up riders, rolling along chattering and blocking the whole road through ignorance rather than defensive riding

(always love a good headphones argument #lovethechoons)

I don't get what I do with the information when I hear a car either. I don't ride down the middle of the road or swerve without looking. Should I get off the road when there's a car behind me? Does a car sound different when it's about to mow you down?

As daft as it sounds, I can hear the difference in cars approaching whether they are further out in the road than me or are more in-line.

I normally ride out from the curb, not in the middle of the lane but at least in the left tyre track of cars. I find knowing cars are approaching allows me the option to choose what to do to improve my safety. Often this is nothing, sometimes it is moving slightly to the left/curb if it looks (or sounds) like the car is going to pass close, putting more room between me and the passing car.

Ive watched the DC review and dont think id buy the radar even if it was only £24. If i dont hear the car its very unlikely ill see the notification on my Garmin screen, i already miss the majority of segment notifications on my 520, even when the screen lights up. Might be more useful when a HUD in your glasses becomes more commonplace.

I wonder if it lets you know when you're dropping the rider behind you in a chain gang? That might be handy.

Technology company tryign to solve a problem which doesn't exist IMO.

I'd like to take them to task for this claim, which AFAIK is untrue

Getting Hit From Behind Is A Leading Cause Of Cycling Fatalities

The lifesaver and using your ears will serve the function of this device quite nicely. But that's skills training rather than selling stuff...

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here...

I think the Cycliq Fly 6 integrated light and camera is a much better option (cheaper too) - at least if an Another Moron In A Car (AMIAC) knocks you off, you may have some evidence. In the meantime, I'll wait until garmin offer the radar with an option that spits molten lead at tailgaters (or wheel suckers!!!)

[url= https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?533-Varia ]Link to Garmin Varia Forum[/url]

Most of the moans are about it detecting a vehicle approaching but not when it's tracking your speed. 🙄

There's def been times in the past when a car has "snuck" up on me

I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

most useful on roads where he was going fast and the wind noise made hearing cars harder

and to give him a mental jolt on low traffic alpine climbs where he was concentrating on how much pain he was in

I tend to move into the kerb slightly as a car passes then back out from the kerb when it is past me, I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

when out on my road bike I often think it would be nice to know if something is behind you.

You lot effing scare me. The answer to this is not buying a gadget.

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here...

This, I would agree with.

[swoons @ edlong, the riding god]

Gimmick, I have a knog on the back it flashes all the time, simple hey?

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here...

Ah yes, of course, the answer to being hit from behind on the open road is training. Training to do what, exactly? Teleport?

(And no, the answer isn't radar, either.)

So a cars behind me, I do what? If I'm going to make a manoeuvre I look then signal like any other road user

I tend to move into the kerb slightly as a car passes then back out from the kerb when it is past me, I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/local-news/driver-cleared-over-jesmond-physios-1367013

You lot effing scare me. The answer to this is not buying a gadget.

*swoons also*

How exactly do you figure out if a car is fast approaching from behind if you can't hear it? Because be honest, you can't hear them above 10mph. Especially the ones that don't slow down waiting to overtaking.

Heck the most scared I've been on a bike was when a HGV loaded with steel from Redcar came past without slowing with inches to spare.

Cycling into a headwind and didn't hear a thing.

Do you not let deaf people ride bikes in your world?

None of this really helps when someone drives like a dick. If you're changing your position on the road then definitely lifesavers, but if someone's overtaking you it really is their responsibility to make sure it's safe to do so.

IMO massively incentivising people to take Bikeability training would be the best solution to the problem Garmin have identified here...
Ah yes, of course, the answer to being hit from behind on the open road is training. Training to do what, exactly? Teleport?

(And no, the answer isn't radar, either.)

Bez - I totally support everything I've seen you write so I think we're coming from the same place on the safety thing for cyclists in the UK. My point is a gadget (being sold on what I believe is a false premise about where the risk to cyclists comes from) is not the solution. It disempowers cyclists by outsourcing the task of basic observation.

The superior solution is proper driving but this is a long term game, which there's currently not much interest in AFAIK and when I'm on my bike I can't control a driver's behaviour.

However, using my ears and eyes to stay aware of risks and giving myself time to mitigate that risk e.g. taking primary, getting off the road, making eye contact etc I can do something about and I can do it right now. All these techniques can be trained and that training is available already.

How exactly do you figure out if a car is fast approaching from behind if you can't hear it? Because be honest, you can't hear them above 10mph. Especially the ones that don't slow down waiting to overtaking.

I'm very, very, very far from being a "riding god" but I can think of a way of detecting things that are behind you that don't rely on either hearing or radar.

Your hearing is better than mine then.

The vehicles which make me jump most commonly are motorbikes. They usually give plenty of room, but some are just ****ing loud. I hear them coming, but that doesn't really help.

I definitely find at 20mph it's bloody hard to hear traffic. I'm ok with that. In probably 50,000 miles on public roads in London and the south east I have been hit from behind precisely never. Actually that's not true... a woman tried to squeeze between me and some oncoming traffic once and hit my hand with her wing mirror. Had I known she would do this I still wouldn't have ridden at full bore into the parked cars beside me...

It is funny how people's experiences differ. I am genuinely struggling to think of an occasion when I haven't heard a car behind me wind or no wind. Even a Prius makes a lot of road noise.

I think it's that I don't really watch out for them, rather than a specific "not noticing". There's virtually always a car passing frankly, I assume they won't hit me and get on with my ride. I look over my shoulder before I make a manoeuvre, even if I'm convinced there's no one there.

The superior solution is proper driving but this is a long term game, which there's currently not much interest in AFAIK and when I'm on my bike I can't control a driver's behaviour.

Mm, the better solution is infrastructure of course, followed by interventions on the car, followed by taking crap drivers off the road, but yes.

However, using my ears and eyes to stay aware of risks and giving myself time to mitigate that risk e.g. taking primary, getting off the road, making eye contact etc I can do something about and I can do it right now. All these techniques can be trained and that training is available already.

Sure, and [url= https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/the-collision-that-never-happened/ ]I'm not one to argue against defensive riding[/url], but this is specifically about being hit from behind on the open road. There's really not a lot you can do about that, no matter how experienced and smart you are, unless you're going to dive onto the verge at the sound of every approaching vehicle. Yes, you can look round when you do get the chance (though I don't think eye contact is a feasible strategy here), but it doesn't often tell you much; you can listen for a falling engine note, but that's no use in the many cases where there's no deceleration… Of all the cases I've read about where people have been struck from behind on the open road I don't recall any where they could have obviously mitigated the risk in any way other than simply not being there. Fundamentally, I think we all go out on country roads with the acceptance that today might be the day our number's up. I know I do: the chance of it happening may be tiny, but—despite a quarter of a century of experience and a lot, a real lot, of thinking about it—there's simply nothing I can do about it except not be there.

Of all the cases I've read about where people have been struck from behind on the open road I don't recall any where they could have obviously mitigated the risk in any way other than simply not being there

I gather you have a better knowledge of the stats than me, but what % of cyclists getting hurt is from behind rather than the side? I thought the data showed that most incidents were are junctions?

This is why I have a problem with this device - it's suggesting it's a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist, as few cyclists are hit from behind. I also agree with your point that there's not always a lot you can do when a car does come up from behind - in which case whether the warning comes from your eyes, ears or this gadget, you're still hit!

If Garmin could link this to a seatpost mounted rearward firing EMP Generator they could be on to a winner.

I don't know if I'm missing something here, but ISTM there's already a device available which provides pretty much all the functionality of this for a lot less money:

[img] [/img]

Surely part of the advantage to having this unit fitted is the increasing pulse rate as a vechile approaches.

This "should" at least make your presence more visible to the passing motorist, and it just might be enough to avoid a collision.

I'm tempted for this reason alone.
Regards

Denis

Maybe if it logged the oncoming driver out of Facebook, then they may have a chance of spotting the increased led flash

"I tend to move into the kerb slightly as a car passes then back out from the kerb when it is past me, I have sometimes been surprised by a second car closely following the first."

always shoulder check for a 2nd car, always check for trailers

as to the device - I use a mirror with wind noise you often can't hearing fast approaching vehicles - the ones that are intent on passing close and fast are the ones you want to know about - if you are riding say 1m out from the road edge to make yourself very visibly a road user then you do have some room to move across when it looks like a close pass will happen

the relatively busy roads of the UK may not be its main market - here in Aus' rural light traffic roads can be dangerous as drivers are tired/stoned/dumb/on face book^^^/don't care/etc - suspect US is similar

always shoulder check for a 2nd car, always check for trailers

Srsly? I'd spend more time looking behind me than forwards!

Has anyone either bought or made up some of those "cat's ears" which attach to your helmet straps and supposedly reduce wind noise ?

They claim that most [i]fatalities[/i] are from behind, which might well be true. You're unlikely to be hit from behind but if you are, you're generally stuffed.

As above, get a mirror like every other road user?

Oh wait, they don't look cool. Lets spend 50x more on a gadget.

I can't remember ever being really surprised by a car overtaking me as I can hear them coming.

Hmm no Teslas around your way then 🙂

I don't think its for everyone but I can see the benefit tbh....

Its Just more info about whats happening around you which if you were in training mode you may inadvertently miss and depending on the range it may be able to see further than you.

My m8 just came back from a road ride where due to lack of local knowledge 3 of them went down a big hill fast and weren't expecting a set of tight curves, so 2 ended in the bushes and 1 needed clean bibs.

I helpfully pointed out that if he had a Garmin he'd have seen on the display that the hill didn't go up and down and could have approached it differently 🙂

You don't have to rely on this stuff but it can give some extra info that lets you make possibly better decisions have less surprises.

My m8 just came back from a road ride where due to lack of local knowledge 3 of them went down a big hill fast and weren't expecting a set of tight curves, so 2 ended in the bushes and 1 needed clean bibs.

I helpfully pointed out that if he had a Garmin he'd have seen on the display that the hill didn't go up and down and could have approached it differently

You don't have to rely on this stuff but it can give some extra info that lets you make possibly better decisions have less surprises.

? Comeon surely the MK1 eye ball gives you all the information you need.

Firstly, if your going too fast for the conditions (downhill corner) how will looking away from the road to check the curve/incline/descent on the garmin improve safety?

Secondly and more importantly if your going down a hill you've never been down before so fast that you miss the corner it also means they were on the wrong side of the road prior to impacting the hedge and taking up the whole road. What if a car had come the other way?

Gadgets dont replace common sense and good cycling behaviour on the road

I should add that off road on the MTB its of course its acceptable to enter steep down hill with off camber corners without having ridden it before at max speed, desirable in fact. This will, at some point, extract you from the gene pool and make the trails less crowded. thank you

Secondly and more importantly if your going down a hill you've never been down before so fast that you miss the corner it also means they were on the wrong side of the road prior to impacting the hedge and taking up the whole road. What if a car had come the other way?

Eh? Right hand corner...?

Agree that a Garmin is a mental solution though - you can't [i]really[/i] tell things like corner severity anyway, particularly on the fly.

Secondly and more importantly if your going down a hill you've never been down before so fast that you miss the corner it also means they were on the wrong side of the road prior to impacting the hedge and taking up the whole road. What if a car had come the other way?

Gadgets dont replace common sense and good cycling behaviour on the road

Ture, but there are lots of roads with corners that tighten unexpectedly, thats why you see lots of cars through hedges, and its even harder to slow a bicycle when cornering so its possible to be riding to what you think is sensible with some margin held back, only to find it gets tighter than expected and maybe damp too, so just past your margin for error.

To follow, ive not ended up in a hedge, but ive been close, despite being a conservative rider. When riding new areas and going down hills i always take a glance at the garmin map to be be sure if there is a junction round the corner or something.

Of course im always riding ready for a car or obstacle in the road, but giving some info in advance takes one thing away allowing more focus on others. So knowing which way the road turns lets me position myself safer and also concentrate maybe a little more on the road surface. Example, was out the other night and reached a junction with no markings, concentrating on trying to work out which way the road went i went through a pothole.

always shoulder check for a 2nd car, always check for trailers

"njee20 - Member
Srsly? I'd spend more time looking behind me than forwards!"

talking about rural roads not city - good chance that second car/vehicle will be close as they are watching car/vehicle in front not for you - some drivers forget they have a trailer - some just do what the hell to get past - I'd rather go for the verge than get caught - i like trailers that rattle big time - sadly horse boxes don't

planning on plenty of time for looking back 8)

Ture, but there are lots of roads with corners that tighten unexpectedly, thats why you see lots of cars through hedges, and its even harder to slow a bicycle when cornering so its possible to be riding to what you think is sensible … knowing which way the road turns lets me position myself safer and also concentrate maybe a little more on the road surface.

Let's not dress this sort of thing up for anything other than what it is: Not wanting to slow down.

In terms of reducing the risk of loss of control by failing to predict the road ahead, you could achieve the same by slowing down (with considerable reduction of additional risks into the bargain).

Being able to see the turns ahead on your handlebars isn't a safety aid in the slightest. What it is, in the context of your argument, is a speed aid.

(By the way, before you think I'm claiming some moral high ground, I've done this myself once: in thick fog in the Ardeche a few years ago I did one twisty descent looking at the Garmin zoomed right in so that I could see the turns in detail. But I was under no illusion as to what I was doing: even though I still wasn't going that quickly, I just wanted to avoid doing the descent at walking pace.)

I can see this device being handy on Sunday rides on quiet roads - when I'm tight in behind a mate's back wheel I don't necessarily want to look back, just in case he has to slow for whatever reason. Being able to keep my eyes forward and still tell if it's OK to move up and take my turn on the front would be a benefit.

Be useless for commuting, though.

when I'm tight in behind a mate's back wheel I don't necessarily want to look back

"When I'm driving right up someone's arse I don't necessarily want to have to use my rear view mirror." 😉

"When I'm driving right up someone's arse I don't necessarily want to have to use my rear view mirror."

😀

... but not quite the same as drafting on a bike, is it?

Not entirely the same (not least because cycling up someone's arse is generally done with their consent, while driving up someone arse isn't) but certainly not without similarity.

I mean, imagine people driving in a manner such that the first person had to give signals to indicate hazards in the road so that those behind didn't crash into them.

I would actively avoid this gadget. I think it would just make me paranoid.

Most of my road riding is commuting from surrey into London and I simply work on the premise that there is pretty much always a car behind me and ride accordingly (i.e. keep going in primary).

Also the shoulder-check is not only a method of checking what is behind but is also highly effective for controlling that driver's behaviour. Having a device that removes any need to shoulder-check is not a good thing imho.

talking about rural roads not city - good chance that second car/vehicle will be close as they are watching car/vehicle in front not for you - some drivers forget they have a trailer - some just do what the hell to get past - I'd rather go for the verge than get caught - i like trailers that rattle big time - sadly horse boxes don't

Me too! How many times have you ridden off the road, out of interest? I still don't look over my shoulder when a car passes. Not least the vast majority of people can't ride in a straight line whilst doing so, so it's probably more dangerous to look behind you!

I can't remember ever being really surprised by a car overtaking me as I can hear them coming.

In the city there's lots of noise so can cover the sound of approach. Out in the country you're not always concentrating 100% on what is around you - it's the countryside it's a nice place to be, check the views, bit of thinking.

Wind noise affects you everywhere, I rode for years without a lid, when I started using one the increase in wind noise was very obvious. I'nt "safety kit" brilliant eh?

Also the shoulder-check is not only a method of checking what is behind but is also highly effective for controlling that driver's behaviour.

Yep. It's a very useful tool and its power shouldn't be underestimated.

It always amazes me when people post videos of themselves, or other cyclists on the road, how infrequently they look behind them.

It always amazes me when people post videos of themselves, or other cyclists on the road, how infrequently they look behind them.

I certainly don't look behind me that often when I'm on my road bike, why would I? It's a tool to use when you're about to overtake or move out for whatever reason. It also means you're no longer looking where you're going, which is of course risky too.

why would I

So you know what is going on around you.

what njee says, car approaching maintain your road position. Only need to look behind when you intend to manoeuvre. My head would fall off if I looked behind every time a car approached. Importantly I need to keep my eyes on the road ahead

Don't assume when you cycle in the countryside that you can be less attentive. The amount of idiots I meet on country roads bears this out. The local dual carriage way bypass with good sight distances tends to be far safer than narrow country lane and 4x4 Chelsea taxis IMHO

So you know what is going on around you

I'd rather know exactly what's going on in front of me at all times rather than spend 50% of my time looking behind me, which provides a lot of information I can do nothing with!

I remain curious all you "I look behind at every car" people, how many times have you ridden off the road to avoid the collision which probably wasn't going to happen?

I remain curious all you "I look behind at every car" people, how many times have you ridden off the road to avoid the collision which probably wasn't going to happen?

I don't look at every car but the over-shoulder glance is useful for stalling a potentially dangerous overtake manoeuvre. If I hear a car approaching and the available space is too narrow for both of us AND I hear the lack of deceleration, I'll sling a peripheral glance over my right shoulder* and almost every time it will gain the desired affect. I've tried this for about a decade on the same roads and it's a worthwhile addition to road riding IME.

Oh yeah - just the once. Couldn't unclip and slid along the curb before going arse over tit onto the verge. It was a tad close and a dumper truck - I wasn't going to take any chances.

*You don't have to lose all focus of what's happening in front. That's the joy of having our eyes positioned where they are. 🙂

So a few months down the line... has anyone got one and what do they think?

Thought it was a bit of an useless idea (see earlier post!) but am slowly coming around.

Edit... pffft. 11 mins too long to wait for feedback so I've ordered one, shall take it for a spin tomorrow.

. Car fast approaching, high "threat level", should I brace for impact, ride into a ditch?

I have had to do this once when my mirror told me the overtaking vehicle was not moving out at all. I went off the road onto the gravel shoulder and stayed upright.

If I hadn't gone off the road a large camper van would have hit me at around 60mph.

But I don't see what this gadget does that a mirror and using ears doesn't.

If I hadn't gone off the road a large camper van would have hit me at around 60mph.

I wasn't so lucky recently and got a glancing blow that sent me cartwheeling into a ditch. Not that this device would have done anything to avoid that.

But I don't see what this gadget does that a mirror and using ears doesn't.

I usually don't hear cars until they are pretty much alongside, too much wind noise, especially when riding at a decent pace. I can't quite bring myself to fit a mirror to my bike.

When I am cycling on faster roads i do worry a bit about somebody smacking into the back of me. An early warning system might just help that little bit and give that extra split second to evade by swerving to the side, hopping up the kerb or even just unweighting the back wheel at the point of collision so there is less chance being flipped off the bike.

No way i am spending £200+ on a radar thingie though 😉

This guy needs a radar

I do wonder how far back they see.

This guy needs a radar

twisty - that guy needs a white stick and a golden retriever! WTF!?!

I was hit from behind a while back. I don't think radar would have helped though. It will only warn you that a car is approaching, not tell you that it's not going to move out to overtake safely. Unless you're actually riding out in the middle to avoid potholes at the time, I don't see that the information will be of any use.

Only sounds useful if it can deploy effective countermeasures.

Next years Garmin Rearward EMP Cannon integrates fully with it

Yes now I'm more thinking it might stop me from soiling my chamois when a car makes a fast close pass, giving me a little advanced warning. Been unusually jittery since getting knocked off.

No way i am spending £200+ on a radar thingie though

£138 is hardly £200+

I do wonder how far back they see.

Up to 140m according to Garmin.

I've had the Garmin Varia Rear Tail Light since late last year and it's been surprisingly useful, most of the time I hear the beep or see the display on my Edge change long before I hear the vehicle.

Interesting... I imagine that I would just ignore it most of the time. Very interested in actual experience rather than my guesswork though...

Dibbs, sounds good.

Gray, shall be giving it a go over the weekend evenings and will report back 🙂