[Closed] Rear wheel stiffness - which spokes?

Unless you’re a really heavy rider you should be OK with regular double-butted spokes. I built some wheels once with DT Swiss Revolution spokes - it was laughably flexy and would rub if I got out the saddle. The flexing also meant there was premature failure of a few spokes - there were correctly tensioned. Rebuilt the wheel with straight-gauge spokes on the drive side and all the problems disappeared. Also, aim for a minimum 2x on drive side.

If you're swapping the rim, was it the rim that caused the issues?

And AFAIK swapping to straight gauge (same quality) will just increase weight...

I am a heavy rider (120kg kitted up), and I do suspect the rim is the main problem, but any added stiffness is welcome.

It's a bit of an odd wheel build I got from a mate - the rim is an Alexrim EX30 which is supposedly fairly strong, albeit a bit flexy. The spokes are of unknown provenance, so I want to replace them regardless, and the hub is a DT350.

What spoke tension are you currently running at ?

I don't think spoke gauge is the answer, I've got a wheel with sapim laser which are very thin but it's a stiff wheel as the tension is higher

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel_index.html#:~:text=Wheel%20stiffness%20does%20not%20vary,a%20spoke%20becomes%20totally%20slack.&text=The%20wheel%20did%20not%20display,wheel%20becomes%20much%20more%20flexible.

Points 1 and 7 mainly. I expect the thing that makes most difference is the hub, the flange diameter and spacing, but you say the hub's not changing.

Ah, 120kg...

I'm only 80kg and latterly started breaking rear wheels, spokes & hubs (quality stuff, but sub 0.9kg)

I got a Hunt Enduro rear in their sale last year, bomb proof.

They've others:
https://www.huntbikewheels.com/collections/mtb-wheels?sort=price-ascending

Eyeletted rim and sapim leader spokes, dt champion or halo straight gauge, the latter can be picked up cheap, ive got some old wheels with mavic 721 rims using champion spokes and the tension is way higher than modern wheelsets.

Spoke gauge will make sod all difference to stiffness.

The main thing that will make a difference is the bracing angle of the spokes, but this is something determined by the hub and rim combination.

It’s a bit of an odd wheel build I got from a mate

That might mean the rim has been paired with a hub that it's not really suitable for.

EX511 and DT comps will sort it and give you a great wheel.

Definitely pick a good solid / stuff rim - like the ex512 mentioned above. Or even the FR560 if you’re hard on rims as well as 120kg.

I thought with spokes that you ended up with a less resilient wheel with straight gauge spokes. I’ve built a few wheelsets straight gauge just on cost grounds and I’d say they are easier to build due to less / no spike windup). Not sure they actually add any stiffness though.

Most of my wheels are DT Swiss competition or ACI db - but I’m only 75kgs so wheelflex (apart from on the road bike) isn’t something I’ve ever noticed.

Sapim have started doing a couple of extra strong butted spokes that are designed for E bikes. Depending on what hubs you have got there is the Sapim force or the Sapim strong. If I remember correctly the strongs only fit some hubs because they are so thick (Hope and DT I think). The force should fit anything.

As above.

Stick with the Butted DT Comps, I'm 85-90kg and have never broken DT Comps through normal use. Use an appropriately strong rim (like the DT EX series), and make sure it's wide enough for the tyre. A narrow-rim\wider-tyre combo will cause the tyre to fold over at the right lean angle as the sidewalls wont be supported and will have to much stress on them, it can feel similar to a flexy wheel.

Be mindful not to over tension the spokes to make the wheel stiffer, that's how hub flanges can snap or rims crack.

Thanks all. I'm going to stick with DT comps and lace up to a FR560 rim.