[Closed] Racers of any discipline.....

I reckon*
At local/regional level it's all about time/volume training but more importantly time resting.
I went from mid pack nobody to regular podium jockey on non specific/non structured 16-20 hours a week (and losing 10kg from being pretty lean) but more importantly my life was Ride-Work-Ride-Eat-Sleep....for 10 months.
Day off days were literally doing nothing at all.
At national level I'd be off the podium doing that and was looking at coach/intervals/periodisation.Not necessarily more hours but far more focused and then natural 'ability' (genetic predisposition) starts to play a bigger role because EVERYBODY is doing that already.
But I could'nt be bothered so I 'retired' 😀

Reckon it's lots of little things. Like the time you have to train, are you sure you are using that time as best as possible (coaching a consideration?) Then start looking at things like diet and rest, could you do it better, make better choices. I guess it's just the marginal gains thing in practice. Rest and sleep is a big one for me with two small kids, often means I can't train as I would like.

Racing also, so much is experience and pacing. Also look at prep and warm up. Are there things that could be improved to give you an advantage.

Biased answer - get a coach! But seriously, that would be a good place to start. Racing XC is as much about efficiency as it is about getting fitter. Learn where you can gain time by braking less, trusting your bike to do a little extra work rather than having to gain speed out of every corner.

Another thing is to race the course, not the competition. You know what you're capable of in training, so going out crazy and blowing up because you chased people off the start line is not a good idea. Hanging back and following the guy that always beats you is fine, if you goal is to finish right behind him. Race your own race and you may find you move up without even realising it.

To be fair- at the moment I race my own race and blow up before the finish because I'm like a Lurcher in a field full of Hares 😀

I wouldn't rule coaching out but am at least going to see where this round of self-coaching gets me first.

Yep- there's a whole list of diet, sleep, recovery and stretching goals I still need to get around to encorporating into my life 😀

I guess then it's just sticking to your guns and waiting for Joe Bloggs to fall off the wagon 😉 😀

Rorschach is right, most of the stuff you should be doing, everyone else is already doing it. And unless you are single with an undemanding job and loads of free time, probably doing it to a degree that you (or at least I) will never be able to achieve. I could train for 20 hours a week but it would lead to divorce pretty quickly! And then there's genetics. Not wanting to put you off 🙂

FWIW I've gone the coaching route to try and make the most of the time I've got. I think it's already paying dividends in terms of consistency and volume of training. If it's on a plan that someone has given me I'm more obsessive about sticking to it than if it was one I'd planned myself.

Yep- there's a whole list of diet, sleep, recovery and stretching goals I still need to get around to encorporating into my life

Don't forget the core work! 🙂

Question (Coaches are exempt from answering as your 'biased').
10 hours of stuctured/coached riding a week.
OR
20 hours of doing what you please (as long as it's not dh).
I've been round the block a few times.I could'nt afford it if I wanted to and I HATE being told what to do so I don't think a coach would have done too much for me at the level I was riding at (regional/few nationals).
But which would give better results do you think?

At local/regional level it's all about time/volume training but more importantly time resting.

And possibly even more importantly - quality.

It depends what 'doign what you please' actually is.

Some folk like to trudle all day. These people probably need a coach to hand out some pain.

Other folk like to batter themselves all the time. These people probably need a coach to give them some decent base.

Sounds like the best thing for you to do is learn how it works and incorporate it into your rides. Might be worth paying a coach (or buying a book) to get a one-off menu of workouts, how to extend them and what they do for you so you can make your own decisions.

For me, I'd say the 20 hours. Though I'd add that 10 hours of structured/coached would almost certainly give more benefit than 10 hours of just riding around. Whatever time I had to train I'd go structured/coached, especially if I was devoting a significant chunk of my time to it.

I went from mid pack nobody to regular podium jockey on non specific/non structured 16-20 hours a week

Hours mean so very very little when it comes to training. don't buy into the more = better mindset. Decide how many hours you can actually stick to each week, and then write down what you're going to do with each and every one. There's no point fooling yourself into thinking you have 16 hours a week to train in January if it means you're burnt out, injured and divorced in March!

10 hours structured/coached. It really does make a difference. Most people ride at an intensity that is too easy for a hard session and too hard for an easy session, so don't really achieve much in the time.

My resting is of the highest quality....I sleep like the dead.
Was it Merckx who said "if you are standing,sit.If you are sitting lie"?

I think it was one of the top ironman guys (Mark Allen maybe?) who said that was the main difference between the pros and the amatures, the pros had the time to rest properly. It's that train/eat/rest triangle thing.

I won the Sport NPS series some years back (2007) and the last round without doing anything like 15-20 hours a week. 10 at most I'd have said. You certainly don't need loads of hours to do alright.

That said, I never finished higher than 4th in sport at a Gorrick, tough fields!

What category are you competing in?

11 hours a week is plenty of time to be competitive in expert/masters.

Have you been riding long? No matter what training you are doing progression will take time.

Train smarter, not harder.

It may sound old and tired, but it's so true.

Before you clip in, you should know *exactly* what you are going out to do, and how it fits into your training plan. Just going out to ride thinking "I might do a hard day today" will mean you probably come back tired, but it might not be helping you make the gains that will most improve your racing.

If you don't get a coach. Read some books about setting your own training plan.

Win.

EDIT: That doesn't mean every ride has to be some specific structured intervals or skills practice. It's important to keep your mid fresh, and love of riding fed, so make sure you plan those rides in to your schedule.

I really enjoyed reading Faster: The obsession... by Michael Hutchinson which is sort of on the same subject.

I can kinda relate to this topic. A well respected road biker (as in bloody good) around my area started following me on (shhh) strava a couple of years ago. He's seen my rides progress from posting half decent times on my hybrid, getting a proper road bike and kinging a few segments. He's wanting to start up his own coaching/training business so asked me if I'd like to be his "guinea pig" with regards to a proper structured plan this winter. When I looked at the plan it surprised how little time I would be spending in the saddle. I questioned him about this and he said less really is more. Sure I could go out and peddle like a madman everytime I went out but I wouldn't be targeting specific areas that need working on, I need to be far more savvy he said. So I've gone from 250-300miles/15hrs per week down to under 120miles/10hrs per week. Time will tell if I've improved but it feels atm that it's working. We shall see come spring 😀

So can any of you guys/gals remember that first time you left Joe Bloggs behind up a climb or out-sprinted Jill Bloggs for 8th place etc? What made the difference for [i]you[/i] that race?

Structured training that incorporates intervals.
That's simplifying a lot, but the majority of cyclists train by just riding their bikes and don't regularly visit the high intensity zones that really make a difference. This sort of training is not easy, but if you can do it, you will get an advantage over a lot of your rivals.

Don't neglect the mental strength that's needed when you're competing against other people, think of a time in a race when you were really hurting, questioning your sanity type hurting, except that as your baseline, that's the best you're ever going to feel during a race, now except the fact that you are going to feel worse, don't confuse blowing up( running out of glycogen) with not being able to suffer anymore. If you can make the mental breakthrough the physical strength will improve. Oh...and getting a coach, smarter training, losing 2kg and top equipment can't hurt!

Yep, as per all the above, I keep reading its all about training smarter not harder.

Its easy to watch Strava and read on here and believe that so many people are all doing more than you. They might be. But then again they might just be riding more junk miles. Or its just the psychological effect of being in a environment where you can see someone riding each and every night (e.g.on Strava).

I don't have much training time due to work and other commitments but it seems most people on my club do too.

I'm trying to plan my training this winter, not just doing random training sessions. I've thought about a coach but having the training sessions listed out over the next few weeks makes it easy enough to follow and I think I am seeing some improvement. There are lots of better people out there without coaches, so they must be doing something right!

And I keep trying to improve diet and get more sleep or other "easy" gains etc but I like cake too much 🙂

I still think some of these (great training related) replies are slightly off topic. It's [i]relative[/i] performance I was hoping to address rather than just my performance- which is as in-hand as its going to get for now.

I don't really follow any pro racing closely so not sure how it works in say, pro XC. Is the top ten in rd 1 pretty much the pattern for the season?

So can any of you guys/gals remember that first time you left Joe Bloggs behind up a climb or out-sprinted Jill Bloggs for 8th place etc

@Rorschach Fair play! I've visualised that CX scenario feeling a lot 😀 Must be awesome.

Faintly embarrassed at the end tbh....so I snuck away cos I is dead shy 😳

The fittest I've ever been was after a 6 week tour of Spain nearly 20 yearsago.. 2 weeks after returning I was placed 2nd on the final lap of Rockhoppers South Masters at the Land of Nod before crashing on the final lap whilst challenging for the lead.
This was a considerable improvemenmt on my normalmid pack efforts before and since.
I suppose the keys were long hours in the saddle,lots of climbing, but perhaps more importantly, rest when we didn't feel like it. It was a holiday after all...

This might be a bit po faced but I think a lot of people get stuck on fitness hours and miss out on thinking stuff through. If you just try and get fitter and do the same thing race after race then you're missing a trick.

This is what helped me improve past people from last year

Analyse your performance on race day and address the weaknesses which are likely to be much more than pure fitness.

Did you time your training so that you are in the best state of preparedness
Have you trained on the course/area before - I've met a couple of the competition at Tunnel Hill now I've started training there!
Did you do a practice lap the day before
Did you make sure you had eaten correctly the night before/the morning of
Did you get a good place at the start
Did you bury yourself for the out lap (it's quite rare to make many places after)
Do you catch people on fireroads - no - get fitter
Do you catch people on single track - no - more skillz training (big one this I think)
Do you get a mental low and fade - be aware and do some work on it
Do you dawdle behind back markers - passing assertively ain't rude - Gee's loud but polite.
Keep on after someone you are racing even if they pass you fast - you never know how much they have in the tank and you might be able to use some -
Racecraft - don't be afraid to bury yourself on a fireroad sprint to get past and see if you can make it stick in the singletrack etc
How much do you have in the tank when you finished?
After look at your laps and analyse where you eased off or could have made places.

I'm certainly fitter than last year but that's only part of it.

First I'd stop worrying about your rivals are doing and start worrying about self betterment. What can you do to make yourself faster, find what works for you and be honest with yourself.

Second, 11 hours is more than enough. I got to some very good power numbers this year on about 10 hours a week with lots of structure, but then I got tonsillitis and was then hit by a van so I never really got to use it.

Oh and definitely 10 hours of structured work over 20 hours of just riding - you'd burn out if you just did 20 hours of riding unless you really limited the intensity and then you'd be wasting your time, as you'd have poor anaerobic capacity. Anyone who is training more than about 15 hours and has a job isn't doing it right, there are guys with world tour contracts who put in less than 20 hours a week and they get to spend the rest of their time resting...

No training "plan". And I trained as a coach. But I commute, ride a medium fast club ride, and try and get in a turbo session each week. I also race a LOT of circuit races and road race in the summer. These are basically HIIT sessions with added racing strategy. I went from dropped in 4th cat to trying to get into breaks in E123. This fitness transfers to other disciplines and I race Goricks and have just started cross. Top third is my aim in these on my singlespeed, but I may try harder and get something geared eventually.

Intervals rather than hours seemed to work for me.

You know the po faced grr's.......waves 😆

First I'd stop worrying about your rivals are doing and start worrying about self betterment. What can you do to make yourself faster, find what works for you and be honest with yourself.

This. You can't control what this other bloke is doing, so stop worrying about it. Focus on your own training, you may start beating him, he may have upped his training even more, but that's out of your hands. You're racing a whole field, not one bloke!

adsh has some good points. Thinking about your racing and riding is so important and so often neglected. The best advice I ever heard on this subject was to always be asking yourself, 'why am I doing this thing?' and if you didn't have a good answer, stop it and do something more considered. This applies equally in races (Why am I on the front of the bunch? Why am I taking a breather?) and training. (Am I going hard enough? Or too hard?) Get into this habit and you'll be some way to making the most of your time and ability.

An average of 10 hours a week of structured training throughout the season is a huge amount, if this is done together with a good coach then I'd expect some seriously impressive results come late summer, (assuming you start now).

So:
* Get a coach
* Get a training plan
* Plan your season
* Strengthen your core
* Keep your bike in absolute top condition
* Sleep/rest as much as possible
* Eat healthily

My performance has taken a massive leap after 4 months of power meter/coach led training, yet am only doing 6-8hrs a week. Previously I just rode for 10-12hrs week

I race road/crits and xc in specific blocks, with training blocks in between and also include an off season where I just ride my bike for a few months and eat lots of pies/cake along the way.

Palmares this year:

Road:
4th cat 2nd
4th cat win
3rd cat 4th

Cyclocross 2nd Vet (london x-league)
Gorrick xc, Vet+ win

I like to mix up my disciplines, keeps it interesting (although not good for chasing road points).

In xc races, I pre-ride the lap in the hour before the start, other than that I just enjoy myself. For me racing the Gorricks are all about the joy of riding my bike as fast as I can through interesting courses. The presence of opposition doesn't really affect the speed I can do this but does help motivation after 45mins or so.

What might a typical (or your) training plan look like?

Mainly very specific intervals, peppered with a few less structured rides.

No training "plan". And I trained as a coach. But I commute, ride a medium fast club ride, and try and get in a turbo session each week. I also race a LOT of circuit races and road race in the summer. These are basically HIIT sessions with added racing strategy. I went from dropped in 4th cat to trying to get into breaks in E123. This fitness transfers to other disciplines and I race Goricks and have just started cross. Top third is my aim in these on my singlespeed, but I may try harder and get something geared eventually.

Intervals rather than hours seemed to work for me.

Same as TiRed except I ballsed it up last year by being distracted into entering events randomly off plan.

This year I've been more structured although my training to date has taken a decent with 5 week illness. As others have said I've learned:

a) That it needs time, learning strategy and fitness to be competitive, all are important.

b) You may not have the time to podium, so be happy competing with those around you where you place. I'm 42 with a professional job and a family with limited natural ability, I'm never going to be an E1, but I'll use my limited hours to enjoy racing at my level and stay fit and healthy, and will aim to place better than 8th in class - which seemed to be my "number" - in MTB last year.

c) Make natural sacrifces. Its easy to make healthy food choices, and a Turbo Interval session is easy to get into you life if you make the effort to get out of bed and hour earlier, or stay off the couch in the evening and spend the time on the Turbo instead.

d) Ride with people better than you, perhaps at a club. Its not always a pleasure being "owned" by the likes of TiRed and NJEE as STW examples, but you'll learn a lot about skills, equipment, or what it takes to be competitive and if you join a road club you'll learn about drafting and about where/when you are strong weak compared to others.

e) Strava - jokes aside - can be your friend. I have a 1 hour outdoor lunchtime ride which is built 50% around my weaknesses and 50% around my strengths. Coincidentally, some of it has Strava sections, so as well as timing the loop to see how fast I can ride it, I can measure my times up certain hills, or a Threshold on certain rolling flats. Just beware of weather an traffic influencing this and don't get disheartened. My best time in the summer around this loop was 1h:01 for 31.8k. This week I did it in 1:08 or 28kmph average, but I was on the winter bike, it was wet and cold, and the traffic was busier. But I did push hard and burned 800 cals, so I know I was working hard.

Crikey, you don't want to be learning skills off me, you'll go backwards, probably into a tree!

So can any of you guys/gals remember that first time you left Joe Bloggs behind up a climb or out-sprinted Jill Bloggs for 8th place etc? What made the difference for you that race?

Yes! and it was great 🙂

OP, I've been where you are, spotting the same people every time, knowing who is 'a bit faster', who is 'uncatchable' and who is likely to demoralise me if they beat me because they're normally just behind me.

My advice (if you can call it that!), is to both simultaneously try to not worry about them, and also at the same time, pick a couiple of the 'just faster' or same speed riders as your focus.

Ignore the uncatchables, they are simply that, admire them but don't worry about them, focus on a few people around your speed and then engage your brain not your legs, start thinking about where they gain their leads, is it on the flats/fireroads? uphill? techy bits?

Do they go out hard and stay hard?
- can you stay with them? if not let them go, focus on someone you cn stay with to begin with, better to stay and the sprint for a place

Go out hard and slow down?
- this is you? blow up before the end, someone will have been doing the above with you and then over taken you at the end when you're broken, could you do it to one of them?

Go out easy and speed up?
- these are the buggers that demoralise you by coming up from behind!

Look at your own performance in comparison and work out what your weak areas are and focus on making your improvements there.

For me I was always ahead in the techy bits and getting frustrated by being held up, but then I'd get dropped on the non-techy climbs and FR sprints. I decided to start relaxing a bit in the techy bits, as even when relaxed I was making up ground, but then leaving my self with a bit more in the tank for the next open bit or climb, it wasn't long before I had pretty much got to the point where all my hard efforts were going into the climbs and FRs and I was then ending up getting into the twisties [i]ahead [/i]of the people that previously held me up, and then I'd still pull away in the tech, so it was win-win, that small shift in approach made a massive difference.

Before I was always desperately trying to keep up as they pulled away from me, they'd make it to the tech bits ahead, I wouldn't be able to pass and then the cycle would repeat, now I'm desperately trying to get to the next bit of singletrack or techy stuff before they catch me, but the end result is I stay ahead and often pull away over time.

Are you perhaps like me? or perhaps like them and can make your time up on the climbs? Either way, play to your strengths as well as minimise your weaknesses.

I think you can get just as much improvement from riding and training smarter as you can from harder (as a few others have already said), but you need to do the analysis to work out where to focus.

To be fair- at the moment I race my own race and blow up before the finish

Another thing I, and many others, suffered from!

You need to learn to pace yourself so you blow up [b]at [/b]the finish, no point being ahead and then dropping 3-4 places in the last 1/2 lap, pace to be 3 places back from there but have a sprint finish in you or enough left in the tank to wind it up for the last 1/2 lap, and then you'll be the one reeling in the blown up riders, the net result may be the same placing overall to begin with, but you'll feel better finishing strong* and over time you'll find you recover those places. I found blowing up early will drop you more places overall than just going a bit slower if that makes sense?

* surprising how much this helps mentally, but not too strong mind! you need to be dying as you finish, no point in finishing with another 1/4 lap in you 😉

Good stuff on this thread.

I'm hoping to better than last year on about 4-5hrs a week. Just done lots of steady rides recently, but will have to start some intervals soon I think. I've got loads to learn like you Crosshair, but that makes xc really interesting. My starts are usually awful and I only reel folk back after about 1 lap, so that needs dealing with. I have a habit of eating the wrong foods at lunch, so need to knock that on the head right now. Hilly courses suit me, flat ones less so, so I need to work on speed on the flat and over roots.

And, like most of us, need to balance all this with varying workloads, family etc. See you at the next Gorrick!

Crikey, you don't want to be learning skills off me, you'll go backwards, probably into a tree!

You were the only "competing" MTB person on STW I could think of that Ive ridden with. And my "learning" phrase was generic - there's a lot of people who've learned about bike weights etc from you.

But also as I mentioned, just riding along. Remember that last run down Swinley blue with a nice bit of pace? Although that was sub-race pace, it was a good effort and was useful for me after to see where my HR was (sub threshold which was good) but probably for LocalHero94 to see just how much work he needs to do / his knee problem has affected him - and good on him for starting a TR program based on that experience soon after!

Its also good to watch others lines and techniques, every day is a school day.

My favourite xc race ever was an epic dual for 13th place in a Southern xc masters class.

You were the only "competing" MTB person on STW I could think of that Ive ridden with. And my "learning" phrase was generic - there's a lot of people who've learned about bike weights etc from you.

Aye, I'm only joking! I am pretty awesome, I know.

[rambling anecdote] I remember having my first moment akin to Rorschach when I started doing ok. It was the first Southern XC in 2007, at Mapledurham. I'd done a few races in the preceding months, and done nothing spectacular at all. Got a decent start (as usual), but stayed out front. Looked back halfway up the first climb and I had a significant gap over the entire field. Best feeling ever. Led for 2.75 of the 4 laps, then completely blew up, think I forgot to drink anything. Finished 15th! Knew I had the fitness then, and it's interesting looking back at events I was targeting (the NPSs) that my results steadily improved through the year, whilst other races (notably Southerns) were clearly sacrificial, and results never as good.[/rambling anecdote]

That was on the back of using a coach, personally for me one of the big things that a coach provides is motivation - I know what I should be doing, but when I get home if I can't be bothered to go and do a turbo session or whatever there's no one telling me that I have to go and do it. If you don't struggle with motivation then that's less of an issue obviously!

Its also good to watch others lines and techniques, every day is a school day.

With that in mind, I reckon you could carry a lot more speed into and through corners. When I followed you at Swinley this was your weakness IMO.

Obviously your bike was shit and hindering you but that goes without saying, right... 😉

With that in mind, I reckon you could carry a lot more speed into and through corners. When I followed you at Swinley this was your weakness IMO.

I'd agree with that - I did notice that I put gaps into you on the singletrack without really pushing, and I'm not brave in the corners!

Apologies, this is at risk of becoming your own personal improvement thread Kryton, stop hogging the interweb. Crosshair, if I knew you (and I'm sure we've at least seen each other at a race) I'd do the same for you!

Kryton, stop hogging the interweb

🙂

I'd agree with that - I did notice that I put gaps into you on the singletrack without really pushing, and I'm not brave in the corners!

Much overlooked this. Find bits of single track to train on and session them over and over again. Try and be smooth and carry speed. You can find loads of time.

Kryton, stop hogging the interweb

😀

With that in mind, I reckon you could carry a lot more speed into and through corners. When I followed you at Swinley this was your weakness IMO.

I'd agree with that - I did notice that I put gaps into you on the singletrack without really pushing, and I'm not brave in the corners!

There are reasons for that, which I won't self flagellate about here, but overall I have a nervous disposition which leads to a inerrant mistrust of tyres/grip in the bends, which means I tend to backoff/drag the rear brake and then have to work back up to the rider in front. You may remember me stating at the beginning of the day I felt a bit nervous on the "polished" surface.

Much overlooked this. Find bits of single track to train on and session them over and over again. Try and be smooth and carry speed. You can find loads of time.

Yes, I need improve that and carry more speed/burn less energy.

But a good example to the OP about how 1 ride with a good rider (and Teasel 😉 ) can help you.

Yes, I hate the polished/off camber stuff, and I guess it was more the faster, ginger berms I was thinking of, more than the pebbly bits.

How do you deal with the middle lap limbo? I can focus pretty well on the first and last lap, but my mind tends to go walkabout in the 2nd/2nd and 3rd laps.

The biggest gain for me came after following a periodised training plan. cannot tell you how satisfying it was to go from DNF last year, to top 3rd the next year in the same race! It's not a podium, but it'll do for now.

For a novice to racing and riding I found endurance training to be of great benefit. Just knowing your body can bash out a 2 hour ride with no problem helps a lot. Becoming competitive over those 2 hours is another order of magnitude harder I reckon.

Njee20- Yeah, we have definitely seen each other without realising it- I know you've lapped me a few times 😉

Yak- that first race we met at, I knew it was you ahead but I couldn't push any harder to bridge the gap 😀 Then, at XCRampage, it was certainly friendly fuel for the fire knowing we'd be racing. I can tell from my HR trace when you had your puncture 😉 😀

My best performances have definitely been when friends have been racing too 😀

Loads of cool stuff in here thanks all.

What I attempt to do is start well to avoid lap one bottle necks, then ease back, then push for the finish. What happens in practice is I hang with the front group for too long, race too many people in the middle then finish up with no reserves.
Out of 6 races made up of CX, XcRampage and Autumn Gorricks, I lost one place at all of them to people who passed on the last lap.

I need to improve pretty much across the board- my weight, my FTP, aerobic and muscular endurance, pacing, hydration and tech skills all need work.

Keep it coming 🙂

[b]ginger [/b]berms

Eh? Berms in general I'm just crap at, you should have seen me ride over the top of one at Afan... 😐

How do you deal with the middle lap limbo?

When I did Beastway last year, I carried a bottle only half full but with Caffiene High 5 in it. I'd neck it about 3/4 through the race and it really perked my up physically and mentally for the remainder.

A [i]feeling[/i] of losing focus in the middle is fairy natural I think and isn’t necessarily a problem. You are focused at the start to get position and in the middle of the race you are at a pace that feels comfortable (or you’ll blow up) often the last lap push is really just fatigue setting in, you’re maintaining the pace you’ve been at all race but having to work harder to maintain it (this is more obvious when running where pace is more consistant, you can see your HR increase gradually over the course of a marathon for the same pace). On the occasions that I’ve been at the sharp end in races there’s usually a fair bit of chatting going on between riders after the initial charge of the line, It goes quiet when someone puts a dig in though.

Of course if you are slowing down in the middle then the only answer is focus more! Splitting laps into sections and riding to splits can help, or focusing on consistent gear selection for a particular climb. Having someone to chase helps me massively, out of sight out of mind is a huge factor for me.

I feel like I'm just sitting at threshold in the middle lap and there's a bit more to give, but I just can't be bothered to find it. I then start pushing to reel more people in on the last lap, but I've got no idea if they're stragglers from another category, or people in my own race!

Some good stuff in here though. I never thought it was possible to be competitive with just 10 hours a week at the sharp end of Masters/Elite!

I [i]am[/i] that guy that passes you on the last lap - I can't start any harder than I do and often get faster lap-on-lap to the finish.
I've worked on this for twenty-odd years and it's made no difference, my race nearly always pans out the same. Sometimes I catch everyone and ride off to a glorious win, sometimes (if it's a dry fast race) a group gets away and works together so I roll in having ridden in no-man's land for the whole time.

So if you're one of the lads who worries about starting fast and fading, be aware that other people worry about the opposite 😀

mid lap lull is always a struggle, but the biggest problem I have after lap 1, and this is no joke, is remembering what lap I'm on!

Why I find it so difficult to count to 5 I have no idea, but I always find myself questioning what Lap I'm actually on!

After the lap 1 battle to get ahead of the bottle neck, I try and focus on getting set into my rhythm, it helps for focus on sections of the course at a time, and not the whole lap (this is probabyl why I forget what lap I'm on come to think of it...), section by section, slowly-slowly-catchy-monkey style. I find that way I'm faster as I'm only paying attention to riding that section well, not where I am in the race or relative to others.

Once on to the 3rd or 4th lap that's when you'll start running into back markers from other categories so the focus shifts into planning overtakes as well, keeps my mind sharp and makes me start thinking further ahead in the lap again.

by last lap(s) I'm normally fairly aware of what level of go I have left in me and will start planning where I'm going to put those last drops of effort in to try and make up any ground I can, it's at this point I'll be making the decision whether to chase anyone ahead in sight or if I need to do anything special to keep ahead of people on my wheel.

Garmin with lap counter on the home screen 😉

as been said above there is some good stuff on this thread but ive just totted up my hours and im a bit shocked how little i do. are you folks managing 10+ hours p/w in season? or is this offseason training?

allowing for real life i can fit a couple of commutes, a mtb ride, a run and some strength work around racing (cx) in season, its 5-6 hours at best with 2 hours (at most) on race day and i wouldn't want to fit anything more in.

my rambling anecdote - for me racing gets fun when 2 things align 1) you are fit enough to ride hard but have some in the tank for attacks and 2) you luck out on a group of people are the same fitness as you, even if you are racing for 1st or 17th place its fun to ride in a group and you attack, they bring you back, they attack, they bring you back and so on. Judging the good spot to go where you're strong, getting traffic between them and you. Ive had many races where ive finished higher and had less fun as ive been stranded on my own timetrialing home for 2-3 laps.

allowing for real life i can fit a couple of commutes, a mtb ride, a run and some strength work around racing (cx) in season, its 5-6 hours at best with 2 hours (at most) on race day and i wouldn't want to fit anything more in.

Thats me. I get 3-4 hours (2or3 x Turbo + 1 outdoor thrash) in during the week, and a 4h or so club ride on Sundays.

I am doing 10structured hours a week during the winter but it's pretty relentless and requires a nearly unsustainable level of selfishness.

Does any one reckon you could fit in a hour of footy a week round a decent MTB training plan.

I used to do a few footy games a week but I can only make one a week now.

However the footy really tends to leave me with a lot of muscle strains and tired out compared to running/cycling + injuries occur alot more often.

Does anyone who gets any decent results in MTBing play any contact sports on a weekley basis.

Does any one reckon you could fit in a hour of footy a week round a decent MTB training plan.

It'd be ideal. Give it the beans during footie, cover the pitch as much as you can and you'll get a great sprint workout that should really help your biking. It'd be just like the sprint intervals I was doing for a while which made an incredible difference to me.

Only downside is risk of injury.

However the footy really tends to leave me with a lot of muscle strains and [b]tired out[/b]

Well yeah - that means it's doing you good 🙂 Schedule a rest day or a longer slower ride the following day.

Used to nearly 20 years ago when I was playing rugby at uni. Might not fair so well now. 😆

The key to that would be to ensure that you do your Z6/7 workouts the other side of the week to the footy, and do a very easy spin the day after.

My race experience is mostly crits and track rather than xc (i think xc will be different because the group / drafting dynamics are much different)

Assuming everyone is fairly well matched in terms of training and fitness and the seeding / category is working as it should, then there are still going to be big variations in what ones strengths and weaknesses are.

There is going to be a proportion of the field where finishing in the main group is going to be an achievement. There is also another, smaller proportion who have a good sprint and can hope to podium if it comes down to a sprint. In the middle of this there are alot of riders that are fit enough to finish in the group but they cant sprint, yet many of the riders are content to sit in and wait for the sprint. A large part of this is the fear of making too big an effort, not being able to sustain it and then going out the back of the main group when they get caught.

Unless you are a rider head and shoulders above the competition, then most of us probably have one hand to play. For some this is a sprint finish, for others it should be trying to make a selection before that. It probably wont work, but its good training trying plus it is more fun being active in the race. Trying something and failing and finishing off the back of the main group as a result ultimately feels more satisfying than finishing the race in the main group in 30th place and feeling like you have something still in the tank!

Whoop whoop! Very proud of my 5th place at Gorrick Spring 1 today- mainly because I managed a negative split for once. I didn't get it by pacing better either, I got it by burrying myself on the last lap. Very satisfying.