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Can someone link me to reflector requirements bells etc.
Its for work and i need it as soon as possible don't fail STW
Interesting, but these restrictions apply to bicycles that are sold in the UK and only apply at point of sale. Quote:
Many cyclists have a strong aversion to what they view as excess clutter on their bike and will want to remove (or never fit) most if not all of the items 2 to 6, listed above. Since none of them are required by Construction and Use Regulations, the bicycle will still be perfectly legal to use, on the roads of Great Britain, in daylight.
I also didn't realise that it was a requirement for bikes sold in the UK to have their brakes in "UK orientation" (aka back brake on the left). I have learnt something today 🙂
also didn't realise that it was a requirement for bikes sold in the UK to have their brakes in "UK orientation" (aka back brake on the left).
I didn't know that either, and it means that the 2 folders I got recently from Decathlon wouldn't meet that.
The last two words of daern's quote are important: "[i]in daylight[/i]". I.e. if you use your bike during those hours subject to lighting regulations then you should have the reflectors fitted as the next paragraph from that quoted makes clear.
This from someone who doesn't have pedal reflectors on his bikes.
Most of us are probably riding legal bikes during the day, but most of us aren't at night - due to the pedal reflectors and the issue that has when clipless.
Of my bikes only my commuter comes close to being completely legal - it doesn't have reflectors on the pedals.
From the [url= http://www.cyclinguk.org/cyclists-library/regulations/lighting-regulations ]lighting regs page[/url] linked from the original link: "[i]When they are required, the lights and reflectors listed below must be clean and working properly.[/i]" Hmm, so you've to keep your pedal reflectors clean? About as likely as keeping rear light clusters on your car clean I suspect.
If anyone uses SPDs and cares about the reflector requirements, the Shimano T400 pedals have build in reflectors to solve the issue.
I bought some rolls of Red and Amber coloured adhesive backed, reflective tape a few years ago, the sort of stuff dodgey types put on the boots of their Astramax/Navara "Highway Maintenance" marked vehicles.
Each winter I put a fresh strip of red on either seatstay, on the back face of my mudguard (along with the hard reflector already there) and a little rectangle of the amber on either face of my M646 pedal cages to effectively meet the need for pedal and rear reflectors after dark... (items 5 and 6)...
I also sometimes stick a bit of the amber on the heels of my shoes, and I've put a strip round the downtube before too to give some side reflection, it's cheaper, arguably less dorky, harder to smash than hard plastic reflectors and still as effective...
I've wondered about that - if my shoes have yellow reflectors and are "fixed" to the pedals, am I legal without any other pedal reflector ?I also sometimes stick a bit of the amber on the heels of my shoes
No you're not legal because they're not on the pedals.
Atnight...
Thanks for the link i'd read that.
Daern highlighted the info i needed thanks!
No you're not legal because they're not on the pedals.
What about triathletes shoes?
Probably never been tested in court so there is no right or wrong answer. But I suspect if you had reflectors that met the standard on your shoes then it would be difficult to argue that they weren't fulfilling the same function.
Problem is, IIRC reflective tape doesn't meet the same standard as a solid reflector.
So does it have to be "something reflective" or does it have to meet certain criteria? I.e. the reflector has to be Xmm by Ymm and have a reflectivity greater than some value.
Short of paying the £100+ for a copy of the standard, does anyone know?
Many, many bikes fail the toe-overlap part of the regs. Tyre clearance is often an issue too.
Edit: IIRC the reflector needs to be stamped with the appropriate BS number
yes according to CUK the rear & pedal reflectors need to be marked with the BS number or equivalent which obviously rules out any DIY solution even if it were to comply with the technical specs of the standard.
Probably another reason why new bikes aren't sold with (decent) pedals.
So does it have to be "something reflective" or does it have to meet certain criteria? I.e. the reflector has to be Xmm by Ymm and have a reflectivity greater than some value.Short of paying the £100+ for a copy of the standard, does anyone know?
The standards are available on the .gov website for free.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title=The%20Road%20Vehicles%20Lighting%20Regulations
PITA to read though as the amendments aren't incorporated into the original text (and only a few apply to bikes).
Long and short though, lights and reflectors need the appropriate BS stamp on them, or an equivalent from another EU state, there's rules on their position but that's mostly common sense (<1.5m from ground on the front, <75cm on the rear, and visible from the intended direction).
yes according to CUK the rear & pedal reflectors need to be marked with the BS number or equivalent which obviously rules out any DIY solution even if it were to comply with the technical specs of the standard.
IIRC there's a line in the standard about bikes being pushed or stationary not needing them (presumably to allow for dynamos or to push an 'illegal' bike home after dark). So you could argue that as long as you're moving, you're clipped in, and the pedal/shoe are one.
Out of interest, if I purchase a bike, slap on some non-reflective SPDs (as I have with every bike I've owned for $years), what possible consequences might be in store should anyone care enough to take me to task for it?
I understand that a manufacturer must be more careful about what they sell, but are there actually any possible repercussions for end users caught riding without reflectors or (gasp!) a bell on the handlebars?
[i]Quaking at my desk in anticipation of your answers.[/i]
Out of interest, if I purchase a bike, slap on some non-reflective SPDs (as I have with every bike I've owned for $years), what possible consequences might be in store should anyone care enough to take me to task for it?I understand that a manufacturer must be more careful about what they sell, but are there actually any possible repercussions for end users caught riding without reflectors or (gasp!) a bell on the handlebars?
Quaking at my desk in anticipation of your answers.
The police can pull you up and issue a fine, just like they do for no lights.
Also you could be found liable for a crash and insurers refuse to pay out. I suppose hypothetically you could be tried for manslaughter like the fixie riding idiot recently if the lack of reflectors was contributory to that?
That's about it really. I have reflectors on my winter commuter, not on my other bikes. If shimano made reflector brackets for SPD's I'd leave them on (Time do, and so IIRC do CB), but they don't unfortunately.
The police can pull you up and issue a fine, just like they do for no lights.Also you could be found liable for a crash and insurers refuse to pay out.
Clearly, the point about brakes is a pertinent one given the recent court case, but would a copper really care about pedal reflectors and bells? And, likewise, if you were involved in an accident, it would need be shown that your lack of these items were specifically contributory to the accident. Just because you don't have these items would not make it your fault.
Not sure about insurance, other than that they are clearly a bunch of arses, but think of all those insured BC members riding every weekend, the vast majority of whom will be riding without pedal reflectors or bells.
This might be one of those cases where the law has slipped out of alignment to actually usage and perhaps should be modified - e.g. a flashing front/rear light could replace reflectors when riding on the road.
(Edit: The recent fixie incident is quite different as: a) He was riding without proper brakes and b) the chap appeared to be a bit of cockend anyway. There was certainly a case to answer here, as has been proved)
Anyone know if this has ever happened? Given the number of technically illegal bikes on the roads you'd have thought if anyone cared then something would've happened by now, and if the police have no interest in enforcing it maybe it should be removed from the law.The police can pull you up and issue a fine
Anyone know if this has ever happened? Given the number of technically illegal bikes on the roads you'd have thought if anyone cared then something would've happened by now, and if the police have no interest in enforcing it maybe it should be removed from the law.
There's often a crackdown around September/October when the clocks change and sunset starts to coincide with commuting times. Often they give the offer of a £20 set of lights or a £60 FPN.
Depends if your police force views it as a priority, either to placate angry motorists or because they think it reduces the chances of accidents/deaths sufficiently to be worth a few weeks of their time.
Never heard of it being done for bells/reflectors though, only lights. ALthough I suspect those riding without lights are mostly on BSO's so probably not the type to bother removing them in the first place.
This might be one of those cases where the law has slipped out of alignment to actually usage and perhaps should be modified - e.g. a flashing front/rear light could replace reflectors when riding on the road.
It was updated (2005?) as the prevalence of LED lights (which were nowhere near the BS standard which still quoted a wattage for a halogen bulb) meant that almost everyone was illegal, so now an LED light doesn't have to meet the BS standard (but does have to have a minimum of 4 candela). That doesn't surpass the need for reflectors though.
My bikes will all be legal during the day but the only one that would be 100% legal at night would be my folder as it's the only one with reflectors on the pedals. It's also the only one with a bell - not that it's a legal requirement of course.
When I ride at night I'll have at least two front lights at the front and the same on the back, and usually with an additional helmet mounted light that has a white front and red back. I'll sometimes have reflective straps round my ankles as well. I wouldn't expect to get a pull from the police but in theory I could.
and if the police have no interest in enforcing it maybe it should be removed from the law.
That is not how policing works or what the laws are for.
It is illegal to break into my house but I don't expect to see a policeman sat outside 24X7 in case any one tries.
Are you expecting the police to stop and check every bike they see?
If they do then I will be in a lot of trouble....
The Police are mostly reactive rather than pro-active though they have the power of arrest if they suspect that someone is intending to commit a crime.
and if the police have no interest in enforcing it maybe it should be removed from the law.
That is not how policing works or what the laws are for.
No, but if the vast majority of lawful members of society are routinely breaking a law, then there is a call that it should be changed. After all, the law of the land should be a reflection of the standards to which society holds itself, rather than an arbitrary set of rules made up on a wet Sunday afternoon.
Anyway, probably overkill for this, but perhaps a tweak to the rules might not go amiss...
If shimano made reflector brackets for SPD's I'd leave them on
Something like these?
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/pedals-cleats/shimano-xtr-pdm9020-smpd60-reflector-unit-y40z98010/
It does seem somewhat bizarre that so few pedals are strictly road legal (within this country at least). The rules have been changed following general usage regarding flashing lights so a similar change regarding pedal reflectors might be in order.
So does anyone have a completely legal bike? My brompton is probably legal, as I still have the original pedals on it
My commuter has the wrong pedals, and I'm pretty sure if doesn't have a front reflector
I've not seen any policing of this in London, and there are some shocking instances of natural selection waiting to happen. Reflectives are just generally a good idea, and lights when it's dark is a no brainer
I heard that dusk is one of the worst times for accidents, but I don't know where I got that from
Also available for SPD-SL pedals -
My overshoes are flouro yellow with reflective taping up the backs of them. Personally I'd say they are more effective than a plastic reflector.
So does anyone have a completely legal bike? My brompton is probably legal, as I still have the original pedals on it
My Btwin folder should be road legal (was supplied with lights, pedal reflectors and even a bell) now, although it was delivered with the brakes set the European way, which I haven't changed.
No, but if the vast majority of lawful members of society are routinely breaking a law, then there is a call that it should be changed
Nope, that is not how the law works either. If it did we may as well get rid of speed limits.
sort of stuff dodgey types put on the boots of their Astramax/Navara "Highway Maintenance" marked vehicles.
Oi! I've got a Navara which is sporting that 'sort of stuff'. I'm not dodgy (usually).
My bike is very illegal at night. No reflectors on pedals (SPD) and none on the wheels, handlebars or seatpost either 😯
Always use lights though.
Those Shimano reflector units look like they take up one side of a double sided pedal, possibly not a problem since the weight would keep that side down.
As someone noted further up the thread, the only time you are likely to have the bike really looked over is if you are in an accident and the other party's legal team or the police decide it's in their interest.
Thinking about it, none of my bikes were supplied with reflectors, bell etc. Perhaps this is a value-add service by bike shops to save you the trouble of removing them yourself? 🙂
...yes according to CUK the rear & pedal reflectors need to be marked with the BS number or equivalent which obviously rules out any DIY solution even if it were to comply with the technical specs of the standard...
It's BS 6102-2:1982 (Cycles. Specification for photometric and physical requirements of reflective devices) [u]or an equivalent[/u]...
The Tape you buy for vehicles is normally sold as ECE-104 Regulation compliant, that's the standard for the retro-reflective materials (and their positioning) on vehicles, so I would argue that ECE104 compliance, is appropriately "equivalent" to compliance with BS 6102-2.
I would interpret "Marked" as meaning the product had been marked for it's compliance (i.e. assessed) to the relevant standard by a recognised test house, not that the applicable standard is written on the product... of course if that's the law I could always jot a standard ref on with a sharpie 😉
Not that police enforcement would ever get down to this level...
our hypothetical Rozzer will look at a bike, does bike have reflectors? Yes... right then, move on.
Not that police enforcement would ever get down to this level...
our hypothetical Rozzer will look at a bike, does bike have reflectors? Yes... right then, move on.
I'd be amazed if they ever got that far. If the were spot checking bikes at night they'd get enough action from folks without lights and/or riding on the pavements without needed to get into the technicalities of reflectors.
if you were involved in an accident, it would need be shown that your lack of these items were specifically contributory to the accident. Just because you don't have these items would not make it your fault.
contributory negligence may mean any award, if for instance you were knocked off by a car, may be reduced.
first thing a copper is going to do in the aftermath of any accident is establish if the parties involved were compliant with the law.
contributory negligence may mean any award, if for instance you were knocked off by a car, may be reduced.
first thing a copper is going to do in the aftermath of any accident is establish if the parties involved were compliant with the law.
Friend of mine was knocked off his bike by a car. I promise you that the last thing the police were interested in were the reflectors on his pedals or the bell on his bar and I would be extremely surprised if this wasn't the absolute norm.
Is this general interest in legal compliance a response to the the "Shoreditch fixie" case?
Friend of mine was knocked off his bike by a car. I promise you that the last thing the police were interested in were the reflectors on his pedals or the bell on his bar and I would be extremely surprised if this wasn't the absolute norm.
there was a case a few years ago where a guy riding hit, and either killed or seriously injured, a girl pedestrian, and i remember reading part of the testimony of a policeman that attended. he noted that the bike had neither a rear reflector or pedal reflectors.
TBF i take the chance same as everyone else as far as pedal reflectors go, however all the bikes i ride at night have rear reflectors.
anyhow, it's only a problem if it becomes a problem. 🙂
It does seem somewhat bizarre that so few pedals are strictly road legal (within this country at least). The rules have been changed following general usage regarding flashing lights so a similar change regarding pedal reflectors might be in order.POSTED 20 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Well, no. The law was changed to allow flashing >4candela LED lights as they were without doubt better than the 2.4W NeverReady lamps that the law allowed.
There isn't really a better alternative to pedal reflectors. It's willful disregard rather than anything else.
If suddenly everyone started riding around with reflective SPD shoes on, then you could argue that pedal reflectors were archaic, but that's not what's happened.
And it's not like there aren't options available to SPD users. Shimano road pedals come with a little bolt on one that sits under the pedal, and they make SPD pedals with built in reflectors, time supply their pedals with a plastic cage with reflectors. The only popular pedal standard I can think of that doesn't have a practical reflector option is Crank Brothers and heir clip in plastic pedal cover. Not sure about other roadie pedals though.
The lights and reflectors thing is similar to how loud cans and dark visits are treated on motorbikes.
If they stop you for speeding (say) they don't care about your exhaust or visor. Nobody cares.
So yeah, you might be stopped for no lights at night as that's in the interests of safety but nobody cares about reflectors.
On bikes I use for commuting I generally have reflective tyres (far better than wheel reflectors) and a rear reflector on the mudguard. My rear dynamo light is reflective too. Most cycle clothing and panniers have reflective stuff on them too.
I've followed Mrs PP at night and she's lit up like a fairground with reflectors and lights but none of it is obtrusive