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I'm sold on the barefoot/natural footwear approach.
Low heel drop
Low toe spring
Wide toe box
Thin flexible sole
No arch support/intrusion.
That means all my existing clipless shoes, 2 and 3 bolt have gone. The toe box space being the biggest issue.
Now for clipless cycling, I can see that the thin flexible sole isn't going to work. Given the rocking action of pedalling, heel drop seems irrelevant.
I think toe spring is significant, especially if you look to put the spindle behind the ball of the foot.
What about arch support/intrusion? After all, a supported arch is not actually an arch and my arches are higher and stronger as a result of barefoot shoes.
Having said that, Steve Hogg has written some interesting stuff about arch support given proprioceptive feedback to the plantar fascia causing muscles to activate that would otherwise be dormant due to the fixed nature of the foot when cycling.
Anyone had reason to give this any thought?
All this is assuming I can find a clipless shoe with enough room for all my little piggies.
Not an expert, just two personal opinions:
- I think people overcomplicate some of these things. I can understand one wanting more natural feeling shoes for day to day, but considering how unnatural cycling is, how different it is from walking and how relative little time you spend standing on your pedals vs the rest of your day, I don't know...
- I one wants a more "natural" experience, then I think SPD systems are the wrong place to look for, for starters. I'd look at Catalyst flat pedals and a pair of shoes of your choice
Flat shoes and big pedals is what I've been doing for some time on the mountain bike and it's worked a treat.
I was wondering if I could go back to a clipless pedal for the longer distance gravel riding and whether that might help with toe overlap issues as well.
I'd say go for a larger platform and a more flexible shoe, which will likely mean DH style shoes and pedals.
I am interested in trying these
https://pedalinginnovations.com/
with some altra approach shoes like the grafton.
For cycling I am not too concerned about flexi soles, but would still like a naturally shaped shoe.
I think people overcomplicate some of these things. I can understand one wanting more natural feeling shoes for day to day, but considering how unnatural cycling is, how different it is from walking and how relative little time you spend standing on your pedals vs the rest of your day, I don’t know…
If you have already converted to naturally shaped shoes away from cycling, it is really noticeable how ****ing inanely stupid cycle shoe design is, when you have to force your toes into an unnaturally cramped and pointed toe box or buy sizes too big to adjust. Why should fashion dictate the shoe shape instead of the foot?
Yep, wife uses the catalyst Evo pedals and likes them. They, like most flat pedals, work best with a mid foot position. That way, most of the sole flex is taken care of. Having the ball of the foot closer to the spindle can lead to aching feet as the shoe flexes over the back of the pedal.
I'm tempted to try a set of Lems trailhead V2 with a catalyst pedal on the mountain bike. Just wondering if there's a sportier option for the gravel bike. Like you say, flex isn't really the issue, it's having somewhere to put your toes.
https://gearjunkie.com/shimano-vibram-bike-shoe
Unfortunately it was an April 1st spoof.
I would buy those!
@MSP , would you agree that you're generalising a bit about cycling shoe design? I've had Sidi XC shoes in the past that definitely could fit your description, but my latest Shimano GR7, AM7 and Five Ten Impacts couldn't be further away from that
What about these some good Black Fridays deals available.
I’m with zezaskar, I think a lot of roadie shoes share an “Italian” aesthetic, but both my Shimano ME7 and 5:10 are normal foot shaped, and roomy.
I’d look at Catalyst flat pedals and a pair of shoes of your choice
I use a pair of Xero shoes with catalyst pedals. The grip issue is not such a big problem as long as you remember to drop your heels and the more flexible shoe seems to grip the pedal as well as 5.10s I have used before.
Personally zero drop heels seem to make a lot of sense for mountain biking as over the rough stuff riders generally drop their heels to keep their centre of gravity lower and help keep their feet on the pedals.
would you agree that you’re generalising a bit about cycling shoe design
No, they are still not foot shaped, they round to the centre and still push the toes into an unnatural position. Go and compare the toe boxes with a pair of altra, this isn't just about being wider than an Italian last. Once you get used to actual foot shaped shoes, it becomes very noticeable when your toes are being forced into unnatural positions. Unfortunately almost everyone in western society endures it from a young age and just lives with it, unaware of the potential problems.
That's not to say those you listed aren't better than the worst offenders, but they are still making mistakes for an assumed fashion. Bont are the only cycling shoe maker I am aware of who even appear to acknowledge the issue, and they still make compromises IMO. Mind you outside of cycling shoes, very few traditional footwear manufacturers are addressing it as well, it does seem to be mainly new companies making progress.
I'm with MSP on this. Lots of people claim the shoes they use are wide in the toe box but as above, they bad, but not as bad as the really bad ones.
Lake and Bont are a step above the rest in terms of toe box room but still don't come close to an Altra or Xero.
My latest project I just finished might be of interest to you if you like a bit of DIY - https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=164289
I need a wide toe box too and have find most shoes are too tight, so picking a shoe that fits you well and turning it into something you can use for cycling is the way forward, for me anyway.
Unfortunately almost everyone in western society endures it from a young age and just lives with it, unaware of the potential problems.
Or are lucky enough to have shoe shaped feet! Which I have. Must be pretty frustrating and painful if you don't though. Agree that it's mad that shoes aren't shaped properly. As someone said, it's amazing that "foot shaped" appears to be a USP!!
For wide feet the shoe needs to come first and the shape of the shoe makes all the difference. For example shimano wide fit have a very narrow toe box compared to other standard fit shoes. I find specialized good for me but could do with a more square end so I dont have to get them 2 sizes too long.
I dont get the bigger pedal = more power thing. A good stuff shoe makes a big difference.
Or are lucky enough to have shoe shaped feet!
That's because you've been cramming your feet into them for as long as you've been wearing shoes.
It's far from a natural shape.
Aren't Bont kind of shaped like the barefoot type shoes?
"Bont shoes are actually shaped like feet, which is surprisingly rare in the cycling industry. When you put a pair of Bonts next to shoes from just about any other brand, the toe box is comparatively broad and round because of the anatomical shaping"
I N R A T S but
I think toe spring is significant, especially if you look to put the spindle behind the ball of the foot.
It's a pivot, the ground is a fixed flat surface. I can't see how it's relevant, the two simply don't compare.
Toe spring causes shortening of the tendons on top of the toe and adds unecessary tension to the underside of the foot. Anything in front of the pedal spindle isn't adding to the delivery and is just along for the ride, in which case, no need to mess up the tendons.
I fully agree with the OP on shoe design. After spending the last 5 years in natural shaped ‘barefoot’ shoes for running, mountaineering, CrossFit and general leisure time (when I’m not I’m usually barefoot anyway) I’ve found that I cannot fit in any SPF shoes I’ve tried. Before I used a pair of 5Ten Greg Minnaar SPDs or Impacts and now the GMs are super uncomfortable where my feet have regressed back to a more natural shape. I manage ok in a pair of Freeriders on flat pedals but would love someone (everyone) to make shoes shaped like real feet. Brant, are you there? Maybe some F33T bike shoes?
I now road bike in either An old pair of Reebok Nanos or my 5Tens.
The wife has found the same problem as well (compounded by spending her entire pregnancy barefoot/flip flops