[Closed] Quality steel the new Ti

If I was looking for a steel road bike i'd probably get a Shand

Going to regret this but......can I ask why? Plus have you ever owned a Ti frame ? Have you ever owned a nice steel frame? Have you ever owned a top notch Ti frame?

Decent steel over plain gauge Ti any day but like most things it's about how it was put together and the thinking behind it, the choice of tubes, butting and O/D to get the ride you want.
I can see why people like Ti but it just doesn't interest me and certainly isn't the wundermetal people make it out to be neither is steel or aluminium, they are just different and can all make a good frame (and a mediocre one)

I don't know, but what I do know is I have a custom built 853 frame and a high end butted 6/4 Ti frame. They ride very similarly in terms of feel, but the Ti frame is lighter.

I have no doubts that a quality steel frame is easily as good as a plain titanium frame but I'm not sure about a top quality Ti frame but that's just my personal preference as I count lightweight as one of the goals for my bikes. My take on the whole titanium being a frame for life is like many peoples these days I.e. a load of bollocks. The problem with Ti is that back in the early 90s when Ti bikes reigned supreme we weren't riding the crazy trail centre stuff with all the drop offs etc that we are now and as they already gained the moniker of "frame for life" people slate them when they crack. Today a Ti frame can have a set of 150mm forks on it and be expected to land some crazy stuff. Which it will, up until a point. A lot of it is to do with the design of the bike as well though as mentioned previously. Frame for life? No. Better than steel? Reynolds 953 might dispute that. Individual who designs and builds the bike more important than anything? Definitely.

I own a top notch Ti frame, a very good quality steel frame and a very good quality aluminium frame. All hardtails. Having never spent any time off road on an aluminium frame in over 20 years of riding steel and Ti hardtails until the last month or so I was expecting to come home with my ar$e in tatters but was pleasantly surprised. Proving my point IMO that its completely down to construction and the builder.

Check out Donhou cycles. The man builds some stunning bikes and when I made an enquirynover a year ago he mentioned that he had 953.

[i]Today a Ti frame can have a set of 150mm forks on it and be expected to land some crazy stuff. Which it will, up until a point.[/i]

This doesn't just apply to Ti, but any frame material.

But to answer the OP, Ti is lighter - so if they are both well made/designed then Ti is best.

I'd go 953 over ti every single time

I used to think of ti as posh steel... And it sort of is. But I think I prefer to ride characteristics of steel over ti, it has a nice twang/flex.

But obviously not all steel frames are the same.

On the steel road bike front, I absolutely love my Tom Ritchey Road logic frame, a really nice bike.

[img] [/img]

if you went custom you could get rid of the mile of steerer spacers 😆

MrSmith - Member

if you went custom you could get rid of the mile of steerer spacers

And also the inline seatpost.

953 = niche = the new Ti.

Be honest, Ti is/was/always will be a 'look at me' choice rather than actualy being better than carbon. It's nice, but no nicer than other materials.

There are still problems with steel frames though, in that they are heavy and Reynolds 953 is barely stainless and hence, not very corrosion resistant. Either you are going to have to paint your 953 frame or make sure you take an awful lot of care of it. TBH carbon is just so much better now than the alternatives, I'm not sure why people buy steel or titanium frames.

T'was always, will be forever.

Steel.

Ti is/was/always will be a 'look at me' choice rather than actualy being better than carbon

How is ti any more 'look at me' than top-end carbon tho?
I'd go for high-end steel over ti for a road bike after having a few of each inc custom builds, mainly as I value the options available in steel that mean you can do more with the feel than ti (or at least at a reasonable cost), that and I don't think 500g overall makes any difference to my riding. If I did and wanted simple stiffness to weight as well as a relatively comfy ride I'd go past ti and get carbon.
Ti is a lovely compromise of low weight, customisable ride feel and simple aesthetics still, so I see the appeal.

How is ti any more 'look at me' than top-end carbon tho?

High price tag carbon frames don't (IMO) look much different to the cheep ones though, similarly PG Ti frames don't look disimilar to an expensive frame.

But in either case a £700 Ti frame is going to be heavier than a £700 carbon frame, and a £2000 carbon frame will be lighter than a £2000 Ti frame. Ride quality is down to the designer, but they certainly have more scope to play arround with it with carbon.

I'm not saying Ti's bad (just likely to be inferior to carbon in most cases), it's just serving a corner of the market where the user has a high budget and low requirements. The biking equivelent of the £40k Merc hot hatchback on top gear last night, Vs a Vauxhall Astra VXR.

You could say ti or quality steel was inferior to carbon if you were judging on certain specs, spec where carbon does well tends to come from race-inspired bikes but now there's bikes like the new synapse doing what a ti bike did for riders who don't race.

I think Ti / steel is simply an emotional purchase rather than a logical one and that's all good, if you're not racing cycling is simply an emotive experience anyway. There's the custom element that appeals with tubes also; for off-the-pegs of any material there's no more chance of carbon ti or steel being what you really want unless you have a chance to spend a good number of hours on it first. eg, I had one ti custom road frame that was verging on rubbish for me, another that was superb, only thing that was different were the tubes. The one I didn't like as much was bought by a friend who loves it.

Agree on the car thing. For a performance car I'd be happy with a Focus RS, with a bike I want something more emotive and the classic gullwing Merc equivalent would be much nicer - I'd love owning it as a product as much as a tool and my driving skills aren't up to the RS anyway )

I'm not saying Ti's bad (just likely to be inferior to carbon in most cases), it's just serving a corner of the market where the user has a high budget and low requirements. The biking equivelent of the £40k Merc hot hatchback on top gear last night, Vs a Vauxhall Astra VXR.

Oh dear, I have two Ti road bikes, looks like I made the wrong choice 🙄

TBH I love the way they ride, but I would equally consider a nice 853 Steel, in fact I did, I was to impatient to wait for one to be built.

Oh dear, I have two Ti road bikes, looks like I made the wrong choice

Nope, just a different choice. The Merc/Ti is better than the Vauxhall/Carbon (lets say a golf is the 953 in the middle), but not in any way that makes it a better car, they all go from A to B comfortably, quickly, reliably, with a degree of excitement. But the Merc/Ti is better becasue it's a Merc/Ti. Objectively a Hyundai i10/16speed Apollo is probably the best choice.