[Closed] Q for natural runners

You might get fewer odd looks with the Saucony.

*was worried this was going to be about running in the nud*

I really get on with the Vivo neo trails

[i]natural runners[/i]

[i]*was [s]worried[/s] hoping this was going to be about running in the nude*

[/i]

This thread is no good without pictures.

Oh, hang on, actually......

[i]This thread is no good without pictures.[/i]

I'm not gazing at cynic-al's fork in this context 😉

[i]I'm not gazing at cynic-al's fork in this context[/i]

Wait till Hora turns up !

What dyou mean by "natural" runner?

With shoes it's all about comfort tbh, be very careful about changing your shoes. I run an awful lot, most days in fact i often see guys running in those vibram things (mostly I hear them coming....slap slap) I rarely rarely see them more than once....

[i]mostly I hear them coming....slap slap[/i]
😯

+1 Vivobearfoot I've not run in Vibrams but I was given some Injinji socks a few years back and find the way they spread your toes a bit odd, Vibrams will be a far bigger spread than the Injinji's so I wouldn't personally.

One of mates who's a pretty quick ultra runner swears by five fingers though. They just feel/look odd to me, but each to their own.

[i]mostly I hear them coming....slap slap[/i]

HORA TO THE THREAD! HORA TO THE THREAD!

oh and I'd only use a bearfoot shoe off road personally, I'd still use trainers all be it lightweight and fairly flat shoe on the road.

I tried some of the New Balance mt10s on the other day. Very comfortable but I didn't run anywhere.

It depends what your comfiest in. I wear normal trainers, and run nearly always on the ball of my foot, however there's a guy in my club with visually the most awkward stride you've ever seen, and yet he's pretty bloody fast and rarely injured.

Buying different shoes to force yourself into a particular stride ( however well intentioned or researched) is a dubious benefit IME.

I have just got a pair of Vivobarefoots and love wearing them. I've only done the prescribed short runs to get used to them so far - but it's a really nice feeling being able to connect with the ground. Am working up to doing the usual 10km Wednesday night club run in them and then we'll know...

My calves are still protesting a bit at my gentle, mid-foot striking in my lightweight ~7mm drop shoes.

Natural and Barefoot are different things,

Natural Running is simply running in a zero drop shoe, anything from the 4mm sole of the Vibrams to the 10mm of shoes like some Saucony/Asics.

Barefoot is either running barefoot or running in a shoe with very limited padding on the sole, Vibram, Vivo etc

You'll always be best moving to a zero drop shoe with cushioning before a barefoot shoe. It helps develop your muscles and is more forgiving.

i often see guys running in those vibram things (mostly I hear them coming....slap slap) I rarely rarely see them more than once....

The two things may well be connected. I spent alot of time working on my technique for running barefoot, so when I use five fingers I don't make much noise at all. I often surprise people as they don't hear me 'approaching'. I also use Inov road shoes with a zero drop.

I would recommend both, but try as many different shoes/'systems' as you can.

[i]mostly I hear them coming....slap slap[/i]

Are they coming from behind?

'Barefoot' runner hear and I don't think i slap slap, as I do generally run pretty light.

Are they coming from behind?

'Barefoot' runner hear and I don't think i slap slap, as I do generally run pretty light.

Slapping is poor technique often because they still heel strike and then "slap" their toes down.

the idea being to land with the weight momentarily on the ball of the foot and lower the heel down in a controlled way using the calf muscles(this has taken my calves some getting used to). The knee is bent and there should be no jarring.

This shouldn't produce noise.

Have a gander at the vivo barefoot training clinic (if you can bear the god-awful "sign up here" popup):

[url= http://trainingclinic.vivobarefoot.com/ ]trainingclinic.vivobarefoot.com/[/url]

I don't think it matters hugely which barefoot shoe you go with, as long as it's comfortable. Just don't go totally crazy with the barefoot style straight away since you'll likely knacker bits of your body.

Proper minimalist running wear:

[img] ?1357775829[/img]

...albeit posh ones.

Very DIY-able.

be very cautious with the unpadded shoes.

I have been wearing Merrell Tough Gloves for work shoes for the past 5 or so months, and have recently developed pain in my foot which would seem to be due to that 🙁
Shame as i had just got some Vivo desert boots which were really nice.

*currently wearing shoes with much more structure*

[i]I don't think it matters hugely which [s]barefoot [/s]shoe you go with, as long as it's comfortable. Just don't go totally crazy with the barefoot style straight away since you'll likely knacker bits of your body.[/i]

FIFY etc etc

I'm very skeptical of the whole flat shoe/ barefoot thing. If it works for you, then great, if not, you can do all sorts of sometimes irreversible damage to your body. Find shoes that are comfy and allow you to run pain free. Whether that's with 12, 6, 3mm or no drop is largely irrelevant.

I switched to Newtons and got achilles tendonitis. Not run for 6 weeks now!

I have a variety of shoes with different levels of drop. My fell shoes of choice are on Inov 8s 2 scale, which is 6mm differential and think this is about right for me (ATM). They make my Adidas Kanadia's feel wallowy.

I have a pair of Merrell trail gloves which I did 10k in the other day (1st proper run in them) and the outside of my calves are a bit sore now (3 days on!).

I will replace my Adidas Kanadia's with some Inov8 Roclite 330s (9mm) for my trainign runs. This is driven by the need for a bit more padding and durability than the fell shoes, but also less differential than the Kanadia's.

I don't have any aspirations to go to a 0mm differential as a matter of course, just working with what feels right. I'm using the trail gloves to build up other muscles - a supplementary exercise to reduce injury.

Thanks all

I much prefer my 6mms to my previous 12s and it didn't take long to acclimatise.

I've got a mara in 5 weeks and a 70.3 3 weeks after that, then 12 weeks to next running event. Maybe I could get used to 0mm in that time.

The Sauconys appeal as there is padding and they are light as ****.

I've got a mara in 5 weeks and a 70.3 3 weeks after that

Exmoor?

[i]Maybe I could get used to 0mm in that time.[/i]

maybe you could...what are trying to achieve by going to 0mm drop?

I have a pair of Merrell trail gloves which I did 10k in the other day (1st proper run in them) and the outside of my calves are a bit sore now (3 days on!).

That happened to me while I was trying to get used to them, you really have to concentrate on keeping your ankles supple and just touching down on the heel... Had to give up in the end, signed up for a marathon and didn't want to be getting used to zero drop while simultaneously ramping up the milage...

Once I'm past the marathon I'll give them another go, they felt pretty good and like you said it's not a bad idea to strengthen other muscles, particularly the ones in the sole of the foot.

I'd seriously think twice about changing kit that works before a marathon.

I love the feeling of barefoot shoes and use them for the odd short run, but realistically the Asics Gel Attracts I use 99% of the time mean I can run faster for longer.

You are allowed to forefoot strike in regular shoes.

There are plenty of 0mm drop shoes with 12mm+ of cushioning also. These are a better option for most runners than barefoot shoes.

Cheers guys.

I guess I am hoping for more of the same improvement I got when going from 12 to 6mm, though some of that must of course have been down to the lighter new shoes.

*ponders*

There are plenty of 0mm drop shoes with 12mm+ of cushioning also. These are a better option for most runners than barefoot shoes.

Indeed. Hoka's, which must be the most cushioned shoe in the history of everything ever are zero drop.

Al, forgot sorry, good luck with your races this year. Hope they go well regardless of what shoes you choose to wear.

nickc, thanks, do you run in low drop shoes?

Is it the lightness rather than the low drop that I am liking, or will I only know by trying some 0mm's out?

Al, look at the Kinvara's from Saucony or any of the Asics "Natural" range.

I've got some Innov8 F195 for roadie fast work. I only wear them when I'm doing speed work, never more than 10k. and some brook off road things which are low drop but very cushioned. For long runs (anything up to and over mara distance I use adidas Boston ATM

Sorry the second part...lightness for the F195, they weigh next to nothing and thats a great feeling. the brooks also weigh less than regular shoes but the compromise is that they leak and you can get very wet feet. Bostons are very supportive, over 20 miles I tend to get sloppy about where my foot lands...

Cheers again...SS: why? The Kinvaras are 4mm?

I'd give your body time to adjust to the 6mm before going to 0mm. A common theme to injuries is 'too much too soon '

Been on 6mm only for 6 weeks odd, no issues, from 400m intervals to 16 mile runs.

Some people can just slip right into it Al, it took me two years.

Now all of my road running is done in one of; Saucony Kinvara (4mm), Inov8 233 (6mm), Inov8 180 (0mm), Inov8 150 (0mm).

The 180's give a massively more barefoot feel to the 150's event bough they are heavier. The Kinvaras are my comfy shoes, and the 150's to some extent, that I go to for a recovery run or if I just feel like an easy ride.

The 233's are my workhorse and take some beating for durability and that feeling of speed. Superfirm, super planted and make no allowance for poor form. Even though the 233's have a 6mm drop they feel like a far more minimalist shoe than the Kinvara or 150's.

So drop and weight isn't everything, also consider depth/material of midsole.

The Trail Gloves, Minimis and VFF's look good for dry trail shinanigans but they come a cropper in the soft stuff...................which leads me onto a brand new pair of 10.5 Inov8 bear grips that I've got going cheeeep.