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Why do people broadcast it this way? A sort of look what I found first? So everyone and his dog can then compete for the fastest time?
Do you mean making segments or just logging rides?
Tbh with so many Internet resources out there cheeky is getting harder to find. Just non official trails now
Ego. They don't care about consequences 'cause they're rad dude. Livin' on the edge. Buckin' the system ... by riding a bike costing £1000's on a footpath !
Well honestly ask on here what the best lakes ride is and loads will yell out a couple of cheeky ones out of Keswick in the first 3 posts as must do trails.
What's the best lakes ride?
There's a couple of cheeky ones out of Keswick.
flag it as dangerous, or report it.
You say broadcast as if anyone actualy looks at a strava profile other than the person that logged the ride.
Maybe they've got permission from the landowner?
Lots of people use strava to find trails, friends of friends will see a top 10 or a KOM on a new trail and then everyone goes to find it.
Strava is deadly for cheeky trails.
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Well in principle I reckon the more people ride cheeky, the better. Access laws in England are nonsense.
Nothing illegal about riding cheeky usually. It's nice to share. Much better than the locals only attitude
There's degrees of cheeky and hora has a point for some trails IMO.
I ride some that have been cut in by other people unknown to me - and I feel it'd be poor form for me to create a segment for those.
There's cheeky and there's CHEEKY.
What the Strava segment search or heatmap doesn't tell you is if that trail is good to go on any day or time or if it's fine of an evening but best avoided at 2pm on a Sunday because it's swarming with families and kids.
It also doesn't differentiate between:
a) legal trails,
b) rights of way that we don't have a right to use ie Footpaths
c) Trails that aren't a right of way but just exist in an area that cycling is generally accepted (eg FC land)
d) Trails that aren't a right of way but just exist in an area that cycling is not generally accepted (nature reserves, private parks, etc)
[deleted as made no sense]
🙂
I ride some that have been cut in by other people unknown to me - and I feel it'd be poor form for me to create a segment for those.
Still on the heatmap though
doctorgnashoidz - Member
What's the best lakes ride?
A couple of cheeky ones out of Keswick 🙂
Well in principle I reckon the more people ride cheeky, the better. Access laws in England are nonsense
Very much this. It's a silly "law" anyways.
I'll file this question under 'who cares' I also agree very much with
Well in principle I reckon the more people ride cheeky, the better. Access laws in England are nonsense.
jekkyl +1
I suppose it depends what constitutes cheeky
For me cheeky at Cannock is the trails someone has spent a lot of time and effort creating which then gets trashed by people riding in wet muddy conditions which I consider poor form
Well in principle I reckon the more people ride cheeky, the better. Access laws in England are nonsense
We have fabulous access in England to a wonderful network of bridleways and footpaths. We have full access to footpaths [b]on foot[/b].
You sound fun.
We have fabulous access in England to a wonderful network of bridleways and footpaths. We have full access to footpaths on foot
That's a relatively recent change and ought to be further amended for the sake of common sense.
Still on the heatmap though
Well it's usually surrounded by more popular trails, so not really identifiable.
But I'm sure these trails will go on Strava as segments soon enough, but then more will be created and we'll end up with even more great trails to enjoy riding while disregarding this nation's archaic and impractical access rights.
Fight the power!
We have full access to footpaths on foot.
aye, daft isn't it... 😆
This all presupposes that anyone is actually trawling Strava for minor trail transgressions. Apart from other MTBists looking for something to tut at does anybody really care?
What precisely are we meant to be hiding from the rest of the public?
TBH I haven't ever actually used Strava to look for cheeky local riding, I might give it a go today though just for fun... Just to see if it's any use...
What the Strava segment search or heatmap doesn't tell you is if that trail is good to go on any day or time or if it's fine of an evening but best avoided at 2pm on a Sunday because it's swarming with families and kids.
It also doesn't differentiate between:
a) legal trails,
b) rights of way that we don't have a right to use ie Footpaths
c) Trails that aren't a right of way but just exist in an area that cycling is generally accepted (eg FC land)
d) Trails that aren't a right of way but just exist in an area that cycling is not generally accepted (nature reserves, private parks, etc)
True, but there are other maps available which would give you an idea of the local ROWs and geography...
If your looking for trails to ride then strava heatmap is a great tool. Don't really care if it's 'cheeky' or not
I do remember a certain NW based mtb club that posted heaps of routes online which you had to heck really carefully under all the lines as they put loads of cheeky stuff up, this was back 10 years ago.
Last para of interest. Strava isn't the only thing outing mtb use in areas we shouldn't be officially, but it's probably the easiest tool for showing use levels. Whether much can be done with that is another matter.
We have fabulous access in England to a wonderful network of bridleways
No we don't, we have vast areas of countryside with barely a bridleway in sight.
Some parts of the Uk have fabulous access to bridleways, many dont.
Hora, you repeatedly posted videos of stuff because the bog trotters and DofE destroy everything anyway... Apparently
Last para of interest. Strava isn't the only thing outing mtb use in areas we shouldn't be officially, but it's probably the easiest tool for showing use levels. Whether much can be done with that is another matter.
Strava data can also be used to support improved access.
It was quite clear in the US case that Strava was incidental and the authorities had made their minds up already.
Doesn't feel like we have the same attitude here as a rule (with a few exceptions such as New Forest).
Strava data can also be used to support improved access.
Sure, goes both ways. Has been used to improve bike routing in urban areas also I think.
On cheeky off-road use it seems the antis tend to shout first and loudest but whether anyone listens and acts I'm not so sure. Personally I think it's not what you ride it's how+when so common sense and 'don't be a d1ck' over whether you strava it or not.
I thought the [url= http://www.bikebiz.com/index.php/news/read/sustrans-and-ctc-call-for-responsible-strava-use/015150 ]linked bike-biz article[/url] More interesting.
Sustrans and the CTC, essentially asking cyclists to play down their use of existing ROWs (especially those who log their riding) for fear of arming the anti-brigade with some sort of "big data" stick to beat us with...
Is this just preemptive paranoia or are there really groups out there gunning for Sustrans and using Strava data to do it?
I went to check out some new (to me) cheeky footpath the other day to see if it would link up a route. No tyre treads but a good few horsey hoofmarks.
We're not the only ones doing this
Would never contemplate making a segment out of any of it though
Speaking of big data, what does the Strava Heatmap look like for Kinder, and at what stage does that become a sort of e-'mass trespass'?
It may be a case of wanting to be seen to be saying something cookeaa?
On cheeky off-road use it seems the antis tend to shout first and loudest but whether anyone listens and acts I'm not so sure. Personally I think it's not what you ride it's how+when so common sense and 'don't be a d1ck' over whether you strava it or not.
Totally agree.
Also I think there's a case for "secret" trails relieving the pressure on BWs and FPs in some places (thinking Surrey Hills as prime example here).
jekkyl - Member
I'll file this question under 'who cares' I also agree very much with
Well in principle I reckon the more people ride cheeky, the better. Access laws in England are nonsense.
POSTED 2 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
I'll join in because I'm knackered from riding and a little bored.
Jekyll nails it 8)
Sustrans and the CTC, essentially asking cyclists to play down their use of existing ROWs (especially those who log their riding) for fear of arming the anti-brigade with some sort of "big data" stick to beat us with...
Reads as if they're saying 'don't be a dick', especially not a recorded and uploaded one.
I'd also take issue with the idea that everyone using Strava is some sort of competitive, speed-crazed nutter chasing segment times with no regard for others. Most of the Strava users I know use it simply as an easy way to record their rides and keep track of what their mates are doing.
Yes, some people get stupidly competitive over riding a particular bit of trail quickly, but they'd be just the same out riding with a bunch of friends. As far as 'cheeky' - hate that twee label - trails go, I don't really get the 'it's okay for me to ride them, but not anyone else' thing.
Perhaps all those pesky footpaths need deleting from Ordnance Survey maps as well?
Speaking of big data, what does the Strava Heatmap look like for Kinder, and at what stage does that become a sort of e-'mass trespass'?
I did a blog on that subject (kind of) last year...
http://unduro.co.uk/thoughts/our-mass-trespass-is-already-happening/
You can't put the genie back in the bottle, everyone knows it's happening so let's shift the conversation to "look, it's already happening and there isn't really a problem".
I was out walking the dogs on a footpath through the local woods yesterday when three fat storm troopers on full sussers came hooning around a blind bend nearly wiping us out.
If you have to pretend to be hardcore whilst riding on a path please do it considerately.
Most of the Strava users I know use it simply as an easy way to record their rides and keep track of what their mates are doing.
totally agree with this, I genuinely don't know anyone who's competitive about it.
As with most things in life, not being a dick about it is the best course of action.
Reads as if they're saying 'don't be a dick', especially not a recorded and uploaded one.
I'd agree with the "[i]don't be a dick[/i]" message but why deliberately equate Strava use with being a dick?
The two are not actually intrinsically linked, and I'm still not clear if Strava is offering up some evidence of dickish behaviour by cyclists on shared routes or its just the general assumption that it is/will...
Feels a bit like being bollocked for something you haven't done and were never going to do just because of someone else's assumptions...
As with most things in life, not being a dick about it is the best course of action.
Sadly a significant poportion of the population struggle with this.
The problem is that Strava doesn't discriminate between dickish cheeky trail usage like
and someone riding that same trail considerately at 7am on a Thursday when there is no one else about.I was out walking the dogs on a footpath through the local woods yesterday when three fat storm troopers on full sussers came hooning around a blind bend nearly wiping us out.
Also, there seems to be a pervading opinion on here that Mountain Bikers are by definition "Not Dicks", which based on my experience of dealing with some local riding groups, is simply not the case.
The problem is that Strava doesn't discriminate between dickish cheeky trail usage like
And who knows if they were on Strava or just smashing it for fun...
And who knows if they were on Strava or just smashing it for fun...
I think you missed my point... The point was that with strava the dickish behaviour is recorded for posterity and visible to pretty much anyone and everyone via the heatmap.
For the record, I bet one of the three was using strava!
The heat map doesn't tell you much more than footfall. Logging or not the desire to race hard has very little to do with Strava, those that want to hammer it do it anyway
Until you make it private. Then you can be an anonymous stravadickory rider.
If you want to smash segments then use a bit of common sense and ride to what the trail location, conditions and traffic allow.
For the record, I bet one of the three was using strava!
Pretty easy to find out.
https://www.strava.com/activities/search
Podge I posted one video of a 3hr ride recorded in the Peak, it had everything in it and didn't identify the co-ordinates of anywhere unless you already knew it. It wasn't a vid that I personally shot but you took offence. I imagine it's because you never ride cheeky. My point was THAT descent had featured in the boggies ride where 30 went down it.
Brant no idea what you said but I got pushed and shouted at riding in Hebden. Apparently he was annoyed that '17' night rider's often ride down this path every week. Not sure if any were wearing expensive middle aged slacks though 8)
Podge I posted one video of a 3hr ride recorded in the Peak, it had everything in it and didn't identify the co-ordinates of anywhere unless you already knew it. It wasn't a vid that I personally shot but you took offence. I imagine it's because you never ride cheeky. My point was THAT descent had featured in the boggies ride where 30 went down it. Inclusion on Strava gives ANYONE an invite but not just that-to compete and beat times. That is what also can make it dangerous. That element.
Brant no idea what you said but I got pushed and shouted at riding in Hebden. Apparently he was annoyed that '17' night rider's often ride down this path every week. Not sure if any were wearing expensive middle aged slacks though 8)
I always ride early, slow/stop and chat. If I was on a timed Strava section would I even slow?
I've had a good rant at an mtb-er riding fast down a footpath who nearly hit my dog, its a busy walkers path in the Surrey Hills near Guildford with signs at all entrances which say "no cycling", its an area with Bridleway alternatives, I have seen it being used by a group ride of more than 10 people too.
As above Strava has been used in the US to ban mtb-ers as it shows how fast they are riding down trails with other user groups.
As above Strava has been used in the US to ban mtb-ers as it shows how fast they are riding down trails with other user groups.
So basically Strava will get people banned from where they are not strictly supposed to be? I think it was covered above that Strava was a convenient help to people who had decided to ban bikes.
Grasp the nettle use it as a force for good
Most of the Strava users I know use it simply as an easy way to record their rides and keep track of what their mates are doing.with signs at all entrances which say "no cycling",+1 for reality without the paranoia
and since when did some random sign allow you to have a go at others .....
Strava has been used in the US to ban mtb-ers as it shows how fast they are riding down trails with other user groups.
ban away, who is going to enforce this in the UK? Answer = nobody
with signs at all entrances which say "no cycling",
our trails have signs that say 'dogs must be on a lead' they never are ....
Our local one says no walking cycling etc then another one a it further about mind the gaps 😉
and since when did some random sign allow you to have a go at others
Conversely why should anyone do anything they shouldn't without thinking there will be consequence, even if the consequence is simply being called out for their actions? Seems to me plentry of people are happy to do what they want as their God given right but can't deal with being caught out. A lack of respect deserves no sympathy.
If I was on a timed Strava section would I even slow?
No of course not, because one of the conditions of using Strava is that a small explosive implant is inserted in your brain - once you enter a timed segment, any backing off and the implant will blow your head to pieces...
Or you might just be a responsible, sensible rider who uses Strava as a social recording devices and rides just the way they would without it. I guess it depends on the individual and their level of impulse control or, in more basic terms, how much of a dick you are.
Another shocking fact: competitiveness & consideration for others aren't mutually exclusive.
BWD if your uploading your ride then surely you wont want your peers thinking you are a slacker on a bike. There's that element.
if your uploading your ride then surely you wont want your peers thinking you are a slacker on a bike
I upload it all, I'm sure nobody has the time to go through it all. Last Sunday morning was a ride done at a real slow pace showing someone around but what the hell it adds to the monthly total so it's uploaded.
At times people should stop putting their attitudes onto other people's motives.
As long as you don't compare your times on segments against others crack on. If you do and aim to move up higher where yu share trails with other users then no. Disagree.
I can't do both? Good trials with good sight lines I'll go for it, some of our best ones ban walking along with bikes so I'll crack on through them.
What if it forgot my Garmin didn't record the ride but went fast anyway?
Is my fast too fast or me pushing it or can I ride just a shade slower than Peaty or Bryceland and be OK for not trying to move up the list?
BWD if your uploading your ride then surely you wont want your peers thinking you are a slacker on a bike. There's that element.
I think you may be confusing me with NBT... but in all seriousness, why would I care? Some people are faster than me, some are slower, some days I ride quite briskly, other times I potter along and look at the scenery. But, as above, I try to be considerate, polite and friendly to other trail users regardless.
To turn things around, I've never looked at a mate's Strava upload and thought they were 'a slacker on a bike', mostly I'm just intrigued as to where they've been and who they've ridden with. I guess some people might think like that, but it'd be a pretty chimpy way to carry on.
As a load of people have said, some people will ride like anti-social dicks whether or not they're using Strava that's just people for you.
Where I ride around Darley Dale/Matlock a lot of the best trails are footpaths unfortunately and there's no way we aren't going to ride them. They are naturally going to be created as segments as they are some good descents. My ethos is simply try and be aware of/courteous to walkers
Why anyone is remotely interested in putting anything on strava for others to see is beyond me. Use it as a training device for yourself, fine. But otherwise, why not cut to the chase and just post a photo of your cock next to a ruler?
Why?
It's great motivation
I can see what my mates are up to around the world
It keeps me honest in my training
It sorts out the "I was just behind you all the way" bs
It challenges me
It's fun
Why do you feel so threatened?
Because I'm inadequate. Obviously.
dannyh - Member
Why anyone is remotely interested in putting anything on strava for others to see is beyond me. Use it as a training device for yourself, fine. But otherwise, why not cut to the chase and just post a photo of your cock next to a ruler?
It's a bit of fun, creates a bit of banter and I haven't got a ruler big enough
Calm down, it's not my fault all your rulers are broken.
@CookeAA asked:
Is this just preemptive paranoia or are there really groups out there gunning for Sustrans and using Strava data to do it?
Yes, I can say categorically that in my advocacy work I have witnessed anti-MTB'ers approaching public authorities and quoting strava as proof of cyclists riding "illegally" "recklessly" and "racing" on footpaths.
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Brant no idea what you said but I got pushed and shouted at riding in Hebden. Apparently he was annoyed that '17' night rider's often ride down this path every week. Not sure if any were wearing expensive middle aged slacks though
Oh I posted something more about the fact that cheeky trails and KOMs don't work for me as KOMs don't count dabs.
But that didn't make sense in the context of this thread so I deleted it.
I assume this is the incident on Midgets Pit or Tron or something like that at the back of the Fox and Goose. Or maybe not. You have mentioned that many times before.
Strava is clearly a land management Trojan horse app.
Yes, I can say categorically that in my advocacy work I have witnessed anti-MTB'ers approaching public authorities and quoting strava as proof of cyclists riding "illegally" "recklessly" and "racing" on footpaths
But I didn't ask about footpaths, I said sustrans (and by extension I suppose any other shared use path) routes where cyclists already have a ROW.
TBH fair enough if they spot some cycling activity logged on a footpath, although I am still not clear what the consequences are, has there ever been a conviction for cycling on a footpath? I doubt our local authority have either the will or funding to chase these evil cyclists through the courts...
When we dug a trail at Glentress for the EWS a couple of years ago I was pretty chuffed that rest of the Trailfairies went for the name I suggested for it. But then a rider found it and put it on Strava before we were allowed to acknowledge its existence and gave it a different name, which now seems to be how most people know it.
I understand that this is a trivial aspect of the debate but I am petty and trivial, so it rankles me. 🙁
Well, in answer to that Cookeaa, Yes, part of their complaint was about cyclists illegally racing on bridleways, as they (rightly or wrongly) interpret Strava use as equivalent to time trialling.
(we are into technical definitions of what amounts to a 'trial of speed' in law here, and you could make a case either way)
as for consequences - the group I am discussing have successfully prevented increased bike access on one well known trail in the past, and as discussed above are now using strava to reinforce their arguments for signs and gates, and have tried to get the council to impose byelaws - might not mean anything to the minority who din't give a toss about anyone but themselves, but if you want to see improved access and a brighter future for your kiddies, then it certainly has the potential to hold us back - at the same time, you could spin Strava data differently, and use it to form an evidence base for increased access demand, potentially even in the longer terms as evidence for a bridleway/RB applications on basis of use.