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Vitus substance frame and fork (came with a 90mm stem)
Swapped bars to sonder bombers and a 50mm stem for a more relaxed position
Get cracking neck pain for 2-3 days after riding it and TBF only ride it for that fast road/gravel feel, nothing techy
If I bob a flat bar on it should be more useful and less neck pain In my head.
Outlay is £75 max as have a brake lever, bars, grips.
Just need another lever, a shifter, and an 11 speed mech
Makes sense right?
All depends what is causing the neck pain. I find flat bars give me neck pain as hand position leads to elbows out.
I am lucky that I ride a bike with no levers on bars so can swap bars around in 2 minutes and having tried flat and riser bars numerous times always end up on drops as hand position is the same as way hands fall when holding by your side so no 90 degree twist of wrists.
Maybe try a stooge bar, or a Geoff Jones style one?
Riser bars on my fs don't give me neck ache
If you want the same position as your mtb use stem plus virtual top tube as a guide
I changed my Sonder Camino to flat bars with bar ends and it’s perfect for me now. Without the bar ends it wouldn’t be comfortable enough for long days as you want several hand positions for gravel riding really.
Depending on what your rear mech is you might be able to use flat bar road shifters instead of having to replace the mech, these are what I have with a GRX 11 speed mech: https://www.bikeparts.co.uk/products/shimano-ultegra-sl-rs700-band-on-flat-bar-shift-lever-11-speed-right-hand-black?currency=GBP&variant=42273351368861&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=a894e8283159&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=17176658334&gbraid=0AAAAAC6PGhx8DlAyhEhTqQvvLLHutP-h1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9O_BBhCUARIsAHQMjS7nqKsIfvsNqYoSExFRVbqVL-nYwgRa8tGSoBLi9iTLwr8VxnXtKnkaAkjUEALw_wcB
It's weird to attribute neck pain to drop bars rather than riding position, imo.
I'd try putting a higher rise stem / more spacers on first. Geo on gravel bikes is kinda designed around drop bars, for a bike which fits you, you can't really just swap to flat bars without compromising handling.
I went down the higher rise stem route on my gravel bike which all but ended neck pain. Looks a bit naff but I can live with that if I can ride more comfortably.
I'd actually kinda like someone to make the opposite - some really wide flared drop bars for mountain bikes. Current trend of very wide bars seems somewhat necessary for bigger wheels, but puts me in a sub-optimal position for efficient climbing, and in a particularly un-aero position for powering along the flat.
So easy to experiment, I'd just say give it a go, no substitute for just doing it. One of my favourite bikes is an old Boardman which was literally just their road bike frame they slapped flat bars on, conventional wisdom says that should make for a dog's breakfast but it's great, basically the first long ride I did on it was the last time I ever thought I'd have drop bars again. Fast hybrids are fantastic tbh
It's weird to attribute neck pain to drop bars rather than riding position, imo.
It's really just looking at the same thing from different angles tbh- bars dominate your riding position, it's the easiest way to make a big change. And big changes are usually best for figuring this sort of thing out, bracketing rather than trying to tiptoe to perfection, you can't usually increment your way out of a really unsuitable riding position that's causing problems.
And big changes are usually best for figuring this sort of thing out, bracketing rather than trying to tiptoe to perfection, you can't usually increment your way out of a really unsuitable riding position that's causing problems.
If the riding position is *massively* off, then yes, a big change might be appropriate. But I disagree that bracketing ever is with road bike fits. Assuming that most people can get a fit *approximately* in the right area, going too far away from it doesn't reveal where things are wrong, it just causes different issues. It's all about changing one thing at a time, in relatively small increments - changing to flat bars has too many variables if you're aiming to correct fit; puts your wrists in a different position, puts your stance wider (and thus possibly lower), more likely end up riding with your elbows locked out, likely to want to change the stem too to adjust steering offset introducing another factor.
Like, if you wanted to change to flat bars because you prefer flat bars, or you wanted different handling characteristics, or you hated the look of drop bars, or you just wanted to be controversial, sure. But for trying to fix biomechanical issues, it's a poor first port of call imo.
Do it,
On my Tripster I went from this, as it came, fresh from the box that morning (I worked in the shop as mech)
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To this with flared bars
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Then to this, frame up total rebuild with xtr shifters/mechs/middleburn chainset/chris king/son dynamo hubs on carbon rims/carbon jones bars, Ti seatpost/stem/trp spyre slc brakes
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If the riding position is *massively* off, then yes, a big change might be appropriate.
It's causing the OP "cracking back pain for 2-3 days after riding it", the riding position is massively off.
It is, I'm stiffer than cardboard and the back angle then head up to see when I'm in the drops hurts !
Yep I know it's not right I'm in them middle of the size guide for the bike I have. The stem is shorter etc. It's as high as it will go with spacers but as I have a bad neck as it is from an off a few summers ago that I have physio for it's not as simple as the position of miles off
There are plenty of flat bar gravel bikes about so it should be perfectly doable (I think that there was even a Vitus Substance with a flat bar).
Redshift also do their Top Shelf gravel bar that can have 50mm or 70mm rise but come in well over your £75 limit.
https://redshiftsports.com/products/top-shelf-handlebar-system
Riser bars on my fs don't give me neck ache
Will flat bars on the gravel bike put you in the same position as when on the FS? Have you measured it to see how close the position is - saddle to bar drop, saddle to bar distance etc,.
A Quick Look at the geometry, in my size, the Substance, is very low on stack, 3cm less than my Arkose. Plus my Arkose now has a steel fork so I’m using lots of spacers. I’m pretty inflexible due to past neck and back issues. With my crazy high bars I’ve been comfortable for a 12 our day.
Personally I’d try one of these to raise the bars before doing anything else. Cheap to try and will give loads of adjustment.
you could potentially save the cash and hassle and focus on stretching/yoga type exercise for a bit ? I know that if I don't keep on top of stretching most days, plus at least one yoga class per week my neck and shoulders get pretty achy on the bike, any bike.
Has become more crucial as I've got older
This is probably just me,but I have always felt that riding on the hoods ( where a lot of folk spend most of the time)on wide curly bars,never felt a million miles away from a ( narrow) flat bar with bar ends.
Anytime I have swapped to flat bars on a road frame,it was usually a commuter/tourer build. If I ever got too bothered about lack of hand/aero options for longer runs, I just chucked some short tri bars on. Shimano always seemed to work better at mix and match for controls.
I did this with my Vitus Substance. Put a flat bar on it and used stuff laying around which came of another MTB (hydraulic brakes and shifters). Changed it because dont like drop bars, and also the mechanical brakes it came with werent so great.
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that looks good!!
I've got a flat bar gravel, with bar 'mids', i.e. bar ends mounted inboard of the grips. Gives the increased control that a flat bar brings for bumpy bits, and a tucked in position for wazzing along cycle path/road bits. Looks a bit weird but works great.
Personally if yopu don't have issues on an MTB, I'd just sell it and buy the equivalent XC bike if that's what you want, just fit the fastest , skinniest tyres you can find. Tbh it's what I intend to do iwith my gravel bike n the next C2W window. I like it, but I'd probably be just as happy having one sub-25lb mid-range XC bike rather than a lower rent hardtail and a gravel bike.
Flats on a gravel bike give a very upright position because you're losing 100mm of reach from the stem to the hoods.
I'd actually kinda like someone to make the opposite - some really wide flared drop bars for mountain bikes.
Jones (and a longer stem)?
This is probably just me,but I have always felt that riding on the hoods ( where a lot of folk spend most of the time)on wide curly bars,never felt a million miles away from a ( narrow) flat bar with bar ends.
Yea, although I think it gives more control. The drops are generally better though, but I have to train myself into using them subconsciously otherwise I forget and just end up trundling along. I usually use them a lot if I've done a lot of riding at the velodrome (where you have no hoods), then fall back out of the habit slowly over a few months.
Are gravel bike progressively morphing into mountain bikes?
Jones (and a longer stem)?
I still want to be able to brake and change gears from the "hoods" (and I don't want to go electronic).
I’ve rode flat bar cyclocross for years. Narrow bars and some inner bar ends…better in every way imo.
it often feels like cheating in a race (much more control)
inner bar ends for aero and a change of hand positions.
I did need a longer stem tho
Just cut off the drops. Sorted. 😉
Are gravel bike progressively morphing into mountain bikes?
No, but I think some people bought into the "it's just like a 90s mtb" thing a bit too hard. At the end of the day if you're going to deliberately make a bike worse eventually people will get bored of it being uncomfortable, less controlled, etc and want to make it better. If it's not fast then what's the point? Those are probably realizing that what they wanted/needed was what 90's bikes evolved into, XC bikes.
I still think the right tool for the job around here (Chilterns) where you probably have 3 miles of tame bridleway for each 600 yard long rougher section are those gravel bikes with super quick 45-50mm tyres that pretty much let you ride the ridgeway as if it's road.
I still want to be able to brake and change gears from the "hoods" (and I don't want to go electronic).
I was thinking they give you the "flared wide" and "top" positions that you actually want, but without the drop that a lot of people never use anyway. Just set them up like normal bars with normal levers and use the loop out front for bags, computers, lights etc.
Just cut off the drops
And add a Tioga Disc wheel. That bike had a Hed disc instead.
My MTB has sweet back flared drops. My Gravel has drops that I use on every descent for control.
It's weird to attribute neck pain to drop bars rather than riding position, imo.
not necessarily, but how are the levers positioned OP? People go straight for short stem higher bars, but then spend 90% of their time with hands on the hoods…
Neck pain is a possible indicator of hoods being a bit rotated slightly too far forwards (or just set “flat”), making your whole arm so odd things and creating tension across your shoulders and neck in an otherwise , normal riding position.
here you go:
or its fine and you should just turn it into a hybrid like every other born again MTBist suffering “Gravel Regret” 😉…
The neck thing is exacerbated by being stretched out, the shoulder is weaker (lhs)
Rhs is fine!!
I've rotated the bars back 1 mark on the bars (yesterday) so will try that first
Realistically I never really ride it, used to for fitness but now run for that at trying to make it more fun/accessible/useful/comfortable
Something like a giant toughroad would be better for me but I'd rather make this feel ok
If you're happy to experiment a bit more with your current dropbar setup, something like the Specialized Comp Multi Stem is an inexpensive way to raise the bars different amounts. I've got one on my Cascade combined with very short reach and short drop Ritchey Beacon XL dropbars to get a higher front end - I do all my descending in the drops, never on the tops or hoods.
Are gravel bike progressively morphing into mountain bikes?
Hybrids always existed but they got a bit of a "granny" image.
Several brands have been selling Sport/Trekking models for years too. For instance, Trek had/has the FX range, Specialized the Sirrus. Some pretty fancy versions too, with carbon frames, high-end drivetrains and so on. I rarely see them here in the UK but we used to have around 60 in our hire fleet and they were both very popular and ideal for most folks requirements. Set them up with mudguards and a rack for commuting and touring or strip them back for something more sporty. Skinny road tyres or 35mm knobbies. Really, really versatile bikes.
Are gravel bike progressively morphing into mountain bikes?
Hybrids always existed but they got a bit of a "granny" image.
Several brands have been selling Sport/Trekking models for years too. For instance, Trek had/has the FX range, Specialized the Sirrus. Some pretty fancy versions too, with carbon frames, high-end drivetrains and so on. I rarely see them here in the UK but we used to have around 60 in our hire fleet and they were both very popular and ideal for most folks requirements. Set them up with mudguards and a rack for commuting and touring or strip them back for something more sporty. Skinny road tyres or 35mm knobbies. Really, really versatile bikes.
^^^this is what I have just got (well picking up in a few days) for my short commute/bumbler bike, a Trek dual sport 3 gen 5 as I just don’t get on with curly bars. It’s basically a rigid mountain bike.
Personal opinion but people do seem to get their knickers in a twist about what bars to use on a particular bike, it may just be my ape like proportions (+8cm ape index) but I've monster crossed xc frames & flat barred road frames with no ill effects whatsoever.
Oh & +1 for decent hybrid bikes
Are gravel bike progressively morphing into mountain bikes?
Hybrids always existed but they got a bit of a "granny" image.
Several brands have been selling Sport/Trekking models for years too. For instance, Trek had/has the FX range, Specialized the Sirrus. Some pretty fancy versions too, with carbon frames, high-end drivetrains and so on. I rarely see them here in the UK but we used to have around 60 in our hire fleet and they were both very popular and ideal for most folks requirements. Set them up with mudguards and a rack for commuting and touring or strip them back for something more sporty. Skinny road tyres or 35mm knobbies. Really, really versatile bikes.
I've had that style of bike for commuting for 15+ years and you're right, they're incredibly versatile and probably what many folk that have a drop-bar gravel or CX bike would be better on. I started with a 2010 Cotic Roadrat which gradually gained wider and wider tyres up to 700x47. Eventually swapped to Brand X's version of the Sonder Broken Road Ti with chunky 700x50s, so another flat-bar 'gravel' bike.
I only swapped onto a drop-bar bike (Cotic Cascade - now with 29x2.2s) after trying and enjoying a more gravel-orientated drop-bar bike on my local trails. I could just as easily have a flat-bar equivalent though for what I ride.
Geo on gravel bikes is kinda designed around drop bars, for a bike which fits you, you can't really just swap to flat bars without compromising handling.
Sonder, Pace and no doubt many more offer the same frame with drops or straight bars.
I had a couple of gravel bikes and really liked them but always got neck ache after 25km's or so. Tried various different bars and stems but nothing worked. Came to the conclusion that after riding flat bar mountain bikes for 35 years my body was used to that and I'd have to re-learn how to position myself on the bike to get along with drops, which I was not prepared to do. Didn't help being tall as the saddle was always miles higher than the bars. Swapped to an XC carbon hard tail which was much better but still a bit low so then did some research in to light bikes with decent stack and ended up with a Spur, which is bloomin' ace! Set up for XC it's as quick as the GB's were.
My SolarisMax has gradually morphed into a hybrid/flat bar /gravel/whatever with rigid forks and 50mm tyres on some old xc wheels and it’s very useful. It’s no lightweight xc bike but the frame is the same weight as the Cascade so not much difference
A mate of mine bought a genesis day one 853 bike, with drop bars and 11spd alfine.
he loved the bike but never felt comfy on the drop bars, so he swapped them for flat ones, put saint brakes on it, bar ends, and eventually a shorter stem (100mm down to 80mm)
it is now perfect for what he wants.
A mate of mine bought a genesis day one 853 bike, with drop bars and 11spd alfine.
he loved the bike but never felt comfy on the drop bars, so he swapped them for flat ones, put saint brakes on it, bar ends, and eventually a shorter stem (100mm down to 80mm)
it is now perfect for what he wants.