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Hmm... not getting much distance between applications at the moment, seems I'm topping up every 150km ☹
Just trying to balance faff of weekly Fenwick's applications vs. fortnightly Putoline application, also trying to figure out if I really need to clean Putoline out if chain before going back to Fenwick's Stealth, I guess any leftover Putoline could stop the Fenwick's getting right in where it's needed?
What are the symptoms that make you want to reapply @13thfloormonk? I get at least 400km and even then I only redo because there is very little left on the links - the chain and shifting are still spot on at that point and I wash the bike after every ride.
I've just done 70km with a newly waxed chain n and it looks like it did when it went on. I certainly wouldn't be expecting to do it again after another 70km.
How are you applying it? DFF?
I get 500+ km on road up to 1500 km!
have you tried checking it by twisting it? You can tell when the wax has gone or if you run a finger along the chain do you get two lines of wax?
What are the symptoms that make you want to reapply @13thfloormonk?
Noise mainly.
Have spent the winter on Putoline (on a different chain) but they were mostly shorter rides. Either way, felt like I got more out of each application before noise.
I've been applying in a DFF. I heat up to 180 then gradually let it cool before switching DFF off and letting a skin form on wax before removing chain. This way a minimum of wax runs off links but recently the amount of wax building up on chainring and jockey wheels has REALLY been upsetting my OCD, despite a wipe fown with kitchen towel once chain has cooled.
Deep down I feel I should stick with it, but almost prefer the predictability of a dribble on lube, even if I have to apply every ride!
I wonder if you are leaving it in too long (????) also 180 is quite hot. I did my replacement chain today and I set the DFF to 110 and left it for 20 mins. I popped the chain in the basket and dunked it in for about 10 mins then I lifted the basket out, turned the chain over and left it for another 5 till there were no bubbles coming up any more. Then I hung it up and gently wiped from top to bottom just pinching the outer links in the rag, and left to cool.
When I put a freshly waxed chain on there is a bit of wax deposited on the jockey wheels/chainring during the first few rides but I wipe it off after about three rides and then it doesn't really get much worse. In fact it seems to get cleaner, someone even asked if I had just cleaned my drivetrain the other day - I hadn't...
My first application was done with just a burner under the tin and it worked well, lasted ages. I’ve since bought a fryer and it’s not lasting. Orange rust marks appearing after only a couple of weeks. Nothing like the original application. Will try some of the methods mentioned above
First application is in summer, later ones in autumn and winter by any chance?
I don't know what conditions you are riding in, but I'm happy to get 25-30 sloppy FoD miles out of a Putolined chain. No normal lube has ever lasted me a whole ride before. It would probably do more, but if the bike's getting cleaned it's hardly a faff to rinse it under the hot tap to get the mud off and plonk on top of the cold wax before I turn the fryer on. As the fryer warms up the chain dries and it slowly sinks into the wax where I leave it on 140ish for 15-20 minutes before lifting the basket and shaking off as much surface wax as possible before hanging it up to cool and wiping the side plates.
This chain has done 1880ish miles so far.
Just trying to balance faff of weekly Fenwick’s applications vs. fortnightly Putoline application
For me, the benefit is not having to clean the grit out of the chain before reapplying wet lube. And not spending 3/4 of a ride with grit in my chain in the first place.
Just checked, my first application last a year of commuting! Granted it’s a short commute, but January to January. I’ve had to redo it twice already this year and it’s heading for a third application
For me, the Putoline isn't a holy a holy grail as I thought. Can currently get 2 rides out of a chain before it needs re-doing. Can tell as the rollers in the chain rattle - if there was wax in there, it wouldn't. There's still wax on the outside of the plates, though.
However, it lasts longer than wet lube and isn't as minging on the chainring and jockeys.
This is on MTB, used GX Eagle chain, Argos DFF, and tried it variously at 190degC with hang until cool and wipe, 190degC with cool in basket and wipe, and 120-140degC with hang to cool and wipe.
I've given up on it, it feels lovely when fresh but the required cleaning after wet, muddy rides results in rust patches early on and dry sounding chains not long after. I think if it was on a
bike that rarely got cleaned it would be a lot better. Bugger to strip off.
MTB on the Weldtite TF2 which is fine applied every ride although prob too thin for longer wet rides. Roadie back on Smoove, will see if I prefer a bit more regular chain maintenance. Generally I'm happy in the garage though so suspect I will.
the required cleaning
What required cleaning?
For those people saying it only lasts two rides in bad conditions - your wet lube probably only lasts a few minutes, but you press on with the rest of the ride as you have no choice. This is the case for me in bad conditions. For me this is probably going to mean much greater chain life.
I can't tell you exactly how long because as long as I've been using it from new I've not needed to buy a new chain.
I'm not really feeling the love for Putoline. Agree it feels great for the ride or two, then it's into the realms of nursing a rusting chain long enough until I can be bothered to fire up the heater again. It has covered my cassette and no doubt jockey wheels in a black greasy coating and just makes a bit of a mess. I can see the value for road bikes, especially touring (because that's most of my road biking) in that it would probably last well through a few hundred miles. Think I'll be stripping it off my MTB chains next time and going back to good old lube.
For those people saying it only lasts two rides in bad conditions – your wet lube probably only lasts a few minutes
This is what binned me off Plutoline TBH, I can get the same performance from Juice Lubes Viking that I could from Plutoline, plus no need to break the chain and no faffing on with a DFF and a tin of smelly wax. More expensive fo'shure (but not so much I really notice) but no drop in performance for my needs (before tjagain rattles his cage)
then it’s into the realms of nursing a rusting chain long enough until I can be bothered to fire up the heater again.
Getting the chain lubricated internally seems to be the slightly hit-and-miss part, but can't tell if you're suggesting that's a problem for you. I've found the solution to surface rust is a wipe with a WD40-soaked rag after a wet ride. And having two chains on the go means you can wax at your leisure and always have one ready to go on when needed.
I love it on the commuter. Fit and forget with hundreds of miles between top-ups. It's also waaaay cleaner so I don't get that build up of commuter sludge all over cassette/ mech/ wheels.
On the MTB I'm undecided. Like many others I'm finding I have to re-apply every 2-3 rides which is more faff than I can be arsed with. Hopefully come the summer it'll last longer again.
I dobbed a bit of finish line on mine the last ride or two, because I didn't have time to re-fry. Lasts a lot longer than finish line on a clean chain.
I dobbed a bit of finish line on mine the last ride or two, because I didn’t have time to re-fry. Lasts a lot longer than finish line on a clean chain.
What Finish Line did you use? Dry?
Am looking for something to take on multi-day trips in case chain needs a top up.
What Finish Line did you use? Dry?
Am looking for something to take on multi-day trips in case chain needs a top up.
I've just taken biodegradeable chainsaw oil, which is pretty similar to the good old finish line green wet lube but comes in 1l bottles for a fiver (and works on the chainsaw too obviously).
It turns the remaining putoline into a greasy, waxy, but incredibly tenacious mess. Which if nothing else, proves there was still wax in the chain and I didn't need to worry.
I tended to use it more on the commuter if I noticed it going rusty in the middle of a week before I could be bothered to wax it.
I’ve just taken biodegradeable chainsaw oil, which is pretty similar to the good old finish line green wet lube but comes in 1l bottles for a fiver (and works on the chainsaw too obviously).
Yeah, I've had to use 3-in-1 in the past, it works perfectly well but was just hoping for something that could top up the Putoline whilst retaining the benefits of it being dry. I rode with 3-in-1 the other day (albeit on a very wet, quite sandy/gritty ride) and the drivetrain was making a hellish noise, reminded me of the benefits of wax vs. wet lubes.
I reckon you are all heating it up too much and boiling off the more volatile contents hence the degradation in performance on subsequent applications.
Cleaning it off? just fill half a glass jar with white spirit and put the chain in to soak while the putoline warms up and shake it around, comes out very clean.
I reckon you are all heating it up too much and boiling off the more volatile contents hence the degradation in performance on subsequent applications.
Naaa, my original putoline is now 12 years old, I swapped to a new tin as I was convinced it had actually gone soft either due to thermal cracking or contamination with other lubes (I don't wash the chain either when new* or after using other lubes).
And for most of that 12 years I turned the fryer up till it smoked.
It's exactly the same. I guess 12 years ago I was boiling it on a trangia in the freezing cold garden of a shared house. Now I've gone middle aged and soft and do it in a garage.
*I actually think this is a bad idea as new chains always seem to stay greasy as the factory grease stops the wax getting in. But I'm lazy and just wax and and then ride till it's worn/washed away.
What Finish Line did you use? Dry?
I used wet, but I think the best one for this is Shimano wet lube. It's pretty thin and seems to invisibly refresh the Putoline without getting it any dirtier.
Cleaning it off?
I don't even bother. I reckon adding traces of white spirit from a de-greased chain is going to do more to alter the oil composition than heating it up too much.
Dumb question, but... how do I know when I need to refry my chain?
Dumb question, but… how do I know when I need to refry my chain?
I usually do it (or switch chains) when it sounds dry and you start to get that drivechain whirring noise on road sections.
But then I've got 4 bikes with it and 8 chains between them (3 MTB, 2 gravel, 2 road and 1 SSCX/commuter) so do more than one at a time and some probably don't actually get anywhere near dry.
Either that or just before a big ride/trip/anticipated nice weather and there's nothing on tv and no other bike maintenance to do.
I’m on about 500km since my last application on the road bike and same distance on my CX bike. Granted conditions have been mostly dry but there’s absolutely no sign of either of them needing another dunk.
The MTB on the other hand tends to need re dunking much more often even in the same dry conditions. Maybe 150km max but probably closer to every 100km. Every few rides really.
I twist the chain - you can tell from that when the goo is gone from the rollers. a well lubed chain its smooth and no obvious hard stop when you twist it - by the time it feels gritty and loose you need to redo it
Right. I've had this magic Putoline on about a week now and my conclusion is....It's shit.
My chain is rusty and graunchy after being in the shed all week.
How is it not rubbish exactly? 😕
Dude, should have gone with Speedwax, Putoline is so 2020
😂
In all seriousness though, is this normal?
Fairly new chain, well degreased with a brush and then in an ultrasonic cleaner, then putolined.
First ride on it last Saturday which was pretty wet to be fair.
Hosed down after at home then got it out today and it's rusty. 😐
This has never happened with regular chain lube so why have I just spent best part of £30 on this? It's rubbish.
My chain is rusty and graunchy after being in the shed all week.
New shed?
Oh wait, that shed... Probably not that then 😉
How is it not rubbish exactly?
Because when we use it, it stays smooth and well lubed for ages. You must be doing something different to me. I use it specifically because it doesn't get graunchy, lasts ages and deals with mud a thousand times better.
Hosed down after at home then got it out today and it’s rusty.
After a wet ride there is a bit of light surface rust sometimes, but I don't consider this an issue - it's not actually corroding the chain. I think it happens where the chain sits on the cassette. A wipe down with WD40 or silicone on a rag prevents it.
I was brief irritated by the surface rust thing, but a winter of running a Putoline chain on CX bike taught me it really is good, and wiping the chain down with GT85 on a rag after a wet ride/hosing is a small price to pay for the performance and durability otherwise.
Could only suggest you had maybe tsken chain out while still too hot? I turn frier off and try to take chain out just before a skin forms on wax, means chain will retain most wax between rollers.
Because when we use it, it stays smooth and well lubed for ages. I use it specifically because it doesn’t get graunchy, lasts ages and deals with mud a thousand times better.
Can you define 'ages', i.e. miles/number of muddy or wet rides before you need to retry?
I'm a convert, just wondering how my experiences match up (probably getting c.150km, about a third of that 'wet', before needing to redo)
Random question, but as a Squirt user, giving that Squirt is wax based, presumably it can be used with Putoline for an occasional top-up when required?
My chain is rusty and graunchy after being in the shed all week.
All bikes self harm if ignored for a week. You need to ride more!
Can you define ‘ages’, i.e. miles/number of muddy or wet rides before you need to retry?
The good road bike has done 864km since the last waxing in February, the hack bike is currently on 264km since April. The hack gets used in the wet and on our local clay based bridleways, the good one on dry days and the occasional road spray when it rains before I have to return home.
MTB has done 164km since it's last waxing in April and not needing attention yet (this has had one wet ride).
Has anyone ever deep-fried their headset bearings (seals-off but otherwise just dunkin' donuts) ?
Has anyone ever deep-fried their headset bearings (seals-off but otherwise just dunkin’ donuts) ?
Nope, did a single speed freewheel though. Was lovely after.
butcher
Full MemberRandom question, but as a Squirt user, giving that Squirt is wax based, presumably it can be used with Putoline for an occasional top-up when required?
I did that, and it didn't "not work" ie didn't cause any problems but it didn't really do very much either. If I'm away somewhere and need a top-up I just use normal chain lube now, again doesn't cause any problems (except tends to look horrible) but seems to do more actual good than adding squirt did.
Ages for me is 500+ miles on the road bike before it starts to get shiny and you can hear the chain whirring round.
Off road, can get similar distances in summer. In winter it's completely conditions dependant.
It will wash off on one long wet ride if the conditions really are horrible.
On the other hand the first winter I had it was one of those years where it was -5 on every evening ride and the ground was frozen solid for months almost like summer conditions, but with more ice and that lasted November to Febuary with zero maintenance.
Can you define ‘ages’, i.e. miles/number of muddy or wet rides before you need to retry?
First winter it was 5-7 hours of properly muddy rides with grit and wet mud. I did the whole of he following summer with just two top ups of Shimano wet, and I was riding 5-8 hours a week.
Anyone had some black powder attracted to magnet when cleaning the chain coated by Putoline? There was a lot of magnetic dust on to the 1x1 inch magnet. Some clickbait articles say graphite has very weak magnetic properties. This can't be all metal from road grit and chain since it was used only for about 100 miles this time (decided to clean it early since I was unable to get rid of excess wax during last winter due to low temperatures in the shed).
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2019/feb/moving-graphite-particles-liquid-using-magnetism
No, cos putting a magnet near my chain is not something I've ever done 🙂
Actually, that's not true, I used to have one of those Polar power meters back in the day.
I am still having a good experience with Revolube. Bit faffy to apply first time, but then just a drop per link every 300km or so. Over last couple of months I have ridden in some wet, muddy, dusty and damp conditions and it doesn’t seem to gum up, attract dirt or wash off. A wipe over with a cloth and a dry brush of the jockey wheels, cassette and chainring every now and again and it’s all good.
I was talking about putting a magnet in a white spirit after taking out the chain after cleaning. So no magnets near the chain.
why are you cleaning the chain in white spirit? its completely unneeded
I am still having a good experience with Revolube.
Is that the clear stuff on my facebook feed? I'm tempted.
To avoid contamination of the wax fallowed by a brake cleaner.
To avoid contamination of the wax fallowed by a brake cleaner.
You're overdoing it, I've got a new tin of putoline, and a 15 year old tin. I bought the new one as I was concerned about contamination with various cleaners, oils, and water.
They're indistinguishable from each other (other than there's only about 650ml of the old one left).
@molgrips. It’s an amber lube, I think I did see an advert for it on FB though.
It’s the quietest, cleanest line I have ever used.
To avoid contamination of the wax fallowed by a brake cleaner.
all you need to do is put the chain straight from the bike into the wax. No need to clean it at all beforehand. The wax does it ( maybe an initial clean before the first treatment)
My tin of wax ends up full of grit at the bottom and the chain is grit free.
New putoliner here.. consistency of the tin I have is more of a very thick grease- I was able to spoon it out the tin but it was difficult. Easy to stick a screw driver in it though. Is that normal?
Recommendation not to clean a chain. Does this also apply to one that has had squirt on it or a synthetic wet Lube like purple extreme
New putoliner here.. consistency of the tin I have is more of a very thick grease- I was able to spoon it out the tin but it was difficult. Easy to stick a screw driver in it though. Is that normal?
Yes
Recommendation not to clean a chain. Does this also apply to one that has had squirt on it or a synthetic wet Lube like purple extreme
If its dirty and oily perhaps otherwise no if its clean and dry
I never clean the chain regardless what it's had on it, just whack it in the deep fat fryer.
Dunno about the consistency thing though, had it been in a hot place before you opened it?
Edit: listen to TJ he's the putoline authority.
My impression was somewhere between lard and boot polish. I did try melting it out of one fryer into another but I ended up doing most of it with a spoon.
Cleaning - I don't know, I don't bother and get good results.
I have recently come up with a theory that if you wipe the excess off after the first ride it actually makes it last longer.
I'm also looking at re-filling old Pritt-sticks with it so I can wipe it on the chain then use a heat gun to melt it in. I'll let you know how that goes.
Edit: listen to TJ he’s the putoline authority
Only because I've been using it longer. someone on here ( Daz?) got right into the science of it
Thanks! So wipe the sides of the chain after application to stop the crap sticking to it?
yes
Re: Cleaning the chain
I'm a recent convert back to it as I ended up with 20litres of 'not really clean enough to risk in the car' diesel.
It does seem to make a difference to how the putoline sticks to the chain, throwing the chain + crap into the fryer seemed to result in a thick layer of putoliney gunk on the chain at any temperature. Washing it first seems to result in an almost clean chain coming out of the fryer, there's a few blobs where it collects, but it's a lot cleaner.
I'm guessing this may be down to riding location? Maybe some areas the rain/mud/grit washes putoline out leaving it 'clean' and others contaminates/dilutes the wax. Or maybe I was topping up less inbetween waxes so it wasn't contaminated with other lubes.
On this .. I just stumbled upon cyclowax - as far as I can tell it's just a regular beauty wax heater like this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lifestance-Digital-Professional-See-Through-Aluminum/dp/B09T6BQD9F/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1BZNLQH8PK1K&keywords=wax+heater&qid=1678796322&s=beauty&sprefix=wax+heater%2Cbeauty%2C74&sr=1-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
but packaged up (I do quite like the chain hanger; I'm sure I could make one / find one for not much money) as a premium product.
So; (to cut to the chase) - has anyone tried a wax heater like this instead of the crock pot / fryer / putoline on the gas bbq mini hob options ?
I never put anything else on the chain. It gets dry on the outside quite quickly but there is still loads of wax left in the rollers where it is needed.
My tin of wax ends up full of grit at the bottom and the chain is grit free.
How do you know the tin is full of grit at the bottom? Just curious.
Fwiw, I use Molten Speed Wax and tend to rinse the chain in hot water before re-waxing, if it's really filthy I'll give it a swish around in a pan of boiling water and dry with a hair-dryer before waxing again. More to keep the wax in the pot as uncontaminated as I can so it lasts longer.
Works for me anyway. It's ace having a chain that doesn't leave greasy black marks on everything it touches.
I also use MSP to wax my legs... actually I don't, but it might be a plan. If I wanted to wax my legs I guess 🙂
So; (to cut to the chase) – has anyone tried a wax heater like this instead of the crock pot / fryer / putoline on the gas bbq mini hob options ?
Nope, but the fryer option comes with a basket, which is really handy for giving the chain a jiggle when it's in the wax, getting it out again and draining off the excess whilst it's still warm.
How do you know the tin is full of grit at the bottom? Just curious.
You can feel it as you stir the chain around. after a decades use there was quite an amount When I got a new tin I decanted the good wax left in the old tin and could see the grit
Based on what TJ has said over several threads I just Putoline it, let it drain in the basket then hang on a nail to cool before refitting.
The chain has plenty of black wax on the outside which might attract muck, but I don’t care about that. It has plenty of wax in the rollers, which is demonstrated by my fatbike chain now lasting about 15-20 winter rides in the Surrey Hills finest grinding paste before sounding rough, instead of 1-2 rides using other lubes.
You can feel it as you stir the chain around.
Another plus (if it matters) of the fryer and basket - you're not stirring/jiggling the chain around in the 'grit layer' at the bottom.
The basket is important. You jiggle the chain around like chips and it helps the wax into the crevices and helps dislodge crud.
It seems to make a big difference whether you clean the chain before first application. I didn't - chain was stiff afterwards and stretched quickly again, as if using lube.
With a new chain, give it several rinses in white spirit/petrol (until the liquid is clear). That makes the putoline stick properly to the metal. After that, it shouldn't matter.
I might have said this earlier in this thread, there seems to be basically 2 camps now, cleaners and not-cleaners. I'm a cleaner, it just hurts my soul to put a dirty chain in the frier, and conversely I like seeing how manky the paraffin gets even with what looks like a clean chain. But I've a pretty strong feeling that it's not actually necessary or even necessarily helpful. For the chain at least, it's definitely helpful for my soul.
How do you clean a chain that's been Putolene'd, assuming you're not intending on using Putolene in the future?
I'm a more recent convert to cleaning before waxing, I just throw it in a big 1l tub half filled with "miscellaneous flammable liquids of doom" (paraffin, white spirit, petrol, diesel, some brake fluid in there) taken from the waste bottle. Shake it to get the external wax off, leave for a bit to penetrate, shake again to flush the fax out the links, leave again, shake one last time.
Obviously if you ever intended to use one of the lubes that are more picky about the chains cleanliness you'd probably need to do and extra rinse with (or just start with) clean petrol, then degreaser and boiling water.
So just did a short local ride after putolining my chain after dinner. Far to early for any conclusions, but I noticed the chain was really noisy. A metallic clacking noise like some turn of the century loom.
I assume it's because the wax is on the inside of the chain and there is effectively no lubrication between the chain rollers and the casette or chainring.
Does anyone else get the same?
Nope, tbh I've never really noticed any difference in noise except for the first few minutes as it breaks itself in and the chain loosens up- you should have a wax coating everywhere after all not just inside
Does anyone else get the same?
Wow, no. My chain is very quiet at first then after a ride or two it becomes simply quite quiet.
Sounds like you've threaded the chain wrongly through the rear mech plates...
Not at all - as above, possibly not got the chain threaded through the pulleys correctly(I did that once, going outside the guard on the lower pulley as it's hard to see, and it was noisy lke you describe) it's really quiet generally. If you leave your chain to cool in the basket like that it looks like you may have too much on the outside if anything, I always hang mine up hot and then drag it gently through a cloth to get all the excess off. Otherwise it just collects around the jockey wheels and chain ring.
I'm chain wax curious.
Has anyone tried it and not got on with it and has a set up for sale?
A couple of folk on here did not get on with it and I am afraid I bought the tin of one of them.
Live anywhere near me in Edinburgh and I will do a chain for you