Putoline question

Like I said before, I was pleased with how the wax performed over the summer. It didn't pick up dirt, ran smoothly and lasted well. It's winter conditions and a bit of proper wet weather that seem to be causing problems for me now.

KCR - I do not disbelieve you - I am just trying to understand the difference in our experiences. 1000 miles winter commuting for me until I needed to redo it. 1/10th that for you. What is the factor that causes this?

Chain is waxed and refitted to the bike. Assuming the post-ride cleaning process is as simple as some are stating I'd have no problem doing this after every ride, so if it lasts longer that's a bonus. Smells bloody awful when hot though.

1000 miles winter commuting for me

Isn't your commute a mile? You must like an OT shift!

doomaniac - run it thru a cloth a good few turns to take excess of the outside - helps stop it staining your clothes.

No beer - previous commute. Much longer.

run it thru a cloth a good few turns to take excess of the outside – helps stop it staining your clothes.

I do this when it's still warm and hanging up. Less black on the outside of the chain - and that black can flake off and get on your jockey wheels etc. But even then nowhere near as bad as wet lube gunk.

Yeah, I wiped the outside down while it was still hot.

Picked up a DFF in Asda on the way home yesterday and got a tin of Putoline coming, this had better be EPIC molgrips, TJ and TINAS!

It’s winter conditions and a bit of proper wet weather that seem to be causing problems for me now.

Yea, it does seem odd though, it obviously doesn't last as long in winter as it does in summer, but it always seems to last longer than I'd expect anything else to.

Usually this time of year I'd count anything left at the end of a CX ride as being better than nothing. The only time I've completely stripped it was at "that" Gorrick enduro at Swinley where it did only last 10 miles (but so did a brand new chain and cassette and a set of sintered brake pads, and everyone quit).

davosaurus rex. If you don't get on with it I will buy it off you

Tj- maybe you should set up a mail order Putoline chain waxing service!

"Roadies, gravellists, Mtbers, send me your chains,
I want to wax drivetrains, not oil'em"

with apologies to Bill Shakespeare

😉

I've been using Putoline in a DFF for 3 or so years. Always been happy with the level of lubrication I'm getting. Regarding temperatures and flammability... I once left mine plugged in and running by accident for about 2 hours and nothing untoward happened. Trainer Road Podcast also say that a waxed chain will save you 2 or 3 watts so I'm in....

Starting reading this thread about "to clean or not to clean" I used to wax mine in slow cooker, was told no cleaning necessary. After a few goes, I tipped the chilled wax out of the cooker and there was a nice black layer on the bottom which I split off and put the cleaner top section back in for reuse. Dunno if that works with putoline.

Is it supposed to boil when the chain is in?

NO!

It should go nice and runny, you see convection currant in it and occasional bubbles

Only if the chains got excess water on it. Then it goes crazy and covers your workbench in horrible boiling putoline foam.

A bit like you should never put wet chips in a fryer, or pour water on a burning chip pan.

Also if it's still got solvent cleaner on it, it'll flash off very fast. Don't think it does any harm.

🙁 I'll turn down the gas a bit. Chain was probably damp too.

Buy a DFF, makes it a piece of piss.

Says the bloke who only got his setup working two days ago...

Will the National Grid be ready for the sudden surge as all the Putoline DFFs start coming on stream!

Edit: 100. Always wanted to do that!!

Is it supposed to boil when the chain is in?...probably damp

Yeh, put a wet chain in and it all goes a bit chip-pan

I've just done my first two chain, in a cheap DFF. Melts easily enough, I did about 150C, for about 20 mins with a bit of jiggling.

The MTB chain had been cleaned before, the one off my Brompton hasn't been cleaned other than a run through an oily rag every now and then.

It seems dead easy but I'm not impressed yet with the finish, it hasn't (to quote TJ)

The molten wax cleans the chain. It will remove all traces of oil and dirt. the wax will stick to an oiled chain

there's still quite a bit of gritty stuff on the inner plates (you know, the narrower links)

What do you reckon? Hotter? Longer? More agitation? or is that some of the graphite in the mix, and not grit?

Will run on the MTB tomorrow and see what it comes back like, if necessary do a proper clean and then rewax.

I de-greased first time by putting the chain in a box with a lid and some alcohol and shaking it a lot. This cleaned all the crap off the inner plates. Then on subsequent cleanings, it didn't have the crud accumulation in the same way.

So I'd say de-grease thoroughly first.

Its ten years since I treated a chain with other lube on it - sorry. Must be your previous lube did not dissolve in the molten wax. 20 mins is loads of time to have it in there

Did my MTB chain this afternoon. As above it is now a bit black on the inner link plates but as the wax is black surely this is normal? Also as it sets black in the DFF then how are people seeing a dark layer of grit/dirt on the bottom after it's been used for a while?
Ran a rag over the outer plates lightly a couple of times while it was drying but still quite a lot of dried bits sticking out at jaunty angles, I'm assuming most of this will flake off with a bit of riding. What I will say is that it's never felt smoother or quieter when I had a spin round the block, the drivetrain on the ebike has always been particularly noisy. If it lasts well and doesn't get too mucky I'll be made up. Hoping for a ground frost tonight and an early race the thaw home ride in the morning,

likewise; chain's back on the bikes and they do seem to be running smoothly, albeit only in the workstand. It's a bit harder doing up the QL though, will have to remember to clean down the ends a bit more next time.

The only other issue encountered so far is that apparently I shouldn't have used the big spoon out of our salad serving set / wedding gift to get the wax out of the tin. Ah well......

Haha, I was going to do similar but my wife caught me so used a garden trowel instead, probably wiser!

but still quite a lot of dried bits sticking out at jaunty angles,

I hang my chain up over the tin for excess to drip off - you don't get the bits left on it.

I did that and wiped it down twice. DFF at 140, nice and liquid. Cold in the garage though, not much dripped off after the initial run off when I lifted it out of the basket.

Oh well - I am now feeling both nervous and guilty hoping you all like it!

I'm not expecting it to be as clean as Squirt or Smoove though, I'd gathered that from photos on here. Much as I love a clean drivetrain I hate grinding noises more so if it stays smooth for a decent length of time and doesn't get completely filthy that'll do me

Fingers crossed I'll be out on mine tomorrow.

Have been watching this with interest. My road commute has been filthy recently and I'm getting tired of having to clean everything after every ride (I don't ride every day, but it's 80km when I do. Plenty long enough to get the bike filthy)

So is £30 about right for a tin of Puteline wax?

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/238292

I paid £25 via Amazon, so yes, about right.

Sounds a lot but you get a lot and if it works and lasts as well as others say it'll be way cheaper, even with the outlay on the deep fat fryer, than bottle and bottles of lube.

And it ran pretty smooth and is still very waxy after today's mucky 20 mile MTB ride.

Thanks!

I am very very sorry chaps - Even I am getting tired of this now
*hangs head in shame*

TJ - me and my ridding neighbors have just pitched in for a 1L DFF and a tin of the good stuff based on the back of this thread.

Will report back too!

I think I'm getting to that age when I no longer recognise the modern world.

I long for the older, simpler days when someone ask "what's chain lube should I use", TJ would say "Putoline, it lasts ages", and everyone else would say "don't be ridiculous TJ, that's a right hot waxy mucky faff".

It's like I don't even know this place any more.

My putoline turned up yesterday, been meaning to try it for a while and this thread was a great reminder

I'm planning to use a camping stove to heat the tin up on so that I don't have to buy a DFF or, more importantly, store it somewhere

TBH IHN, I think if you're doing many miles a week and can look past the initial cost and the faff, putoline is worth a go. I was reflecting on this over the weekend, and for me a good week's milage this time of year is 1-2 rides over maybe 15-20 miles, and Juice Lubes Viking will happily manage that. Given that my bike has to live in the house, it gets washed, and it's easy to drop lube on the chain. For daily commuting or long  winter training road rides, it's hard to look past something like putoline

I don't disagree, the problem is no-one seems to disagree.

The certainty's in life are getting fewer and fewer. Next thing you know, Binners will go veggie...

Wrong thread, there was another "what lube" thread à while back and many folk were pointing out that Putoline has issues, but this is not that thread, this is about the stuff it's self, so those sorts of objections are a bit redundant, no?

So my chain looked like this after 17 sticky, muddy FoD miles today;

I was hoping it would be cleaner.

Doesn't look that much worse than some of the cassette cogs to be fair. More importantly, how did it hold up, still feeling smooth?

Looks pretty clean to me after riding through 17 miles of shyte.

the key thing is " is the chain still lubed?" twist the chain - does it feel gritty and loose or smooth and tight. Run your finger along the top of the chain - do yo get two lines of grease on your finger> You certainly have not got oily clag on the cassette?

It does rather look dry tho 🙁

I think it's going to work for me as I'm doing around 200km per week on my dirty road/track commute. Seems pretty clean after a 30km jaunt around Windsor great park

I was hoping it would be cleaner.

It's chain lube, not bike cleaner.

I'm interested in giving all this a go, especially on my commuter bike. Anyone know if the small rice cookers are any good for this as I have one lying around. I've read they get too hot too quick, but it does have a warm function that might be gentle enough.

I'm thinking of trying the oz cycle recipe of paraffin wax and PTFE powder, but cant find that for sale.

“Anyone know if the small rice cookers are any good for this as I have one lying around. I’ve read they get too hot too quick, but it does have a warm function that might be gentle enough.”

I haven’t used one but I can’t see a problem as rice cookers are designed to take water to 100C and that’s hot enough but not too hot.

I’m thinking of trying the oz cycle recipe of paraffin wax and PTFE powder, but cant find that for sale.

I think the friction reducing ingredient in putoline is graphite according to the description, and judging by the smell is either a high sulphur parafin, or has something like molybdenum disuphlide in it as well.

Just had a quick google and there's plenty of places selling graphite/ptfe/MoS2 powders, but I've no idea what concentration they need to be in the wax.

I’m thinking of trying the oz cycle recipe of paraffin wax and PTFE powder, but cant find that for sale.

Why not just buy Putoline?

Because its 30 quid and I'll never come close to using it all, so it seems a waste.

Look at it another way - £30 for all the lube you'll ever need and a smooth chain all the time. Bargain.

Because the chain always seems well lubed I reckon the chain will last much longer. So it saves money on chains, and also since I am no longer annoyed as hell by the thought and sound of my chain being destroyed, I am much happier to ride in mud. All that is worth £25 for me which is what I paid.

Because its 30 quid and I’ll never come close to using it all, so it seems a waste.

True, and I did consider home brewing some as I think for bike rides you could use higher melting point paraffin which would stay even cleaner, at the expense of not lasting as long (as it would flake off).

And the costs of MoS2, PTFE, graphite powders make it prohibitive unless you went into business selling it.

The chain was still smooth after that ride. I washed the bike when I got home and the mud came off pretty easily. T then wiped the chain with an oily rag and rode it again the following day. Conditions were worse than before, but the chain didn't so clogged up, probably because it was much wetter on the second ride. I washed the bike again, this time while the mud was still wet and took the chain off when I got home to rewax. Twisting the chain didn't feel gritty. Washed the chain again, dried it off and dunked it in the wax for 20 minutes or so. I didn't wipe it down this time, just let it drain; I want to see what difference a decent coating on the outside makes on the next ride.

I haven’t used one but I can’t see a problem as rice cookers are designed to take water to 100C and that’s hot enough but not too hot.

That misses the point that it's rather hard to heat water beyond 100C without a very tight-fitting lid.

So how do you "clean your chain" if it's been putoline'd?

I see the pics from doomanic and adamT.

The putoline will be inside and on the chain doing its job.

But there is muck and grit on the surface, obviously sprayed off the tyres onto the chain you can't avoid that. Putoline rather than lube will mean less sticks to the chain.

But some does stick to the chain somewhat as in the pics - will it just gently wash off with a hose without removing the putoline?

I want to see what difference a decent coating on the outside makes on the next ride.

For me the outer bit flaked off and made the cassette and jockey wheels dirtier. But it might've made the whole thing longer lasting, I don't know, I didn't really evaluate it properly. I'd rather re-lube it slightly more often and wipe if it keeps things cleaner.

Just wash the outside of the chain with water.

doomaniac - it sounds like it didn't really need redoing. I leave mine until you can feel there is no more wax in the rollers

But some does stick to the chain somewhat as in the pics – will it just gently wash off with a hose without removing the putoline?

Pretty much. Hose pipe, maybe agitate the cassette with a brush. But I don't specifically wash it. Just leave it be. If you look at AdamT's pic, that's pretty much how it stays (although I'd say he's left more on than me). The cassette just turns grey with a thin coating of the wax/graphite.

Not entirely sure what some people expect, it's chain lube, it stays cleaner and lasts significantly longer than most other chain lubes. But it won't stop your mech from packing up with mud in a cross race!

Ive bought the Putolene. Ive bought the DFF from Argos.
Once i have immersed the chain, do i just pull it out and leave it to drip by hanging up? Or do i run a scraper down the chain to reclaim some more lube for the DFF?

“That misses the point that it’s rather hard to heat water beyond 100C without a very tight-fitting lid.”

But you’re missing the point that when cooking rice you end up with no water remaining.

breninbeener

You hang the chain up over the tin. The excess just drips off. Run it thru a cloth for an even cleaner chain. there should not be enough left to scrape off

Ive bought the Putolene. Ive bought the DFF from Argos.
Once i have immersed the chain, do i just pull it out and leave it to drip by hanging up? Or do i run a scraper down the chain to reclaim some more lube for the DFF?

I shake it in the basket to remove most of the excess, then flick it over to shake it off the other side.

Pick it out with a hook formed from an old spoke (coat hanger, whatever). Then (wearing appropriate work gloves) wipe it down with an old rag to remove as much excess as possible and leave it to cool (on the rag). Never been bothered about being economical with it. In 10 years I barely made a dent in my first tin.

After the first ride use a twig or a pick to remove excess from the jockey wheels and cassette. Then leave for months and months without having to worry about it.

Not Putoline but I've just finished my first ride after doing all of my chains with Molten Spped Wax, which I chose because it appears to be much cleaner than Putoline. After a very wet ride and wash off the chain looks perfect, time will tell how long it lasts though.

It's working well for me. Pic below is 300km of dirty road/towpath riding after the one above. The cassette is still pretty clean, but the chain is a bit squeaky so needs doing again. I wiped the chain once in that time (about 120km ago).

Rest of the bike is filthy despite guards.

Interesting process doing putoline for the first time. Very wed and muddy ride this morning, but a quiet and smooth chain at the end. Hurrah!

When the tin arrived, even though I knew it was a litre, the images on amazon don’t really do the size of the tin justice. To quote The Big Yin ****ing huge!

The process itself was pretty easy, chain is HOT when you take it out and it can be very messy, but after chain three we had the technique down pat and it was remarkably easy.

Only other comment is: my goodness, its tenacious stuff in its waxy state - once its on stuff, it gets bloody everywhere (trousers, spoon, dishwasher 🤦‍♂️

I use a small Rice Cooker and it's perfect (with Molten Speed Wax - I'm going to try this Putoline stuff though and the principles are the same).

A Rice Cooker will easily heat the wax to very thin/runny consistency - which is what you want for it to penetrate all the way into the pins and rollers. However, according to that Aussie bloke's vids on YouTube, you don't want to remove the chain from the cooker while the wax is that hot/runny, since the wax can run out too easily... you want it to stay in the pins and rollers, so let it cool off a bit first, by simply unplugging the cooker/fryer.

I let mine cool until the point where the wax looks like it's just about to turn from liquid back to soft wax, then I remove the chains and quick links.

What I do is periodically dip a screwdriver blade into the wax while it's cooling down to feel the consistency of it. When it's how you want it, remove your chains.

you need to be careful there, even relatively pure waxes are fractions and will solidify at different temperatures, if you let it go too far some fractions will solidify while others run off.

I really don’t think you’d want to let the Putoline cool with the chain in it - even taking the chain out with the Putoline at 150C+ plenty sticks to it!

@big_scot_nanny your garage is disturbingly clean, although the large screwdriver you've accessorised with Mole-grips is a nice touch.

I had another filthy ride today; 16 miles in FoD slop and the drivechian was totally silent throughout. Still waxy too, even after washing the bike.

What are folk using to prevent rust spots?

Been a Putoline user for a year or two now, with mixed but generally positive results so I've been lurking on this thread. Good to see people having success with it.

My last batch of chains haven't worked so well though. Brand new 11 speed chain for the gravel bike. Did a dry 200km road ride two weeks ago, and it was starting to squeak a bit this morning when I went out for a 100km ride on muddy roads/paths. It was quite wet, and by the time I got back the chain was making a racket.

I've tried various heating/soaking/cooling times but haven't settled on a method. These were in for a good 10 minutes with the wax properly hot, almost smoking, then left to cool slightly (I think it runs out otherwise) and then taken out, left to cool, excess wiped off, etc. I think with these either they came out while the oil was too hot and it's run out, or the factory coating has stopped it sticking properly. Suspect the later.

My first go lasted 3 rides totalling about 50 miles on the ebike. First two were muddy but nothing too bad, bike got a light hose off, didn't do much to the drivetrain. Thursday was minging, as wet as it gets, mud flung absolutely everywhere. Gave the whole bike a good going over with hose on medium pressure while mud was still liquid. Chain still sounded and felt OK at the end of the ride but hose was obviously. too much for it as inner links were turning orange the next morning so have redone it. Will see how that goes, might try letting it cool a bit as above next go. Had hoped it would last longer but it is smooth and easy to reapply so not too distraught. Must put overalls on though, got a spot on a new hoody which Vanish isn't shifting.

Interesting stuff peeps, I am tempted but burnt after .my chainsaw lube experiment 😁

since the wax can run out too easily… you want it to stay in the pins and rollers, so let it cool off a bit first, by simply unplugging the cooker/fryer

Surely the forces behind capillary action hold the molten wax in?