Putoline question

Wax wont stick on an oiled chain, so yes a new chain will need the oil to be removed first.

You will need to remove the dirt/oil/grime/crap from a used chain, otherwise you are just putting wax ontop. Or trying to get it to stick to dirt.

Dont forget the only lube you need is the lube inbetween the pins/rollers. Not the external bits you actually see. Its hard to get lube/wax in there.

Not sure why you would oil a waxed chain. That seems pointless.

No need at all to clean it first and its counter productive if you get degreaser mixing with the wax

The molten wax cleans the chain. It will remove all traces of oil and dirt. the wax will stick to an oiled chain

the whole point of it is that the wax gets into the pins and rollers. It goes in by capillary action

Do not oil it afterwards - its just stops the wax working. If the outside of the chain gets dry before the wax is out of the rollers you can run the chain thru a oily cloth to prevent surface rust.

follow the instructions on the tin

Ha, thats the opposite of what I was saying 🙂
So are you sure the wax will stick to an oiled chain ? Ive not tired it myself, but it just seems unlikely. Im happy to be wrong.

I can also see how the hot wax could work its way into the pins and rollers, I just figured it would be easier, faster and more likely if you did remove the oil first. Obvioulsy ensuring any degreaser wasnt left in its place.

I was about to try waxing a chain on the weekend and found some you tube examples where they all showed using petrol then degreaser, then meths to clean, de-oil and prepare the chain for the wax to stick to.

TJ+1

The Aussie guy on youtube who makes his own wax lube was adamant that the chain must be thoroughly cleaned before first application of wax but no cleaning required for rewaxing.

I would have thought the same tbh. Happy to be proved wrong though.

@edward2000 - thanks for asking the question, was in my head too.

@tjagain - is there a type/model of fryer you recommend? looking at amazon, seems there is a plethora of models around 25 quid, does it matter?

Think for my family's chains, and my riding buddies, this is a no brainer investment.

excited! is that wrong?

So are you sure the wax will stick to an oiled chain ? Ive not tired it myself, but it just seems unlikely. Im happy to be wrong.

Putoline needs to be really hot, I have my fryer set to 170 degrees. This melts any oil or wax that's already on there. Then you jiggle the basket around and it cleans up the chain a treat. I dunno about homemade wax but I think they are just heating it up enough to melt it which with paraffin wax is only about 50-60 degrees AFAIK.

There isn't any grit or dirt in the chain - that's the beauty of it.

I think TJ is incorrect on this on, also not wholly so because he's clearly having results anyway.

is there a type/model of fryer you recommend?

I have a cheap Asda one (it was free) with an exposed element. I do not recommend this kind because most of the hot wax is under the element and inaccessible. I'd imagine a one person model would work, I imagine the basket would be big enough but I don't know for sure. Some for £15 on Amazon. I'd be tempted to get one with a variable temperature so I could be sure it was set on a medium setting.

I use Putoline and like it a lot
Don’t know what’s the correct way of using it , but my preference is to degrease/clean new or old chains overnight in a pot of white spirit,then give a really good wipe down
I then proceed with the cheap electric chip pan and the wax
My thinking is that I don’t want to contaminate/dilute the Putoline in the fryer with muck or other lubricants
I use no other lube on the chain between treatments
Hope that helps

I don't use a fat fryer. I just put in on the hob

Follow the instructions on the tin. there is no need to clean the chain at all- the molten wax does it. after a few years you can feel all the dirt in the bottom of the tin.

One of the beauties of this of course is the chain does not get very dirty at all

If you do degrease the chain then the degreaser must be thoroughly cleaned off the chain before dunking it in the wax otherwise it dilutes the wax.

It really is easy. Take chain off bike. Put it in the tin. Heat until nice and runny, stir it a bit. take the tin off the heat. fish the chain out and hang it over the tin. when cool give it a wipe to get any remaining exess off thechain. refit to bike

No need at all to clean it or anything else.

With a brand new chain then yes the wax on the chain will mix with the putoline - but its a few grammes in a kilo. I don't treat a new chain - I run it until the manufacturers wax / gresae is gone.

I have been doing this for over a decade now I think. Each application is a bit of a messy faff but it needs doing so rarely that overall its a huge time saver

Freecycle / facebook marketplace for a fryer. You want the smallest one you can get, there's only a litre of putoline so you want one of those tiny 1l fryers.

I rarely bother cleaning the chain first. I might if it was actually caked in mud, but that's unusual.

If you do clean the chain, make sure it's free of moisture before it goes in the fryer, clean it in white spirit/paraffin or similar rather than a water / surfactant based degreaser like fenwicks/muckoff. If the chain full of water when it goes in the fryer you end up with a worktop covered in bubbling black wax when it boils.

My usual routine is to wash the bike after a ride with a hose and muckoff as normal to remove any muck from the surface, then take the chain off and wipe it with a rag to take any moisture off it before it goes in the fryer (if it needs it). I started off waiting until it was almost all gone before re-treating it but now I tend do it ad-hock when I've got time after a ride. With a Fryer in the shed it doesn't take long, chain comes off and goes in while I tidy up, check tyre pressures, adjust brake blocks or something. Then take it out, wipe with a rag, and leave it to cool on a rag.

It's worth getting some decent protective gloves, the wax and chain is ~150C and cools very slowly (it's not water, there's no evaporation). I get impatient and fit it back on the bike while it's still hot to handle and semi-liquid so it's ready for the next ride rather than leaving jobs for next time.

So are you sure the wax will stick to an oiled chain ? Ive not tired it myself, but it just seems unlikely. Im happy to be wrong.

We're not talking about the delicate dribbles of wax you get with dry lubes, it's a kilo of hot molten wax that you drop the chain into and agitate to get it to flow through all the links, rollers, pins etc. Once it's cooled then every cavity is filled with wax and all the parts coated. The liquid wax washes out any old oil and dirt from the chain.

I thought my old tin was getting a bit contaminated and thinned after 10 years, but the new one seems pretty much the same so it was probably fine.

With a brand new chain then yes the wax on the chain will mix with the putoline – but its a few grammes in a kilo. I don’t treat a new chain – I run it until the manufacturers wax / gresae is gone.

There's something, on the molten speed wax site i think, about this grease not being particularly good, but it's a good idea to leave it on for the first ride as it allows the moving parts of the chain to polish each other and reduce friction in future. A bit like 'running in oil' in a car engine for the first few hundred miles before swapping to fully synthetic.

Putoline curious here too. A few questions:

Are we talking mtb or road? How does it handle being covered in muck or dust?

How often do you need to reapply?

Putoline say stick the tin on the hob (like TJ). Why do most seem to use a fryer instead?

Apart from the length of time it lasts, is there any particular benefit over regular wet/dry lube?

it doesn't get covered in muck really - you get a layer of dust sticks to the outside then that is it. being a solid you do not get a fresh sticky surface to get covered in muck

Both road and offroad for me

Reapply - anything from a hundred or two miles winter offroad to a couple of thousand miles road

Main benefits? You allways have a well lubed chain. No build up of gunk much less chain wear, much cheaper

disadvantages - the wax itself is sticky black stuff and stains clothes. Its a smelly faff to apply, you need to take the chain off

thi9s is my bike after 3 or 4 mucky rides
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49338785312_4d0cbe6e8b_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49338785312_4d0cbe6e8b_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2iaUaWh ]IMG_1265[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/25846484@N04/ ]TandemJeremy[/url], on Flickr

I think TJ is incorrect on this on,

Seems unlikely, TJ has been doing his chains like this for years now, I'd have thought he'd know what he's doing.

Well it could be that the wax has mixed a bit with the oil that was not removed, thats just chemistry. So the wax would dilute a bit. Given you cant really see the tiny gap between the pin and the bit the pin sticks into, we are unlikly to see it not working as well as it could. Unless you measure these things scientifically in a controlled environment you wont know for sure. But some wax or some diluted wax is better than none.

I reckon hot wax would probably remove a lot of the original oil, perhaps not all of it, but a lot of it.

trimix - I actually dismantled a few links of an old treated chain to see - you could clearly see and feel wax on the pins and under the rollers.

AS I said - I run a new chain until it needs to be lubed then dunk it in the wax

I do respect scienceofficers views on this and all I know really is I do what it says on the tin and it works very well for me

Are we talking mtb or road? How does it handle being covered in muck or dust?

Both, crap doesn't stick to it, and it doesn't wash off.

How often do you need to reapply?

Variable, summer road bike - basically never

Summer MTB - maybe 400-500 miles

Winter MTB - generally 50-250 miles, I've eeked it out to 500+ on the singlespeed by leaving too much excess on and wiping with an oily rag to keep rust off.

Putoline say stick the tin on the hob (like TJ). Why do most seem to use a fryer instead?

Easier, you can do it in the shed and do something without having to watch it and worry about it. Chain goes in, leave for 15 minutes stirring occasionally whilst you do something else. No naked flames, no smell in the house etc.

Apart from the length of time it lasts, is there any particular benefit over regular wet/dry lube?

It stays reasonably clean, as in TJ's pic the drivechain gets coated in a thin layer of the graphite/wax and stays like that. It looks like that when new, and looks like that 500 miles later. Mud just rinses off.

Conventional lube might last a ride in good conditions, but say you do a 20 mile ride one winters evening in the rain, and the lube washes off by halfway (often that's optimistic if it's muddy!) then that's 10 miles without any protection, and it's that sort of riding that causes wear. With Putoline that almost never happens (maybe you'd get 3-4 similar rides out of it, and getting 4 weeks of wet weather is unusual). So as a result you get much much less wear.

For comparison I used to run drivechains into the ground (until they stopped shifting) as it worked out cheaper than replacing chains at 0.75%. Typically that meant 2000 miles or a years riding which meant I replaced it once things dried out after the winter. I've now got several bikes with 3000+ miles of all weather riding on the original chains (well over 0.75% but still shifting fine).

It will wash off if you go and do a really long ride in really bad conditions, but I'd reckon in those conditions where something else lasted 6 miles and putoline lasting 60.

I reckon hot wax would probably remove a lot of the original oil, perhaps not all of it, but a lot of it.

You're sloshing a chain with how much grease on it, 2-5g? in a pot of 1000g of wax. It's well and truly soaking in. That's the whole point of putoline, the process cleans the chain and the insides of all the rollers is filled with wax. The molten wax has the viscosity of something like diesel (thinner than engine oil, not as thin as petrol/water).

There is no oil/grease left afterwards, it's miscible in the wax. There's no (as you put it) :

you are just putting wax ontop. Or trying to get it to stick to dirt.

That just doesn't happen.

You could argue that 3g in 1000g is 0.3% oil, but that's tiny and probably less than the amount of residual crap left on a chain after conventionally degreasing it.

I'm happy to accept that it does what it says on the tin and am very curious to try it. I think dunking a new chain straight in is probably fine but personally I would clean an old chain before first application. The Aussie guy used a three stage cleaning proccess so you could see the degreaser getting cleaner at each stage and be sure by the end that you have got all the crap out. I wouldn't feel happy dunking an old dirty chain straight in there to contaminate the wax with whatever crap came out of it. It's going to stay in the wax and there is going to be the possibility that some of that grit gets carried into the links when you re-apply and stir it around. That's probably just me being a bit anal.

The grit is cleaned out of the chain not carried into it.

I see Lidl are selling rice cookers for £15. Come with removable inner pan (not mesh) so may well be a good option, though a mesh pan for drainage like in a chip pan is probably a better option.

The grit just sinks to the bottom of the tin (other advantage of a fryer is the chain sits in a basket above it).

As someone said on a previous thread, its so much better than anything else it's kinda hard to compare. The chain doesn't start off covered in a gunky grinding paste.

You can also soak gear/brake/dropper cables in it for really good shifting!

Are we talking mtb or road? How does it handle being covered in muck or dust?

Both for me, MTB, maybe 150-250 miles depending on conditions, Road 300-400 also condition and time of year dependant.

How often do you need to reapply?

see above, it is worth making sure I rinse and dry the drivetrain off before storing a bike if it's been a particularly wet/muddy ride but other wise minimal maintenance between applications is needed...

Putoline say stick the tin on the hob (like TJ). Why do most seem to use a fryer instead?

Controllable head sources innit, I currently use a camping stove and make sure the area is free of combustible stuff, when I get round to it I'd prefer a mini fryer (with a basket) as I can see how that would make the process both easier and safer.

Apart from the length of time it lasts, is there any particular benefit over regular wet/dry lube?

Melted waxes generally tend not to adhere to muck and particulates, "Wet lubes" (especially) do and then become a grinding paste rather than a 'lubricant'.
The important thing submerging a chain in a hot wax solution does, is let it penetrate right into the rollers (the bit that is actually under load in use) where it then sets solid, even if your dropper bottle/spray lube gets some oil/grease to that same location it is more easily displaced under load, as it is more viscous and/or soluble by water.
The wax is simply harder to break down and thus performs it's lubrication function for longer.

In answer to the OP:
The heat from the wax should be sufficient to melt the oil/grease from a brand new chain away, yes it will contaminate the wax to a certain extent but not so much that it won't work.

I'll admit to often giving a used chain a soak'n'shake in some petrol to try and remove some of the grime, as well as maybe using a new chain as it comes with the packing grease for hundred miles or so (ideally in dry conditions), but it doesn't really seem to make much difference TBH, you notice when a chain is getting bad, and you notice the improvement once you apply the wax lube...

disadvantages – the wax itself is sticky black stuff and stains clothes.

As in sticky and stains in use (like if you brush your leg against the chain), or sticky and stains when it's hot and runny when you're applying it?

As in sticky and stains in use (like if you brush your leg against the chain), or sticky and stains when it’s hot and runny when you’re applying it?

No worse than any other oil/grease. But you have a pan with a liter of hot wax that you're trying not to touch which inevitably means you end up holding chains at arms length and dripping it on the floor, so just like normal chain lube, don't apply it anywhere near the living room carpet!

In use it's a dry wax so it doesn't leave a chaining shaped mark on your calf when you lean against it like wet lube does. But I usually get a black smudge where my calf must brush against the chain.

Are we talking mtb or road? How does it handle being covered in muck or dust?

Not used it in dusty conditions but the mud just doesn't stick to the chain and doesn't work its way inside. This is the main reason to use it for me. I can ride the filthiest conditions with rivers running down trails, ploughing through mud, and I get home and the chain is silent - quieter than a freshly lubed chain with normal lube.

How often do you need to reapply?

In this terrible slop we've been having it's been about 5 or 6 rides on the MTB, so 8-10 hours. Probably 15 hours on road, also in filthy wet conditions.

Why do most seem to use a fryer instead?

Easier, I can do it in the garage so the house doesn't smell oily. No naked flames.

Apart from the length of time it lasts, is there any particular benefit over regular wet/dry lube?

Regular wet lube, in filthy conditions, lasts about 15 mins before the grinding starts. This doesn't happen with Putoline. It doesn't wash off, and it doesn't turn into a black gungy mess. So you're actually getting much more lubrication in all conditions, you don't have to clean it, and the tin lasts forever so it's cheap. It's basically better in every category.

For me application is about a 5 minute job, it's really easy. Of course applying normal lube is only a 30s job but de-greasing, cleaning and drying a chain the traditional way is actually much more time consuming than applying Putoline.

If you just re-apply normal lube then your chain gets filthy. If you think the normal lube is doing any good, try twisting a few links between your fingers. Hear that grinding sound?

As a DIY waxer, I can confirm that an oily chain is absolutely no barrier to successful waxing - the hot wax and the oil are miscible and get on just fine together.

As to the desire to remove the factory lube from inside: why would you? It’s doing its job. Wax will gradually replace it through repeated dunkings in hot wax.

I’ve only used it on the commuter, but don’t bother cleaning the chain before waxing - any dirt or grit just sinks to the bottom of the tin and the chain comes out beautifully clean again.

Cheapest deep fat fryer I can find at the moment; https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7173961

I use a small slow cooker in the garage. Takes longer to heat up then a fryer but works fine and was free. I use a giant paper clip and string over a nail in the rafter to haul it out to drain. Works fine.

Why would you degrease a new chain? It's got the best lubrication it will ever have when you take it out of the packet.

I just bought that Argos £15 frier and it works fine. With the basket, I just dunked the chain directly instead of cleaning it last time I re-waxed, on the assumption any detritus will fall to the bottom.

I'm still not convinced about Putoline for winter road use. The chain seems to get squeaky after a couple of not particularly wet rides.

I’m still not convinced about Putoline for winter road use. The chain seems to get squeaky after a couple of not particularly wet rides.

I think mine did probably 200 miles.

I diligently degreased the first few chains I Putolined, but I've stopped bothering now. Still works absolutely fine.

*Googles cheap fat fryer*

I’m still not convinced about Putoline for winter road use. The chain seems to get squeaky after a couple of not particularly wet rides.

I have had it go dry on the outside while still having plenty of wax in the pins and rollers - that can be a bit noisy - a wipe with an oily cloth helps. miniscule amounts tho or it takes the wax out of the inside of the chain

I did a 400 mile tour on the tandem half road half offroad with a fair amount of rain and the chain was still perfectly OK and on my commutter it lasted right thru the winter

and on my commutter it lasted right thru the winter

Isn't your commute a mile?

Mines twice that, I did it when the bike was new in June!

Although it does have a chain guard, but then lives outside.

simon - previous commute - 14 miles a day, 3 days a week. Chain treated twice a year so around a thousand miles each treatment- on salted roads. full mudguards tho which will help

As I said before, I found that Putoline worked very well over the summer, and was a good alternative to conventional lube. I'm not too impressed with winter performance so far. I reckon I've only done about 50 miles (road, full mudguards) since the last re-wax, and the drive train was a bit squeaky this morning. It's been a bit stormy, so there has been a bit of rain and surface water in that time, but nothing crazy. I want to try the wax through winter to give it a proper test, though.

the drive train was a bit squeaky this morning

It has a quirk because it's a wax it sets hard in the cold weather. My road bike sounds like a bag of spanners on a really cold morning until the wax breaks down a bit.

I reckon I’ve only done about 50 miles on the road since the last re-wax,.............. It’s been a bit stormy, so there has been a bit of rain and surface water in that time, but nothing crazy.

Compare it to how long conventional lube might have lasted though. As I got misquoted on the last thread about it, if it lasts >1 ride then the wear on your drive chain is going to be a fraction of what it would have been if it had lasted <1 ride (which almost invariably is the case in the wet).

I'm interested but a lot of people are comparing to "traditional" wet lubes, which I agree are awful.

What about a comparison to something like Squirt or Rock n Roll Extreme? I'm currently using these and really impressed with them in all conditions.

TBH I never got on with squirt, or UBS, on the road bike it would be dry and grumble <50 dry miles. What's the point of a lube that only lasts half an average ride in perfect conditions and has to be built up in layers over a period of days before you can ride, made putoline seem like simplicity!

The drivechain stayed clean though, which you'd expect seeing as there was nothing for the mud to mix with.

Not tried R&R extreme. the reviews sound good, but again, having to apply it the day before and let the solvent dry overnight sounds like a PITA. In a pinch you can put a hot putoline on (wear those big red work gloves) without any issues. Or just stick some wet lube on and putoline it when you get back (my usual option if the chain has orange flecks showing, although as TJ says there's probably still plenty of wax remaining inside the rollers and a wipe with light oil on a rag would do to keep corrosion off).

I just lube the chain after I clean the bike, stops it going rusty and means its ready to ride next time, no faff! IF I'm away and riding multiple wet days I'll wipe the chain with a rag to get the worst off and then re-lube, it'll dry in the van overnight ready for the next days ride. Not really any more faff than normal lube, just apply at a different time? And no black gunk build up all over the drivetrain, jockey wheels etc has to be a bonus!

“Cheapest deep fat fryer I can find at the moment; https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7173961”

That’s the one I’ve got. I put all the Putoline in there and then dunked three chains in for a few minutes once it was up to 190C.

I’m intending to rotate the chains to lengthen my cassette life, so I’ll only have to re-Putoline once all three are well used, which based on this first chain will be months!

Compare it to how long conventional lube might have lasted though.

In the conditions I cycled in, I expect conventional lube to last a lot longer.

I find this interesting - most of us using it report much improved life. a few do not. somewhere there is an answer to this

KCR - did you degrease the chain first? did yo get the wax really hot so its nice and runny? Have you tried twisting the chain? ( when you twist it you can feel if there is still wax in the rollers) Are yo mistaking it being dry n the outside for no lube in the inside? ( I doubt this one as yu said it was squeaking) I am just looking for a reason - not that I doubt you

I just do not get it and I was getting around a thousand road miles in winter before needing to retreat it but KCR gets less than 50 miles.

*scratches head*

Just wondering...but if Putoline is so good, why don't manufacturers use it on new chains? Too much hassle during production??

another obvious question but how do you get the Putoline into the dff to start with, did you melt in the tin and pour (I don't like the idea of carrying tins of 170+ wax about) or just cut and scrape it out of the tin into the dff?

What about a comparison to something like Squirt or Rock n Roll Extreme? I’m currently using these and really impressed with them in all conditions.

I used a whole bottle or RnR Extreme - I thought it worked OK, but it had a tendency to dribble everywhere when applying it. Lasted a dirty MTB ride just about. Needed applying after every MTB ride. Could be tempted to use it again.

Bought a bottle of Squirt based on the hype on here - absolutely useless. I was told I was doing it wrong, and that I needed to apply it more lovingly, and to start with a brand new, de-greased chain, or that I needed to put several layers on, all of which i did. Still bloody useless. The chain was rusty before I even got it out of the shed, and graunching before I got to the end of the road. I'll leave the remains of the bottle outside my gate if anyone wants it.

Muc-off wet (pink bottle)- effective, but absolutely filthy & built up crud like nothing else. May as well use heavy oil.

Bike Hut chain lube - ok, cheap but a but messy (as muc-off wet)

Muc-off dry (yellow bottle) - Easy to apply, but not very good. OK in the dry, but wouldn't last a full MTB ride if there was any sort of water around.

Muc-off dry ceramic (green bottle) - easy to apply (can be applied to a wet chain and it will stop it rusting). Lasts adequately - not usually a problem on an MTB ride. I hose the chain off with water after a ride, directing the water onto the chain while I turn the pedals backwards which cleans the chain up. Let it dry (or shake most of the water off if in a rush) and apply one drop per roller. Whizz the pedals around a couple of times and put bike in shed. Never have to remove, clean or de-grease the chain and they last ~800 miles on the MTB.

Haven't tried wax on my MTB, but have been using it on my Diverge which is my weekday commuter / weekend gravel bike since mid 2017.

It's a homebrew mixture which I guess is similar to Putoline. (From the comments above it may be a little softer than Putoline - I've never had it flake off the outside of the links.)

I was keeping a log of when I'd waxed it, but it sort of fizzled out, but for interest, this is what I got.

Original chain (KMC, but unknown spec), various lubes above lasted 1271 miles / 132 days

KMC X10 wax first applied at 1972 miles / 254 days old lasted to 2633 miles / 371 days old

KMC X10 waxed from new 20/10/17.
Next waxed 18/11/17 661 miles later.
Next waxed 26/11/17 92 miles later (culminating in a 67 mile very wet, gritty gravel loop of Sarn Helen and Trawsfynydd)

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49386648996_5aab625f04_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49386648996_5aab625f04_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2if8u9d ]DSC06493[1][/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/40141861@N00/ ]tillydog[/url], on Flickr

Next waxed 11/2/18 198 miles later
Then things peter out a bit for various reasons I was riding less and the next entry I have is 24/3/19 at 634 miles later, but I'm not certain I haven't missed one.
Wasn't waxed again until I changed it 240 miles later. It had only done ~1400 miles at this point, but I was having shifting issues, so changed it. Turned out to be a frayed shifter cable.

I find the waxing thing very low hassle, and it suits me for my gravel/road bike that just needs to work every day when you get it out of the shed without having to faff with it too regularly.

YMMV (literally)

I’m intending to rotate the chains to lengthen my cassette life

All my chains rotate

It has a quirk because it’s a wax it sets hard in the cold weather. My road bike sounds like a bag of spanners on a really cold morning until the wax breaks down a bit.

As a bold an adventurous sort, you could try tweaking the mix to avoid this - adding beeswax (10% or so) will make it softer and more adhesive, and/or adding some EP gear oil (a few %??) will stop it setting solid and provide some corrosion protection if it does flake off.

My mix contains both of these and seems OK (no bag of spanners), but I rarely go out on it at/below freezing.

Just a note to the putoline users. The data sheet says melting point 68°C and flash point 200°C.
heating it to 190°C is pretty close to it catching fire...

not strictly true, you still need an ignition source (which is why doing it on a gas hob might not be a wise idea) but if MP is genuinely 68C it does make me query why it needs to go to 170C in a dff.

I get the viscosity will reduce as T increases, and so penetration is better but 170 or 190 is a heck of a load more than 68

[edit] it doesn't say the MP is 68C, it says >68C. That could be way more......

API.KROON-OIL.COM "https://api.kroon-oil.com/pdf/en/safetysheet/SDS-PO1002-chain-wax-EN.pdf"

Plus, it goes incredibly thin at any real temperature- you want it to be barely liquid.

adding beeswax (10% or so) will make it softer and more adhesive

I dunno, it's incredibly sticky already. It's not really wax as such, not like candle wax anyway. More like boot polish but sticky.

Good point re the flashpoint - didn't read the data sheet. I'll turn the fryer down.

Plus, it goes incredibly thin at any real temperature- you want it to be barely liquid.

Why?

you want it to be barely liquid

Personally, I don't. I want it to be really runny. I heat mine(*) until it's a similar viscosity to full fat milk (say). This is >>60°C but probably <100°C. Certainly nowhere near 190°C.

(*) Not real Putoline, but very similar.

I dunno, it’s incredibly sticky already. It’s not really wax as such, not like candle wax anyway. More like boot polish but sticky.

I'll bet it already has a proportion of beeswax (or synthetic equivalent in it already) - I was suggesting adding a bit more as an experiment to make it *softer* so it didn't set hard on cold days.

I have one of those portable hobs which I used to use to heat up the tin, but I've gone down the DFF route now, much less hassle, and quicker to reach MP. Have also been wondering about temperature. I've felt cautious about going around 180 with it, but have anyway. Could that temp be detrimental to it? Burn it?

I do prefer the higher temps - it means more drips off the sides of the chain so less to wipe down after - and the chain is definitely well lubed internally because it's always silent after a Putoline dip.

I tend to leave my chains in there for a good 20 minutes also, usually because there's other bike maintenance jobs to do at the same time.

DFF reserved at Argos, putoline will be in my Amazon locker on Friday. I'm either converted, and my chain lubing life will never be the same again, or there'll be a starter kit on the classifieds in a month or so.

Or my garage will have burnt down.

Its only noisy/stiff initially, like a hundred meters or so, long enough for the chain to go round the jockey wheels a few times. You notice it most when setting off on cold mornings because the chains solid and wont back pedal!

>68 sounds about right, its definitley liquid at 110. It smokes if it gets hot, usually if its melting so theres no convection and the bit on the bottom is starting to burn.

Cant figure out what'shappening to KCR's chains. I looked at my CX bike last night which has done at least 4 muddy rides since its last coating, and washed with muck off after each ride, there's the odd orange spot, but still plenty of wax. And by road standards that bike only sees horrendous conditions. My road bike would be about the same time, so probably 250 miles or so of winter riding and washing every few rides, but no rain. No signs of it losing any wax yet.

I presume people keep the putoline in the deep fat fryer once finished with? Seems an obvious thing to me but just checking, what’s the point in storing it in the tin once it’s been in the fryer?

I presume people keep the putoline in the deep fat fryer once finished with? Seems an obvious thing to me but just checking, what’s the point in storing it in the tin once it’s been in the fryer?

Yup, there is no way you will ever be able to use the fryer for anything else ever again!

And in response to someone up there's question, I scooped it out with a spoon, but pouring would be easier if you have a camp stove (I'd run out of meths).

Anyone used this 1.2l one from Asda, big enough? Tempted to go for it as well and as per someone else if it works as I hope would like to do the whole families bikes

https://direct.asda.com/george/home/cooking-appliances/grey-compact-fryer-12l/050709893,default,pd.html?cmpid=ppc-_-george-_-ggle-pla-_-OD16HOME_GARDEN-_--_-dskwid-s92700050877047242_dm&gclsrc=aw.ds&ds_rl=1238816&ds_rl=1254577&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjfvwBRCkARIsAIqSWlOubvRBODCgDwlKTG1TQrwGf1-3Ny7uUNRg-1lshagF72v__9p3UhUaApIOEALw_wcB

1.2l sounds about right, you don't want any bigger as there's only about 1l of putoline. As small as possible is best but I doubt anyone makes one smaller!

Ta, less valuable worktop space it takes up the better. Might fare better than a white one in terms of grubbiness too

I'm tempted to try this but I want my drivetrain to wear out so I can convert to 1x and fit a dropper!

Do you have to be careful what you use to clean the cassette with in case it contaminates/strips the wax from the chain?

Do you have to be careful what you use to clean the cassette with in case it contaminates/strips the wax from the chain?

It doesn't get gummed up, see TJ's pic, that's about as bad as it gets really. And what you can see is the wax/graphite. I just wash the bike as normal (hose, muck-off, hose, bucket of water+shampoo and a sponge, hose). I just hose it to flush out any grass, twigs etc that have got caught in there.

Cheers for the info- looks like I'll have to ride more and clean my drivetrain less to hasten it's demise! Though 27.2 dropper posts with a decent drop look scarce.

molgrips

Subscriber

Why?

Cos if it's really thin, more runs out when you remove the chain from the wax. You can feel the difference between chains treated both ways as soon as they've solidified- the hotter the wax, the looser the chain, meaning that less wax has stayed where it needs to be inside the links.

Fryer arrived, wax decanted and heated to 120, chain dipped.

What's the optimum temp and time?

A few points.

I think that capillary action will mean that wax is retained inside the chain rather than flowing out.
It is certainly true that a lower temperature (wax or ambient) means more wax is just on the outside of the chain.

I think that the small amounts of grease or oil are irrelevant to the wax mix. Indeed, homebrew waxers often add some oil or grease to the mix. I suspect that homeopathic amounts of detergent are irrelevant to wax too.

I am not convinced that waxing dirty chains is sensible. Whilst larger heavy particles will fall to the bottom quickly, the smallest ones can stay in suspension for a long time. In fact this is used as a way of separating particles by size. Since most wax mixes contain solid lubricants like graphite, mos2 or PTFE such we want keep in suspension there is a risk that we also have very fine grit suspended. I use plain hot water or hot detergent rinses followed by plain water to remove grit.

What don't you try it at 120, then at 170 and see if you notice any difference?

What’s the optimum temp and time?

Temp ~140 seems to work for me. Time, I did find longer works better for some reason, dunno if the chain takes longer to warm up than maybe would be expected. I tend to drop it in the basket, leave it for a bit, give it a shake, leave it for a bit, give it a shake, etc for 10-15 minutes while I do something else. I wipe of any excess from the outside with some old rag (wear thick work gloves and hold the chain with a bent spoke).

Do you have to be careful what you use to clean the cassette with in case it contaminates/strips the wax from the chain?

Well you don't need to clean the cassette every time, but I just use degreaser on the cassette and rings when I'm cooking the chain. It's really not necessary, just cosmetic.

Loads of interesting stuff here, thanks to all the contributors. Almost at the buy and try point.

What quick links are people (re)using? If it's going on my road bike I'm a bit nervous about resuing on in case it goes pop in a sprint, or a baby robin dies. Or am I being overly nervous?

alexnharvey

Member

I think that capillary action will mean that wax is retained inside the chain rather than flowing out.
It is certainly true that a lower temperature (wax or ambient) means more wax is just on the outside of the chain.

Nah, like I say you can feel the difference once it's set- that's not wax on the outside, it's wax on the rollers.

I think you are being over cautious. The strain that the quiklink is under during pedalling, etc, on practically every revolution are way more than the effort of opening one up.

If you opened one hundreds or thousands of times I guess conceivably the lip on them could wear so they became loose and possibly pop open, even then I'd be surprised as it's kept either under tension on the top run by pedalling forces, or on the bottom by the derailleur but there could be moments of chain slap for example where it's essentially slack.

What quick links are people (re)using? If it’s going on my road bike I’m a bit nervous about resuing on in case it goes pop in a sprint, or a baby robin dies. Or am I being overly nervous?

Overly nervous I think. I can't see how opening a quick link makes it more likely to break. It does make it a bit looser, so it's easier to undo after a few goes - but it's hardly likely to undo itself during a ride IMO.

I have decanted a small amount of the Putolibe wax into a smaller tin, found a suitable biscuit tin just over the diameter of a coiled chain, use a camping stove & get the job done in a fraction of the time taken to heat the whole original tin.

I have decanted a small amount of the Putoline wax into a smaller tin, found a suitable biscuit tin just over the diameter of a coiled chain, use a camping stove & get the job done in a fraction of the time taken to heat the whole original tin.

Good plan.

I bought a tin a few years ago on the strength of threads on here. I've not opened it yet, partly due some of the "tried it - not sure" comments, partly because it's a lot cleaner and a lot less faff if I just leave it sealed. Not quite ready to open Pandora's tin of Putoline!

I think I'm waiting for the bottle of Finish line wet to run out. I've got about half left. Could take a while.