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It’s an interesting watch, seems like an attempt to give his side of the story, but he still comes across as an arrogant bullying ****!
There's a reason he's comes across as an arrogant bullying ****. He's an arrogant bullying ****.
Watched it. Excellent. He is an arrogant bullying shit. Thoroughly unpleasant character. He’s not trying to deny it or apologise for it. Kind of respect the fact he’s not really repentant or sorry and recognises if he had his time again he’d probably make the same decisions. Better than a bunch of fake apologies to pander to the authorities in the hope he would get his wrists slapped and take a couple of years ban or much more lenient punishment.
Also enjoyed the documentary on iPlayer about G. Polar opposite to Lance.
Sorry, who is G?
Gariant Thomas
Quite compelling. He really does come across as a vile sociopathic narcissist, with no regard whatsoever for the people he’s ****ed over all his life. His apologies are so utterly forced and yet there’s that spark of hateful reality when he talks about Floyd (Landis). There’s the real Lance, and yet there seemed to be real compassion for Jan (Ulrich)! Maybe Jan owed him some money?
Even if cycling had been clean I'm sure we'd still be hearing unpleasant Armstrong stories. The way he (and his mother) treated their tri coach in the early years was shocking - even paying for meals of the group abusing him on a night out didn't come from a good place, more to get one over. In some ways I've got to respect him for just being who is rather than trying to cover it up though.
A riveting watch, unlike the David Millar Time Trial film (also iPlayer) which would have been better if they'd edited out all the dream-like cycling sequences, although they would have had trouble stretching the rest to 10 minutes.
LA is a 1st class merchant banker - I can’t stand the man.
A riveting watch, unlike the David Millar Time Trial film (also iPlayer) which would have been better if they’d edited out all the dream-like cycling sequences, although they would have had trouble stretching the rest to 10 minutes.
I really enjoyed the dream sequences - many a day I’ve had rides that have felt just like that. I thought it was excellent.
Different strokes!
Sad thing is the majority of riders around that era were probably doing a lot worse and whilst I'm sure it's still going on it must of been a wake up call and I get extremely suspicious at the sudden drop in some riders performances after they look like they can take on the world .do they win what they want and then panic .
Hes an extremely odd bloke. Seems to have zero remorse for what he did. Although im 100% sure a lot of others in that era did the same too for me its more about how he acted that makes it worse.
Thanks for the PSA OP.
Fascinating TV.
Almost (almost) warmed to him when he said he’d been to see Jan Ulrich and he teared up. That seemed genuine. But he jumped back to Lance-mode within a few seconds and normal service was resumed.
I laughed when he got his son’s shirt number wrong when doing that speech to the ‘football’ team. His poor kids.
I also chortled when I saw him grating the cheese. I’d seen the bandage so guessed what was coming. Obviously only grates cheese when the TV cameras are in the house. Suspect he’s made lots of hysterical calls to doctors before though...
Great doc.
Also enjoyed the documentary on iPlayer about G. Polar opposite to Lance.
I watched that last week and as much as I like G, I thought it was one of the most boring and disengaging documentaries I’ve ever seen.
I've just watched both episodes. I admire his hunger and will to win. I don't think he'd have achieved what he achieved without being the personality he is. I do think it's a bit perverse that the general public expect people who achieve such extreme feats to be nice, normal and well balanced. It seems that it's the betrayal of the narrative of a heroic survivor that is unforgivable to many, though, if the programme is accurate, this wasn't something that he deliberately courted. He was really nasty to many, but did great good through the charity foundation. He's true to himself and I admire that. Given what is now known about
doping over many years, I do think he's been treated differently to others. Many winners of the TDF have their victories stand despite doping, and many others were taking EPO at the same time. His aggressive defence of his reputation and very public dishonesty over a number of years probably meant that the authorities felt that they had little choice but to take firm action.
Didn't say whether he'd made good the damages against his physio (Emma?). As in, financially given he likely wrecked her professional reputation. Someone else, too, I forget. Apologies are one thing, repaying their missed life earnings is another.
Didn’t say whether he’d made good the damages against his physio (Emma?). As in, financially given he likely wrecked her professional reputation. Someone else, too, I forget. Apologies are one thing, repaying their missed life earnings is another.
My guess is anyone involved in this has made a fortune from selling their part of the story.
Paradiso
He was really nasty to many, but did great good through the charity foundation.
The extent to which his charity was doing good for cancer sufferers as opposed to doing good for Lance is debatable, plenty of allegations about some questionable behaviour. And Livestrong was always about cancer "awareness" and lifting the stigma of cancer, mot really about helping sufferers in terms of healthcare/finance.
jimmy
Didn’t say whether he’d made good the damages against his physio (Emma?). As in, financially given he likely wrecked her professional reputation
He wrote the foreword to her book - they seems to have buried the hatchet to some extent, and she talked about the legal stuff being at an end, not sure if that included a financial settlement.
I’ve just watched both episodes. I admire his hunger and will to win. I don’t think he’d have achieved what he achieved without being the personality he is.
Yep, probably why he won, he just wanted it so bad and nothing would stand in his way (plus a shit load of good genes, talent, training volume and EPO).
He didn't win, he was stripped of those hollow victories.
Livestrong did nothing other than provide Lance to whitewash his personality, I'm pretty sure I was aware of cancer before I wore a yellow wristband.
He is a dick and needs to be starved of publicity, why he is still given a platform is beyond me.
I was sucked into the bullshit, luckily I read David Walsh's earlier books so started to have serious doubts long before it all blew up. May be if he'd not gone back after retiring we'd still be talking about a tainted legacy but thanks to his ego he was exposed as the fraud he is.
I know he's not the first and won't be the last, but not sure why he gets a pass by some folks.
Sorry for the rant, but he killed road cycling for me, so I've not got the best perspective on him. EPO ****er:-) (rhymes with banker).
My Mrs watched it with me and she really knew nothing about him and what he'd done, and by the end she was glued to it and couldn't believe how much of a sociopath he is
Sorry for the rant, but he killed road cycling for me
I thought they were some of the best TdFs I watched. Loved the US Postal team dominating stages.
I think they were harsh to ban him for life, would have liked to see a comeback.
I think the bits with his son were great… he clearly fully understands what his father is, and deals with it, rather than tries to pretend otherwise. Very easy to warm to him, unlike his sociopathic father.
His son did come across as very impressive balanced man.
Lance won them all - they all cheated.
There was a stat that every top ten rider in the years Lance won has been caught cheating, fully admitted cheating or been accused of cheating in the main cycling press and not defended their name..... apart from one. A Spanish rider who came third. And when asked how he felt about Lance (1st) and Jan (2nd) both admitting cheating and taking a Tour win from him his response was - Lance won Ullrich was second and I was third - period.
I've just watched this.
I was taken in hook, line and sinker when US Postal were dominating the Tour and was convinced that there was no way that Lance was doping as his whole empire would come crashing down around him if he was and he got caught. It made for some great TV at the time.
The shouty magazine editor chap in this documentary summed it up for me when he said that there we good people doing bad things and bad people doing good things and it got to the point where he couldn't tell the difference anymore.
I thought Floyd Landis came across very well and it was interesting / sad to see what's been going on in Jan Ulrich's life.
It was a crazy era in pro cycling.
I was taken in hook, line and sinker when US Postal were dominating the Tour and was convinced that there was no way that Lance was doping as his whole empire would come crashing down around him if he was and he got caught. It made for some great TV at the time.
Yep, great era.
Watched part 2 last night - wow he's still bitter about Floyd Llandis!
Bit late to the party, but managed to finish watching this last night. Great documentary and a good to look back at the era. Which if I'm honest was one of the most exciting eras and the only one that grabbed me as a spectator to road cycling.
He's obviously a grade A cock, manipulative and really holds a grudge(!) but I'm still torn as to whether his victories where hollow. It's pretty clear looking back that the whole of professional cycling at the time was doping on a massive scale so if he was the best of a whole peleton of dopers there's a good chance he'd have been the best even without the drugs.
Armstrong had the physique and will to win to be a dominant all rounder but allowing for PEDs as a norm introduces too many variables like who had the best pharmacist, for any one to know if he was the best of the peloton
I only caught a bit of this when it was shown on freeview on Sunday but will have to watch it all
It was striking how arrogant and unrepentant he came across as at the same time he seemed to be fully aware of how pernicious he had been. What was it he said when he reminisced over unfairly calling Emma a 'whore'? Can't remember but he was pretty candid
Not really muffin man, he was just in a team with ready access to money, doctors and was a good responder to the drugs.
His victories are absolutely hollow. But as mentioned, he wasn’t the only one, still doesn’t mean he would have won half as much clean.
The UCI didn't award the TDF wins to anyone else which says something in it's self
Watched both episodes, really glad I did, before I just sort of went along with the crowd a little bit, "yeah, it wasn't that he cheated but that he was a d1ck about it" sort of thing, but now I think I've seen the bigger picture I'm more sympathetic towards him.
He was a cheat, in an era of cheaters, the difference being that celebrity caught up with him and he was suddenly at the epicentre of a huge 'industry' (for want of a better word) and probably felt immense pressure to double down on the lies etc.
Did he benefit from being at the centre of that industy? I don't doubt it. Did he feel pressure because of factors other than his own wealth (e.g. the number of people looking up to him, number of people employed by Lance inc., relations with sponsors etc.)? Yes he probably did. Did this pressure contribute towards him lashing out and acting like a d1ck? Probably, but I can also accept he was maybe just a bit of an arse to begin with.
I have no time for writing people off completely because they cheated, there's too many shades of grey and I think the problem is too endemic and too widespread to hold individuals entirely accountable for it.
The UCI didn’t award the TDF wins to anyone else which says something in it’s self
100%. All other podium placers in his 7 tdf wins were implicated in drug taking apart from one.
there’s too many shades of grey and I think the problem is too endemic and too widespread to hold individuals entirely accountable for it.
Absolutely. Really great documentary by the way. I might watch it again.
Watched it, having read the Tyler Hamilton book so knew what to expect.
But the total lack of remorse is astonishing
He doesn't care now, would do it all again except maybe retire and not come back ans get busted and be millions better off
Nasty guy, but if everyone is doing it, and you know they are only beating you because they are doing it and you are not then if your mentality is win at all costs..
A few years ago, Lance went out at Christmas for a few drinks. He got drunk, crashed his large SUV into a parked car, then proceeded to swap seats with his girlfriend, in an attempt to get her to take the blame.
I don't really care if someone cheated in a bicycle race, but one thing is clear, Lance Armstrong is a complete and utter ****. If you wish to defend him, try and defend him for being a drink driver who tries to frame his Mrs.
This. Lance's charming personality means that I'd quite enjoy the spectacle of him being stripped of a load of TdF titles, even if it was totally unfair. Which it isn't.
Yeah, everyone else was doping - or at least there was a paranoia throughout the peleton at the time that everyone was - so most then did. BUT most riders found their own way to their doctors/suppliers etc and some got busted etc. what LA and Bruyneel did was a whole different league to that. Bullying teammates to dope, threatening the Andreu's, Emma O'Reilly etc and employing a business-like doping programme (moto man etc) was a step above and he was front and centre in that.
He comes over as a complete sociopath - he believes the only mistake he made was to get ratted up by Floyd Landis. And he is really bitter than people think he is wrong.
However - I would imagine many people at the top of their sport are similar.
And in the TdF everyone was doping. They probably still are - which is a shame
Here's a bit of an odd request. Does anyone have a Livestrong bracelet (preferably new) they want to pass on? I've looked online but just seeing options to pay around a tenner without any sign of the money going to charity and although I can buy one form the Livestrong website for $1 they want $167 shipping. I've just started chemo and the odds are looking very good for a favourable outcome, but for some weird reason I'm fascinated by the Lance story and obviously the cancer angle is something that is now relevant to me. I've read a few books and seen most of the documentaries so well aware of his narcissism and his shocking treatment of Betsy Andreu, Emma O'Reilly, David Walsh, Greg LeMond, Simeoni et al.
Happy to chuck a tenner in to a cancer charity if one gets sent through.
Best wishes for the chemo. Kick its arse!
The line that Armstrong wasn’t that bad and would have won anyway because everyone was at it is a fallacy.
Armstrong and the blind eyes at the UCI brought the world of road cycling into the gutter. We’re not talking individuals like the Pirate or Tom Simpson here. We’re not even talking Festina levels of organisation. We’re talking about a man who was ruthless, rotten, and who broke the world of cycling through a systematic abuse of others.